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-   -   1st Gen I honestly think that Gen 1 is horrible (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=343269)

QueenNothing January 29th, 2015 8:50 PM

I honestly think that Gen 1 is horrible
 
The outdated battle mechanics make the games really unplayable in today's standards, and not to mention how horrendous the sprites from R/B are.
This is all my opinion though, so feel free to disagree.

BettyNewbie January 29th, 2015 9:18 PM

Oh, I don't necessarily disagree with you, and I'm a fan of the games. RBY had glitchy, broken mechanics, and RB really did have some horrible (if sometimes charming) sprites. Even GSC were a huge graphical and mechanical upgrade over that, which is partially why they were so well-received.

This, of course, is why Gen 1 could really use a new, proper remake. If there's any Gen that could benefit the most from a full modern makeover, it's this one. I'll admit that I still enjoy playing classic Yellow, but unless you grew up with the games, it's hard to get around their age. (Plus, even I've always wanted a Gen 1 that had things like Day/Night, Berry trees, newer Pokémon, and graphics that didn't make me wince).

QueenNothing January 29th, 2015 9:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8599664)
Oh, I don't necessarily disagree with you, and I'm a fan of the games. RBY had glitchy, broken mechanics, and RB really did have some horrible (if sometimes charming) sprites. Even GSC were a huge graphical and mechanical upgrade over that, which is partially why they were so well-received.

This, of course, is why Gen 1 could really use a new, proper remake. If there's any Gen that could benefit the most from a full modern makeover, it's this one. I'll admit that I still enjoy playing classic Yellow, but unless you grew up with the games, it's hard to get around their age. (Plus, even I've always wanted a Gen 1 that had things like Day/Night, Berry trees, newer Pokémon, and graphics that didn't make me wince).


I agree and somewhat disagree.
I don't think Gen 1 needs another remake, because I was happy enough with Fire Red. However, I wouldn't mind remakes.

Mega_Kris January 29th, 2015 10:26 PM

I also agree. the Generation 1 sprites look horrendous. But whats worst is that they didn't need to look ugly, especially the back sprites. Nintendo has made amazing sprites before on game boy and the game boy also handle more detailed back sprites. I understand Gamefreak might've been new to it, but their backgrounds look great.

But there is a hacked ROM that gives the game gen 2 color and gen 2 sprites. Which actually makes Gen 1 shine even more. The trees look great, better than Gen 2's in my opinion.
http://hax.iimarck.us/topic/3399/
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af339/MrStewart950/Pokemon%20Red/bgb00005_zps9e910935.png
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af339/MrStewart950/Pokemon%20Red/bgb00005_zps22b94149.png
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af339/MrStewart950/Pokemon%20Red/bgb00006_zpsa45f9c92.png
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af339/MrStewart950/Pokemon%20Red/bgb00005_zps216854a7.png
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6748/greensand.png

Platina Berlitz January 29th, 2015 11:27 PM

You can't judge a 15+ year old game by today's standards...It's the series that started it all, and was good for its time

Mega_Kris January 30th, 2015 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platina Berlitz (Post 8599796)
You can't judge a 15+ year old game by today's standards...It's the series that started it all, and was good for its time

i hate it when people think its about "today's" standards...It has absolutely NOTHING to do with today's time....keep in mind, Gold/Silver/Crystal came out not too long after RGBY, and people still love those games.

yes, it started it all, it still deserves flak. I've seen better sprites from games that are 20 years older.

morrison January 30th, 2015 1:15 AM

Nostalgia makes everything good. and it is still addictive. Also Pokemon centers were great.

Mega_Kris January 30th, 2015 2:29 AM

Nostalgia is based within one's mind. Its all subjective.

Just like Mario Bros live action movie. We shouldn't ignore our better judgement and we shouldn't blame modern times for a game that could have definitely looked more impressive especially with the games weve been seeing release at the time.

BettyNewbie January 30th, 2015 9:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlasmaGruntMagus (Post 8599672)
I agree and somewhat disagree.
I don't think Gen 1 needs another remake, because I was happy enough with Fire Red. However, I wouldn't mind remakes.

I wasn't. FRLG didn't do anything but take the old games as they were and slap a fresh coat paint on them. We didn't even get the things Yellow added (like a following starter), let alone everything GSC and RS brought to the table, like Berries, Contests, newer Pokémon, and most of all, a CLOCK. And, their graphics and mechanics haven't exactly aged that well, either. I'd rather they just erase these rubbish enhanced ports (they didn't add enough to be true remakes) from memory and start fresh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiny_Unown (Post 8599740)
I also agree. the Generation 1 sprites look horrendous. But whats worst is that they didn't need to look ugly, especially the back sprites. Nintendo has made amazing sprites before on game boy and the game boy also handle more detailed back sprites. I understand Gamefreak might've been new to it, but their backgrounds look great.

But there is a hacked ROM that gives the game gen 2 color and gen 2 sprites. Which actually makes Gen 1 shine even more. The trees look great, better than Gen 2's in my opinion.
http://hax.iimarck.us/topic/3399/

I've heard of that hack, but sadly, I've never gotten it to run properly. The screen would always white out whenever I picked a starter. :(

I'd love to see a Yellow hack that did something similar. Yellow was already compatible with GBC pallets out of the box, so it theoretically, shouldn't take too much to make it resemble GSC (Yellow and GS even used the exact same kind of GBC-enhanced GB cartridge, called a "black cartridge"). Plus, Yellow has more features than RB and much nicer tilesets, IMO.

Gardevoir the Dragon Slayer January 30th, 2015 9:16 AM

I loved Gen one in the late 90's and early 00's when I played it, but in all honesty now I don't find it as engaging as I don't really like Kanto and find the graphics a bit poor and the limitation of 151 pokemon, lack of genders, ability, natures, Dark, Steel and Fairy to restrictive.

On the plus side Yellow is pretty unique with Pikachu and the anime connections.

Pendraflare January 30th, 2015 9:41 AM

I'm sure you're not the only person who feels this way about Generation I today, but to be brutally honest i'm not one of them. I mean, I would still rather play FRLG than them, but they're not quite my least favorites. Although I feel like I should try playing them again before I claim this...

BettyNewbie January 30th, 2015 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gardevoir the Dragon Slayer (Post 8600249)
I loved Gen one in the late 90's and early 00's when I played it, but in all honesty now I don't find it as engaging as I don't really like Kanto and find the graphics a bit poor and the limitation of 151 pokemon, lack of genders, ability, natures, Dark, Steel and Fairy to restrictive.

On the plus side Yellow is pretty unique with Pikachu and the anime connections.

Well, a shiny new 3DS Yellow remake would fix all of those things. The Generation's story and setting isn't and shouldn't be wedded to 15-20 year old graphics and mechanics.

hananas59 January 30th, 2015 11:53 AM

To me the games are just as great as today's ones, judging by the gameplay and the storyline. It's the core of the game that counts, though color would be good on that game.

I dislike gen 1 for another reason, I didn't really like the pokémons, with a few exceptions of course. I just find the region not as appealing with it's characters, but that could be just me. And that's the first I look at really when dealing with this kind of things.
The story was best though and I really liked what they did on that.

Pollichops January 30th, 2015 5:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiny_Unown (Post 8599835)
i hate it when people think its about "today's" standards...It has absolutely NOTHING to do with today's time....keep in mind, Gold/Silver/Crystal came out not too long after RGBY, and people still love those games.

yes, it started it all, it still deserves flak. I've seen better sprites from games that are 20 years older.

Have to agree with the sprites thing, but really, even with running through it again, I still see a good game. I don't see how anyone can think the battle mechanics were bad. The GB had like 4 buttons. I think it worked.

boxingboy January 30th, 2015 5:46 PM

Hey I'm playimg firered atm, what would have been good was being able to travel to johto after defeating the elite four and getting 60 pokemon.
This is my first post :) Hey everyone.

BettyNewbie January 30th, 2015 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxingboy (Post 8600890)
Hey I'm playimg firered atm, what would have been good was being able to travel to johto after defeating the elite four and getting 60 pokemon.
This is my first post :) Hey everyone.

Welcome to the site! :)

To be honest, FRLG piss me off far more than RBY ever could because of how badly they failed to live up to potential in every single way. I think they're the only set of games that actually removed more things than added new ones, and what few new things they added were absolutely pitiful. (Hello, small useless islands!) These games actually felt less modern than even GSC, which is just sad.

CoffeeDrink January 31st, 2015 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlasmaGruntMagus (Post 8599620)
. . .and not to mention how horrendous the sprites from R/B are.

Don't worry, we'll visit you in your sleep. . .

http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/2/23/Spr_1b_042.pnghttp://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/2/23/Spr_1b_042.png

I do believe that these games, while they may not be up to today's standards deserve a modicum of respect. If the games sucked as much as you say they do, then they would have fizzled out, no one would have played them and we'd all be on a different forum altogether. Besides, would it not have been best to have put this in the Gen 1 section? Or are you comparing the first generation games to the second generation games specifically. There are just as many people that dislike the second generation as much as the first generation, mind you. . . although they're wrong and it's the third generation that wonked things up but that's besides the point.

The point is those Golbats will find you for insulting them, and when they do I don't think they'll give you any mercy.

TheLegalSquare January 31st, 2015 2:13 AM

Played Yellow recently. While it's not bad, I laughed when I saw how bad Pikachu looked from the back. Just a hilarious mess of pixels. At least replace the back art of the main damn pokemon with a nice one lol.

BettyNewbie January 31st, 2015 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalSquare (Post 8601309)
Played Yellow recently. While it's not bad, I laughed when I saw how bad Pikachu looked from the back. Just a hilarious mess of pixels. At least replace the back art of the main damn pokemon with a nice one lol.

Sadly, all of the Gen 1 games, including Yellow, used the same terrible back sprites from the original Red/Green (which were based on those games' horribad front sprites). They really should've updated the back sprites in Yellow like they did the front sprites.

Just in this department, alone, GSC were a huge improvement. I love RBY hacks that use Gen 2 back sprites for this very reason.

Imperator161 January 31st, 2015 7:24 PM

Were the backsprites in RBY bad by today's standards? Yes.

Were they bad by the standards of the 1990s? As previously mentioned, they weren't great.

But does that make the games unplayable? Obviously, that's a very personal question, but I still enjoy RBY, even if they aren't my favorite games in the series. I guess I've never cared that much about graphics vs. everything else, so the backsprites don't really bother me. Give my blob of pixels a nickname, and I'll still quickly become attached to it. And with simpler graphics and animations, the original games play more quickly than some of the later generations (especially gen 4--battles were so slow in that generation), which makes it faster and easier to jump into the action and immerse oneself in the pixelated world of Pokemon.

As for the mechanics, which seem to be the more relevant part of this topic, they are reasonably simple compared with modern gameplay. I personally like returning to the days when I could battle anyone I wanted with my party and not worry about messing up a perfect EV spread, but when it comes to competitive play, gen I certainly gives players a more limited set of options than some of the later generations. It's kind of nice to get away from held items and natures and the physical/special split every once in a while, though, as the changes have made for a very different metagame than the one we see today. While I've never really played gen I competitively (aside from on Stadium, but there, I pretty much just brought my in-game team in or used the not-too-good rentals), it's fun to have a different set of viable options at my disposal than the ones I use today. Yes, gen I battling is probably less balanced than gen 6 battling, but it's fun in its own way, and I don't find it unplayable. I still enjoy firing up my N64 and playing some Stadium, or watching/playing the occasional gen I match on Showdown or another battle simulator of choice. Though I knew nothing of competitive battling when I first played through Red, I've read a lot of gen I related articles over the years, and it's actually quite an interesting game.

One of the elements I find most intriguing about gen I is actually the thing that scared me most about it when it was a kid: glitches. The games are obviously incredibly glitchy, to the point where I sometimes wonder how I initially managed to play them without making something go wrong. I remember first learning about the Missingno glitch, showing my friends, and then being terrified that they would trade me a glitch Pokemon and mess up my game. But as I've come to understand the various glitches in RBY more thoroughly, I've come to appreciate how relatively simple code could create a series that brought me hours of enjoyment in my childhood, and how easily something in that process could go wrong. As a relatively inexperienced programmer, the coding of the newer games is too complex for me to really get my head around without more effort, but RBY are simple enough that when I read an explanation of why each glitch occurs, it makes sense. Thus, I enjoy returning to RBY not only for the nostalgia and for the differences in gameplay and mechanics, but for the hopes of discovering why the game operates exactly as it does, and how GameFreak built (and sometimes messed up) this foundational chapter of my Pokemon experience.

That being said, while I still think that playing RBY has value, it does seem like high time for another remake (or perhaps a sequel set primarily in Kanto). I personally like Kanto (it's probably my second-favorite region, after Johto), and I feel like it could definitely be fleshed out a bit more with XY graphics and mechanics. A Yellow remake seems unlikely to ever happen, since it was so tied in with the anime, but given the recent game-per-year trend, an RB remake doesn't seem out of the question.

BettyNewbie February 1st, 2015 9:41 AM

I agree with most of what you said, Imperator.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator161 (Post 8602278)
That being said, while I still think that playing RBY has value, it does seem like high time for another remake (or perhaps a sequel set primarily in Kanto). I personally like Kanto (it's probably my second-favorite region, after Johto), and I feel like it could definitely be fleshed out a bit more with XY graphics and mechanics. A Yellow remake seems unlikely to ever happen, since it was so tied in with the anime, but given the recent game-per-year trend, an RB remake doesn't seem out of the question.

The new timeline established by ORAS makes a sequel an impossibility, now. Neither RBY/GSC or FRLG/HGSS exist in that timeline, and you can't have a sequel without a prequel, first.

As for Yellow vs RB, I'd accept another paired game remake, but only if A) we get Blue instead of Green (which has zero nostalgia for anyone outside of Japan), and B) Yellow elements are mixed in (like HGSS included Crystal elements).

Megan February 1st, 2015 4:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiny_Unown (Post 8599835)
I've seen better sprites from games that are 20 years older.

Can you elaborate on this statemant? All I can think of in terms of other sprites are those from The Final Fantasy Legend and they look terrible xD

Tbh. I really like the simplistic design of the games, which also includes the sprites. There will never be a Pokemon game that's as close to the original concept of Pokemon and yet so simplistic, than the gen 1 games. No fancy movesets, no powercreep, no stupid timelines (sorry, but I really don't care about which games come before or after whatever game and what game is in which dimension, etc. pp.) and other mechanics that made the games more complicated.
Granted, the first games where coded and balanced terribly, which lead to a lot of problems, something that fortunately was fixed in later games. But they still have their own charme which makes me want to play them again once in a while.

Mega_Kris February 1st, 2015 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.F. (Post 8603497)
Can you elaborate on this statemant? All I can think of in terms of other sprites are those from The Final Fantasy Legend and they look terrible xD

Tbh. I really like the simplistic design of the games, which also includes the sprites. There will never be a Pokemon game that's as close to the original concept of Pokemon and yet so simplistic, than the gen 1 games. No fancy movesets, no powercreep, no stupid timelines (sorry, but I really don't care about which games come before or after whatever game and what game is in which dimension, etc. pp.) and other mechanics that made the games more complicated.
Granted, the first games where coded and balanced terribly, which lead to a lot of problems, something that fortunately was fixed in later games. But they still have their own charme which makes me want to play them again once in a while.

Final fantasy Legend sprites indeed looked terrible, but a vast majority of older games such as mario, mega man and many more had better sprites. Also people knock off the gameboy as a very limited game but it never had to affect the sprites. Another great game is Link's awakening which did an amazing job for all the sprites.

Regardless people defend Gen 1 as if their talking to people who have no idea how it was like. For example, the argument of "simplistic" sprites. I really hate getting into this topic when it comes to gen 1 because people who defend always say why they think its the problem.

The problem isnt "simplistic", the sprites have always been simplistic even from Gen 2. In fact, a lot of the sprites in Gen 1 tried too hard.to be detailed. Rather than allowing the colors to contrast, they attempted to add in as many shades as possible. Unlike gen 2, which only added two colors not including black and white.

I admit Gen 1 has some charm....and that is story, anything else is just nostalgia. I cant even help myself to even try to complete the pokedex. Every pokemon I saw, I was disgusted with it.
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/216/1/9/blastoise__made_to_print_fit__by_dnzgames-d59n5ge.png

This is not simple....but ill say this, if they took more time figuring out their designs, proportions, and how much shading they should use, then yes simplicity wouldve saved the sprites.


Keep in mind pokemon itself is the driving force of the game. And keep in mind that pokemon gen 1 has some poorly designed pokemon.

Playing the gen 2 mod of pokemon red/blue enhances the game significantly.

Megan February 2nd, 2015 4:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiny_Unown (Post 8603785)
Final fantasy Legend sprites indeed looked terrible, but a vast majority of older games such as mario, mega man and many more had better sprites. Also people knock off the gameboy as a very limited game but it never had to affect the sprites. Another great game is Link's awakening which did an amazing job for all the sprites.

Let's not start comparing NES and GB as there are too many differences between those two, like screen resolution and color depth. But I'll give you that Links Awakening had some good artwork implemented into the game. Then again: there's a difference between Nintendo as a big games and consoles producing company and Gamefreak, who where relatively new to the market. Originally the games weren't even intended to be released outside of Japan.
Quote:

Regardless people defend Gen 1 as if their talking to people who have no idea how it was like. For example, the argument of "simplistic" sprites. I really hate getting into this topic when it comes to gen 1 because people who defend always say why they think its the problem.

The problem isnt "simplistic", the sprites have always been simplistic even from Gen 2. In fact, a lot of the sprites in Gen 1 tried too hard.to be detailed. Rather than allowing the colors to contrast, they attempted to add in as many shades as possible. Unlike gen 2, which only added two colors not including black and white.
Wait, what? I get that you're around since gen 1 was released, but are you implying that people who like the sprites and who actually try to find some arguments on why they like them, outside of the generic "nostalgia", are just a bunch of ignorant fools? You don't need to be an artist who fully understands how art works in order to be fascinated by a picture. The sprites work for me and that's all I need to get into the mood of playing the games.

giradialkia February 2nd, 2015 7:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlasmaGruntMagus (Post 8599620)
The outdated battle mechanics make the games really unplayable in today's standards, and not to mention how horrendous the sprites from R/B are.
This is all my opinion though, so feel free to disagree.

Well it's a given - Gen 1 games definitely have some kind of charm, but they're so very, very old that they really can't hold up by today's standards - but that's the point. I think if you just emulate them on your phone, or play through to pass some time, they can still be enjoyable, but you still gotta take certain things into account like the fact that there are only 160 attacks, and to a much more significant point, the fact that the typing system is flawed. I'm relatively sure that when it comes to dual-typed Pokémon, only one of those types (i think the second?) is taken into account by the 'damage algorithm' or whatever you wanna call it. Unfortunately I can't think of any examples right now, but I know that in a recent playthrough of Red Version, I encountered something that flat out shouldn't have happened.

I love the retro Pokémon games though, so if someone was looking for an experience SOMEWHAT closer to a modern Pokémon game, I'd definitely recommend GSC. The colours are amazing, the music is outstanding, and the battle system is drastically improved in a number of ways.


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