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I like these games. They were the first I played. I only wish it had Johto.
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This thread is officially no longer about FRLG being bad but instead about 1st gen re-remakes/sequels.
My biggest gripe with FRLG is the music. They decided to increase the pitch of most of the battle themes, so they're not faithful. They haven't done this in further remakes. The gym leader theme is still good, but the wild battle theme makes me cringe. But the game, despite being basically the same as RB, is already largely different due to all the generational updates in Pokémon stats, typing and movesets. Charizard is MUCH better in FRLG, Alakazam is MUCH easier to beat, Pidgeot has a usable Flying-type move that's not a 35 BP Wing Attack (although Gust isn't much better)... There are a few Pokémon that are worse, true, but the vast majority is better in FRLG than in RBY. If this was a remake of another series, I doubt we'd see as many mechanics updates. To Betty's credit, I think certain remakes only work with the latest mechanics. In Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon, Nintendo tried to remake the game with the mechanics of the very first FE for the NES and were largely criticized because outdated mechanics should be left in the past. It's why, for example, ports of Sonic the Hedgehog allow you to spindash while the original Genesis one didn't. It may even feel like cheating, because they weren't there in the originals, but it's for the good of the games. Mega Evolution, however, breaks any Pokémon game, and I don't think making ORAS revolve around it was that good... In XY you can get the last stage of the Kanto starter very early, and after that you have a ridiculously powerful Pokémon to crush the opposition with. It's why fan made games are usually the best, because fans have a lot of different approaches to the game. The Doom community thrived with the source code release because coders did all kinds of cool things with the code. They added mouselook, which wasn't there in the original; they added higher resolutions, fixed bugs... And one, would you believe it, even did an exact port of the classic Doom games that works on Windows, complete with all the bugs, the purest port you could imagine. And all of them are fun. Chocolate Doom is fun because it's the original working on Windows, Risen3D adds a lot of eyecandy and even 3D models, ZDoom improves the engine beyond its capabilities and makes it more "modern", but with few graphic improvements. Your favorite is your choice, really, but it's great that all of them coexist. Personally I wouldn't want to see a new remake of 1st gen, and I don't think we'll see one, because Origins exists. Yes, it isn't canon, because it's not the game, but I'm sure GF contracted a studio to do it because they wanted to show Kanto with Mega Evolution without making a new game. It has a lot of questionable art and design decisions, but it has its worth as a "what if" scenario. Also, there's not a big commotion for a new remake to happen, like there was with Hoenn. I see more people saying they're bored of Kanto (because, truth be told, Kanto's been in A LOT of the games) than they want a new remake. And Kanto isn't the only region that isn't in 3D... Sinnoh and Johto (and future Kanto) are partially in 3D, but not full 3D. And their 3D is the ugly DS 3D. Also, let's face it, Kanto, though well-designed, isn't really a "nice" region in terms of eyecandy... They'd have to rebuild the region, and then it wouldn't be the Kanto we grew to love anymore... It also wouldn't be Kanto anymore if we added Dark-types and nocturnal Pokémon to the Pokédex. We just had the opportunity to play through a game with a Kanto starter, so I think a new Kanto remake is pretty low on GF's list of priorities right now, especially in the current gen. |
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The region has too much Poison and Water and not enough Ghost, Dragon, Steel, and Dark... And, FRLG did nothing to fix this. Quote:
Silktree, I don't know what else to say. I suggested a bunch of fan games, and you dislike every single one of them. What exactly do you want in a game? All I can suggest now is learn how to hack and make your own game. The resources are here, and there's plenty of people who would be willing to help. FireRed, in particular, happens to be a very easy base to work with (lots of tools and tutorials going around), and it's exactly what you'd want to build a Gen 2 sequel off of. Quote:
(Plus, there's also the hard reality that some characters, such as two certain female PCs and two certain E4 members, will probably never be seen or heard from in the main series games again, so for fans of those characters, ROM hacks are all they have.) Quote:
Either way, I found Origins to be dull and disappointing, in general, so I'd hate for it to be a "substitute" for a modern Gen 1. Quote:
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Well, if you want a modern Gen 1 right now, fandom has, yet again, come to the rescue. Lightning Yellow isn't actually a hack, but it's a full remake of Yellow in HGSS graphics with later pre/evolutions, Fairy Type, Megas, Day/Night, and Gen 6 battling mechanics. It's not done yet, but it's worth checking out. |
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I think you mean Fighting and how many things can learn Brick Break/Focus Punch. Steel is awful on the offensive, and speaking of this game Magneton is the only Steel-Type in Kanto (and it has no Steel damage moves until Gen 4). Along with that, Iron Tail>Steel Wing unless you're using a Scizor because it's rare that you'll even find a place to use it. Ghost does far more than Dark in FRLG as no Dark-Types until postgame (and even then it's not many), no Dark TMs that do damage, and the only two to make an appearance at all are Bite and Pursuit with only a couple that can make use of them at all due to Special (Psychic-types and trends of having Sp. Def, Pokemon like Gyarados with low Sp. Attack, etc.). Quote:
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FRLG badly needed a P/S Split. Quote:
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Also, I looked it up and I believe you can only get Shadow Ball from the Game Corner, so it's hard to get it. Quote:
The P/S split is the single most important breakthrough in the history of Pokémon. It should've been implemented in Ruby and Sapphire already. Quote:
Though the Jolteon problem was because GF made the asinine mistake of giving Eevee at L25, like in the originals, which meant you skipped the first elemental attack of the Kanto eeveelutions (Water Gun/Thundershock/Ember). In Red and Blue, they all learned the basic elemental attacks at L31, so it was much easier to train them (and Eevee is the only stone evolution where you must use the stone as soon as possible). Flareon was even worse because there are no easily accessible Fire-type TMs in FRLG until late in the game and in a TM-less run you're stuck with Fire Spin until L52 I think. Well, at least Flareon can use Normal-type moves to great effect, unlike the others, but Vaporeon gets Aurora Beam at L36 while Jolteon gets Pin Missile and Flareon gets Fire Spin. Well, I was on the VBA and probably should've cheated to get infinite TMs... I also didn't play it legit since I edited Graveler's evolution to be by happiness instead of trade. |
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TBH (it's a derail but I remembered it just now), while a game based on Mewtwo would be interesting, Mewtwo itself was never really meant to have any story around it. There are the bits at Pokémon Mansion, true, but those are enough. Mewtwo was meant as a reward for beating the game, nothing more. It was the strongest Pokémon, from the strongest type, which shows GF probably meant for Psychic to be powerful in 1st gen, probably not overpowered, but among the most powerful types, yes. And Mew is just an event Pokémon. It's not that important to the lore anymore, the proof being that Arceus surpassed it in terms of being the Creator, since, while Mew was said to be the originator of all Pokémon, that has effectively been retconned, as Arceus, being the Creator, can't have come from anything else.
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Since Team Rocket is always looking for the strongest Pokémon, it makes sense that they would try to look for something as powerful as Mewtwo. However, they didn't even try to catch the bird trio themselves, let alone Mewtwo which is even more powerful. They don't go for the beast trio or Ho-Oh/Lugia in GSC either, instead preferring to enhance ordinary Pokémon through science. This tells me that they probably didn't even know about the existence of these Pokémon, and, by extension, didn't believe the legends around them (which are reasonably well-known at least in Ecruteak City), which is weird as even Eusine knows about Suicune and actively pursues it. Mewtwo was clearly meant as a surprise and a reward for players. No need to have story around it, however interesting it may have been. You could've had Team Rocket looking for it, but the unawareness of these Pokémon is what makes Team Rocket unique, IMO. They probably wouldn't have succeeded in stopping Mewtwo anyway, as, even in the anime, it's Mewtwo who's in control of its situation always, never Team Rocket. As a TR fan, it's a bit difficult for me to admit it, but, compared to other, worse teams, Team Rocket are little more than petty criminals. Speaking of the birds, they're probably also meant as rewards, too. There's no reason to go to the Power Plant other than to catch Zapdos, for example. I personally wish that, instead of Mewtwo having an expanded role, Lugia's role as the master of the legendary birds was canonized. Right now, it's only mentioned in the anime. It's a bit sad that the Johto games never alluded to it. Quote:
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We're. . . Talking about Arceus now? I think I need to lie down. I'm going to grab myself a cup of coffee and no longer worry about the whole mess of "I like this, I hate that". Games were made, decisions were had, and it sure didn't involve any one of us.
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Would it have killed them to, at least, put the Move Relearner in Kanto? Quote:
You want a story-driven adventure game that doesn't revolve around collecting badges? There is such a game; it's just not Pokémon. Maybe, you should go find a fansite for that franchise instead of derailing and dragging down threads on Pokémon boards with your constant stream of negativity. |
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Delta Episode isn't GF doing anything better. Zinnia is getting flack from a lot of people. And it was basically GF saying that none of what happened in the 3rd to 5th gen really mattered, as it's very unlikely they'll go back to the original timeline after Mega Evolution was introduced. They simply can't. They effectively pulled a Dallas with it, and it sucked. Quote:
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If they did this, I'd expect Mewtwo to be a postgame thing. And, like you are more interested in Mewtwo, I'd rather GF expanded on the birds' story with Lugia, canonizing it. Still, story isn't the only problem of a Kanto sequel. The whole region would need an overhaul. Kanto is the least impressive region in terms of landmarks, since it's mostly industrial-based. And it's not so easy to include new areas in a region that's very, let's say, closely connected. They can't do anything to the west, for example, as Johto is in the west. Quote:
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However, the theory of Mew as an ancestor of all Pokémon has an important hole: it can't learn all the existing moves. Though it's possibly a limitation of the games rather than an oversight. Arceus is the most important Pokémon in existence, and hasn't starred in a game. There's no need for Mewtwo and Mew to star in a game either. Mewtwo has been in countless movies throughout the generations, it already has enough exposure. They always find a way to stuff Mewtwo in everything, and it gets tiresome, even though Mewtwo is one of my favorite legendaries. And we won't get a Mewtwo game in 6th gen when we can catch it in XY. |
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Lysandre: "So THIS is the mighty Xerneas/Yveltal?! I expected more from a Pokémon called a legend! You desire help from people? YOU need help from a human? For me, victory is using the ultimate weapon. In order to do that, I need to reclaim the Legendary Pokémon's power and send it to that weapon once again. I'll be taking the Legendary Pokémon back now! This time, I won't lose. I, too, shall use the Mega Ring and Mega Stone that you researched during your travels." Quote:
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When the time comes to revisit Sinnoh, then Game Freak will most likely do something new with Arceus. Meanwhile, it's already being featured in this year's movie, but I don't see you complaining about that. Quote:
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This thread might have just died out, and we all could've moved on if you didn't barge in here and start forcing your opinions onto people and picking fights. Why did you even come here, anyways? Thought you could get a few more punches in on me? I left Bulbagarden for many reasons, and you're one of them. |
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I wouldn't mind these remakes being considered the worst pair. That would mean the sequels just kept getting better and better.
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Fire red and leaf green did their minimum to be a remake. It stood more of a base for hackers for their roms, and I like that. So whether fire red and leaf green were "good" to you or not, they still made me happy. Even though not in the right intention.
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It's funny that Cinnabar is supposed to be a volcano yet GF decides to add yet another volcano in one of the Sevii Isles. The Sevii Isles were a nod to the anime, definitely, but they lacked gyms. |
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