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-   -   Mega Salamence banned from OU (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=339491)

Professor_Jared November 29th, 2014 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer99 (Post 8513657)
Yeah... But people just wants to stall. And if something is a threat to their style... They complain about it.

Take two seconds and imagine a meta with more stallers... Quite scary, Isn't it?


And, Stall teams eat me alive as well... Maybe with the time I find a way around them.

Tell me about it, the overabundance of stall teams just makes showdown boring and quite painful to play at times.

Nah November 29th, 2014 10:59 AM

There's too many stall teams? Never seemed like that when I battle. Usually I see more offensive teams (which is what Mega Mence is most threatening to, since they tend to be frail and it outspeeds most of them).

#DickBats November 29th, 2014 12:56 PM

Ferrothorn + Chansey + Rotom W <-- easily more than %30 has this sort of team. Or skarmory instead of Ferrothorn.

The Masked One November 29th, 2014 6:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer99 (Post 8513452)
Of course, Let's ban all attackers. It works like this, Pokemon: The Ultimate Stalling Simulator

As I said above, Mega Mence was OP. But, I noticed that the only things that eat the ban hammer are attackers. Quite funny, Isn't it?

What's a stall team? Sorry, I'm a noob to competitive Pokemon. So I'm going to inevitably ask noobish questions.

Also, I don't want to ban any of the attackers. If anything, I think some of Smogon's bans are kinda dumb. But then again, this is coming from the guy who started competitive battling only last December. Lol.

J9794 November 29th, 2014 6:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Masked One (Post 8514049)
What's a stall team? Sorry, I'm a noob to competitive Pokemon. So I'm going to inevitably ask noobish questions.

Also, I don't want to ban any of the attackers. If anything, I think some of Smogon's bans are kinda dumb. But then again, this is coming from the guy who started competitive battling only last December. Lol.


Stall teams are the ones who attempt to win by using residual damage instead of directly attacking. They use defensive pokemon and moves like toxic to wear down the opposing pokemon.

Polar Spectrum November 29th, 2014 10:15 PM

Before whoever above mentioned it, I hadn't really considered the bans of attack vs defensive pokes. So I did some research. Chuckles were had. Some usage stats on Smogon from earlier this year (pre-aegi ban and ORAS release) reveal that Rotom Wash was on roughly 20% of all players teams in their community's battles lol. It seems by usage there are more offensive than defensive in the top used though; but when I look at the banned list... again chuckles were had.

Keeping it on topic though; nothing is surprising about the Mega Salamence ban in that community. It only continues trends I have no need to repeatedly babble on about. Bottom line is people who live by those rules and do what Smogon says will now say farewell to it; while people who do not, will simply not carry on.

I look forward to seeing what roles Mega-Mence will play in the upcoming year's VGC though :3 That - I'm pretty interested in. Wether it becomes as mandatory as Talonflame / Mega Kanga in X/Y's first year or as short lived as the Mega Lucario which went down in one turn with no KO's to show for it in this past year's matches; I will be waiting to see.

WestCoastShiny November 30th, 2014 11:43 AM

I don't think it was a huge surprise that he was gonna get banned, but I still see people acting really surprised that he was. I mean, with a 145? Base attack stat combined with Aerilate and a solid 120 base special attack stat and a diverse movepool COMBINED with 2 great pre-evo abilities, it's just too good. However, I feel that maybe Mega Metagross is a good counter for the common set that was in one of the links. His 150 base defense and his pre-evo ability keeps him safe from intimidate as long as he doesn't mega evolve. Even then, he has tough claws and mega-mence is x4 weak to ice so it'd probably be just enough to break through. Let's also not forget that he has priority in bullet punch which I think is neutral if I'm correct. Just a thought. I don't have calcs to back this up but if someone could do that, that'd be cool. Try both a jolly and adamant nature for mega metagross with 252 attack.

Dark Azelf December 1st, 2014 7:33 AM

It makes me laugh how offensive players moan about something and it gets banned. Mega Mence wasnt really an issue for stall as many common stall mons wrecked it see; Skarm, Zong, Zapdos, Slowbro etc. But if stall players said "Oh actually can we get rid of Mega Medicham, Gardy and Heracross because they are psuedo uncountable oh and Gothitelle because every wall in the game is at risk from its garbage" yet nothing gets done about those lol.

Also if you cant break stall your team synergy/strategy/battling style is bad/flawed and you got outplayed. Sorry but its true. You've got stuff with base 160 offenses, Life Orbs etc and you still cant wall break. Let that sink in. :|

Regardless, its a stupid argument because an ideal metagame should be an environment where all play styles flourish, including stall. Think late DPPtHGSS metagame or RSE.

Anyway, mega mence and mega Ray are a perfect example of bs power creep and show that nintendo needs to STOP with the mega failures, they've clearly jumped the broken shark as shown by mega Ray getting an ENTIRE NEW TIER JUST FOR IT. As ive said before, this isnt digimon, nor do any sane players who strive for balance want **** running around with base 160+ offenses and megas show you're scraping the barrel because they introduced like 30 original new pokemon this gen. Lastly, what have been banned most of all this gen? Megas. Case and point. Personally i would love to see a mega free metagame, then people would actually have to to try when battling and team building instead of spamming <Gee wiz un-wallable unresisted move from base 190 attack>.

Quoth the elf. Forevermore. :)

Ryouta December 1st, 2014 7:55 AM

For normal pokemons is beat an mega evole pokemon very difficult and they are very strong.. :/

SnowpointQuincy December 1st, 2014 10:35 PM

I wonder what will happen to Mega-Salamence in VGC. Nothings gets banned there other than Mascot Legends and such. Mega-Khan was actually fair(ish) in Doubles. Maybe the same will happen here.

Being banned on Smogon is... just look at his stats. Do you think Arcues and Mega-Mewtwo should drop down to OU?

halcyonic December 1st, 2014 11:11 PM

yup totally, arceus-ghost best offensive/defensive spinblocker, mega mewtwo x (gg mega gallade) and mega mewtwo y (chansey exterminator yaa... 6-0s standard stall) -.-

#babagareeb

skyburial December 4th, 2014 10:52 AM

Anything that can take a 4X STAB Ice Beam from my Physical/Mixed Kyurem-B does not belong in the tier, in my opinion. Mega Salamence is ridiculously disruptive.

srinator December 4th, 2014 8:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyburial (Post 8519680)
Anything that can take a 4X STAB Ice Beam from my Physical/Mixed Kyurem-B does not belong in the tier, in my opinion. Mega Salamence is ridiculously disruptive.

what lol.
252 SpA Life Orb Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Salamence: 655-769 (166.2 - 195.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

even max spd hp mega mence cant take it, changed defences to 95/130/90 lol

Vinny Vidi Vici December 4th, 2014 9:31 PM

Apparently max HP, max SD can take an Ice Beam from an uninvested in SA Kyurem-B (without Life Orb), but even then, it's a coin flip as to whether it OHKOs or not. Maybe Skyburial ran into the wrong Mence on the wrong day, but at any rate, I think anyone who's seen what the tier was like for the brief while Mega Mence was allowed to run roughshod in it will know that the ban was more than justified.

srinator December 5th, 2014 9:12 AM

Why can't we just remove all mega's and have a clean ou tier :/

PlatinumDude December 5th, 2014 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srinator (Post 8520785)
Why can't we just remove all mega's and have a clean ou tier :/

Some Mega Pokemon are still underwhelming, like Steelix and Garchomp. Other Pokemon depend on their Mega Evolutions to be effective, like Charizard, Lopunny and Manectric. Even these Megas have their weaknesses.

The only Mega Pokemon that were banned from OU are Kangaskhan, Blaziken, Gengar, Mawile, Lucario and Salamence. This was because they centralized OU to an extent.

skyburial December 5th, 2014 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny Vidi Vici (Post 8520355)
Apparently max HP, max SD can take an Ice Beam from an uninvested in SA Kyurem-B (without Life Orb), but even then, it's a coin flip as to whether it OHKOs or not. Maybe Skyburial ran into the wrong Mence on the wrong day, but at any rate, I think anyone who's seen what the tier was like for the brief while Mega Mence was allowed to run roughshod in it will know that the ban was more than justified.

It's not entirely uninvested. Physical mixed Life Orb with a Lonely nature (56 invested in SpA).

Takes out Megachomp, Landorus-T, Stealth Rock-weakened Dragonite, all the major pre-ORAS points.

Zeffy December 5th, 2014 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srinator (Post 8520785)
Why can't we just remove all mega's and have a clean ou tier :/

But that would be similar to playing Gen V where everything is literally ****. happycow

srinator December 5th, 2014 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyburial (Post 8520850)
It's not entirely uninvested. Physical mixed Life Orb with a Lonely nature (56 invested in SpA).

Takes out Megachomp, Landorus-T, Stealth Rock-weakened Dragonite, all the major pre-ORAS points.

Kk
56 SpA Life Orb Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Salamence: 567-671 (143.9 - 170.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
:)

Vinny Vidi Vici December 5th, 2014 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyburial (Post 8520850)
It's not entirely uninvested. Physical mixed Life Orb with a Lonely nature (56 invested in SpA).

Takes out Megachomp, Landorus-T, Stealth Rock-weakened Dragonite, all the major pre-ORAS points.

I think perhaps you must have forgotten to put the Life Orb on it as I've done the calc and with the Life Orb you should be killing every time, even if you have an IV of 0. Without the Life Orb however a max SD (with boosting nature), max HP Mega Mence has chance of living. Here are the calcs (note I adjusted the SD to 90 for Mega Mence):

56 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Salamence: 372-436 (94.4 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

56 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Salamence: 484-567 (122.8 - 143.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Dark Azelf December 6th, 2014 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeffy (Post 8520857)
But that would be similar to playing Gen V where everything is literally ****. happycow

Isnt that a good thing?

Plus i find it hilarious that if you took the megas away, you'd see that they've introduced absolutely NOTHING new, original etc this gen. :\

P.s megas arent original. They're recycled, digimon-esque, laziest excuse for a game, psuedo uber pokemon lol.

P.s.s. Why are we arguing and doing calcs on how well salamence takes a STAB ICE BEAM? :| "Not very" would be the answer lol.

Nah December 6th, 2014 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Azelf (Post 8522264)
Isnt that a good thing?

Plus i find it hilarious that if you took the megas away, you'd see that they've introduced absolutely NOTHING new, original etc this gen. :\

P.s megas arent original. They're recycled, digimon-esque, laziest excuse for a game, psuedo uber pokemon lol.

P.s.s. Why are we arguing and doing calcs on how well salamence takes a STAB ICE BEAM? :| "Not very" would be the answer lol.

Not sure why'd you say that nothing was introduced this gen. There's 70ish new Pokemon, the Fairy type, Defog is usuable now, and they got rid of perma-weather, ending those goddamn weather wars we had in Gen V. Sure, it might not be as ground breaking as some of the stuff introduced in previous gens, but it's not nothing.

But I agree that running calcs on how well Mega Mence takes STAB Ice Beams is dumb though.
Guys....it's Salamence. It doesn't take Ice Beams. It only wishes it could.

srinator December 6th, 2014 7:58 PM

I wasn't doing calcs on how well mence takes ice beams, was trying to point that it doesn't.
Lrn2readup

KorpiklaaniVodka December 7th, 2014 3:08 AM

And to think Mega Mence is S-rank in the Ubers viability ranking thread...

Nah December 7th, 2014 5:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srinator (Post 8522791)
I wasn't doing calcs on how well mence takes ice beams, was trying to point that it doesn't.
Lrn2readup

I wasn't talking about anyone in particular.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmourPearlShipper (Post 8523103)
And to think Mega Mence is S-rank in the Ubers viability ranking thread...

Is it really? I need to play more Ubres to see how that thing does in there....


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