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History Repeating?
Back when the original Ruby and Sapphire games came out, fans criticized them for the removal of certain features and the inability to trade in their Pokémon from their GB games onto the new GBA games. This gave Gen 3 the reputation as the overall worst of the series, having to fail to surpass the sales of the first two generations. Now its remakes, Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, are out, and it looks like the same thing is happening within the fandom, only this time the criticism was towards the removal of character customization from XY and Battle Frontier from Emerald, as well as how it's "too easy," even though the difficulty is basically the same as the originals, which the Hoenn fans enjoyed when they were kids themselves. Because of these cons, fans from various forums are calling ORAS atrocious and the downfall of the Pokémon franchise. It feels like Gen 3 will indeed forever be known as the worst of the series, but what baffles me is that its overall sales are getting close to XY's sales despite the fans' constant bashing towards the remakes. Has anyone else notice this, and are they justified or just mere exaggerations?
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I haven't really heard ANY negative backlash towards ORAS like this...this post is the first I've heard it. I personally NEVER had any negative feelings towards Hoenn. Yeah I missed character customization, but really, I never cared about compatibility between gen 1 and 2 and Hoenn. It does feel "too easy" in a way, however, I attribute this mostly to Exp share and moveset changes. Movesets in Gen 3 Hoenn were ALOT worse than they are in Gen 6 Hoenn. Personally, ORAS are my favorite Pokemon games, and Ruby/Sapphire are probably the games that have the most nostalgic value for me.
Before you get on me for it, I did play Gen 1 and Gen 2 prior to Gen 3's release. I didn't care at all about trading between the Generations. When I found out there was postgame that allowed you to trade between Ruby/Sapphire and FireRed/LeafGreen, I was celebrating it because it felt like a nice bonus. Game Freak doesn't HAVE to include all the features in all the games. When they bring back a popular feature, we should be celebrating its inclusion, not complaining whenever its absent. Try to have a more positive outlook. :) |
The hate comes from mostly R/S/E fanboys who wanted the remakes to be little more than a port of their nostalgic games to Gen VI plus Battle Frontier and their favorite pokemon getting megas *cough*Milotic and Flygon*cough* and those who want something groundbreaking every title, whereas the bulk of the sales aside from those people I imagine comes from those never played the originals like myself. That's my theory anyway.
I do however think that Pokemon is in some danger of dying considering it has suffered two consecutive generations of decline, but that is for another topic. |
Honestly, who cares?
Fans will complain about anything. The games are a great remake. They stay true to the Hoenn formula and expand upon the story and flesh out characters like Wally and May. Ruby and Sapphire got backlash because older fans couldn't use their Game Boy Pokemon anymore. People complain about Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire because of no battle frontier and lack of trainer customization. People still complain about no Pokemon following you so with that in mind, if someone complains about the series, ignore it. |
For me it's not really an issue, aslong as I'm enjoying playing the games then I'm happy with that. I'll be honest though I haven't heard much negativity surrounding ORAS yet, if anything the reception has been generally positive. The sales figure for the games has already surpassed 9 million, and that's only within 3 months of being on sale.
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If I want to be honest, I actually view ORAS as a prettied up version of the original RSE. Aside from plotline, the whole place looks like a pure C+P of the original Hoenn in terms of looks and locations. FRLG gets the Sevii Isles, HGSS gets a new Safari Zone and the Pokeathlon and ORAS? Nothing. A whole big cauldron of nothing. No Battle Frontiers, no extra features, and really, the only new feature we got was the Soaring in the Sky feature.
And honestly, that's not even a new thing in Pokemon. We got to fly on the Lati twins at Pokemon Rangers: Guardian Signs. It didn't really hyped me up when the feature was announced, 'cause I've done it before. It's not that special. And also, this is coming from someone whose first game is Sapphire. It feels more like playing RSE all over again, this time with the updated mechanics after Gen 3. Nothing else really special. It kinda disappointed me. I'd play XY all over again than ORAS tbh. |
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I would've liked real new areas though. Pinkie's post (and his vm to me) are also the first time I hear negative feedback like this. Most of the complaints are due to lack of frontier or any sort of good post Delta Episode stuff. |
I don't really see anything bad with OR/AS because they patched up most issues that happened in the original games, such as movesets, along with easier ways to level up, even if the new Exp. Share eliminates any form of challenge if left on too offten. I didn't mind lack of trainer customization (I already love May's design anyway) or no Battle Frontier, but I do feel for those who did like those features even if there was a statement on Reddit explaining the axing of the Frontier.
Also, these games are doing way better sales-wise than the previous remakes, but then we have the end-of-year holiday season factoring in there. The Delta Episode was also something new in terms of postgame content, because it was an entirely extra story (albeit short) and while soaring on Latias/Latios is almost like what you did flying around with them in Pokemon Ranger: Guardian Signs it still allows you to find and catch legendaries, and a few non-Hoenn Pokemon as well. DexNav was also revolutionary, as well as the ability to now fly to anywhere, including routes. The reason why DexNav is something great about this game that I hope doesn't disappear in the next game is because it made finding hidden abilities and good IV'd Pokemon easier, which is a blessing to competitive players. |
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The only complaint I've seen was this: 3/10 too much water I think Nintendo has been getting better making the stories ever since BW. XY was fairly solid. I don't like ORAS's story, because I feel like it takes too long for it to develop. With that being said, the Delta Episode was the best thing they've ever done story-wise too. My wish would be for there to be an episode on every single legendary there is. Because I feel like that's been the weakest part in the franchise as far as story telling goes. There will be one plot throughout the game just about the game's respective main legendary. Then nothing about any of the others you can catch. So I think the Delta Episode was a great step in the right direction. We can only hope they build on that. XY made online features completely useable and easy to access. The best part was the character customization just because it feels more rpg like. Everyone can have their own unique identity which is special because all of us are different to begin with. That was such a great feature. I'll let it pass that it didn't happen in ORAS because it is a remake ultimately... That dexnav feature was the best addition overall. Now you have some control as to what you actually can look for. There is just waaaayy too much to analyze. @[email protected] |
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warning I'm about to rant
ORAS made me realize that the Pokemon fanbase is really bad in general. It's actually related to the new Megas and not to the battle frontier. Back when GameFreak announced that Gen 3 was going to have remakes, everyone was so excited, like I remember going on Pokemon Showdown and see lots of joke teams that featured 6 pokemon with Celebrate as their only move and their own alt being something such as "HOENN CONFIRMED" or "GEN 3 CONFIRMED". But now that ORAS is out everyone is complaining. "WHY DID BEEDRILL, PIDGEOT AND GLALIE GET MEGAS??? WHY AUDINO, WHY SLOWBRO, WHY CAMERUPT, WHY FUCKING LOPUNNY OF ALL THINGS?! WHERE'S MY MEGA FLYGON AND MEGA MILOTIC???" Yeah. You'll see crap like this on 4chan, Reddit, GameFAQs as well as the comments to the official Pokemon videos. I know Pokemon is supposed to be for kids, but I bet most of the users who complained were at least 15. They need to thank GF for actually giving them a goddamn remake and not to act like the German kid we all know and love because they didn't get Mega Flygon. GF knows what's doing and gave mega evolutions both to fan favourites (looking at you, Charizard, Mewtwo, Lucario and Blastoise) AND to Pokemon that actually needed them, such as Beedrill, Glalie and Pidgeot. And honestly, they care about you. You wanted Mega Salamence and Mega Metagross? They gave you Mega Salamence and Mega Metagross. You wanted a Dragon/Fairy Mega Altaria? They gave you a Dragon/Fairy Mega Altaria. But all the Pokemon fanbase cares about is "WHY WATER/DARK MEGA GYARA, WHY DID GLALIE GET A MEGA AND NOT FROSLASS, HOW COME MEGA FLYGON/MILOTIC IS NOT A THING YET." I even saw some extremist comments such as "I'm done with Pokemon if they don't show us Mega Flygon" or "If Blissey gets a mega I'm gonna quit this game". Not kidding. Not to mention everytime a powerful Pokemon (Salamence) gets a mega, they scream "WHY DO YOU MAKE OP POKEMON EVEN MORE OP" and when a Pokemon such as Audino gets a mega, they go "WHY FUCKING AUDINO OF ALL THINGS VOLCARONA NEEDS A FUCKING MEGA". |
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Not saying that the entirety of any fanbase is like that, but there's a sizeable chunk of people like that in most of 'em. I think that people don't really know exactly what it is they want sometimes. |
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Today people complain about how horrible the games have become and tomorrow they'll buy the new games, anyway. You know, there are some people who can only show appreciation by complaining about what they love and it's not, that Pokemon is the only franchise that's getting that treatment, either.
I say: let the sales decide how good the games are, because numbers don't care about opinions. Quote:
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You know someone made an excellent point in that the move types were different in the original games than they were currently and I completely forgot about that. So in that respect, yes, I would say the current gen IS easier than the originals because in the originals there were SO many pokemon can couldn't learn STAB attacks because they were physical attackers but all their STAB movesets were special and vice versa. Back then Every fire, Water, Electric, Grass, Ice, Psychic, Dragon and Dark type move was special and every normal, fighting, poison, ground, flying, bug, rock, ghost and steel type move was physical, so there were quite a few pokemon that never got that bonus 50% damage from their movesets so a lot of pokemon back then may have had a harder time going through the game than they do now.
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Though the enemy's mons would also have had a stab issue, for example Archie's Sharpedo didn't get stab that matches it's better offensive stat as both it's types were special (I also don't think it had any good moves that match it's type type...can't quite recall).
Who knows perhaps three gens from now everyone will be asking for Hoenn re-remakes like Kanto fans are now...though perhaps ORAS will be seen in the same light as the originals were during Gen V (and XY). |
Wait a minute. Let me see if i'm getting this straight.
First in 2003 people hated Ruby and Sapphire then mostly for the fact that it had no backwards compatibility, then in 2011 when Black and White were mainstream people started loving Ruby and Sapphire, and now they call these games the worst in the series? This is news to me, so no, i'm not getting it. Although if nothing else, I think Junichi Masuda's excuse for not putting the Frontier and character customization in the game (and a Challenge Mode for that matter) is one thing that really pissed people off. |
Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire are re-makes of Ruby/Sapphire and Emerald, so what was in them games is pretty much going to be the same in ORAS. So with character customization in XY it's not going to be put into ORAS
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^ That's kind of a valid point. In thinking about it I doubt that they would want to redesign the original characters out of the outfits they already had. With XY being new games and all it's understandable and hopefully for future games, but not in full-fledged remakes.
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To be honest, I do miss the character customization feature from X and Y. I'm not too fond of Brendan's outfit but I can deal sheesh.
As for the games being too easy, that's a really naive complaint. The player's choices effect that more than the AI. The Exp. Share is probably the most significant factor affecting my gameplay personally because it quite a bit overtrained me for all the gyms from the point I'd received it forward as I'd leave it on. A Pokemon that out levels a gym leader's or any trainer's for that matter is not going to have too hard a time even with a type disadvantage but type still plays such a role that a single pokemon can be the difference between an easy and a difficult experience. Let's examine my Wattson battle in Alpha Sapphire as an example. Wattson's entire team here has a secondary type of Steel, I'd begun with Torchic, a fire type which evolves with fighting as a secondary type both type advantages to steel. Once again the Exp. Share had me arriving in Mauville about two levels above his strongest Pokemon, as a result of all three of these factors I'd taken his entire team out in under five moves with my Cumbuskin alone. If I'd done a few things differently I can imagine it being a bit more of a difficult battle. Because the Torchic line is pretty useless I have a feeling my Cumbuskin would have fallen very behind in level had I not had that Exp. Share turned on or not received it at all. Just as out levelling your opponent can cancel out a type advantage so is true the vise-versa, an under-leveled Pokemon can also cancel out the opponent's type disadvantage. If I'd played with the same team but had chosen to begin with Treeko, even with the use of the experience share to over level me I might have once again been in trouble because said team did not really have an electric or steel strength and to ice the cake had a fair bit of electric weakness. I could, however, have possibly mimicked my real experience in the hypothetical Treeko scenario with the choice to capture and train a geodude which is immune to electricity. Considering, however that rock is weak to steel that geodude might have still failed had I not used the Exp. Share to over level it. Looking at Liza and Tate now, again my team was over-levelled and I conquered their rock weaknesses rather than psychic with my Superior and Sharpedo. There can be cases of poor execution on the AI's part, I'll admit. Flannery may have had a chance against my over leveled Seaking had she not started out each of her Pokemon using Sunny Day (though not too likely since Princess took them each out with one Water Pulse/Waterfall hehe) and moving down a generation to Soul Silver/Heart Gold Whitney's changed tactic to spamming Stomp instead of Rollout caused her to do a fair bit less damage. With some moves they use it's a case of rolling the dice though. The first time I battled Whitney in SS she never once used Milk Drink but the second time I did when I restarted the game she did once, maybe twice (it's been a while) and might have even used super potions which totally didn't happen the first time. This also leads me to another example of how different choices in Pokemon used can change the experience, the second SS Whitney battle was a bit more daunting than the first without an Impish quagsire to take all the stomps with barely a dent. In the end it's still all about choices even when the AI changes things up on you and with remakes like AS/OR the fact that we know what to expect can also effect those choices or even our perception of the battles. Age can also be a factor because over the years and with each new generation release you learn more. Honestly, it wasn't until I was training a swellow around route 111 where lots of Machop dwell that I discovered by accident that flying moves are super effective against fighting. type Pokemon. Basically, the player makes it easy NOT the developers. |
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