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-   -   6th Gen History Repeating? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=343675)

Pinkie-Dawn March 25th, 2015 3:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minecraftprosick (Post 8656608)
I do think it just repeats. Every Pokemon game is the same, but in a different region and the same storyline but with a different enemy name.

What about Mario and Zelda? Both series follow the same structure (former has you travel through 8 exotic worlds plus an extra one after beating the game, and the latter has you exploring 7-8 dungeons, collect the items within each of them, and obtaining the master sword after the first three dungeons). It's the content that makes each installment unique, and Pokemon is no different.

Orithan March 25th, 2015 5:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn (Post 8673218)
What about Mario and Zelda? Both series follow the same structure (former has you travel through 8 exotic worlds plus an extra one after beating the game, and the latter has you exploring 7-8 dungeons, collect the items within each of them, and obtaining the master sword after the first three dungeons). It's the content that makes each installment unique, and Pokemon is no different.

The point here is that a lot of the fans don't want to see the same formula over and over again. Mario and Zelda have used the same basic formula for each of their games (well, not all of them in the latter; see Four Swords and Four Swords Adventure), just like Pokemon. And just like Pokemon, a lot of fans are getting tired of their formulas. The difference between Zelda and Mario and Pokemon is that the formula is exactly the same in Pokemon (with the slight exception of B/W1) while Zelda and Mario tries to change the formula from time to time.

Pinkie-Dawn March 25th, 2015 6:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orithan (Post 8673350)
The point here is that a lot of the fans don't want to see the same formula over and over again. Mario and Zelda have used the same basic formula for each of their games (well, not all of them in the latter; see Four Swords and Four Swords Adventure), just like Pokemon. And just like Pokemon, a lot of fans are getting tired of their formulas. The difference between Zelda and Mario and Pokemon is that the formula is exactly the same in Pokemon (with the slight exception of B/W1) while Zelda and Mario tries to change the formula from time to time.

By "a lot of fans" you mean the vocal minority/fans who outgrew the series, who are also the same group who'll complain about the changes made to the formula of both Pokemon and other franchises. You've probably heard about the Zelda cycle and criticism towards Super Mario Sunshine before.

Pendraflare March 25th, 2015 6:25 PM

Mario has never really been known for changing its formula much either since it's usually him saving Peach from Bowser, even though I haven't played most of the newest Mario games. But with Pokémon it works because there are new regions and over 700 Pokémon to use at this point.

Orithan March 26th, 2015 1:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn (Post 8673378)
By "a lot of fans" you mean the vocal minority/fans who outgrew the series, who are also the same group who'll complain about the changes made to the formula of both Pokemon and other franchises. You've probably heard about the Zelda cycle and criticism towards Super Mario Sunshine before.

While saying that they are the vocal minority has some credibility as you can easily look at the sales figures to see that to some extent, but saying that these are all in the "outgrew" crowd is wrong even though there is a lot of those types of the fans. From experience, a lot of the fans I am describing tend to like the spinoffs that were well made (eg. Pokemon Colosseum/XD, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon I and II, even Hyrule Warriors) and main series games that went out of their way to innovate (eg. major 3D Mario games including Sunshine, Ocarina of Time) simply because deviate from the standard formula and hate the main series games that downgraded or removed key design points and/or features already present in earlier games in the series (eg. entirety of Gen III and V Pokemon, Metroid Fusion, DS Zeldas and Skyward Sword) while keeping the same formula. These fans tend to be more mature, reasonable and less biased than the ones who simply outgrew their series regarding their hate.

Also, there is evidence that the so called "vocal minority" might be actually having an effect on the sales. X/Y are the lowest selling main Pokemon games in the series, doing worse than B/W and R/S did despite being more heavily advertised than B/W (from what I can recall anyway). There is evidence to suggest that the age demographic of the people that have been playing the games have changed from school children to teenagers/adults and have easy access to the internet. It is likely that this, compounded with the fallout from Gen V's hate and the Gen VI hate, is part of the reason for the drop in sales. OR/AS are doing well for remakes so far, but that can trail off badly like what happened with X/Y and the series still looks like it is in danger of dying in the next couple of generations if sales don't pick up due being the second consecutive generation of decline.
Changing up the formula might have a huge drop in the sales numbers initially, but this is only temporary if you continue following that formula with further titles. This is demonstrated by the Super Mario Galaxy series, which is well loved by most the fanbase that hasn't grown out of Mario altogether. SMG 1 sold remarkably poorly for a main series game, at about 9mil sales compared to NSMB's 20mil, but then SMG 2 came along and drew much better sales figures, comparable to the rest of the main series titles.

Pinkie-Dawn April 13th, 2015 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orithan (Post 8673841)
While saying that they are the vocal minority has some credibility as you can easily look at the sales figures to see that to some extent, but saying that these are all in the "outgrew" crowd is wrong even though there is a lot of those types of the fans. From experience, a lot of the fans I am describing tend to like the spinoffs that were well made (eg. Pokemon Colosseum/XD, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon I and II, even Hyrule Warriors) and main series games that went out of their way to innovate (eg. major 3D Mario games including Sunshine, Ocarina of Time) simply because deviate from the standard formula and hate the main series games that downgraded or removed key design points and/or features already present in earlier games in the series (eg. entirety of Gen III and V Pokemon, Metroid Fusion, DS Zeldas and Skyward Sword) while keeping the same formula. These fans tend to be more mature, reasonable and less biased than the ones who simply outgrew their series regarding their hate.

Then show me these "mature" fans of which you've speak. If it's somewhere like Reddit, then again, that's still the vocal minority.

Quote:

Also, there is evidence that the so called "vocal minority" might be actually having an effect on the sales. X/Y are the lowest selling main Pokemon games in the series, doing worse than B/W and R/S did despite being more heavily advertised than B/W (from what I can recall anyway). There is evidence to suggest that the age demographic of the people that have been playing the games have changed from school children to teenagers/adults and have easy access to the internet. It is likely that this, compounded with the fallout from Gen V's hate and the Gen VI hate, is part of the reason for the drop in sales. OR/AS are doing well for remakes so far, but that can trail off badly like what happened with X/Y and the series still looks like it is in danger of dying in the next couple of generations if sales don't pick up due being the second consecutive generation of decline.
Where on Earth did you get that information? Last time I heard, X/Y outsold B/W. Keep in mind that Gen VI is still new; it takes time for sales to increase like every Nintendo game. Also, Pokemon X/Y are the highest-rated games in the series so far. If it stayed the same as you've claimed, then the overall score would've been much lower.


Quote:

Changing up the formula might have a huge drop in the sales numbers initially, but this is only temporary if you continue following that formula with further titles. This is demonstrated by the Super Mario Galaxy series, which is well loved by most the fanbase that hasn't grown out of Mario altogether. SMG 1 sold remarkably poorly for a main series game, at about 9mil sales compared to NSMB's 20mil, but then SMG 2 came along and drew much better sales figures, comparable to the rest of the main series titles.
Show me the sales for SM64 and SMS, because comparing SMG to NSMB, both of which are completely different Mario titles, is like comparing apples to oranges. Of course 2D Mario games will outsold 3D Mario games.


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