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-   -   6th Gen History Repeating? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=343675)

Altairis February 16th, 2015 9:04 PM

Well, I guess it can be said this because after a while the same formula DOES get old, even if ORAS specifically wasn't designed to bring many new things to the table. At its core, the game is basically is the same as every other Pokemon game, with some shiny new features. I really like several of the ORAS-specific features, such as the DexNav and Soaring, but given Nintendo's pattern of keeping larger features specific to the game they were introduced in (such as walking Pokemon in HGSS, character customization in XY, with the exception of Pokemon Amie), it's likely that these features won't be in the next Pokemon game. I mean, even if these WERE in the next game, it would just become repetitive and everything would be the same except for a few small characters, plot, and location.

Don't get me wrong, I love ORAS. But maybe the sales are just falling because the basics are the same: 8 gyms, elite four, only some post game. In the end, though, Pokemon will still get money regardless of how "good" the games actually are.

Pendraflare February 17th, 2015 12:39 PM

That's basically true - different games have different features, so it's not likely that we're going to get much of the same small side things in more than one game a lot of the time. If they were, it probably would kill the uniqueness of some of them.

lexxiel February 17th, 2015 3:25 PM

To be honest i stopped playing pokemon back in the gold/silver for the game boy color and recently came back to ORAS and I have to say i enjoyed it greatly, I picked up a copy of X and have started playing that as well but I feel i enjoyed playing Alpha saphire more so i might have to give x more time but i can put Alpha down XD

Pepperton February 17th, 2015 4:56 PM

I haven't even heard that many people bashing the remakes, to be quite honest. In my own opinion, though, ORAS was a great pair of games that lived up to my expectations, definitely. I think a lot of people had their expectations very high, and were a bit disappointing to see the lack of changes from the originals, which bugs me because it is a remake, by name, and should follow the originals as much as possible. The difficulty didn't affect me, even as someone who plays competitively. Steven was extremely hard to take down, and I had EXP Share on the whole game.

Birthday Thunder February 17th, 2015 5:38 PM

ORAS was to me, the worst pokemon games to date. For remakes of Ruby and Sapphire, they were fine but almost every new feature fell short.

1. Secret Bases - I mean, what the heck were they thinking by making the maximum amount of pokemon you could have on your team three?!! Oh and don't even get me started on the whole "you can make your own gym with other trainers in it and you as a gym leader! BUT we're going to make their teams rattatas, pidgeys and caterpies!! Not the teams you want to make your gym theme complete with. Such a wasted potential there and downright lie about what could have made secret bases the best thing in the game. I'm still fuming about that all these months later.

2. No Battle Frontier - This was the biggest disappointment for so many fans of emerald's battle frontier. According to an interview I read with one of the creators of the game, the only reason they didn't put it in was because new and inexperienced players wouldn't be able to beat it or something like that. Also something about strategies needed for each facility would be too complicated. Please, what a lazy cop-out to not put anything extra into the postgame.

3. Soaring - BORING (see what I did there?)

4. No rematches with the gym leaders - Let's allow you to re-battle every trainer except the gym leaders. Sounds like a great idea! You know, they're the strongest people aside from the elite 4, but they aren't really all that important to the story for a simple rematch.

Honestly, I would list more, but I'm fearful of all the game's defenders starting a war with me over my opinions. I will say, dex nav is awesome!

giradialkia February 17th, 2015 6:15 PM

I thought I'd posted in this thread before, but I guess not. So I'll do so now! :)

All in all, there are a lot of factors new to ORAS that change things up significantly, even though it stays reasonably true to the original games. Honestly though, I think they've done very, very well with the re-introduction of Hoenn, and that it absolutely won't follow in the footsteps in the originals as 'the worst (or at least, the least successful) generation of games'.

Some of the things introduced, such as Mega Evolution and the renewed EXP share, definitely changed the way the game was played. There's no way around saying that the EXP Share made it substantially easier - I turned it off periodically throughout the game, and managed to be on a par with Steven by the end of the game, but it was hard to find a medium! When it was on, I'd become overlevelled before too long, and while it was off, I'd fall a bit short. It definitely taught me how to better (more enjoyably) utilise the new mechanics of the EXP share.

That said, there are some features omitted from ORAS that did leave me a little disappointed, such as the lack of an ability to customise your character. Plenty of people (even in this thread) have reasonably argued that the feature was present in XY because they were new games, but even so, I would've liked to at least be able to change the CLOTHES of my character, if not the hairstyle, etc. Although it did bring me back into that feeling I love from Pokémon games, setting up a canon, and whatnot.

I do agree with points 2 and 4 raised by Birthday Thunder above, though; people have argued the lack of a Battle Frontier with "It wasn't in the original games, so it won't be in the remakes.", and I honestly don't know what those people are thinking. To HELL with that! There are plenty of things that weren't in the originals - one of the major things wrong with FRLG was sticking with that sentiment, omitting features that could simply add to the renewed world. If ORAS left out Mega Evolution throughout the story, it would've been quite boring. But look what they did! They introduced it, and not only that, gave you access to a Lati mid-story. That was great!
I mean, the Battle Resort Island is nice and all, but the fact that it's still a Battle Maison sorta bugs me a bit. I would've liked it to be a Battle Tower again, although to be quite fair, I see why that's hard to reintroduce. The Maison made it super fast to blast through loads of battles, quitting whenever you want. A tower makes it harder, and would require more cutscenes and so on. Though even with all this in mind, I still would've loved to have played through a modernised Battle Frontier. It was a really fun post-game feature of Hoenn's, so it's a shame they left it out.

As well as that, the rematch feature of the Pokénav+ was greeeeeeeeat, but the fact that they plain just didn't let you rematch the gym leaders also sucked. Sure, another feature introduced in Emerald, but one that positively influenced the game, literally no reason to leave it out in ORAS (HGSS did it, even though it wasn't in the originals, so nobody start with that! :P).

Despite its few lackings, I really think ORAS pulled out all the stops, or at least most of them, and was a great playing experience. I've been tempted to get AS just so I can play the story mode a couple more times!

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire February 17th, 2015 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giradialkia (Post 8622696)
I thought I'd posted in this thread before, but I guess not. So I'll do so now! :)

All in all, there are a lot of factors new to ORAS that change things up significantly, even though it stays reasonably true to the original games. Honestly though, I think they've done very, very well with the re-introduction of Hoenn, and that it absolutely won't follow in the footsteps in the originals as 'the worst (or at least, the least successful) generation of games'.

Some of the things introduced, such as Mega Evolution and the renewed EXP share, definitely changed the way the game was played. There's no way around saying that the EXP Share made it substantially easier - I turned it off periodically throughout the game, and managed to be on a par with Steven by the end of the game, but it was hard to find a medium! When it was on, I'd become overlevelled before too long, and while it was off, I'd fall a bit short. It definitely taught me how to better (more enjoyably) utilise the new mechanics of the EXP share.

That said, there are some features omitted from ORAS that did leave me a little disappointed, such as the lack of an ability to customise your character. Plenty of people (even in this thread) have reasonably argued that the feature was present in XY because they were new games, but even so, I would've liked to at least be able to change the CLOTHES of my character, if not the hairstyle, etc. Although it did bring me back into that feeling I love from Pokémon games, setting up a canon, and whatnot.

I do agree with points 2 and 4 raised by Birthday Thunder above, though; people have argued the lack of a Battle Frontier with "It wasn't in the original games, so it won't be in the remakes.", and I honestly don't know what those people are thinking. To HELL with that! There are plenty of things that weren't in the originals - one of the major things wrong with FRLG was sticking with that sentiment, omitting features that could simply add to the renewed world. If ORAS left out Mega Evolution throughout the story, it would've been quite boring. But look what they did! They introduced it, and not only that, gave you access to a Lati mid-story. That was great!
I mean, the Battle Resort Island is nice and all, but the fact that it's still a Battle Maison sorta bugs me a bit. I would've liked it to be a Battle Tower again, although to be quite fair, I see why that's hard to reintroduce. The Maison made it super fast to blast through loads of battles, quitting whenever you want. A tower makes it harder, and would require more cutscenes and so on. Though even with all this in mind, I still would've loved to have played through a modernised Battle Frontier. It was a really fun post-game feature of Hoenn's, so it's a shame they left it out.

As well as that, the rematch feature of the Pokénav+ was greeeeeeeeat, but the fact that they plain just didn't let you rematch the gym leaders also sucked. Sure, another feature introduced in Emerald, but one that positively influenced the game, literally no reason to leave it out in ORAS (HGSS did it, even though it wasn't in the originals, so nobody start with that! :P).

Despite its few lackings, I really think ORAS pulled out all the stops, or at least most of them, and was a great playing experience. I've been tempted to get AS just so I can play the story mode a couple more times!

ORAS missing the BF and lacking rematches sure looks bad when you compare it to what the previous remake pair had...HGSS had the Battle Tower which was in Crystal only plus the rest of the Pt BF, also it had rematches against the gym leaders. I must say it's quite sad that only one out of the three remake pairs thus far have had rematches against gym leaders...ORAS seems to taunt the player though with those things as Wallace says he'll like to battle the player again if you talk to him after defeating the league (and I think DE too), and Brawly also mentions getting stronger. Then there's the BF being built and how Scott is already done recruiting the BFB with Lucy being the last one.

Pinkie-Dawn March 9th, 2015 8:22 AM

So Bulbapedia has posted an article regarding the criticisms of ORAS, and I thought I would like to share it with you guys: http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Omega_Ruby_and_Alpha_Sapphire:_A_retrospective_review

Palkia March 11th, 2015 1:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birthday Thunder (Post 8622670)
ORAS was to me, the worst pokemon games to date.

The entirety of Gen V waves hi.

OR/AS were the best in the series so far, although the lack of battle frontier was annoying and the mega evolutions were shoehorned into the game awkwardly. I think the real issue what that HG/SS felt like they had all the features of Crystal just split into two games. Meanwhile OR/AS are much more based on R/S than E. Some of the touches that made emerald really special are absent, although all the new features that subsequent games past emerald brought make it a more even, if less cohesive, experience. Really ORAS feels like a real follow up to X/Y rather than a R/S remake, basically using the same wireframe but building the game from the ground up. It really feels like the first remake that doesn't replace the original for better or worse in my eyes.

Candy March 12th, 2015 8:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn (Post 8648447)
So Bulbapedia has posted an article regarding the criticisms of ORAS, and I thought I would like to share it with you guys: http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Omega_Ruby_and_Alpha_Sapphire:_A_retrospective_review

It's funnt since my opinion on ORAS is practically the same as the one who made the article: the feeling that ORAS feels more like a remake than an updated remake of RSE. As my post on this thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illusione-Tempus (Post 8610016)
If I want to be honest, I actually view ORAS as a prettied up version of the original RSE. Aside from plotline, the whole place looks like a pure C+P of the original Hoenn in terms of looks and locations. FRLG gets the Sevii Isles, HGSS gets a new Safari Zone and the Pokeathlon and ORAS? Nothing. A whole big cauldron of nothing. No Battle Frontiers, no extra features, and really, the only new feature we got was the Soaring in the Sky feature


Sun March 12th, 2015 3:11 PM

The Pokémon main series formula: New region, new Pokémon, 8 badges, E4 and a champion, crime syndicate team.

I got no problem with them, in fact I enjoy it a lot. I love how they can make a new plot while blending in the formula. :)

As for the games becoming more easier? That was actually verified by one of the Game Freak staff (go Google the interview article yourself). The reason for making the games easier because Pokémon is facing more and more challenges nowadays, challenges including from fellow handheld Nintendo games to free cellphone/tablet games etc. Hence the introduction of Horde Encounters and Super Training for easier EV training, Friend Safari and PokeNav encounter, easier breeding mechanics (Destiny Knot-breeding, female Pokémon being able to pass egg moves, male Pokémon passing HAs, etc.), easy level up techniques: instant rematch from Trainers Eye in OrAs/Battle Chateau in XY, easier access to Lucky Eggs and the change with Exp. Share. And more. So the games are made easier to attract more casual players, more diverse group ages.

Hikamaru March 12th, 2015 7:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn (Post 8648447)
So Bulbapedia has posted an article regarding the criticisms of ORAS, and I thought I would like to share it with you guys: http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Omega_Ruby_and_Alpha_Sapphire:_A_retrospective_review

I did a read of that piece by MAGNEDETH, and I do sorta agree with his statement about the water routes being one of the cons with Hoenn. There were like so many of them and they always had the same Pokemon, plus it was easy to get lost (I remember the hell that was my original Ruby playthrough) but thankfully the AreaNav and lowered encounter rate makes it less of a hassle now.

Team Magma/Aqua's appearances were also not very well fleshed out, again another thing fixed up by the remakes. Also, while Hoenn had its negative things it did have its positives, such as the introduction of natures, abilities and a revamped EV system helped build the competitive scene as it's seen today.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 12th, 2015 8:53 PM

They should've added more water mons to the originals...From Gen I-IV there were issues with species per type diversity. Well Gen I-II's main issue in that regard is that they didn't make many dragons and ghosts... Gen III-IV was not including enough ice, and fire types (among others) from past gens...

KillerTyphlosion March 13th, 2015 12:24 AM

Oras did a lot of good and amazing things. I mean the intro was so awesome. The dexnav was cool and really usefull. But all these changes makes the game to easy at some point. Even if you don't ev train, use exp share or rebattle trainers every 5 seconds. Most of my pokémon levels were close to steven's levels while I had turned off exp share and I only rebattled the first 2 rich kids for a bit of money. In the originals my pokémons levels were mostly of the time below level 50 when reaching the e4.

Not to mention you just get latios/latias handed out to you. That is just stupid and not only that you get his mega right away. The lati's should have remained post-game and make a side quest to get the mega stone and the flute so you can soar with him. But cathing the lati's should have remained the same as in the originals.
And it would be cool if you could soar with every pokémon that knows fly. Just make it a big black bird or something but some things can only be reached with the lati's.

No battle frontier also sucks. I was really looking forward for the battle frontier and was really dissapointed by this.

The fact that oras brought a lot of new features to the table was good. Most noteable is flying to every route and the dex nav. But Compared to HG/SS I think they could have done better. The only thing I didn't like in hg/ss is that red had lapras in stead of espeon. And that you couldn't get the elemental punches early. Oras new features are really good but I still find the game lacking and I hope if they ever remake gen 4 they remake everything and don't screw something up.

Sun March 13th, 2015 9:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8653180)
They should've added more water mons to the originals...From Gen I-IV there were issues with species per type diversity. Well Gen I-II's main issue in that regard is that they didn't make many dragons and ghosts... Gen III-IV was not including enough ice, and fire types (among others) from past gens...

As the captain of PC Water-type club myself, I say the amount of Water-type in Hoenn is more than enough. :)

The lack of Ice-type is understandable considering Hoenn's a tropical region. It's just weird to see the likes of Dewgong, Sneasel, Cloyster, etc. getting stuffed in that Shoal Cave. Fire-types were on the right amount.

Pinkie-Dawn March 13th, 2015 9:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makoto Tachibana (Post 8653718)
As the captain of PC Water-type club myself, I say the amount of Water-type in Hoenn is more than enough. :)

The lack of Ice-type is understandable considering Hoenn's a tropical region. It's just weird to see the likes of Dewgong, Sneasel, Cloyster, etc. getting stuffed in that Shoal Cave. Fire-types were on the right amount.

Then what was Game Freak thinking when they made one of the Elite 4 members an Ice Specialist despite Hoenn only having the Spheal line and Snorunt line (Regice is a legendary)? There's a reason why type diversity is the most important aspect of the games. They could easily made her into a Grass specialist with Roselia, Bellossom, Tropius, Ludicolo, and Breloom in the originals (with Roselia becoming a Roserade for ORAS), since there's plenty of Grass types in Hoenn.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 14th, 2015 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn (Post 8653733)
Then what was Game Freak thinking when they made one of the Elite 4 members an Ice Specialist despite Hoenn only having the Spheal line and Snorunt line (Regice is a legendary)? There's a reason why type diversity is the most important aspect of the games. They could easily made her into a Grass specialist with Roselia, Bellossom, Tropius, Ludicolo, and Breloom in the originals (with Roselia becoming a Roserade for ORAS), since there's plenty of Grass types in Hoenn.

Yeah...GF made lots of dumb mistakes...like they should've made Agatha a Poison specialist over a ghost specialist. Also Lance should've been a Flying over a Dragon specialist...thing is that their original teams would have been 100 percent of those specialties...

PlayRoughh March 14th, 2015 1:40 PM

yeah i honestly find it so weird that they removed customization?!? it better be back in the next games lol

BettyNewbie March 14th, 2015 2:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn (Post 8653733)
Then what was Game Freak thinking when they made one of the Elite 4 members an Ice Specialist despite Hoenn only having the Spheal line and Snorunt line (Regice is a legendary)? There's a reason why type diversity is the most important aspect of the games. They could easily made her into a Grass specialist with Roselia, Bellossom, Tropius, Ludicolo, and Breloom in the originals (with Roselia becoming a Roserade for ORAS), since there's plenty of Grass types in Hoenn.

GF hasn't always thought things through the best when it comes to type specialists, especially E4 members. (Got a region that only has two fully-evolved Fire types? Let's have a Fire E4 member!) It wasn't until the Unova games (particularly, B2W2) that we even got a Dex that represented all types relatively equally, after all, and Gym Leaders and E4 members have always been an area where the "story" aspect was prioritized over gameplay, for better or worse.

(That is how we ended up with so many Dragon specialists that didn't have full teams or even actual Dragon types, for example. Storywise, Dragons are supposed to be rare, so there are fewer of them, but gameplay-wise, that leads to things like Lance having to fill space with dupe Dragonairs... Or, with dupe Dragonites.)

Everything about the Hoenn E4, in general, was poorly thought-out, though. They were our first non-Indigo E4, and yet, they all used types that Indigo Elites had previously used, as if they were meant to be substitutes for them in the same way that Beautifly was meant to be a substitute for Butterfree. (Drake was even the 4th one, just like Lance!)

Oh, why couldn't have Glacia been a Grass specialist, instead? We also had enough for a Ground E4 as well. Even better, why not have the Hoenn E4 do something else, like have color-based teams or dual-specialities (possibly even in double battle form)? Since they were the first non-Indigo E4, the Hoenn Elites would've been a perfect opportunity to mix things up and do something a little different with the League.

Cerberus87 March 14th, 2015 4:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 8655523)
Yeah...GF made lots of dumb mistakes...like they should've made Agatha a Poison specialist over a ghost specialist. Also Lance should've been a Flying over a Dragon specialist...thing is that their original teams would have been 100 percent of those specialties...

Two Gengars are harder than everything Poison-type you could throw at the player in RBY, plus Koga was that gen's Poison specialist.

Of course, in GSC you have dupes, but GSC has more specialists than types, and no Ground-type specialist. In general the games without two regions don't have dupes (which is somewhat of a drawback of GSC).

adameastment March 14th, 2015 4:39 PM

I don't like threads like this, RSE and now ORAS are quite honestly - my favourite games to date. I love everything about them, even when I sold my Gameboy Advance and games, I kept the Pokemon Games just to continue playing them. I was literally in it for a generation (picking up Gold at one point) then leaving the Pokéfandom :P.

When playing XY/ORAS for the first time, being able to use an EXP share that will apply to all members rather than just the first was a massive improvement. For the first time playing a Pokemon game I was able to built an entirely balanced team and actually properly get to know lots of different Pokemon. In that respect, I think that ORAS (and by extension XY) have done a great deal to improve the enjoyment of the game for those players who either don't have a huge amount of time or (like me) find it a monotonous task and would rather just be able to switch between different pokes. I loaded my original Ruby game the other day and attempted Norman's gym, couldn't beat him with my Combusken and that was my only real choice to use - frustrating.

I do agree that occasionally Game Freak can make things a little odd, like has been mentioned the E4 was almost exactly the same in terms of typings and that kinda thing. Which I agree was a bit odd considering the Pokes available within game, and it seemed to be overlooked when you actually stop and think about it.

But, I do think that both times the games have been released, they've added elements that allow for people to enjoy the game more. RSE had it in better colour than the GBC, it introduced new stuff like better berries, contests, different elements like the Pokemon being able to look cool and that kind of thing. In ORAS, we've got the DexNav allowing the playing to gain egg moves on Pokemon and being able to find Pokes with their hidden ability, ultimately allowing more variation within teams, and once the players knew what they were doing allow them to build more complex and diverse teams.

The biggest issue I have, is that you effectively need 2 games of the 4 currently released this generation and then trade to get the Pokemon you need. I know this has basically been the case since DPPl, but when every generation's box legends and side legends can be obtained with 2 games (using the GTS to get their opposites) or using Bank and owning both games it does make it a bit easier to complete the pokedex. It makes you question Game Freak's reasoning for it, I know for some who don't have the cash to spend on the games it's more difficult, but modern technology makes everything so much easier and less social (although, internet use isn't Game Freaks fault - everyone uses it).

The whole [email protected] argument though, making it so it joins your team and you don't have to chase it to capture it (imo) is great. The entire faff of having to chase it down around the map is ridiculous, I'd had enough of it in GSC/HGSS when I replayed those games and had to catch Entei and Raikou. The idea of getting the other one through an event/streetpass is also great. Then having an actual battle, also great. Also being able to fly from a city to a specific route is amazing, a definitely improvement. Ultimately, ORAS was a massive improvement upon RSE and arguably it's also an improvement (graphically) on XY.

Overall, if you look at ORAS compared to RSE it is a vast improvement, I don't miss the Battle Frontier in all honesty, I still replay Emerald and I still don't get very far within the Frontier - it doesn't interest me hugely. Although, it would have been nice to see, but personally I don't think we're missing a great deal. Alternatively, you can compare XY to ORAS, which you do see some differences, ORAS losing the ability to customise clothing. But the things that annoy me most about XY? The constant "update your PSS profile" "check out wondertrade!", that was stopped in ORAS. The movement, in XY you could move in a defined grid - ORAS you don't! I love that.

I just feel that people are dismissing or unhappy with things in ORAS that doesn't really improve your gameplay, yes you were able to customise your player or do nice graphical things. But ORAS refined everything in terms of gameplay and made it much more fluid and nicer. It introduced Hoenn to an entirely new Generation and improved all of my favourite Pokemon.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire March 14th, 2015 6:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adameastment (Post 8655774)
I don't like threads like this, RSE and now ORAS are quite honestly - my favourite games to date. I love everything about them, even when I sold my Gameboy Advance and games, I kept the Pokemon Games just to continue playing them. I was literally in it for a generation (picking up Gold at one point) then leaving the Pokéfandom :P.

When playing XY/ORAS for the first time, being able to use an EXP share that will apply to all members rather than just the first was a massive improvement. For the first time playing a Pokemon game I was able to built an entirely balanced team and actually properly get to know lots of different Pokemon. In that respect, I think that ORAS (and by extension XY) have done a great deal to improve the enjoyment of the game for those players who either don't have a huge amount of time or (like me) find it a monotonous task and would rather just be able to switch between different pokes. I loaded my original Ruby game the other day and attempted Norman's gym, couldn't beat him with my Combusken and that was my only real choice to use - frustrating.

I do agree that occasionally Game Freak can make things a little odd, like has been mentioned the E4 was almost exactly the same in terms of typings and that kinda thing. Which I agree was a bit odd considering the Pokes available within game, and it seemed to be overlooked when you actually stop and think about it.

But, I do think that both times the games have been released, they've added elements that allow for people to enjoy the game more. RSE had it in better colour than the GBC, it introduced new stuff like better berries, contests, different elements like the Pokemon being able to look cool and that kind of thing. In ORAS, we've got the DexNav allowing the playing to gain egg moves on Pokemon and being able to find Pokes with their hidden ability, ultimately allowing more variation within teams, and once the players knew what they were doing allow them to build more complex and diverse teams.

The biggest issue I have, is that you effectively need 2 games of the 4 currently released this generation and then trade to get the Pokemon you need. I know this has basically been the case since DPPl, but when every generation's box legends and side legends can be obtained with 2 games (using the GTS to get their opposites) or using Bank and owning both games it does make it a bit easier to complete the pokedex. It makes you question Game Freak's reasoning for it, I know for some who don't have the cash to spend on the games it's more difficult, but modern technology makes everything so much easier and less social (although, internet use isn't Game Freaks fault - everyone uses it).

The whole [email protected] argument though, making it so it joins your team and you don't have to chase it to capture it (imo) is great. The entire faff of having to chase it down around the map is ridiculous, I'd had enough of it in GSC/HGSS when I replayed those games and had to catch Entei and Raikou. The idea of getting the other one through an event/streetpass is also great. Then having an actual battle, also great. Also being able to fly from a city to a specific route is amazing, a definitely improvement. Ultimately, ORAS was a massive improvement upon RSE and arguably it's also an improvement (graphically) on XY.

Overall, if you look at ORAS compared to RSE it is a vast improvement, I don't miss the Battle Frontier in all honesty, I still replay Emerald and I still don't get very far within the Frontier - it doesn't interest me hugely. Although, it would have been nice to see, but personally I don't think we're missing a great deal. Alternatively, you can compare XY to ORAS, which you do see some differences, ORAS losing the ability to customise clothing. But the things that annoy me most about XY? The constant "update your PSS profile" "check out wondertrade!", that was stopped in ORAS. The movement, in XY you could move in a defined grid - ORAS you don't! I love that.

I just feel that people are dismissing or unhappy with things in ORAS that doesn't really improve your gameplay, yes you were able to customise your player or do nice graphical things. But ORAS refined everything in terms of gameplay and made it much more fluid and nicer. It introduced Hoenn to an entirely new Generation and improved all of my favourite Pokemon.

That's true, they did improve upon the old things in the games. It just doesn't have much replay-ability unlike FrLG and HgSs did...well this whole gen thus far has lacked that...

BettyNewbie March 14th, 2015 7:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8655734)
Two Gengars are harder than everything Poison-type you could throw at the player in RBY, plus Koga was that gen's Poison specialist.

Gengar may be a strong Pokémon, but fighting them over and over again is simply boring and doesn't reflect all that well on Agatha as a trainer, to be honest.

While she didn't have a great selection of Pokémon to work with, they could've done better than give her an awful-mono-Poison team. Ninetales has always been able to learn Ghost moves, and it's based on a legend associated with ghosts and witches, so why couldn't she have had one? And, in the games, themselves, Marowak is closely associated with the dead, and it's pre-evo can even be found in Pokémon Tower, so why not also give her one of those? I'd also throw in a Hypno, as it's a hypnotizer (an ability associated with ghosts back then) and is kind of creepy, in general. Now, her team would be Ninetales/Golbat/Marowak/Hypno/Gengar, which still keeps the "Ghost" theme and isn't nearly as boring or painfully easy to fight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8655734)
Of course, in GSC you have dupes, but GSC has more specialists than types, and no Ground-type specialist.

Yeah, that was sadly unavoidable, especially since they refused to give us a Ground E4 for whatever reason. Plus, GSC's E4 was one of the worst ever. Will was a horrid excuse for a Psychic trainer and E4 member in general, Bruno was as pointless and weak as ever, and Lance, bless him, was just a Poor Predictable Rock (a Kadabra with Ice/Thunderpunch could nuke him). Only Koga and Karen were any decent and even they had flaws (such as using weak, underpowered Pokémon like Ariados and Murkrow).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8655734)
In general the games without two regions don't have dupes

But, at the cost of having more limited postgames.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adameastment (Post 8655774)
When playing XY/ORAS for the first time, being able to use an EXP share that will apply to all members rather than just the first was a massive improvement. For the first time playing a Pokemon game I was able to built an entirely balanced team and actually properly get to know lots of different Pokemon. In that respect, I think that ORAS (and by extension XY) have done a great deal to improve the enjoyment of the game for those players who either don't have a huge amount of time or (like me) find it a monotonous task and would rather just be able to switch between different pokes. I loaded my original Ruby game the other day and attempted Norman's gym, couldn't beat him with my Combusken and that was my only real choice to use - frustrating.

Well, that's a big reason why remakes exist in the first place, to fix the flaws of the originals. ORAS did a decent enough job of that, although they could've stood to include more Emerald features (such as the stronger Gym Leader teams and Gym Leader rematches).

Quote:

Originally Posted by adameastment (Post 8655774)
I do agree that occasionally Game Freak can make things a little odd, like has been mentioned the E4 was almost exactly the same in terms of typings and that kinda thing. Which I agree was a bit odd considering the Pokes available within game, and it seemed to be overlooked when you actually stop and think about it.

As I said, the Hoenn E4 just wasn't thought out well at all. I guess since they were the first non-Indigo E4, it's not too surprising, but they could've been better. Of all the types that were available, why use ones that had already been used by E4 members in RBY/GSC? Especially, when said type had next-to-no representation in Hoenn? (*cough*Glacia*cough*)

Quote:

Originally Posted by adameastment (Post 8655774)
I don't miss the Battle Frontier in all honesty, I still replay Emerald and I still don't get very far within the Frontier - it doesn't interest me hugely.

I find it to be overrated, myself. The AI cheats, it's hard to beat without "good" (read. bred and EV-d) Pokémon, and it (along with the other battle facilities) just doesn't offer much at all for people who aren't into competitive battling. I would've much rather gotten some actual exploration areas instead of XY's battle facility, though.

Cerberus87 March 14th, 2015 7:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8655927)
Gengar may be a strong Pokémon, but fighting them over and over again is simply boring and doesn't reflect all that well on Agatha as a trainer, to be honest.

It depends. If they have different movesets, they can serve different purposes. Lance's three Dragonites in GSC each had a different elemental move, and the L50 one was the only one of them to have Outrage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8655927)
While she didn't have a great selection of Pokémon to work with, they could've done better than give her an awful-mono-Poison team. Ninetales has always been able to learn Ghost moves, and it's based on a legend associated with ghosts and witches, so why couldn't she have had one? And, in the games, themselves, Marowak is closely associated with the dead, and it's pre-evo can even be found in Pokémon Tower, so why not also give her one of those? I'd also throw in a Hypno, as it's a hypnotizer (an ability associated with ghosts back then) and is kind of creepy, in general. Now, her team would be Ninetales/Golbat/Marowak/Hypno/Gengar, which still keeps the "Ghost" theme and isn't nearly as boring or painfully easy to fight.

Yeah but then you complain about Flint despite all of his Pokémon knowing Fire moves... Ideally their teams would be monotype, but Flint's non-Fire Pokémon at least know Fire moves.

That's too varied for an E4 member, BTW. Hypno has no relation to ghosts in Pokémon lore, and Marowak doesn't have any ghostly moves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8655927)
Yeah, that was sadly unavoidable, especially since they refused to give us a Ground E4 for whatever reason. Plus, GSC's E4 was one of the worst ever. Will was a horrid excuse for a Psychic trainer and E4 member in general, Bruno was as pointless and weak as ever, and Lance, bless him, was just a Poor Predictable Rock (a Kadabra with Ice/Thunderpunch could nuke him). Only Koga and Karen were any decent and even they had flaws (such as using weak, underpowered Pokémon like Ariados and Murkrow).

Will has more personality than all of the Hoenn E4! He uses unusual, out of the box Psychic-types. He isn't too strong, but his teams have character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 8655927)
But, at the cost of having more limited postgames.

I'd argue there's more to do in B2W2's postgame than in GSC Kanto.

BettyNewbie March 14th, 2015 8:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8655952)
It depends. If they have different movesets, they can serve different purposes. Lance's three Dragonites in GSC each had a different elemental move, and the L50 one was the only one of them to have Outrage.

Big whoop. Doesn't matter when they're all outsped and KO-ed with Ice Punch. :rolleyes2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8655952)
Yeah but then you complain about Flint despite all of his Pokémon knowing Fire moves... Ideally their teams would be monotype, but Flint's non-Fire Pokémon at least know Fire moves.

As bad as Flint's DP team was, giving him non-Fire types was still better than giving him something like Ponyta/Ponyta/Rapidash/Rapidash/Infernape (which is what he undoubtedly would've had if DP had been an earlier Generation).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8655952)
That's too varied for an E4 member, BTW. Hypno has no relation to ghosts in Pokémon lore, and Marowak doesn't have any ghostly moves.

Both things are also true for Arbok, you know.

If you're not going to put enough Ghosts in the game for a Ghost E4 member to use, nor are you going to allow her to have a varied "spooky-themed" team, then... Just don't have a Ghost E4 member to begin with? It's pretty simple. :rolleyes2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8655952)
Will has more personality than all of the Hoenn E4! He uses unusual, out of the box Psychic-types. He isn't too strong, but his teams have character.

What personality? All I saw was this clown in a silly mask who used a bunch of weak Pokémon that I flattened in no time. (I was actually surprised that he wasn't packing the powerhouses known as Unown and Girafarig. :rolleyes2:) Just pitiful, especially coming off of Clair and her Kingdra.

Having more personality than the Hoenn E4 doesn't mean much as they're all just a bunch of cardboard cut-outs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerberus87 (Post 8655952)
I'd argue there's more to do in B2W2's postgame than in GSC Kanto.

If you're a competitive battler, sure.


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