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-   -   5th Gen Alder is the most forgettable champion (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=343577)

QueenNothing February 4th, 2015 9:08 PM

Alder is the most forgettable champion
 
This probably has something to do with the fact that you can't actually battle him until the post game.
He wasn't a very memorable character either, and was overshadowed by N as the champion (Who, IMO, was a much more interesting character)

Polar Spectrum February 4th, 2015 9:18 PM

I think Alder had some nice character to him, which I admired. I can't deny he was a bit weak compared to say, Steven Stone (<3) - but he had a nice smidge of depth I could appreciate while not being overwhelmed by.

I also liked to think his dead pokemon companion he rings the bell for in the Celestial Tower in Unova - is a volcarona. Because every time I faced him; that thing ate one rock attack and was never heard from again that battle.

Stormerbuzz35 February 4th, 2015 11:01 PM

He's no Lance or Steven, thats for sure. He didnt have that great of a speciality and he didn't really give me the impression that he was a powerful champion.

Murmansk February 7th, 2015 2:37 AM

Who? I don't even remember this person.

I actually found Cynthia to be waaay more memorable - and I never even fought her! (I beat Black and White though)

Gardevoir the Dragon Slayer February 7th, 2015 10:32 AM

I agree in appearance hes practically the same as Lysandre, a dude with lots of ginger hair.

Alfieri February 7th, 2015 11:13 AM

The only thing I didn't like about Alder was his battle theme.

Pendraflare February 7th, 2015 12:43 PM

Me? I liked Alder because he was the first Champion to actually have a shot at taking on the villain, even if it ended in disastrous defeat. Given that his Pokémon died, it had been a long time since he was in prime battling state which is why N defeated him, so I guess for that I can understand why people think he wasn't Champion material.

As for battling him? I honestly don't remember how hard he's been for me, it's been a long time (maybe even before B2W2 released in the US I think).

Hikamaru February 7th, 2015 2:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pendraflare (Post 8610193)
Me? I liked Alder because he was the first Champion to actually have a shot at taking on the villain, even if it ended in disastrous defeat. Given that his Pokémon died, it had been a long time since he was in prime battling state which is why N defeated him, so I guess for that I can understand why people think he wasn't Champion material.

You actually made a good point here. I liked that he wanted to try and stand up against the threat even if he ended up getting humiliated, and the fact he had a Pokemon of his die he took a long time to get back on his feet in terms of battling. It's probably due to this that many don't consider him to be a "real" champion, along with the fact his team is heavily weak to Rock and Fire moves, especially given it has half of it made up of Bug-types, one of which is his ace.

It's mainly his team having such easily exploitable weaknesses that he's not champion-worthy like what most people say, because that's coming from those who want a champion who is actually worth a challenge, like Cynthia.

Bellsprout February 7th, 2015 3:23 PM

I agree. I thought Alder was forgettable the moment I encountered him. His overall impression by design and character both miss a mark somewhere. I think the Elite four of that gen gave way more of an impression than he ever did which is saying a lot.

Psychic February 9th, 2015 10:57 PM

Huh, I never really thought about it before, but I'd have to agree. Alder isn't especially memorable, though at least you see him throughout the game iirc. That said, I don't think people considered Steven or Wallace to be especially memorable until ORAS. The most memorable champions are probably Cynthia and Lance, come to think of it.

~Psychic

blue February 10th, 2015 4:17 AM

I liked Alder, but he was definitely not one to stand out from the crowd. When you compare from the likes of Cynthia who seems to be much more of a staple to the franchise.

bobandbill February 10th, 2015 4:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pendraflare;8610193[B
]Me? I liked Alder because he was the first Champion to actually have a shot at taking on the villain[/B], even if it ended in disastrous defeat. Given that his Pokémon died, it had been a long time since he was in prime battling state which is why N defeated him, so I guess for that I can understand why people think he wasn't Champion material.

As for battling him? I honestly don't remember how hard he's been for me, it's been a long time (maybe even before B2W2 released in the US I think).

I think Lance back in gen 2 would like to say something about that. He did kinda ask you to help him out in raiding a TR base and had his Pokemon hyper beam a TR grunt. Steven also had some involvement, although less than these two, and Cynthia joined you in chasing Cryus and Giratina.

As for the topic, I... can't exactly agree. I certainly remember him well despite not battling him until post game. He had a big handle in the plot; he fought N, discussed with you what should be done when Plasma had a bigger impact once N got his legendary dragon Pokemon... and he also had some impact in Cheren's character development. While the lack of battling him at the end does set him apart from the others, that's not much of a factor for myself.

Really, if there's a champion that's forgettable, it's Diantha from XY. Every single other champion has been seen during the story sans Lance in FRLG (and again, he makes up for this in GSC/HGSS). Diantha... she appears exactly twice before the endgame. One is in a cafe, talking to Lysandre about acting and how she'd like to battle you. Then in Coumarine City she rambles a bit to you about legendary Pokemon and bonds. That's it.

No daring raids on TR bases, no letters delivering or battling Team Magma/Aqua for a [email protected] and etc, no helping a horde of Psyduck and talking about Sinnoh myths before jumping into an alternate dimensions, no engagement with one of your rivals and trying stop the team plasma takeover... just a bit of talk about being an actor and friendship. That's pretty darn forgettable, and disappointing, for a champion imo. She certainly never really did anything that had so to with the Team ___ of the region unlike the others, that's for sure.

CoffeeDrink February 12th, 2015 6:00 AM

I don't tend to think so. I don't particularly like Steven. It's also hard to forget the guy's wild style. Red hair and that garb get up put him on the list of some of the strangest fashions in the game. Alder might not be the most difficult or the best battle wise, but it seems that Alder had more importance in the games than some other champions. It probably is a bit jaded, my point of view, because I see Steven more like the rich, smart, this, that, 'perfect' champion which is just too sickly for me. How can you own a company, be a scientist, do all this research and still find time enough to train your Pokémon? He does have a full time job, right?

And just for the record, I like it when my champions try to smell me later.

cheekychu February 12th, 2015 2:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobandbill (Post 8614422)
Really, if there's a champion that's forgettable, it's Diantha from XY. Every single other champion has been seen during the story sans Lance in FRLG (and again, he makes up for this in GSC/HGSS). Diantha... she appears exactly twice before the endgame. One is in a cafe, talking to Lysandre about acting and how she'd like to battle you. Then in Coumarine City she rambles a bit to you about legendary Pokemon and bonds. That's it.

Couldn't agree with you more, Such a poor character in my opinion. Whatever about Adler, At least he looked somewhat cool.
Diantha was not only forgettable but also too "dainty" for my liking

kkk12 February 13th, 2015 6:14 AM

i think he is forgettable,not like the best champ ever cynthia(<3)
but i think he has a pretty deep story losing is pokemon and telling N how pokemon and people like each other

Sydian February 13th, 2015 12:35 PM

I like Alder as a Champion, honestly. He's not the most difficult Champion, far from it, but he has such a great presence in both Black and White and Black 2 and White 2, even though in the latter games, he's no longer the Champion. The fact he sticks around to give his words of wisdom in the sequel though cement him further as a great Champion, even though he no longer holds the title. I think he's a Champion that sticks out in character and dialog rather than suspense and the actual battle. I'm a big fan of his design, too. He looks like he's really one with his Pokemon and in touch with nature. He doesn't look like a badass like Lance or Cynthia or even fight like them, but I would go as far as to say he's got a better mind than those too and I enjoy his character much more.

I agree with B&B on Diantha being a very forgettable Champion. She shows up once, speaking to Lysandre, and then I'm pretty sure the next time you see her is the battle with her at the Pokemon League. There's not much character or development there. She doesn't do anything in the story and I feel they missed a huge opportunity with her character. In the first scene we get with her, she shows to be an interesting character and rejects Lysandre's ideas and she could have been a great asset at the end instead of your dumb rival. However, the fact that we don't see her again after that until the battle with her throws all of that in the garbage.

Hiatus March 8th, 2015 6:23 AM

I personally did like Alder.

When I hear the word "champion" when it comes to Pokémon and whatnot, it's tough for me to imagine someone young to take this spot (even though a few of them have already done it, such as Blue); Alder, primarily due to his seniority, seemed to have represented this position very well, at least from my perspective.

As far as story-line is concerned, I do have to agree that he hasn't made much of an involvement throughout games. If he were more out there--like how Steven and Wallace were in Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald, Omega Ruby, and Alpha Sapphire--I'm positive he would have been more memorable.

JJ Styles March 8th, 2015 10:08 AM

Adler had some missed potential in a gameplay standpoint. He could have been the Bug type champion in the core games (given that three of this mons in his lineup or part Bug, including his signature Volcarona, probably one of the standouts of this Gen). I think its too much curbstomping if one would say people remember Volcarona but NOT ADLER.

I think everyone has already posted their views and opinions about Adler as a character and I have nothing against it, on an off topic note, whoever mentioned Diantha as the more forgettable champion deserves a rep, which of course should be discussed in a different topic but that's just me.

jfuze174 March 8th, 2015 10:57 AM

The thing that made Alder forgettable was that there was way too many trainers that were stronger than him heck even his grandson threw legends at you

MegaRegisteel March 9th, 2015 6:48 AM

Alder... Who's he?

To be honest, N was cooler.

pkmin3033 March 9th, 2015 9:11 AM

Alder wasn't a BAD Champion - he was better than Iris and Diantha at least - but he wasn't particularly memorable either; he wasn't difficult, didn't have a huge impact on the plot, and his team is very...meh. I think he actually looks the part of a Champion more than any of the others, actually: he's an older, more experienced trainer who has earned his position through years of experience. Everyone else is in their teens or twenties and must have been a child prodigy or something to smash through Gym Leaders and Elite Four members twice (or even thrice) their age and experience.

Although I think part of the problem is that Cynthia is just so memorable; she makes everyone who has come after her forgettable. Iris being the Champion in B2/W2 wasn't particularly noteworthy, and Diantha didn't have much of a personality either. I think I'd probably be fonder of Alder if not for the fact that he followed on from the best Champion, in my opinion.

Nakala Pri March 15th, 2015 4:20 AM

He wasn't awesomely memorable but he was still okay. Especially in the manga, where he's by the river playing with Garbodor. ;~; THE FEELZ!!

I never actually battled him for some reason, but yeah, he didn't have much character but the character he did have was awesome! 8D

Jay March 15th, 2015 5:09 AM

Alder tried, bless him. You can see from his character that he worked hard to get to where he is... yes I'll admit he's too weak compared to most other champions, yes I'll admit he's more forgettable when compared to the impressive Lance, Cynthia, Steven Stone and even Blue/Green.

But Arceus damn it all... he was leagues better than Iris.

Alder at least felt like a champion. He was intelligent, wise and courageous enough to face team plasma even if he lost that battle. What the heck did Iris do? Why was she champion? I can't remember the reasoning but it surely wasn't anything impressive. You battle through the fairly epicly designed Unova elite 4 in B2W2 and then you go up the stairs to your final challenge and it's some freaking fairy tale princess wannabee with barely any personality traits other than "bubbly and fun weee!"

Champions are supposed to be imposing and someone worthy of respect. Look at Cynthia for a great female champion, imposing, powerful with a varied team. Someone you fight and actually respect as a worthy opponent. Even if Alder was easy to beat he was at a character that had a shred of impressiveness to him, his philosophical attitude and zen personality made him interesting to me.

Iris, on the other hand, is a little kid who's just as annoying in the games as she is in the anime... she barely surpasses diantha as a champion in my eyes.

In short, Alder is not the most memorable champion no... maybe he even is the most forgettable. But I'd rather be the most forgettable over the downright weakest (Diantha) or the most annoying. (Iris)

Orithan March 16th, 2015 2:59 PM

Character wise, Alder is probably one of the best even if he isn't very difficult in battle. It's been a long while since I played B/W, so I don't exactly remember him but he is a much better character than most of the more popular champions like Cynthia and Steven. He felt like an actual character with life to him than a bland Mary Sue that is perfect in every way (I'm looking at you, Cynthia and Steven). As much as I love Cynthia for being a challenge to fight, I do admit that she is a bland Mary Sue.

Nova March 21st, 2015 10:27 AM

Yeah, I have to admit, out of all the champions, he is the one I remember the least. (Though, to be honest, i'm pretty bad at remembering champions. The only one I can recall without fail is Lance. I barely remember Steven and Cynthia and I completely forgot Gary was the champion in the first game until recently.)

cream March 21st, 2015 7:50 PM

it's true that he's easily forgettable, but his encouter theme isn't. i love it!

Cerberus87 March 22nd, 2015 8:42 AM

Alder isn't forgettable. He's important to the storyline. What's forgettable is his Champion battle, but that's because N and Ghetsis steal his thunder.

Pendraflare March 22nd, 2015 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8667039)
Alder isn't forgettable. He's important to the storyline. What's forgettable is his Champion battle, but that's because N and Ghetsis steal his thunder.

This hit the nail on the head. Although Cynthia is still my favorite Champion, she does nothing productive against Team Galactic, and it's not helped by how she leaves a bunch of Psyduck to suffer chronic headaches. Granted she had presence, but Alder's was a lot more important. And like I said, it's been a long time since i've battled him in BW, so I can't really say much about that right now. :P But N and Ghetsis are ten times harder so there.

akirahojo March 22nd, 2015 1:07 PM

Alders an psuedo all bug-type push-over. He's terrible.

Nakasu March 22nd, 2015 6:13 PM

Alder forgettable? I think the only forgettable Champion id Diantha or what was the champion in FR/LG? Rival/ I don't know. but Alder is on the same line as Cynthia, characters important to the story. I see nothing forgettable about him. He's actually concerned with Team plasma. Did Diantha do anything? I don't know I don't remember cause she's forgettable. I can't forget Alder because i was in love with his battle theme. He's one of the most unique Champions next to Iris. N was too busy stealing the show for anyone to notice. That's why his champion battle was underwhelming when you fought him in round 2.

Gligar March 28th, 2015 10:40 AM

Adler was surely not your everyday champion, but he sure was a great role model. I admired him as a character while I played Black. He sure was a powerful trainer though. And plus, I liked how gamefreak designed him. He was the coolest looking champion of all time. (Actually when I think about it, Lance was pretty cool too.)


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