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Could Gen 2 have the best games?
Is there some way you could argue for Gen 2 being the best generation of games, overall? If we tried to strip away stuff like Gen 6 having endlessly more advanced graphics and music etc. Or not, if you actually liked the looks and sound of Johto (and Gen 2 Kanto).
Whether you actually worship Gen 2 or not, could you find some reasonable arguments for this? |
Of course. Johto was actually my favorite of all the lands personally. I dunno what it was but it just felt like the funnest place to me. I am personally not a picky about graphics much so the newer graphics didn't impress me too much. I am more on gameplay and creativity and the first 3 Gens monsters were designed much better overall to me also specifically gen 2.
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Pokemon Gold was the first ever Pokemon game I played so naturally I have a strong love for it. Aside from that though, I genuinely think GSC were really really great games. There was heaps of post-game content, the battles where challenging and the story (while reminiscent of RBY) was interesting; things that I think are not as prominent in the current generation of Pokemon games.
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Gen 2 in my opinion had the best character interactions, the most varying towns, and the most features that dont make you feel overwhelmed.
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I just feel like G/S/C (and mostly Crystal, of course) was sort of the peak of early pokémon gaming. R/S/E had more colors but other than that I didn't feel like it was much of a step up when I bought Ruby and gave back my friend's Gold version I'd been keeping for months. There was no day/night system, everything felt strangely plastic and Team Rocket was gone. The rival was also suddenly no mysterious or mean thief or your old childhood friend - instead it was some kind of overly friendly new neighbor. Possibly D/P/P surpassed G/S/C in most ways, but I can still really enjoy a playthrough in Johto. I still like the music and simple graphics and I really love the areas and towns and pokémon. Silver was a very interesting new twist, too, and it's a shame rivals have become so... lame, really, nowadays.
So yeah. I could try to argue that the original Johto games are the very best! HG/SS are of course refreshing versions that I might prefer to play these days, but there is so much that the original GBC versions did just right. |
It was and still is the greatest gen. There was the perfect mixture of land and water, there were 16 gyms (wow) and the final battle was intense if you weren't really ready for it, and then sometimes you still fail at it even if you are ready.
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I liked Storyline of the johto games the most and it was the most interesting lace of all, and for the fact pokemon carrying items thing also released for first time in G/S/C and i also liked how they introduced Pokegear and radio card system , which were truly great in my opinion.
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Actually, Gen 2 is my least favourite generation. The games were short, the battles were underwhelming, and Johto Pokémon are uninteresting. I also found the games to be so slow-paced that every time I attempt to play GSC I only make it to the Azalea Gym. Then again, I'm way too biased here - I've never played GSC in my childhood, so they're the Pokémon games I played the least.
So because of that, I could never understand why people love Gen 2 sooooo much. Could anyone explain to me why? :\ |
Pokemon looked so much better than!
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TL;DR: Yes, you could argue that gen II is superior.
I suspect you could argue that any generation was the best generation. After all, "best" is very subjective, and there isn't really an objective way to say that "change X" is clearly better/more significant than "change Y." Disclaimer, gen II is my personal favorite, and I'm sure that nostalgia colors my perception of it. But can those who love gen III, or any other gen that they grew attached to during their childhood, genuinely say that their own memories have no bearing on their opinions? That being said, here are some things that made gen II really stand out for me: 1. Two regions. Yes, I know a lot of people argue that Kanto was a watered-down, glorified gym rush, and certainly, I would have preferred a better-developed Kanto, but I remember my excitement upon vanquishing the Elite Four and Champion and discovering that eight new badges awaited me. I didn't find the leveling scheme in Johto that problematic (though perhaps that relates to my being young and relatively inexperienced), and I loved the region and the story. Johto offered a great deal of geographic diversity, from oceans to mountains, small towns to large cities, while Kanto offered the familiarity of RBY with some new touches. 2. In many ways, GSC were sequels to R/B. The continuity between the games' storylines was something not seen again until gen V, and as a player who put countless hours into Red before picking up Gold, that was something I greatly appreciated. The physical connectivity between Johto and Kanto helped with this, as did the Team Rocket plotline and the references to what had changed in the past three years. The final battle with Red was a great touch, too. 3. Backwards compatibility (sort of). Unlike later games, where you could only transfer forward from one generation to the next, the Time Capsule in GSC allowed you to trade both ways, assuming certain conditions were met (e.g., no new moves or Pokemon). This was a feature I took advantage of to complete my Pokedex in Gold, and then to complete my Pokedex in Red after Gold died and I was stuck with just Red (from which I had traded a lot of Pokemon to Gold before Gold died), a Silver with very little money or Pokemon of value, and an incomplete Yellow that I didn't want to rush through. (Eevee breeding, anyone?) This was also great for my last-ditch effort to make teams to beat Stadium as quickly as possible (elemental punches from Goldenrod Dept Store = quick and cheap way to diversify a moveset). Overall, I was much more reluctant to transfer Pokemon in later games, because such a move was so permanent. But at the time of GSC, all of the main Pokemon games could trade with each other (unlike after the gen III reset), which was great. 4. New mechanics. Every generation has new mechanics, and we could argue all day about which ones matter the most. But I would argue that breeding, and the introduction of elements like genders and egg moves, made one of the most significant changes to Pokemon. Making a competitive team no longer necessarily required playing through a game over and over again to get the requisite TMs, and there was now some control over stat inheritance. Certainly, breeding has become much easier and much more fleshed out over the years (I can now breed 5 IV Pokemon with egg moves and appropriate natures in very little time), but gen II started us down this road. Without breeding, competitive Pokemon as we know it today would have been very different. As for other mechanics, I personally loved the day/night cycle (even if it did drain my internal batteries far too quickly), and I have many fond (/tired) memories of waking up early to try to catch some morning-specific Pokemon. Stat changes, like splitting Special into SpA and SpD, certainly changed the game significantly as well, as did the introduction of new types. Although other generations have brought changes that have significantly altered the metagame (e.g., abilities or physical/special split), these ones certainly had an impact. I'm sure that there are plenty of other elements that make gen II stand out, but unlike many years ago when I unwrapped Gold at a birthday party and began my journey into Johto with Totodile, I don't have the luxury of spending hours pondering them. The real world beckons. But the short answer is that yes, an argument can certainly be made for the superiority of gen II. That doesn't mean that gen II needs to be everyone's favorite generation, but the Pokemon world would have evolved differently without it. |
I don't know if they were the best games, but they definitely did some things I wish continued into later generations.
I don't have time right now to make a list, but going to another region is without a doubt at the top of that list. Imagine how cool going back to Kalos in ORAS would have been? |
Despite them being my favorite Gen (including stadium 2) I honestly feel it's not very replayable. Halfway through the game you go to screeching halt and have to though "that part of the game." Fighting Team rocket in their base and the Radio Tower is the biggest chore in any of the main series Pokemon games. There are so many of them you have to sit and fight. RBY also has this problem with the game corner and silph co being so long as well. Other then that section of the game I'd say it's pretty solid.
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I loved generation 2. Besides Silver was my first game, it's my favourite. I love the music and I love all the places. The story is great and the fact that there are 2 regions you can go to makes it even better. The end battle against Red is a great idea.
Overall, I think Generation 2 was the best! |
(Please keep in mind that everything in this post is just my opinion, so it's perfectly understandable if you disagree with what I say)
While I did like the Gen 2 games, I really don't think of them as the best games in the series. And while I liked being able to go to the Kanto region in those games and seeing how the region had changed, I actually feel that in terms of gameplay, the Kanto region was somewhat of a detriment. Quote:
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When you think about it, Johto could have easily been its own region while remaining that closeness to Kanto. Perhaps some of the text could have established that the Johto region borders Kanto, or have subtle references to aspects of Kanto that players of the Kanto games would recognise, yet wouldn't seem out of place to someone who didn't play the Kanto games. If done correctly, aspects of the story wouldn't be sacrificed - Team Rocket's plan to find Giovanni wouldn't seem too unusual since their plan is still being executed in a region that borders Kanto. Lance would still be able to help you in the Team Rocket HQ since Johto is still bordered by Kanto (and he could use Fly to get to Johto regardless of that, I assume). Professor Oak could still appear at Mr. Pokemon's house and do his radio show in Goldenrod because Johto and Kanto are close regions. And then moving on from the plot, the region itself could be made bigger, it could have more routes, it might have been able to have its own Safari Zone in Gen II, it could have a Victory Road (perhaps one that actually had trainer battles...), and have trainers and wild Pokemon at higher levels since most of them were at ridiculously low levels. Perhaps it could have even have its own Elite 4. These are just some of what Johto could have had if Kanto wasn't included in the games. So, moving on from Johto, let's look at Kanto itself. Surely it's good enough to make up for the Johto region seeming rather incomplete, right? Well... not entirely. I will admit that it wasn't terrible considering it was mostly added for the sake of nostalgia, and it was pretty faithful to the original (not including areas absent in Gen II, though since that was most likely due to space limitations). You might recall that I previously stated that I thought the inclusion of the Kanto region was a detriment to the gameplay of the Gen 2 games. Everything in Johto was about 5-10 levels lower than it probably would have been if it weren't for the inclusion of Kanto, but surely Game Freak would make up for that with Kanto, right? Once again... not entirely. The levels of the gym leaders were alright (except for Janine), but the levels of the wild Pokemon were terrible. Imagine you've just arrived in Vermilion City. You know this gym specialises in Electric Types, so why not head to the good old Diglett's Cave and see if you can catch a high leveled Dugtrio? Problem is, Diglett's Cave is blocked by a Snorlax. So, you come back when you can wake up that Snorlax, and enter Diglett's Cave. And then the highest leveled Pokemon you can catch is a Level 32 Dugtrio. Good luck training that up! Additionally, look at Murkrow and Houndour. oth of them are Johto Pokemon yet are found in Kanto. I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is the level they're found at - The highest level you can find Murkrow at is Level 29 when Gym Leaders are using Pokemon above Level 50. It's even worse for Houndour, you can only catch it on one Route at a pathetic Level 15. With Blue having Pokemon from Level 52 to Level 60, you'd think that the wild Pokemon around Viridian City would be at a decently high level. Well, they are... If you count Level 7 as a decently high level. And of course, Red. I really liked the idea of battling against the protagonist of the previous game, but this good idea was ruined by a level curve that would make Pokemon Yellow proud. Experienced players could probably beat Red with a team of Level 60 Pokemon, but less experienced players would have to grinding for ages against Level 50 wild Pokemon. I guess the idea of the battle against Red was that it was supposed to be extremely challenging, but in execution, a hard battle in Pokemon just results in players grinding for a while. However, that's not to say that I think of the Gen 2 games as bad games. While the addition of Kanto may not have worked too well with regards to gameplay, I definitely enjoyed the idea of going back to another region to see how it had changed, and I really think it's a shame that the only other games in the series to do this (not counting HG/SS since they're remakes) are actually my least favourite due to a tedious start. But that's irrelevant. I'll also concede that Gen 2 added some features that are important to this day, such as breeding and of course the split of the Special stat into Special Attack and Special Defense. I think it goes without saying that without these features, the recent Pokemon games would be very different, especially in terms of competitive battling. Generation 2 also introduced some of my favourite Pokemon (such as Scizor and Crobat) and I actually liked how there were only 100 new Pokemon, most of which were related to Kanto Pokemon - it helped establish that closeness to Kanto, and it didn't do what other generations did, which was adding a large amount of new Pokemon to an already large Pokedex. So while Johto's gameplay was lacking in my opinion, I appreciate some of the mechanics it introduced, the Pokemon that it introduced, and the effects that both of these had on the series. Quote:
tl;dr: gen 2 games weren't the best, but some of their ideas / mechanics were good holy crap, 1519 words if you count quoted stuff - i really have too much free time today |
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It wasn't until the hard reboot of Ruby and Sapphire that GF decided that every region should be an isolated entity with its own Pokémon, characters, and storylines. We never saw any direct sequels again (outside of the inter-generation sequels of Gen 5), nor did we ever see more than one region in a game again (postgames, in general, became more centered around Pokédex completion and competition--be it the "metagame" or contests--instead of exploration). Now, a lot of fans LOVE the setup of the later games, and that's great! They love being introduced to entirely new regions, characters, and Pokémon with every Gen, and they love the competition-focused postgames. Different strokes for different folks. However, Johto being directly linked to Kanto and Gen 2 being a direct continuation of Gen 1's story are exactly why it's my favorite Generation. Watered-down region or not, rebattling old gym leaders is far more fun to me than shiny hunting, breeding/EV training, or losing to cheaters in a battle facility, and I loved seeing how Kanto and the returning Gen 1 characters changed after three years. Finding Red at the end of Mt. Silver was the coolest thing ever. Stories are important to me, so a direct continuation will always get a thumbs up. |
We'll ya it had a lot of new features!
Firstly Johto is a great region and it has one of the largest post game stories a lot of cool character interactions the new dark and steel type pokemon and it had a,or of new evolutions plus its only game to continue off of an original story in a different region! I mean theyre pretty cool games u have to admit! |
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(And, yes, I dislike it when people bash the story aspect and treat number crunching and competitive battling as the main purpose of the games, an attitude that GF, sadly, seems to be agreeing more and more with.) Quote:
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eh I don't really feel like writing up a good argument. Basically I really do like the II generation, but something about it is horribly boring. Every time I get to Ecruteak the boredom hits me. It's like once you get to that point there isn't really much flow. You can basically start going anywhere you like. Usually once I beat the Champion I just stop there. I have done the whole Kanto thing and the trek to mount silver, but idk it just bores me people plz don't hate me
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Not exactly, because while the mechanics have improved over Gen 1 such as the revamped type chart, there are also some things in Gen 2 that felt like steps backwards. The Johto region was heavily dominated by Kanto Pokémon, and some of the Johto Pokémon could only be caught postgame. Ghost and Dragon still suffer from lack of type diversity, as Gen 2 only introduced one of each, giving Morty and Clair poor rosters. Speaking of rosters, some of the gym leaders aren't using Johto Pokémon as their ace Pokémon, which is counterproductive to the new gen they're trying to advertise, and there's still some questionable choices such as Will's two Xatus despite being more Psychic types in choose from. The level curse is another problem, and a major reason to be ticked off of Lance's three underleveled Dragonites, which he shouldn't be using due to making his roster poor. Even the Pokémon in Kanto postgame aren't at a higher level like in later gens. The postgame at the Kanto felt more like a chore than anything, so I have no idea why everyone wants a multi-region Pokémon game. Team Rocket's presence wasn't as troublesome as they use to be in Gen 1, having to be almost non-existent to the plot between the second and seventh gym, which is really wide if you ask me. The remakes failed to fix most of these problems within the main campaign.
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Gen 2 was lots of fun to play and the remakes only improved it by adding new graphics. Theres just one thing that bugs me. The changes made to lavender town. They changed the music way to drasticly imo and the whole thing with the Pokemon tower. They changed it into a radio tower and moved countless graves into one tiny room. Sure the one lady inside claims theres other room only Mr Fuji can access, but if that were the case I'm sure he'd need a door to get to them and the only door is the entrance. Also whats the deal with some occasionaly underlevel evolved pokemon? Falkner has a lvl9 pidgeotto and thats just not right.
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