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Are fashion shows giving off bad messages to younger females?
This was something I wanted to post a topic on after seeing an article following the Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show, which aired on CBS last Tuesday. Now, I didn’t watch the show, because one, I was busy making notes for my finals, and two, the TV in my dorm building was static-y so I didn’t really have a good opportunity to. But I did see an article on Aol.com that, aside from discussing the musical performances present that night, briefly mentioned how (just like every other year) there were viewers who "jokingly admitted sobbing into junk food" over the images of the women present.
Now, it feels a bit weird that this topic is being made by a guy, let alone one who didn't even watch the show, but this is something I felt was worthy of discussion because what I think those girls that tweeted things like that feel is that they feel they're inferior because they're not as "pretty" as the people they're seeing on their screen. There are many people who wonder why there are younger girls who always think they're ugly, and an event like this I think kinda tells me why. Would you say that things like the fashion shows are influencing girls negatively in considering themselves ashamed of their image? Discuss. |
the fashion industry makes billions of dollars from perpetuating to all kinds of women that this look, this size, this skintone is the form you should aspire to, for that is beauty. if you do not fit this rigid form, then you are not beautiful, please change that through our various products. this is pretty basic knowledge.
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Their job is to make those women feel inferior.
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All businesses survive by the demand of their consumers. Sometimes they take measures to generate more demand where it would otherwise not exist. It's similar to advertising to children, for example.
I don't think the fashion industry is the end of the story, though. It seems a bit of a jump to go from "don't look like these models" to "I'm ugly". I think it begs a broader question about why people become insecure in general. How is a person's insecurity for things affected by society and how has that changed over time (are we more insecure today than we have been ten years ago)? I think part of it has to do with the competitiveness in society and the worshipping of "the best" - second place has no value. It seems that if you're not among the top, then you're nobody. It's not that you have less value, it's that you have no value if you're not recognized as being elite in whatever aspect. And moreover, it's not that you have less value in that certain aspect, it's that you have no value as a human being. I think this kind of thinking is incredibly flawed and poisons life in all aspects, not just body image. If you don't have this kind of job, you're nobody. If you don't have a relationship, you're nobody. So on and so forth. Then again, I don't want to generalize on society's behalf because not all people have that kind of viewpoint and I think it's rather cruel to assume that some people have such a damning point of view when they don't. I also don't want to make the claim that "most people" have such beliefs because 1) I don't know, 2) I'll never know, and 3) why should I have such a self-defeating attitude influence the way I treat other people? |
Female based fashion shows, and to a lesser extent, male based fashion shows are largely centred on preying on those with low self esteem. That doesn't mean that they are wholey evil per say, but they can be damaging to young minds, in particular.
Let's not forget that wonderful Oscar Wilde quote, though; "Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months." |
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I think it really calls on us to think about what beauty really is. How can beauty be transient if ideals aren't transient? |
For context's sake: I consider myself an MRA and someone generally opposed to a lot of what's said in the name of modern feminism.
And yes, absolutely. The whole fashion industry is revolting to me. I think that it promotes bad ideas and demonizes good values. While working to improve yourself, even if it's just your appearance, is generally something to be praised, they're going too far and deifying the idea of beauty. They've gone past the point of self-improvement and gone into the realm of obsession, something that's only reinforced by their peers and the industry they work in. What's more, they're actively discouraged from being decent people: the desire to improve one's self in other ways, such as learning or doing good works, things like these are detrimental to their ability to do well. The kind of attitude that industry and community promotes is something to be frowned upon. It encourages girls to be shallow, self-centered ****s, obsessed with looks, money, and sex. It teaches that self-improvement and self-betterment are bad things and that those who deserve the most respect and praise are those who look the best. Honestly, I think it's sick, and I think the people who buy into it and keep it running are just as sick, if not more so. I don't think I could name many things that have dumbed down as many people as this crap. I do think it's important to restate that I don't think it's bad to try to better your appearance, far from it. I actually wish more people had the desire to improve themselves in some way. The idea that some modern feminists espouse that all people are equally beautiful is ridiculous. What I do think is that obsessing over this one single thing to the detriment of your own humanity is the problem. |
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It's impressive, to me at least, that it not only has a simple and clear meaning, but some philosophical pertinence as well. Mr. Wilde had a skill for that sort of thing. But I digress! It seems like you're talking about elitism there. While I do agree that in some cases it can very much pervade society, I prefer to keep a more positive viewpoint. General opinion, after all, is formed from individual perspective. Humans by nature tend to focus on the negative. Which is a major aspect that effects the reaction that viewers to this sort of program have. We could just feel happy for the models for having such a high level of beauty, be it as reliant as it is by relative situations and modern eyes. However, instead we get the conclusion from most people that they themselves are ugly. To be honest it could be said that the venomous component of this equation is the viewers, but that arguably delves into blaming the victim, and then things start to get messy and grey. My personal opinion is that we can't honestly help these people outright. If we stop programs like this, then there will just be something else that they'll become set on. The best we can do is to be confident in ourselves, and be a good example. |
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short of the lofty thought of outright dismantling capitalism, there's not much we as individuals can do to fight against the power of the beauty industry. it's just too powerful and entrenched in our psyche regardless of our personal standards/opinions of it. although promoting plus-size models, models of colour, changing business practices etc is needed given that capitalism is not going to die anytime soon, it doesn't really do much to change the scheme of things. what's that microsoft word paperclip meme? 'it looks like there is no ethical consumption under late capitalism' the industry will simply change its tactics, like it is doing now, to ride the relatively weak wave of body positivity and profit off that while simultaneously continuing its usual practices. so, in short, i agree with the futility of going after the industry itself. while being confident in ourselves is a good thing, we have to make sure we promote and look after all who are targeted by the beauty industry. so, basically everyone. but more importantly, those that targeted even further than the average consumer. little black girls that get told that the lighter your skin is, the prettier you are. trans women that are pressured to look as feminine as possible. fat women that can't find beautiful clothing in their own size. while many other aspects of society factor into those examples, the impact of the beauty industry is one of the few aspects that can be removed from an individual through the confidence and support of others. there is no way to make the beauty industry ethical, but we can be ethical to those affected by it. |
I don't believe it's by nature, I think there's a strong societal explanation for it. I don't know why, but I get the feeling that people in other parts of the world just don't care so much about appearances than us.
Something that occurs to me as a paradox is why we focus so much about society's expectations in Western society. Compared to Eastern societies, you don't actually "have to" be anything, the social roles aren't so deeply carved in stone. That's the thing about Western societies, we're actually a lot freer from ingrained social roles but we end up being obsessed over them for some reason. I think this obsession for the negative is stronger in some societies than others. |
Now, I don't explicitly think that these fashion ladies want to make the low self-esteem ones feel bad about themselves, but I do feel that it does sort of give the wrong message. The thing is that when the "prettier" ladies express themselves, the other girls feel that they'll never be the people they're presented with. Not only that, but when they show off their image it can sometimes be seen as arrogance. There's nothing actually wrong with being proud of your image, but shamelessly showing it off doesn't really prove that much (except to the male gazers).
I may think that some of the girls that don't like their image should be able to relate to others on that spectrum. |
I'm not a women and I'm no zyzz but I don't see a problem with it, to each their own. If someone likes looking like skeletor and they know it pays the bills what's wrong with that.
I know skinny girls who are insecure because of the "real women have curves" stuff and honestly if you feel insecure about yourself because of trivial things like that then you should probably have a different outlook on life. |
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In Japan, in modern times even, paler skin is coveted. And up until very recently it was a legal and not unheard of practice in China to bind a young women's feet; preventing them from growing. Fascinations with appearances and changing them have been common throughout the whole world, for a very long time. I understand and don't necessarily disagree with the idea that western cultures often try harder to fit in, and conform to expectations and certain fads. But in my own opinion that's stemming from deeper issues that aren't really on topic, here. I'm not trying to argue a point, just tell you something you may not know! :D |
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I don't think fashion shows are really about the models. The point is to showcase the clothing (often, impractical clothing) as a form of art. So, what they need and use are essentially walking coat hangers.
The media around that though is what perpetuates that look as beautiful, even though it's unrealistic. For retail though, when they show off their new lines for the season, I think those models should be more normal and realistic as that's who will be buying |
I guess so but I honestly don't really care. I mean I guess the way I look at it is that if you're looking at yourself as an inferior beauty queen then you're forgetting your other possibilities. I think I'm a pretty neutral/ugly/whatever woman but I don't really think that makes me somehow more inferior of a human being. I guess it's how you look at it.
I only have a problem when the models are clearly unhealthily underweight or if seriously photoshopped because then you're pushing the lines. People can't really healthily obtain those possibilities so it's kind of a disservice to expect that in people. I don't think most fashion models, especially those on runways, have this exact problem though. Also I'd love to point out as someone who's pretty skinny that there are a ton of options for people who are a bit on the larger side. Honestly I'm a bit jealous since there are quite a few cute options for those individuals, but alas. Quote:
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I think it's less of an issue of the clothes themselves most of the time and more of an issue with body image, and unfortunately nothing is going to fix that; even if you're told that you're wonderful for being overweight that isn't going to necessarily fix everyone's insecurity with being overweight. That's just my two cents though. |
They are but so are most feminine targeted stuff like barbies/TV shows.
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Empty physical displays by women make me feel kind of hollow inside. To me, a woman is so much more than a body and I just cringe at those shallow sorts of things... fashion shows, Miss America contests... ugh. A female can be so much more fun and lovable than that. I wish there wasn't this sort of pressure for **** like this - it's not fair to anyone.
There isn't a question in my mind these send the wrong messages to the more impressionable of girls in society. Sure, a more intelligent human of either gender knows better than to succumb to these sorts of trivialities (dumber men falling into the male disease, as a reciprocal), but then again it seems to me a larger thing to do with social acceptance comes into play. Physical attractiveness is no stranger's business in my mind. It's your lover's, and his or hers alone. |
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Guys need to read some Tom and Lorenzo. Sometimes being able to laugh and poke fun at something like this actually helps give a better outlook to it all: http://tomandlorenzo.com/2014/12/2014-victorias-secret-fashion-show/ When it comes to fashion, you have to have fun with it. A GOOD model is all about trying to be a role model to encourage confidence, a HEALTHY body not just a skinny one,) and a healthy mind. It's usually the agencies that spin that out of control, and sadly, that's not the model's fault, it's what the model has to fight with in the industry. While a LOT of models are chosen for their specific body types (endomorphs) because it is easier to showcase the clothing that way (less alterations) I have watched a few documentaries and I do know that the VS models train very hard to attain and maintain the body they have. Look to people like Lorraine Pascale who wants to advocate health- yes part of it is about marketing too, but if it's a good message you can agree with.. then show support! Forget social media thinness and fads. Fashion has never REALLY been about that (at least high fashion).. that's all marketing and money. Be smarter than that, people! A fashion show is not a beauty competition. It's a walking gallery. Forget about all the reality TV garbage! |
^ I guess I can get where you're coming from with that article, as some of the ladies presented were at least presenting separate ways to look great than the others at the show.
But what exactly do the agencies do that the model they have for them has to put up with that she wouldn't want to? I'm sure there are many females out there who have done lots to keep their image good, and I bet that when they do model they have fun doing it. But I guess credit can be given if they're trying to showcase off clothing that those watching have probably never seen before in their life. You have female celebrities on Twitter always posting about what they'll wear to certain awards shows, so it can be argued that this isn't too much different. |
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"Fascinations with appearances and changing them have been common throughout the whole world, for a very long time." That's for sure, but I don't think there's a society with more emphasis on needing positive self-esteem than in North America. I guess it's not caring about appearances per se, but rather the need to feel good about yourself with appearance being one of many aspects. Also, I agree with Kura. Not sure why fashion models are considered to be the paragons of beauty. What is meant to be rather mundane can have a more significant meaning to someone I guess. I think the treatment of fashion models as ideals of beauty just happened to become popular for whatever reason. |
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Also I'd consider remembering that although celebs can get modelling bookings/ opportunities (again marketing and the agencies know how they look in front of a camera so they get hired for that reason), a celebrity and a professional model are actually two separate things here especially when it comes to social media. Also remember than many celebs have personal stylists. |
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I admittedly don't keep up with MRA or feminism, but aren't they basically striving for the same goal: elimination of sexism? Just one focuses on men's issues, and another one focuses on women's issues. I always felt like being one implicitly meant you are the other. Tacked on thought about the topic at hand: yes, they are. For the reasons a bunch of other people have touched on already. |
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But you said that these are more "walking galleries", I know they're not exactly competitions but I don't think that's the "proper" term to define it. |
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Nobody harps of glamour models for being size zero because they're not. If the purpose of your modelling is supposed to evoke erotic feelings, you kind of need to have curves to pull that off. |
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Model Izabel Goulart at 3:15 on Two and a Half Men, presented as a hot bunny on Charlie Sheen's arm. ""[Damon Wayans Jr.] jokes that this is by far his best episode yet because our time was spent hanging out with Alessandra and Ana Beatriz," Lamorne Morris (Winston) jokes about the high-profile guest spots. "My favorite moment of working with Alessandra and Ana Beatriz was the fact that they are just stunningly tall and gorgeous." An entire episode centered around how sexy Heidi Klum is. You get the point here. People try to reach that ideal because culture pushes it as an ideal. And as they reach for it, they push it on other people themselves by becoming part of the influential culture. |
Calm down and put away the pitchforks and flaming torches; this isn't the monster you think it is.
I feel like a lot of this is social justice warrior first, understanding later. I'm surprised at the very one sided argument in here. Fashion is not about making you feel bad about yourself. However, the industry does rely on presenting an ideal or an aspiration of what an individual wants to be. If I see a pretty dress being worn by an attractive model I want to wear that dress. That's how the marketing of fashion works and why models will always be beautiful. Take away the aspiration and the appeal to have the product dies. Also, I'd like to make some points. 1. Plus size models exist, as do petite (i.e. short) models. 2. While the fashion industry has in the past been guilty of using under size models throughout the last decade there has been a big internal push to use healthy sized models. Now this next part is very important: healthy is not overweight. What is considered thin is actually biologically healthy. The widespread obesity in western countries is warping the view of what a healthy size is to be larger than it truly is. Replacing current models with overweight models doesn't exactly help portray a healthy body either. As an example I am 163 cm tall and weigh 56 kgs (no where near underweight) and when I shop online on ASOS (for example) I am the same size as the models. I also wore a size 2 bridesmaid dress to a wedding once and had it taken in slightly. If that's one size up from 0, then that's not much to worry about, imo. 3. High fashion and commercial fashion are different. High fashion is more artistic and they generally book models that are unique and different. There is definitely no "specific beauty", theirs is entirely unconventional. Where you get the more conventional beauty is commercial modeling (e.g. target or something). 4. A model's job is to display the clothing to make it look it's best. As mentioned previously this generally requires the model to be in good shape and attractive. Even plus size models aren't particularly fat. The reason being that rolls of fat etc. will affect the appearance of the garment they need to display. 5. Beauty pageants aren't fashion and the two shouldn't be mentioned as though they are the same thing. 6. "Glamour" modeling and fashion aren't the same and also shouldn't be mentioned otherwise. To finish my response, I find the fashion industry boosts my confidence, which is the opposite of what the majority in this thread are commenting. When I look good on the outside I feel more confident, and thats the purpose of fashion. I also appreciate beauty. When I see attractive models displaying clothes I don't compare myself negatively to them, instead I examine what they doing it and consider those points next time I select clothes or get ready to go out. I think a lot of this is an attitude problem: it's only negative because that's all you're focusing on. Making comparisons between yourselves and others is never healthy, be it body or brains. Also, as a final note. Western countries certainly do not have the worst attitude on beauty. I think South Korea wins that hands down. Any actor, TV personality, pop star and model is pretty much guaranteed to have had plastic surgery. |
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For that matter, I don't think I said beauty pageants were the same as fashion shows, because the latter IS different and some people do not find it in good taste to have which women are chosen as prettier than the other. But as this thread has established, fashion shows are best exhibited for the clothing. And if by glamour you mean stuff you see in magazines, articles and the like, then that is probably not something I would compare to what we see in the major shows. But I still don't know if I quite get how promoting these fashions are supposed to boost confidence, at this point I don't think I want to say that they're not good to it but what i'm getting is that you think people will display more confidence if they focus on the models' habits with their outfits instead of the fact that they feel inferior. |
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As for glamour modeling, I kinda thought it was magazine stuff...but when you put it that way, yes, that and the fashion shows are definitely two different things. One of which is broadcast on television to the world, the other of which, as you said, is when girls pose for pictures at various locations. While it's not something that's generally attractive (at least not compared to doing it professionally for the cameras), that would be something I kinda see girls doing for enjoyment. |
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I don't think all fashion though is bad. If fashions shows are tapped into and if one is made with less typically seen models I think it can offer a positive message to children and adults alike. I do think though that the "ideal" will always exist. Btw did you guys know that most Egyptian pharaohs and their wives/husbands if the pharaoh was a woman were fat according to analysis on their mummies? So the statues we have left of them are nothing more than ideal representations of men and women at the time... |
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"Women were more depressed (R2 = 0.745, p <.05) and more angry (R2 = 0.73, p <.01) following exposure to slides of female fashion models." "Results indicated that exposure to the thin-ideal produced depression, stress, guilt, shame, insecurity, and body dissatisfaction. Further, multiple regression analyses indicated that negative affect, body dissatisfaction, and subscription to the thin-ideal predicted bulimic symptoms." "Exposure to thin-ideal magazine images increased body dissatisfaction, negative mood states, and eating disorder symptoms and decreased self-esteem, although it did not cause more internalization of the thin-ideal. Exposure to thin-ideal media images may contribute to the development of eating disorders by causing body dissatisfaction, negative moods, low self-esteem, and eating disorders symptoms among women." |
This isn't just a women's problem, it's also a men's problem.
I see all those guys on magazines with six-pack abs and chiseled features, then I look at my pot-belly and want to kill myself. |
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I don't think that a size 14 or so woman is outrageously overweight or unattractive but that doesn't really matter because people only care about what they think is popular. As conservative as it's going to sound, I think the core issue is with things like "family values" and teaching our children to find inner peace. Everybody should have thick enough skin so that they aren't swayed too easily by what others think. I mean, we teach media literacy in English from Grade 7 (probably it's earlier now) to help children understand media by identifying biases, messages, who the message is written by and for whom, etc etc but it's probably useless cuz nobody gives a **** about school anyways so the lessons fall on deaf ears. I don't know how feasible or whether we even should interfere with the fashion industry. I think as families and communities we have a responsibility to teach our children the lessons they need to understand themselves and the world and not be swayed by slick images. We can put our best foot forwards where we actually have power to effect change. |
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In realtion to your other comment, focusing on a models habits is not really the correct interpretation. It's focusing on the styling and why she looks good and taking that on board. For example, her accessories, hair and makeup. Quote:
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2. Lotus, I'm not sure why you assumed that disagreeing with having all models identical sizes that are in a practical sense unachieveable for most women is "demonising perfectly health women for the sake of the self esteem of the overweight". I would like to point out that all I'm talking about is wider representation of body types, and you've turned it into being demonized. How is not having every single straight-size model in existence be within 2 sizes of you imply demonization? 3. Why do we even need an "ideal"? The "where should we set the ideal weight to make women who don't match it feel terrible about themselves" argument is bunk from the start. Instead, we should remove the idea of an ideal. It's very clearly based in societal norms and not based in some base human nature that loves skinny women, considering in the past overweight women were seen as more attractive due to many societal reasons that differed by culture. This also rests on another bunk argument - that if the media shames overweight women by making sure they know that they are not beautiful, they are not the ideal, and they need to change to match it if they want to be beautiful, those women will change. Studies have shown that women feeling shame about their weight do not work to change it, on the whole - they eat more, they're more depressed (which causes weight gain), they're more sedentary. I know from my own personal experience that I began to lose weight when I began to love my body and want to take care of it. I did it from a place of comfort with myself, not shame. When you hate your body, why would you take the time to make it healthy? The focus on health regardless of weight and the focus on loving your body go hand in hand. This is a bit of a side note that was brought up with "everyone else just has an attitude problem" and will likely be brought up by that previous point - blaming a sociological trend in opinion on the people is willfully ignoring the point of sociology. There is a reason why a majority of people in a certain culture share the same opinion about something. When there's a crack in the dam and the river is getting through, you don't tell people to start trying to collect the water coming through and throw it out to solve the problem; you find the crack and fill it. There's a reason why when an entire class is failing, people look to the teacher and not the students. We are all influenced by our surroundings, well before we can even talk or fully understand what we're seeing. Sociological studies on opinions that don't make sense in your personal worldview are not there for you to say "well I think that opinion is stupid so I'll just get the 90 million people to be less stupid and solve the problem!" It's there to point out that there is a root cause for all of this, and if we find the root cause and fill the crack, then opinions will naturally shift. In society, the "cause" is much more complex and multifaceted. Models are certainly not the only cause, and allowing women of all sizes to be put up as desirable will not overnight cause people to change their opinions. However, it does contribute and stemming one crack is better than telling the river that it shouldn't flow. |
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men most certainly do have problems when it comes to body expectations and ideals and feel the same amount of stress as many women do, but it's important to remember that men aren't targeted with the same... how do i put this, vigilance as women are do you get what i'm saying? i'm not attacking i just feel like the 'and men too' thought needed to be... reevaluated |
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Even the most healthy of men find it difficult to maintain that sort of body, while the "thin" look of women is not nearly as difficult to attain. I had a "thin" "model" body through my late teenage and early adult years without even really trying, and quite a few women can do this as well. The same cannot be said for the male expectation. It almost kind of feels like you're claiming that one problem is more important than the other because of your own perception of its influence. Ultimately, both problems matter, and both can be lampooned in a similar way (portraying people as realistic as opposed to idealizations), so why even bother making the differentiation? Ultimately I think they balance out since while males are usually set up to a physically difficult to attain self image, women tend to be more photoshopped, which means that the "desired characteristics" can be in their cases unobtainable unless you have the proper proportions to begin with. Either way, it's extremely difficult and leads to huge self esteem issues, and telling people that their problems should be reevaluated in terms of whether or not it's genuine is only going to make problems worse. Honestly, I find the fashion industry far less damaging than the modelling industry because of the fact that many fashion options are available to people of all sizes, and while it may not be advertised as much, there are plenty of great options for many sizes. The modelling industry on the other hand sets up both sexes for an unrealistic expectation of what they should be. |
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With regards to my comment about demonisation, by targeting the models for their body shape you are demonising it. This goes deeper than this debate, thin, healthy people are being attacked for being thin. Overweight women are bemoaning the fashion industry for making them feel insecure about themselves, so they go out an insult thin women for not being "real women" or their favourite catchphrase "Real men want curves, only dogs want bones". I have curves, thank you very much. How exactly is this behaviour and attitude helping? If you want to take action against something in the fashion industry, perhaps focus on the post processing (i.e. photo shopping) done by the advertisers or magazines, which does have serious implications. This isn't contained to the fashion industry though, as a number of celebrities are guilty of doing this to their own photos. With regards to your comment on model sizes. Fashion designers don't make multiple pieces of the same design to match all the potential sizes of model there may be. They will make one piece in one size and if you don't fit in it you can't model it. As a result the scope of sizes of women will be limited. Where it is catalogue modelling, this is different as there should be enough stock of sizes to enable selection of different women. Whether they chose the same size because the bulk stock of bookable models is that size or because that's the size they want to display, I'm not sure. Either way, there are always plus size models which can range from size 10 to 18 to account for other sizes. Quote:
I agree that the ideal of thin women is not ingrained. I discussed this previously in a thread this year. People want to be better than everyone else, today that means money and fame. The rich and famous dictate what is attractive. If you go through the past perceptions of beauty, you will find that they follow the general appearance of the rich. Quote:
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On the other hand, I looked through some Vogue magazine covers, which is a more fashion focused magazine, for comments on body shape and found the below. It does comment on model's great figures, but right below that it mentions an article about fashion to flatter "every figure", which is a positive article. If you cycle through Vogue covers in general they focus on the new season looks and not on body shape so this isn't particularly common from what I saw. They look more like the second and third image. I persoanlly don't see how this is feeding body image problems. Spoiler:
On the other hand, here are some more OK magazine covers. These magazines are the ones sending the messages that make women expect they should be able to lose 7 lbs in 7 days, or even 10 lbs in 10 days. Spoiler:
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Pleeeeeease try not to make your post by editing it seven times. Every single one is a notification.
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Fashion itself is SO separate from what is giving people - let's be real, mostly women - bad self-esteem or low body confidence. Fashion can be really empowering, it flatters our favorite features and body parts, and can be used to subtly downplay our least favorite parts. Fashion really is SUCH an amazing art, used to accent our bodies and convey our personal taste and style. Ugh, honestly just typing this makes me want to go clothes shopping lmao.
Anyway, fashion shows are definitely not giving off bad messages to young females. The models in a fashion show are only used to showcase the designer's piece. That's literally it. The model isn't the centerpiece, it's what she's wearing that is going to attract attention. That being said, there is definitely a serious issue of self-esteem and self-confidence in Western society - particularly with women, and particularly with young women. Fashion is not the cause in any way, though. Media and advertisements are what's to blame here, companies make a lot of money telling their consumers that they aren't good enough and won't be good enough until they have "this latest, greatest new product!" It's all a big marketing ploy and women are targeted to become oh-so desirable by looking 10 lbs lighter than they already are and 10 years younger. (Glamour) models usually take a ridiculous amount of criticism because of their use as imagery of what is the "ideal" shape or look. It is a look that takes a lot of effort for most people in today's society to obtain, and if you're genetically predisposed to that body shape then lucky you, because not everyone is. It's all just a nasty cycle of media/advertisement taking advantage of the innate desire to be the best that you can be. Bettering yourself in any way is a beautiful thing, but if the message is being conveyed in a tone that implies that you're not good enough or worthy enough as you already are, then that's when it becomes malicious. |
i think a lot of you are getting confused between the fashion industry and fashion/glamour itself
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Really bothers me when people say that I shouldn't have any problem finding clothes because I'm a small size. Like as if people who are a size 0 are just automatically written off as being the "ideal." I actually have MORE of a difficult time than those who are bigger because of my stature.
I wear a 00 or a UK size 2 now. I used to wear a UK size 10-12 or so, which is US size 14, at my heaviest. I'm 4'10" tall. A lot of people would say "oh you're underweight now" but I'm not (I've checked with my doctor, I have semi-annual full blood counts because I like to make sure I am getting all my micronutrients and that my hormones are all in check, I eat extremely healthily now and I exercise regularly.) But sorry, I digress... going back on topic: A lot of things that I see on the runway, I can't wear because of my body shape. I have small shoulders, many straps and shirts are too big and unalterable. I have hips but a small waist so I can't fit into kids clothes, and the waistline on many coats, skirts, and jeans are too wide and baggy. XS is often too big. I always have to shorten hemlines of jeans, sleeves, etc. It is actually really hard for me to find clothes that fit 'properly.' (Shoes are even another story because I wear size UK2/ US 4.5) I'm just petite. So it really bothers me when people say that we have to "ban size 0" because then I'd literally have nothing to wear.. and I'm 100% healthy. I'm not a "rail thin" model. I have curves. I have breasts. I'm just pocketsized and I think it's unfair to lump a lot of women together just by a number size and that's why I agree with Lotus that a size 0 is not some sort of unachievable thing. If anyone has seen my posts in the picture thread I would think that they would agree that don't look unhealthily thin. All in all yeah.. I reiterate what mochi says. Models aren't the centerpiece.. and at least for me.. I always focus on the clothes. Just wanted to expand my thoughts :3 |
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Some thin people have metabolisms that allow them to eat excessive amounts of food with no impact on their weight, but a lot of thin people don't have overworking metabolisms. I certainly don't. I went overseas for work for two weeks once, and gained 6 kgs (13 lbs) in that time frame. All of your excuses for people being overweight are just that: excuses. Unless you have a rare disease/disorder that makes it impossible to lose weight, the only thing stopping them is themselves. The moment people stop making excuses and do something about it is when things will change. People need also be aware that losing weight isn't necessarily hard, but it's not an overnight process and you need to hold commitment. To add, 60% of Australian adults are overweight or obese. I don't know what it's generally like in the U.S.A. but in Australia: 1) There are footpaths everywhere, and where there aren't footpaths is generally in rural or residential areas where you can easily walk on the road or the side of the road. I live on a hill that has limited flat land for roads. The main road to get to many houses is a two-way single lane road with no shoulders or footpaths. People still walk up it to get home. Unless your cousins in NJ need to walk on a busy highway to get to their convenience store, I don't see why they need the footpath in the first place. 2) Fresh fruit is not that expensive, you can often buy 3 kgs of oranges for $3. In Australia the tax on purchases (GST) does not apply to "necessities", which include vegetables and fruit. You can even buy a cabbage for $4, which you can just keep eating steamed for a whole week (seriously, the veggie that just keeps on giving). Eating fruit and veggies isn't necessarily expensive so long as you make sure to buy what's in season. 3) 60% of the Australian population is not in poverty. I can't comment on the issues facing those that live below the poverty line, but that will not account for most of the cases of obesity. Quote:
The magazine covers I showed are conditioning women to feel body conscious, so of course when they see other things in their environment they're going to have that in the back of their mind. Plenty of TV commentaries and other similar trashy magazines do the same. I still don't think fashion is the villain here. |
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What about beyond body issues?
The importance of designer clothing lending itself to overspending to achieve a higher status at a prices of debt/insufficient spending elsewhere or non-spending and feeling inadequate. Everything is "so last season" for a reason --obsolescence. Discard the "old" and buy the new with every season purchases of new blouses, dresses, pants, clutches, pumps, glasses, jewelry, dozens of creams, makeup, styling products, or some other shimmer gloss pump xtreme volume vitality burst. Further, should art withstand the test of time, to an extent? Fashion comes and goes, there are no established elements of beauty, they are always changing. There is no purpose but to have change for its own utility, thus forging relentless transient relativism and beauty as one institution. The art of fashion is not an art because of this underpinning of obsolescence of the clothes and the concepts behind the clothing. A garmet that is considered beautiful and interesting ubiquitously one day, is then considered out-of-style and unattractive the next day. Art involves itself with any institutions of which there are beautiful elements and methodologies to understanding and achieving that beauty. Painters adopt vastly different styles of painting, they admire other styles, adopt elements of their beauty, omit others, and develop artwork that adds to the underlying elements. The artwork that precede the artwork of the artist are also beautiful and inspiring, not in the contrived "retro" respect either. Artwork from the past remains beautiful rather than mere "vintage" trends. Fashion is different in this respect and mainly because of the societal underpinnings of fashion throughout human history. Signifier of class/wealth, and an investment in personal social capital. Thus, obsolescence (uniqueness disguised as creativity) is a subconscious tool used to compete in social capital; either spend, change, and keep up, or don't. I'd rather see other industries flourish in place of the wealth and talent invested into fashion, whereas fashion/cosmetics/jewelry I'd like to see contract as an industry. Social capital ought to transcend gaudy and unrealistic fashion designs, which are bizarre and different for their own sake. I am not saying fashion is "bad" rather there is too much emphasis on appearance-spending and the time-investment that accompanies the emphasis. |
I think the sooner people realize that both men and women models portrayed in fashion modeling (or anything like it) are unrealistic for the average person to aspire to look like, the better off this society would be.
I don't look at a Ken doll or some guy on the cover of a magazine with ripped abs and think that I should try to be like them. It's unrealistic, and as soon as I realized that, the sooner I stopped feeling sorry for myself. Honestly, it's not the fashion industry's fault, so stop blaming them. It's all about an individuals mindset. If you think you have to look like a super model in order to love yourself, then I feel sorry for you. Everyone is unique, so trying to copycat another is ridiculous. Anyway, I think the fashion industry is fine, and that none of this would be happening if parents taught their kids more about loving themselves. |
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I do think it's rather over-the-top that people feel the need to be as good as (insert person being portrayed here) and feel crappy about it, but it happens because they're reminded that they're...not that person. |
I believe to a certain degree the parents are responsible. I remember seeing a little girl of about 6 or so walking around in clothing that befits a more. . . 'sophisticated' woman. That means to say, that if you aged her about 15 years and she was standing on a corner, someone would be giving her money to do. . . things. Parents shouldn't shirk their duty and give their parenting responsibilities to the boobtube.
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You either put in the effort that they do or just accept the fact that you are you and you're not supposed to be the same as anyone else. |
Well that is true, but part of the thing is, we know that the chances of us ever getting to wear the clothing present by the models is very impractical. But although we get this message that we should try to put in the same effort that these ladies do, not everybody is capable of doing that.
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I am just going to go out on a limb and say that I like the VS Fashion Show. I like what it markets (in terms of product) and I personally see fashion as art. I think it's empowering to take something as uncomfortable, and unpleasant to wear as a bra and make it empowering and beautiful for those who are wearing it and those who will see it on them!
BUT, I do think the VS fashion show, and fashion in general can improve to accommodate all body types (both men and women). I understand that some people dislike fashion but in reality it's just art! I think if you want to follow it and present yourself to the world in a well put together way everyday then that is positive, to judge people based on it is not. Keep in mind that there are women of the "VS model" figure, and they should be made to be beautiful BUT people shouldn't be told that they need to be that way in order to be beautiful. I know this is another subject as well but I don't believe in embracing anything but healthy and natural. If someone is naturally skinny, so be it, but people aren't naturally obese except under very specific circumstances which require (usually) hormonal treatment, etc. I don't judge people on their weight, but I do hope that people strive to be healthy! I have my personal preferences for my weight and for my spectrum of attraction but that doesn't mean I cannot love a certain person with a specific body type etc. I don't think the concept of fashion is rubbish, but I do think the capitalist side of it can be! I am just going to go out on a limb and say that I like the VS Fashion Show. I like what it markets (in terms of product) and I personally see fashion as art. I think it's empowering to take something as uncomfortable, and unpleasant to wear as a bra and make it empowering and beautiful for those who are wearing it and those who will see it on them! BUT, I do think the VS fashion show, and fashion in general can improve to accommodate all body types (both men and women). I understand that some people dislike fashion but in reality it's just art! I think if you want to follow it and present yourself to the world in a well put together way everyday then that is positive, to judge people based on it is not. Keep in mind that there are women of the "VS model" figure, and they should be made to be beautiful BUT people shouldn't be told that they need to be that way in order to be beautiful. I know this is another subject as well but I don't believe in embracing anything but healthy and natural. If someone is naturally skinny, so be it, but people aren't naturally obese except under very specific circumstances which require (usually) hormonal treatment, etc. I don't judge people on their weight, but I do hope that people strive to be healthy! I have my personal preferences for my weight and for my spectrum of attraction but that doesn't mean I cannot love a certain person with a specific body type etc. I don't think the concept of fashion is rubbish, but I do think the capitalist side of it can be! I also really do not agree that all fashion preys on people with low self esteem, it's not that vicious even if they're using low self esteem as a marketing aspect, imo. |
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