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-   -   How to save the world? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=341529)

Elite Four Grimsley January 3rd, 2015 12:26 AM

I remember replying to this same topic long ago and my perspective still remains the same.

If we're to 'save the world' we need to address its problems at their roots. Poverty? War? To eradicate them we need to deal with their source; lack of food, lack of infrastructure and their own sources. We can forever trim the problems off but they'll always grow back unless we kill them at their stem.

What that stem is though, I don't know.

Kanzler January 3rd, 2015 10:25 PM

I really like how this thread took a broad topic and hammered out what the question really is asking and then pursued the discussion down a certain path, because you can't talk about everything at once.

It looks like we're talking about saving the world by changing the dominant economic system, but I don't think that'll do much. A socialist economic system can be just as industrialist and polluting as a capitalist one. I think Alex is on point, though. Humans are really the only ones with the power to destroy - get rid of us and there'd be no risk of us forsaking our responsibility or failing to rein our power in, would there? And besides, without any humans, there wouldn't even be the question of having a world to save, because who would be here to think it?

It seems that most people in this thread believe what the world needs saving from falls under the umbrella of human misery.

Rogue planet January 5th, 2015 4:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livewire (Post 8562581)
Maybe not industrialization in that sense, when I say industrialized or developed I mean developed in a sense that they have commodities and luxuries such as top rate healthcare, tech, education systems, etc. It doesn't have to necessarily be capitalistic, even if the benefits they would reap are ones you usually see in western capitalistic societies.

yes of course, those are all things we'd like to see available for everyone.

Quote:

And if anything "works", it's the Nordic social democracies of northern Europe, incredibly high standards of living coupled with universal healthcare, high social mobility, and welfare. It's a synthesis of a market economy with a "welfare state" and their model works incredibly well - they enjoy more freedoms than most of the western capitalist economies.
Ah, Scandinavia, the classic example of a "society that works" except it's not exactly the utopia it's made out to be link 1 link 2 Unfortunately they have deep set flaws just as every other European country. I will be the first to admit, whilst USA has the more extreme examples, Europe's model is also incredibly flawed.

Speaking from my own personal experience (and I know the flaws regarding this kind of data gathering, don't bother pointing it out) living in the Netherlands, consistently ranked one of the happiest nations on the planet; but what actually goes into that calculation, and who determines the levels? NL is a good country, sure; but it still has very deeply entrenched racism, and I'm not just talking about Zwarte Piet. There are many social issues (especially with accomodation) despite the extensive effort provided towards the (seemingly) excellent social benefits.

danielthegamerful January 7th, 2015 5:55 PM

To save the world, one must ask what is there to save?

We can't use the term "world" for everything, what we really mean is Earth. Of course we are responsible for destroying our Earth, and saving it is a really long term project. We've have so many years of hurting the Earth (of course there are programs and communities that like to stay "green" as you would say it).

The first thing I think we have to create is "Earth Peace" among all current Living things on the Earth (not just humans).
The second thing would have to be saving the Earth from our own destruction (no littering, no smoking, etc.).

Stay safe, stay warn, and most importantly stay happy! Peace!

Livewire January 9th, 2015 2:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold warehouse (Post 8567103)
yes of course, those are all things we'd like to see available for everyone.



Ah, Scandinavia, the classic example of a "society that works" except it's not exactly the utopia it's made out to be link 1 link 2 Unfortunately they have deep set flaws just as every other European country. I will be the first to admit, whilst USA has the more extreme examples, Europe's model is also incredibly flawed.

Speaking from my own personal experience (and I know the flaws regarding this kind of data gathering, don't bother pointing it out) living in the Netherlands, consistently ranked one of the happiest nations on the planet; but what actually goes into that calculation, and who determines the levels? NL is a good country, sure; but it still has very deeply entrenched racism, and I'm not just talking about Zwarte Piet. There are many social issues (especially with accomodation) despite the extensive effort provided towards the (seemingly) excellent social benefits.

Nobody claimed it was a utopia. That being said, the "social" european economies weathered the global recession a lot better than most of the world did, and those social welfare security nets did their job for those who were hit hard. If it's 2007-08, I'd much rather be living in Sweden than England, Greece, etc.

And I'm talking strictly about social and welfare programs, compared with those seen in western capitalist economies. I frankly do not care about Denmark's large carbon footprint, I care about their healthcare and education models more, and what that could mean for other growing countries looking to enhance their own. Those two things can help solve some of the world's problems we've been talking about. Climate change and carbon emissions are a huge problem as well - we need to worry about the United State's and China's emission policies (As the two largest polluters) before we address the smaller offenders. Maybe update or enhance the Kyoto Accords and get the US/China/India on board with tougher emission caps.

Gardevoir the Dragon Slayer January 9th, 2015 3:09 PM

I wonder if robotics could be the way to improve the world, with an economy where the jobs people don't want do or where workers would normally be exploited would be automated, and the results of the production (i.e. the profit made) put into state funding to fund services but most importantly a citizen allowance (that people would get), meaning that people would only work for their own passion rather than because they need the money.
People could focus on their own interests thus increasing their health and well being.
Also Politics would have to be on a volunteer basis rather than as a means for people to make politics a career.
Also Education could be presented as self improvement rather than a means as an end (i.e. to enter the world of work).
Also an overhaul of the economy to prevent things like decent housing being out of the reach of large groups of society.
Another necessity is to prevent rapid population growth.

lloebet January 9th, 2015 3:32 PM

The good ol' fourteen points by Woodrow Wilson.
  1. Open covenants of peace, openly arrived at, after which there shall be no private international understandings of any kind but diplomacy shall proceed always frankly and in the public view.
  2. Absolute freedom of navigation upon the seas, outside territorial waters, alike in peace and in war, except as the seas may be closed in whole or in part by international action for the enforcement of international covenants.
  3. The removal, of all economic barriers and the establishment of equality of trade conditions among all the nations consenting to the peace and associating themselves for its maintenance.
  4. Adequate guarantees given and taken that national armaments will be reduced to the lowest point consistent with domestic safety.
  5. Free, open-minded, and absolutely impartial adjustment of all colonial claims, based upon a strict observance of the principle that in determining all such questions of sovereignty the interests of the populations concerned must have equal weight with the equitable claims of the government whose title is to be determined.
  6. The evacuation of all Russian territory and such a settlement of all questions affecting Russia as will secure the best and freest cooperation of the other nations of the world in obtaining for her an unhampered and unembarrassed opportunity for the independent determination of her own political development and national policy and assure her of a sincere welcome into the society of free nations under institutions of her own choosing; and, more than a welcome, assistance also of every kind that she may need and may herself desire. The treatment accorded Russia by her sister nations in the months to come will be the acid test of their good will, of their comprehension of her needs as distinguished from their own interests, and of their intelligent and unselfish sympathy.
  7. Belgium, the whole world will agree, must be evacuated and restored, without any attempt to limit the sovereignty which she enjoys in common with all other free nations. No other single act will serve as this will serve to restore confidence among the nations in the laws which they have themselves set and determined for the government of their relations with one another. Without this healing act the whole structure and validity of international law is forever impaired.
  8. All French territory should be freed and the invaded portions restored, and the wrong done to France by Prussia in 1871 in the matter of Alsace-Lorraine, which has unsettled the peace of the world for nearly fifty years, should be righted, in order that peace may once more be made secure in the interest of all.
  9. A readjustment of the frontiers of Italy should be effected along clearly recognizable lines of nationality.
  10. The people of Austria-Hungary, whose place among the nations we wish to see safeguarded and assured, should be accorded the freest opportunity to autonomous development.
  11. Romania, Serbia, and Montenegro should be evacuated; occupied territories restored; Serbia accorded free and secure access to the sea; and the relations of the several Balkan states to one another determined by friendly counsel along historically established lines of allegiance and nationality; and international guarantees of the political and economic independence and territorial integrity of the several Balkan states should be entered into.
  12. The Turkish portion of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely unmolested opportunity of autonomous development, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.
  13. An independent Polish state should be erected which should include the territories inhabited by indisputably Polish populations, which should be assured a free and secure access to the sea, and whose political and economic independence and territorial integrity should be guaranteed by international covenant.
  14. A general association of nations must be formed under specific covenants for the purpose of affording mutual guarantees of political independence and territorial integrity to great and small states alike.

Her January 9th, 2015 4:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anakin Linux (Post 8573374)
  1. Open covenants of peace, openly arrived at, after which there shall be no private international understandings of any kind but diplomacy shall proceed always frankly and in the public view.
  2. Absolute freedom of navigation upon the seas, outside territorial waters, alike in peace and in war, except as the seas may be closed in whole or in part by international action for the enforcement of international covenants.
  3. The removal, of all economic barriers and the establishment of equality of trade conditions among all the nations consenting to the peace and associating themselves for its maintenance.
  4. Adequate guarantees given and taken that national armaments will be reduced to the lowest point consistent with domestic safety.
  5. Free, open-minded, and absolutely impartial adjustment of all colonial claims, based upon a strict observance of the principle that in determining all such questions of sovereignty the interests of the populations concerned must have equal weight with the equitable claims of the government whose title is to be determined.
  6. The evacuation of all Russian territory and such a settlement of all questions affecting Russia as will secure the best and freest cooperation of the other nations of the world in obtaining for her an unhampered and unembarrassed opportunity for the independent determination of her own political development and national policy and assure her of a sincere welcome into the society of free nations under institutions of her own choosing; and, more than a welcome, assistance also of every kind that she may need and may herself desire. The treatment accorded Russia by her sister nations in the months to come will be the acid test of their good will, of their comprehension of her needs as distinguished from their own interests, and of their intelligent and unselfish sympathy.
  7. Belgium, the whole world will agree, must be evacuated and restored, without any attempt to limit the sovereignty which she enjoys in common with all other free nations. No other single act will serve as this will serve to restore confidence among the nations in the laws which they have themselves set and determined for the government of their relations with one another. Without this healing act the whole structure and validity of international law is forever impaired.
  8. All French territory should be freed and the invaded portions restored, and the wrong done to France by Prussia in 1871 in the matter of Alsace-Lorraine, which has unsettled the peace of the world for nearly fifty years, should be righted, in order that peace may once more be made secure in the interest of all.
  9. A readjustment of the frontiers of Italy should be effected along clearly recognizable lines of nationality.
  10. The people of Austria-Hungary, whose place among the nations we wish to see safeguarded and assured, should be accorded the freest opportunity to autonomous development.
  11. Romania, Serbia, and Montenegro should be evacuated; occupied territories restored; Serbia accorded free and secure access to the sea; and the relations of the several Balkan states to one another determined by friendly counsel along historically established lines of allegiance and nationality; and international guarantees of the political and economic independence and territorial integrity of the several Balkan states should be entered into.
  12. The Turkish portion of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely unmolested opportunity of autonomous development, and the Dardanelles should be permanently opened as a free passage to the ships and commerce of all nations under international guarantees.
  13. An independent Polish state should be erected which should include the territories inhabited by indisputably Polish populations, which should be assured a free and secure access to the sea, and whose political and economic independence and territorial integrity should be guaranteed by international covenant.
  14. A general association of nations must be formed under specific covenants for the purpose of affording mutual guarantees of political independence and territorial integrity to great and small states alike.

given that these 14 points are nearly a century old and refer to situations that have long since been resolved (the ottoman empire, for instance), what do you think should be updated and what do you think should replace the now irrelevant points?

Khawill January 9th, 2015 4:57 PM

Save the world? Well, the best way is to perfect space cocolonization and head toward the stars, leaving those who wish to mend the earth to stay here. I do not believe in world peace, and I believe wars will happen between humans forever, so why not just but a few light years between us. Don't let different planets interact, and now we have saved the world of earth at least.

It would be great to unite the world under one government, but that won't happen, people are too patriotic, racist, or set in the past.

Sir Codin January 9th, 2015 5:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aques Keus (Post 8573482)
Save the world? Well, the best way is to perfect space cocolonization and head toward the stars, leaving those who wish to mend the earth to stay here. I do not believe in world peace, and I believe wars will happen between humans forever, so why not just but a few light years between us. Don't let different planets interact, and now we have saved the world of earth at least.

Except, the Earth will inevitably be consumed by the sun expanding anyway, so really your plan isn't good so much for saving the Earth as it is for saving humanity from extinction.

Khawill January 9th, 2015 5:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarcharOdin (Post 8573509)
Except, the Earth will inevitably be consumed by the sun expanding anyway, so really your plan isn't good so much for saving the Earth as it is for saving humanity from extinction.

Haha, by the time the sun explodes, there probably won't be life on earth anymore, and perhaps every human in the universe will have forgotten about the blue dot in the milky way. If we think oofsaving the earth as saving the nature on earth, then getting rid of humans is pretty simple.

Everybody is so caught up in the destruction of things. Killing all humans will save the environment, the earth will be engulfed in the suns flames, or all humans die eventually why bother. I personally tthink it should be our goal to shoot off into space and explore.

gimmepie January 12th, 2015 8:56 AM

Human beings are greedy, arrogant and stubborn creatures. Whether we admit it or not we
1. All want more than we have
2. All think we are right
3. Oppose change and refuse to yield or even acknowledge some of our flaws.

If you disagree see my sources, every war ever.

So if by the "world" you mean human society, then I think that there's no saving it unless somehow you can change human nature, something that we developed over thousands of years as a means for survival. I think the best we can hope for in that regard is to find some temporary peace in the world before all hell breaks loose again. I think the best ways to achieve this are

1. Education - We need to learn more about the world and more about each other. We need to learn more about how political choices affect us and other people, more about different religious and political groups, more about history and philosophy. We also need to start spreading education more evenly throughout the world. Education should also be cheaper to allow more access to higher education throughout the world.

2. Nuclear Disarmament - Nuclear weaponry needs to go away and soon, one day someone is going to press that button and then everyone else will press their and then there will be no human civilisation to sae.

3. Distribution of Resources - Through either socialism or free trade, it doesn't matter so long as everyone has what they need to survive. Then people can do what they wish with their resources and if that makes them more or less successful it is on them.


If by the "world" you mean the Earth -which is a lot more noble than trying to save the problem, but I'm too self-preserving to admit i-- oh... anyway. If you mean the Earth, humanity is finally starting to take steps in the right direction. We are researching alternatives to Fossil fuel, we're making conservation attempts and interfering with the environment less and most people are educated about climate change (YES IT IS REAL. Just take one look at the drastic changes in Australia's weather in recent years... you know that bug continent/country/island right below the hole in the o-zone layer.) We're a long way off but if we continue along that road, especially continuing to research clean energy there's a chance.


Personally I'd love to see a combination of the two things I just mentioned - spend less money on war, political endeavours and out-of-control capitalism and more on education and the environment. Personally though, I don't see any of these changes ever happening and certainly not in my life-time. Most scarily though is that I'm not sure there's any point in trying to save the world, morally I feel like there is but logically I know whatever we do is just temporarily putting off the world's fate; neither our society nor the Earth will last forever regardless of our action.

Edit: Sorry if this is a bit jumbled or rambly, I'm half-awake but can't sleep.

Rogue planet January 12th, 2015 9:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livewire (Post 8573262)
Nobody claimed it was a utopia. That being said, the "social" european economies weathered the global recession a lot better than most of the world did, and those social welfare security nets did their job for those who were hit hard. If it's 2007-08, I'd much rather be living in Sweden than England, Greece, etc.

And I'm talking strictly about social and welfare programs, compared with those seen in western capitalist economies. I frankly do not care about Denmark's large carbon footprint, I care about their healthcare and education models more, and what that could mean for other growing countries looking to enhance their own. Those two things can help solve some of the world's problems we've been talking about. Climate change and carbon emissions are a huge problem as well - we need to worry about the United State's and China's emission policies (As the two largest polluters) before we address the smaller offenders. Maybe update or enhance the Kyoto Accords and get the US/China/India on board with tougher emission caps.

Well then here's a more social issue. The headline is bullcrap, I know, but you get the point. I'm not totally disagreeing with you, of course if the whole planet was a bit more like our welfare state friends it would be a whole lot better. I just kind of wanted to make a point because fingers are often pointed to Northern Europe in particular as a "better place", but if you live there you'll see it has plenty of dissatisfaction that inevitably comes about when our society is structured in the way it is; albeit with less murders involved.

Sir Codin January 12th, 2015 9:14 AM

Eh, I'm still not sure how I feel about social democracy.

It sounds good, but I'm really skeptical.


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