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-   -   Modern Racism: Officer Wilson Walks (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=339221)

Nyro November 26th, 2014 6:57 AM

Lisa Bloom is a leech and the most rediculous attention seeking idiot on the face of this earth. Have you read any of her stuff?

Where did you read no signs of struggle and hands up surrendering? From the Browns Autopsy guy? The Federal Autopsy guy said he was shot 2inch to a foot from the barrel of the gun according to KMOV the St.Louis news station. If you have that article I would like to read it though. Pretty much all i have heard that agrees with you is word of mouth and protestors but I have seen no official statements validating those claims.

Nah November 26th, 2014 7:04 AM

Well, so much for hoping that this thread would turn out any differently than the million other threads related to racism on the internet.....

ShinyUmbreon189 November 26th, 2014 7:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariah Carey (Post 8509972)
was that you marching with the kkk in the bright yellow belt earlier?

You obviously can't comprehend what I was saying so you're assuming I'm racist and did a KKK march? gtfo. READ THE FIRST PARAGRAPH AGAIN, better yet, read the whole post. Here it is to make it easier for yourself and I even bolded important parts.

Quote:

What you expect me to think when I see over half of the black people in my area (burbs of Chicago) doing gang handshakes, claimin colors hard, acting a damn fool and being ignorant, speaking their own language and using the n word every 3 words (english but it's impossible to understand them), and intentionally doing something to get the police involved or get them arrested? A majority of the black people in my area are THUGS, they come from the straight hood of south side Chicago. I can't even stress the amount of gangster disciples we have here, Gd's are a majority of the thugs in my area. Since a majority come from a specific folk set you don't witness a lot of gang affiliated crime involving other sets. You do, but not very often.

I came from a town near St. Louis where they had few thugs but they had black people. I didn't get that impression of them because I didn't have a reason to. But when I see a majority of the black people in my area now I'm forced to have that impression on them, or at least the ones in my area. If they don't wanna be perceived as a thug then don't act like one, act like a normal human being. If other blacks can do it they can.

A majority of the blacks in my area act like thugs and are thugs so I perceive them as thugs. I never said "all black people are thugs", I said "a majority of the blacks in my current area". Visit my area and see for yourself. They live here only temporarily, they still live in the ghetto of south Chicago where 90+% of them are thugs! Sorry, it's the facts. If you can't accept it then it's not my problem. If you don't believe me, go to south Chicago, but I'm not making any guarantee's you'll make it out alive regardless of your race. It's a scary area, the WARZONE of Chicago. Remember the 80+ people gunned down during the 4th of July weekend in Chicago this year? Where you think this took place? SOUTH CHICAGO! South Chicago is the reason Chicago is nicknamed "Chiraq". It's filled with nothing but gang bangers/thugs that commit felony's everyday, there's nothing but gunshots heard everyday, another body in the obituary, and countless assaults and home invasions everyday. With that being said, don't jump to assumptions. Besides, I'm not racist nor would I even consider joining the KKK. I look at the KKK as scum of this earth.

I also find it very hard to believe you're white too. Because you're trying awfully hard to back up the black thugs.

Nyro November 26th, 2014 7:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keiran (Post 8509968)
Black power is about standing up for oneself and their race. Overcoming hardship and oppression. White power is about maintaining that power over other races.

Also, 2 people allegedly getting arrested for unrelated charges, even if true, is not synonymous with a hate group having influence on a legal system.

Anyways, y'all are free to read the jury transcript here. If, after reading this, you still support Darren Wilson and can't realize this is about race & racist/corrupt legal systems then...I honestly don't know what to tell you. He wasn't even cross examined.

I'd also like to point out that those New Black Panther members allegedly getting arrested for planning to harm people whilst a group of KKK members HANDS OUT FLYERS AND ANNOUNCED ON LIVE TV that they're going to shoot/harm protesters and they aren't arrested is an example of white privilege.

Actually reading these testimonies and they are very interesting but I think they got it right sorry. I will read more and update this if I feel differently but so far the witnesses point to them getting this one right. However I do feel the witnesses have genuine distrust for cops that is apparent. I guess you can consider that a "race issue" if we are assuming all the cops are white. Hopefully that is not the case. Which witness did you think pointed the other way? I have a read a few that tried but the testimonies were kinda shaky and seemed a little unbelieveable.

EDIT: 64 #2 was really odd. They couldn't get their story straight with the previous day. There were actually a few like that but that one stuck out BIG TIME.

Lizardo November 26th, 2014 8:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbjerr
Unless there is any hard evidence that Wilson targeted Brown because of his race, there is no need to make this a race issue.

It was always going to be a race issue, because the unfortunate fact of the matter is that we live in a country where police are historically notorious for harassing black people. The actions of the police in the outbreak of the protests and their strong-arm tactics against many of the protestors do not help their image, regardless of what really happened between Michael Brown and Darren Wilson. Whatever the facts are in this case, it’s natural for the death of an unarmed black teenage by the hand of a white police officer to raise eyebrows. And whites have no one to blame but themselves. They created the society where this has been, and very much still is, an issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189
If you are black, I feel sorry for you because those few black looters make the black race as a whole look bad.

I’m a black man and, please, don’t feel sorry for me. The oppression against dark-skinned people all over the world for centuries, that exists to this day, makes the white race look even worse. So does trying to pretend it’s all over now.

Quote:

They feel they're the victim when they're not, they can't get over something that happened over a century ago.
What exactly do you mean by a century ago? Slavery ended over a century ago, but the Jim Crow era lasted well into the 20th Century, the Civil Rights Movement is still within living memory of many people today, and racism still exists today - especially within the American Criminal Justice system. Blacks will “get over it” when it no longer exists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daigonite
And that because of actions completely out of his control, this somehow invalidates his arguments. Seriously, screw that MLK, he had no idea what he was talking about! He got assassinated! That sure shows how much he's worth!

Since we’re bringing up Martin Luther King, Jr. here’s a quote of his that’s especially relevant in this thread: “I contend that the cry of "black power" is, at bottom, a reaction to the reluctance of white power to make the kind of changes necessary to make justice a reality for the Negro. I think that we've got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard.”

I think it would do a lot of people well to remember what MLK actually said and did if we’re going to bring him up here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa
"It's a race issue because the KKK was involved!" Pretty sure the Black Panthers were also involved, another racist hate group.

The KKK was the racist hate group, and from early on in its inception had dedicated itself to using violence to deny newly freed slaves the ability to use the political power they had won as a result of the Civil War. The Black Panthers adopted a militant stance, but its aim was to empower the black community not to destroy or re-enslave the white one. There’s a difference between the two.

Quote:

Racism does indeed exist EVERYWHERE, and it affects EVERY RACE, or do you think whites have never been discriminated against?
The difference here being that whites have historically been in control of this country, and have never been subjected to the kind of institutionalized racism that minorities (especially blacks) have. People need to realize this. It is not the same thing, it has never been the same thing.

Police can harass anyone, this is true. But blacks living in impoverished areas have been more likely to abuse from law enforcement than middle/upper-class whites. I’ve never met a white person who was ever afraid of the police, the way many even law-abiding blacks are. I would urge people to look into the history of race relations in America, and look into how the Criminal Justice system affects minorities before trying to pass judgement against an entire race. Because a lot of these posts do exactly that, and it says something very depressing about some of the people who post here.

Like anyone else, I don’t know exactly what happened in the Michael Brown-Darren Wilson case. I listened to the same news stories you did, weighed the factors like anyone else, and came to my own conclusion that Wilson at least deserved to be indicted. It doesn’t matter now, but trying to look into the black perspective on these things would do a lot more good than simply condemning them while pretending that racism no longer exists and that it’s all the blacks’ fault. It’s not that simple, and people need to realize that.

Corvus of the Black Night November 26th, 2014 9:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mariah Carey (Post 8509972)
was that you marching with the kkk in the bright yellow belt earlier?

Can you try to not be a complete insufferable ******* in this thread? You've done barely anything but attack other people. Seriously, we get it, you don't agree with the fact that some people want to question the traditional racist narrative. Perhaps there's something much deeper than that. Instead of automatically writing them off as racists because they don't agree with you, maybe you should take three seconds to actually understand what their argument is. Maybe they have an interesting point. Maybe they have something to ponder. Hell, maybe they're playing Devil's Advocate and are trying to make you think about what you say.

Then again, you are the same person who summarized MLK's works as "pull their pants up" so I guess that might be too much to ask for.

Regardless.

For example, earlier, the Black Panthers were brought up. You might as well call these guys the yang to the KKK's yin. Don't you think that both groups perhaps are problematic and that they both contribute to the furthering the misery that perpetuates this black versus white trope.

I heard from someone on facebook who asked me, "you people who say that we shouldn't see colour, you're all saying that because you're ignoring the problem that's existed for 500 years". And it just makes me ask, if this black versus white trope is the problem that we have been dealing with for 500 years, don't you think that doing the exact opposite is the only thing that is going to stop perpetuating this problem? There's a common saying - that if you're going to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result, then that's the definition of insanty - but the truth is that by perpetuating that because it's the status quo that alternatives that seek to remove that should be ignored shows that people truly aren't ready to let go of those views just yet, on both sides.

And you know what?

Mind you, this is someone who really doesn't know how to feel about this whole thing other than the whole thing is a tragedy. I've already had people telling me to kill myself and how horrible and racist I am because I frankly have a lot bigger problems on my plate. Again, to me, I treat everyone with respect, and I try to help those who don't get it, but I can't throw myself out there when I'm already dealing with my own challenges with suicide and self harm. Problems so screwed up that I can't run away anymore. I'm not looking for sympathy, but it helps raise an important issue - the fact that people are so ****ing froth filled with rage while ignoring everything else that could possibly be happening in their world just shows how close minded they really are, and how desperately they cling to their presumed "open mindedness" in order to perpetuate their own self worth. Yeah, I don't think that my problems overshadow what's going on in Ferguson right now, but maybe my problems are making me unable to make a decision on how I feel about it. Maybe other people's problems affect how other people feel about it. Maybe the reason why people are saying the things that they are saying is because they have encountered things in their lives that have shown them to think otherwise, outside of the stereotypical "POOR BLACK PEOPLE" narrative.

If you have an opinion, that's fine. But you know what. People have opinions based on their history. Instead of going around and being a complete chucknugget, try actually trying to understand where the opposition is coming from. I have already come to agree to disagree with some people in this thread. Just because they don't agree with you doesn't mean that they secretly hate black people, or that they believe that the kid should have died, or that there isn't a problem. It means that they disagreed with you with how people are handling it. Perhaps you should show the same level of maturity.

Maybe this rage that people are doing in response to the incident reflects that people aren't ready to reconcile their differences and are unwilling to see the challenges that others face. And maybe, even just as this reaction on this forum alone along with the entire internet caught ablaze, shows that perhaps, we are not ready for that.

I guess it's time to return to my hut. Everyone's welcome besides those who scream, because those who scream have no consideration for others.

P.S. I'm tired as **** so sorry if this reads like a drunk sermon.

ShinyUmbreon189 November 26th, 2014 9:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizardo (Post 8510058)
What exactly do you mean by a century ago? Slavery ended over a century ago, but the Jim Crow era lasted well into the 20th Century, the Civil Rights Movement is still within living memory of many people today, and racism still exists today - especially within the American Criminal Justice system. Blacks will “get over it” when it no longer exists.

Not speaking for every black person, just the ones that feel their being targeted when they're not because they're deciding to commit crimes. I'm talking about the ones that give the justice system a reason. When they stop giving them a reason it will begin to stop. Until then, it will continue. Watch this video and pay close attention from 3:00 and on, it comes from a man of your own race.. He's beyond accurate as well, I know from personal experience. Got pulled over with 2 black people in my vehicle.. Guess what? ONE HAD A UNREGISTERED GUN AND ONE HAD AN OUNCE OF WEED! With that being said, it's the reason I have trust issues with blacks. Those 2 black people damn near ruined my life so I have a valid reason to have trust issues with blacks. Doesn't mean I can't trust them, it means it's gonna take more time for me to trust them. They have to convince me they aren't going to **** me over by getting me arrested, almost put in prison, and getting my vehicle impounded. The black friends I do have, I trust because they've earned my trust and don't' act like like a damn thug and don't commit crimes.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152603552157512

Lizardo November 26th, 2014 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 (Post 8510071)
Not speaking for every black person, just the ones that feel their being targeted when they're not because they're deciding to commit crimes. I'm talking about the ones that give the justice system a reason. When they stop giving them a reason it will begin to stop. Until then, it will continue.

Except this has never stopped with the blacks who are guilty. It also includes black men and women beaten and killed by police for protesting. It includes black children shot by police for holding toy guns, and unarmed black men shot for doing nothing at all. This also includes black inmates who receive longer sentences than white inmates for the same crimes committed, criminal laws and policies (e.g. the Drug War) that impact poor minority (black and Hispanic, mainly) communities more than white ones, police who racially profile minorities, etc. It has never been as simple as “don’t do bad things.”

Quote:

Watch this video and pay close attention from 3:00 and on, it comes from a man of your own race.. He's beyond accurate as well, I know from personal experience.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152603552157512
I made it to 0:56 in the video when I heard him say “Civil Rights... we won”. I have no issue with trying to promote personal responsibility, but that’s just plain wrong. And that belief is a big part of why people are having this argument.

Quote:

Got pulled over with 2 black people in my vehicle.. Guess what? ONE HAD A UNREGISTERED GUN AND ONE HAD AN OUNCE OF WEED! With that being said, it's the reason I have trust issues with blacks. Those 2 black people damn near ruined my life so I have a valid reason to have trust issues with blacks. Doesn't mean I can't trust them, it means it's gonna take more time for me to trust them. They have to convince me they aren't going to **** me over by getting me arrested, almost put in prison, and getting my vehicle impounded. The black friends I do have, I trust because they've earned my trust and don't' act like like a damn thug and don't commit crimes.
If the irresponsible actions of two black people are enough that you think you’re justified in having trust issues with blacks, an entire history of oppression from white authority figures (including police) against black people more than gives the latter justification for having problems with the former and the system set up by them.

This is not to say that there aren’t blacks who legitimately deserve to be punished by the law for the crimes they do. I’m saying that blacks are very much still disadvantaged in this country, racism still exists and did not end with the Civil Rights Movement, and that blacks have an understandable reason for being outraged when a white police officer shoots an unarmed black teenager and when the officer who shot him isn’t even indicted. It was the white man who made it that way in the first place.

ShinyUmbreon189 November 26th, 2014 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizardo (Post 8510152)
I made it to 0:56 in the video when I heard him say “Civil Rights... we won”. I have no issue with trying to promote personal responsibility, but that’s just plain wrong. And that belief is a big part of why people are having this argument.

Should of finished the video, and you guys did win the Civil Rights. Did you not get granted the same rights and freedom as the whites?

Corvus of the Black Night November 26th, 2014 11:14 AM

Ultimately I think this boils down to a couple of things.

1. Groups of people who were regularly shifted to the bottom rungs of society through oppression, such as black people, tend to have struggles financially. This financial struggle eventually peters out once integration occurs, but this can take some time.

2. While financially struggling, regardless of race or income, most people view these people negatively. For example, locally, black middle class/upper class individuals have far more animosity towards lower class black people than middle class/upper class whites. This actually leads to a problem since people tend to focus on the racial side of the issue, which, while valid in many cases 60 years ago, is not true now, which causes the problem to avoid being targeted.

3. Because black people took until the 60's to be legally integrated in UNITED STATES culture, they still suffer stigma in the UNITED STATES because they still have financial catching up to do. Because of various conditions, including an over emphasis on black-versus-white mentality (one of the most dangerous mentalities and what holds so many black people back) and a well defined separate culture in many communities, integration is difficult. The combination of these tactics help perpetuate both coincidental disadvantageous individuals as well as perpetuate the logic of racist bigotry.

Unlike other minorities, they don't have the following advantages:

- Women can change class through marriage and usually adopt the class of their husbands. This can open up women to better oppporitunities as well as helping to raise their own female children to become independent.
- Due to the way immigration has changed in the last 40 years, Asians (who historically faced far more discrimination before reforming immigration than some other minorities, it's pretty screwed up how much erasure this gets) have transformed from a stereotype of complete idiots to very smart, which has helped push them from segregation considerably. This issue has historical context and shows how much what kind of people you let in your country affects how people view them (Originally they brought in blue collar workers who could barely understand english and were considered disposable, thus considered "idiots", now immigration makes the US prefer those in the sciences and technology)
- Jews have consistently been pushed out of work that is middle/lower class and adopted forms of work that turned out to be more profitable (i.e. white collar), which also leads to the stereotype of them being "greedy".
- The physically disabled, which frankly should receive far more attention than Ferguson should in my opinion, have one distinct advantage socially - harming a disabled person is usually considered extremely taboo. In fact, this turns into another problem - their problem is that people don't listen and are not empathetic towards their problems since they make assumptions or are unwilling to explore their perspective.

Ultimately, this leads to an intense divide that is perpetuated by both sides. Even someone who tries to integrate themselves are commonly told to "sit down and shut up" instead of, I dunno, actual integration between the races. Ultimately both sides of participants (not all people participate in this, which leads to people "blind to colour") end up having the exact same problem on the other side and continue to perpetuate a problem of "white versus black." Ultimately this is why it must be eliminated.

I'm not saying this structure is right (in fact I think it's pretty wrong and leads to why education and health care should be available to all individuals), I'm saying that I think it's less to do with "omg black people do this" and more to do with trend following tactics that people tend to use to try to curb behaviour. Ultimately, the real ultimate tragedy of the impoverished is that they struggle to survive and sometimes make extreme decisions to try to make their lives better, such as selling drugs, robbery or joining gangs. I know people who have been involved in all three, and it's all because of the same reason - they want a better life, and their poverty, more than anything, cuts them off. By consequence, most people who are upper or middle class, who are protected by the police force, end up forming a battle between the two, and because black people have faced the most challenges with financial integration, they have committed, proportionally, more crime than other groups.

This isn't because black people are inherently bad, it's because many black people are in a desperate situation, because of a difficulty with rising in class. Ultimately, because of this, it can justify racism, or induce profiling. In addition, people who are lower class (more likely to be black) have more inherent

What is troublesome here though is that activists are also blinded by the race card here. It's so easy to be entranced by the racist narrative to ignore other possibilities, which is prevalent in this thread. The reality is that these issues strike people of all colour, gender, whatever. It's just that because of other circumstances, some people are struck more often than others. Again, in Detroit, most of the population lives in pretty low conditions, despite the population only having 54% black population. Other surrounding cities with better living conditions such as Southfield have higher black populations, indicating that this, at least in this case, may be far less of a race issue than it is an income issue.

Perhaps in Ferguson it is a blend of both - where there is enough racism in the area to perpetuate this cycle even further.

But in all honesty. Sometimes I wish you people would wear a blindfold for a day. It would be pretty enlightening I think.

Star-Lord November 26th, 2014 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyro (Post 8509974)
Lisa Bloom is a leech and the most rediculous attention seeking idiot on the face of this earth.

Regardless of your opinion of her she isn't the one who deserves to get disbarred right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daigonite (Post 8510060)
Can you try to not be a complete insufferable ******* in this thread?

People bending over backwards to try and defend Darren Wilson are a lot more insufferable than her.

Entermaid November 26th, 2014 11:53 AM

I wish this thread would be considered in terms of institutions and the identity/behavior established from institutions rather than the idea that groups of people are consciously deciding to have biases (this applies to all identities, minority/majority alike).

A. Some majority actors seek to maintain status quo. (Essentially no Minorities support this.)
1. Maintain income inequality and separation of culture.
2. Revert to older forms of status quo (turn the clock a decade or two in respect to race and political behavior/mobilization.)

B. Some majority and minority actors seek to incorporate/integrate minorities into the system better.
1. Assimilation - minority enveloped by majority
2. Pluralism - minorities and majorities being distinct groups with equal rights
3. Reciprocal Assimilation - All parties enveloped into a new system and identity (think white immigrant).

As a primarily white person, barring my other minority status outside of race, I tend to favor the third approach. Pluralism isn't effective, and leads to divisiveness rather than the desired effect of "egalitarianism", which has no clear definition. It forges separate and distinct interests, and thus, leads to a decrease in substantive representation...meaning, the total amount of constituents satisfied by policy and its implementation.

Those who are rioting are advocating the B2 approach to race/ethnicity in America. Further, most whites favor either the A1, B1, or B2 approaches. White Conservatives tend to favor A1/B1 and White Liberals tend to favor B2. These approaches are used in policy advocacy and political campaigning to garner votes.

The B3 response gives politicians no leverage over race and political campaigning, (since it is inherently non-divisive.)

The thread seems to be leaning towards the other responses I have listed, and they are all flawed, but it seem fair to assume the fault of these approach choices are based upon the simple heuristically employed in decisive political culture and political institutions.

Oryx November 26th, 2014 11:58 AM

I find it amusing how people are arguing so strongly about the actual case as if this was a trial. This was not a trial. This was a hearing to decide if there would be a trial. I think it's clear from the fact that a person was shot to death and there is confusion on what happened that it should have gone to trial.

You have to wonder why a grand jury, which are known for sending 99% of cases to trial, found this convoluted case open-and-shut enough that it didn't deserve one. It's also worth noting that in the grand jury hearing, there is no need to hear evidence against the prosecution. The prosecution chooses what is shown and, if they are doing their job correctly, choose the evidence that best shows that they have a case to bring it to trial. Instead, the prosecutor muddied the water with all the evidence, not even cross-examining Darren Wilson, and otherwise basically working for the defense. This was not a trial that the prosecution wanted to happen, so they gamed the system.

Regardless of your feelings on what the outcome of a trial should have/would have been, you have to agree that it should have had a trial.

Corvus of the Black Night November 26th, 2014 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moogles (Post 8510205)
People bending over backwards to try and defend Darren Wilson are a lot more insufferable than her.

What if he's right?

...Seriously, I mean this - what if he's actually telling the truth?

I can't make that decision, but seriously, what if he's honestly saying the honest to goodness truth? How do you know that he isn't? To a third party, there is compelling evidence brought up on both sides. Perhaps the reason why the evidence was withheld before the final decision was because they knew either way there would be a massive cluster**** on both sides.

How are you supposed to know any better than anyone else? Again, I find it extremely difficult to have an intense opinion on this - again, because I have bigger personal problems and I really can't deal with this **** right now - but from everything I've seen there's compelling evidence on both sides. Just because you want to selectively claim that somehow supporting him == racism doesn't actually mean that people who support him are racists. Why not listen to their opinion instead of automatically demonizing them?

It's actually a very healthy debate practice to observe and attempt to understand opposing debates. What you're doing is a very clear derivative of straw man - you're basically painting your opposition as racists or otherwise "bad" because you don't understand their debate. Why not ask the questions yourself that they're asking you so that you can gain some understanding for their debate, and possibly find ways to strengthen your argument?

Sure, there are certainly people who support him who are racists. There are also people supporting the Browns who are racists. Look at the people going around and using this to push a "white hate" agenda - is that not racism in of itself? What holds these arguments up besides the people's own bigotry? Nothing.

Ultimately, it's best to weed out opinions that hinge on bigotry on both sides and through those that I have seen, I think that both sides are focusing so much on specific information that both are failing to acknowledge the whole story. It is imperative, regardless of background, to focus on the entire story. And frankly, there's a lot to take in. There's a lot to weed out. There's a lot that you or anyone else could have missed. There isn't a smoking gun, because both sides are fighting over what that smoking gun is. A third party such as myself sees this as a problem with no clear cut answer.

Finally, regardless of the decision, I don't think the rioting is right, which is my ultimate problem here. If there is a problem with the law, address that, don't burn your city to the ground. As I said multiple times, that has happened in the past with a certain city and we all know what happened next. It's not justifiable, even if people are angry. If you try to hold people in fear, regardless of what side of the fence you are on, you only add tension to an already extremely tense situation. If the decision was reversed and the other side was rioting, do you think that you would hold the same support, even though it would have exactly the same consequences on the community? People will just get more pissed and more unwilling to work with you, especially if those individuals are individuals

That's why people STILL support MLK today but forget about many individual highly educated black activists throughout history who had various ideas from instantiating a civil war to migrating back to Africa - because someone like him actually supported actual EQUALITY as opposed to just dealing with the situation by pissing people off or running away. The former doesn't work because you piss people off and the latter doesn't work because you've already developed your own culture distant enough from Africa to actually be feasible and in a way you are invading THEIR land for your own needs, which usually ends not so well.

Lord Raven November 26th, 2014 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 (Post 8510165)
Should of finished the video, and you guys did win the Civil Rights. Did you not get granted the same rights and freedom as the whites?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizardo (Post 8510152)
This is not to say that there aren’t blacks who legitimately deserve to be punished by the law for the crimes they do. I’m saying that blacks are very much still disadvantaged in this country, racism still exists and did not end with the Civil Rights Movement, and that blacks have an understandable reason for being outraged when a white police officer shoots an unarmed black teenager and when the officer who shot him isn’t even indicted. It was the white man who made it that way in the first place.

He answered your question.

In short, by the law and in theory, yes, African Americans did receive the same rights.

But in actual application by those who are meant to enforce these laws? No.

Also, separate but equal stopped being a thing only half a century ago. People whose families were disadvantage as a result of segregation and Jim Crow laws will likely have offspring that will be disadvantaged for the same reason. Not only that, but opportunity doesn't come easy when you've grown up in a certain environment.

Sydian November 26th, 2014 12:34 PM

If the only posts you can make in this thread are to call people out with insults and inflammatory statements, you shouldn't post in this thread at all. Period. Ultimately the fate of this thread lies in Live's hands so if he has different plans for this thread, I'll let him decide. But for now, you all need to cool it. Infractions will be handed out next if it continues.

Thanks for understanding.

Sir Codin November 26th, 2014 1:04 PM

Racism or not, America has a serious problem with militarized police and a "shoot first, ask questions later mentality." Every cop I've seen has a taser on them. Wilson seriously couldn't have used his taser instead?

Cops are now asking for freaking drones for christ sakes. But of course, nobody is going to stand up and say enough because "not all cops are bad, m'kay?" right?

Enjoy your dystopian, Half-Life 2 police state future.

Grey Wind November 26th, 2014 1:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limerent (Post 8509449)
SJW's and African Americans will jump to what they want to believe and throw a tantrum by rioting when the facts don't match their agenda, which is a vendetta against the hated white man.

Honestly what is this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daigonite (Post 8510060)
Then again, you are the same person who summarized MLK's works as "pull their pants up" so I guess that might be too much to ask for.

She wasn't talking about MLK's ideals lol, she was talking about the people who preach that black people should act more civilised or w/e if they don't want to be profiled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarcharOdin (Post 8510307)
Racism or not, America has a serious problem with militarized police and a "shoot first, ask questions later mentality." Every cop I've seen has a taser on them. Wilson seriously couldn't have used his taser instead?

Apparently he didn't carry a taser because it was uncomfortable or s/t.


I agree with Oryx. Brown was unarmed, had surrendered and was on his knees; there was no need for him to be shot six times (or shot twice in the head). I'm not going to come out and say that Wilson should have been convicted of murder because blah blah we don't know everything but there is NO reason that it shouldn't have gone to trial. The verdict is ridiculous.

Sir Codin November 26th, 2014 1:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Wind (Post 8510353)
Apparently he didn't carry a taser because it was uncomfortable or s/t.

Wait, what the frig? Because it was uncomfortable? Oh, boo hoo hoo. Maybe next time he should suck it up and carry one so that we don't have a situation like this.

Seriously, why the hell is this guy even a cop?

Lord Raven November 26th, 2014 1:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Wind (Post 8510353)
Apparently he didn't carry a taser because it was uncomfortable or s/t.

I'd like to see a source on this.. it sounds way too stupid to be true.

Klippy November 26th, 2014 1:59 PM

Okay...I'm seeing a complete lack of fact-checking and misinformation in this thread and it's really irritating because it seems like some people aren't bothering to look at the evidence presented to the grand jury.

Here's an article done by NPR which also links to grand jury documents.

The comments I see in here display no concern for honest debate or real discussion because I see a lot of hearsay and straight-up false information. You're arguing whether or not the verdict is fair when the reality is that the grand jury used the evidence presented to them to render a verdict as accurately as possible. They can't use rumors and unreliable witness testimony. They can't use personal feelings.

The evidence presented to the grand jury matched Officer Wilson's version of events more accurately than any conflicting version of events. The physical evidence corroborates the story. Please stop posting false information and rumors. Read through the documents and see what evidence was given to the grand jury and then come to a conclusion. Don't just say whatever you feel about it and pretend the facts and evidence are not out there. All that matters to a grand jury is THAT information that was presented, not hearsay.

Her November 26th, 2014 2:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarcharOdin (Post 8510358)
Wait, what the frig? Because it was uncomfortable? Oh, boo hoo hoo. Maybe next time he should suck it up and carry one so that we don't have a situation like this.

Seriously, why the hell is this guy even a cop?

interestingly enough, wilson's first job was in a department that was so at odds with its community that the entire department was fired

ShinyUmbreon189 November 26th, 2014 2:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarcharOdin (Post 8510307)
Racism or not, America has a serious problem with militarized police and a "shoot first, ask questions later mentality." Every cop I've seen has a taser on them. Wilson seriously couldn't have used his taser instead?

Tasers don't always work, especially on someone that was the size of Brown with their adrenaline pumpin. There's been many cases where offers as a squad had to use their tasers to drop people. The currency and voltage of a taser is enough to tranquilize most people, but not always, especially if they're big or on drugs like PCP. Tasers are usually used when the victim is resisting, doesn't obey orders by getting on the ground, or is trying to flee. Charging an officer isn't resisting or fleeing, it's planning to assault so using his gun was necessary. If you claim he was on the ground when he got shot then explain why the jury didn't convict him? If he murdered him instead of killing in self defense then Wilson would be incarcerated for life without parole.

And to the people wondering why he shot Brown six times, it's not rocket science. A 9mm pistol doesn't have that much firepower so to drop someone the size of Brown it can take half the clip at times. Where as with a pistol like a .45 it would of been over after 1 or 2 shots. This is my personal opinion, he should of shot at the legs instead causing him to collapse and called for paramedics once he's in custody, he wouldn't bleed out instantly. I wasn't there, I don't know what exactly happened and how far away Brown was when he got shot. There's too many sources and any of them can be accurate.

Sir Codin November 26th, 2014 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limerent (Post 8510442)
@CacharOdin, police militarisation is relevant to this topic but it also fits into gun control. Why shouldn't police have military equipment like armoured personnel carriers when the general populace has easy access to high powered rifles that can turn a regular patrol car into swiss cheese? If you want that stuff fine, but police deserve proper countermeasures to protect themselves if that's the case.

What, you mean like automatic weapons? Those are not easily available to any John or Jane willy-nilly, they're extremely regulated, far far more than semi-automatics and handguns, they have been for many years. Also, the majority of gun crimes in the United States are committed with handguns. Sure you have the occasional black market sale and semi-auto rifle school shooting committed by lunatics who don't give a damn about gun laws or gun-free zones to begin with, but in terms of everyday antics, the cops in many areas are horribly OP.

ShinyUmbreon189 November 26th, 2014 3:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarcharOdin (Post 8510451)
the cops in many areas are horribly OP.

How so? Basic law enforcers are given 9mm pistols as the default weapon and they aren't all that powerful. I own one myself, and out of the 3 guns I have it's by far the weakest. I've never seen a cop carry a firearm with more power. In some counties depending on the state some may have a shotgun, but it's rare. The only law enforcers using military grade weaponry and armor is swat and riot teams and agencies like the FBI which isn't your everyday police officer. They're called in situations when it's out of a police officers hands and they need to use force. Of course an officer getting in a gun battle with someone carrying an AK 47 would require back-up but that's almost never the case.


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