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-   -   6th Gen In Other News, Japan Gets all the Cool Stuff (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=345014)

Volga March 17th, 2015 3:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirestormProdigy (Post 8660258)
The movie event Arceus hasnt been released yet not even in Japan as far as I know.

It was released in Japan on the 7th, so it's been out for over a week.

Damaged_Dweeb1273 March 17th, 2015 4:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirestormProdigy (Post 8660258)
Nintendo and Gamefreak are multi-billion dollar companies they dont need to make more money. Not to mention what does it matter if I like to cheat in my game? What harm is it doing them? They are making the money off games and systems so why cant I have the freedom to do what I want with my game and save? Its like we are renting the game from them, They say okay we will make this game for you and you can buy it and own it but we wont let you do anything with it but play the storyline, if you do anything we dont like we will brick your system so you cant play anymore. Thats controlling and not fair.

To your other comment I would believe you that you soft resetted If you could actually obtain Arceus in X/Y and ORAS but the fact that you cant tells me something else. The movie event Arceus hasnt been released yet not even in Japan as far as I know.

its not about stopping one from getting more money, but making money of people's hardwork... That is really nearly like money laundering. And that is against the law.
Hacking a software is illegal but for games it doesnt apply as of yet. Anyway it's a simple question of morals. Would you actually want a game you designed be hacked and have people make money from it, while you the creator don't?

And Arceus Japan event has been released about for about a week now.
You can get Arceus in XY/ORAS if you have japanese console and game and the serial code for buying the ticket.
I am English/Japanese.
As I currently live in UK, I gain the code by my Uncle who lives with my cousin in Japan. My cousin used his own ticket's code and I used my uncle's ticket code.

FirestormProdigy March 18th, 2015 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damaged_Dweeb1273 (Post 8660349)
its not about stopping one from getting more money, but making money of people's hardwork... That is really nearly like money laundering. And that is against the law.
Hacking a software is illegal but for games it doesnt apply as of yet. Anyway it's a simple question of morals. Would you actually want a game you designed be hacked and have people make money from it, while you the creator don't?

And Arceus Japan event has been released about for about a week now.
You can get Arceus in XY/ORAS if you have japanese console and game and the serial code for buying the ticket.
I am English/Japanese.
As I currently live in UK, I gain the code by my Uncle who lives with my cousin in Japan. My cousin used his own ticket's code and I used my uncle's ticket code.

They arent making money off of Gamefreak and Nintendo's systems/games. Datel has its own product that it makes money off of and has codes for more games then just Pokemon. And those game creators dont seem to mind. You have to buy a physical copy of the game to use powersaves. Gamefreak doesnt make money off of Wifi battles, Iv's, Ev's, Natures, Conkeldurr, Dragonite, egg hatching or event pokes. It makes money off of the sales of Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire and X and Y. And nintendo makes money off the sales of 3DS consoles. Datel doesnt hurt Nintendo nor Gamefreaks budget. Honestly you have this whole thing backwards and should be aiming your argument at flashcarts. Because those are what take money from game card businesses, because you can download roms and such to them. But even then they dont take money from Nintendo. But honestly cheating, hackmons, and powesaves do not take money away from Gamefreak or Nintendo.

Damaged_Dweeb1273 March 18th, 2015 7:52 PM

In eBay people sell pokemon... There is even a website dedicated just in selling pokemon for real life money~
Besides Nintendo filed a lawsuit to Datel, just before B/W2 I think it was...
They only failed since they couldn't prove if a pokemon is really cheated or not *legit or legal* since the security of pokemon they implemented failed them.
But since they know now that Mythicals are being renamed into vulgar things in Wi-Fi when shouldn't be, they should or will probably file a lawsuit for abusing online uses through GTS.
If a player instead just wait for powersave... Lets say in Japan... They are not much into hacking but if they are... Do you think much will go to the cinema or just wait for the DVD?
Besides a pre-ordered ticket is alot more expensive than buying a regular ticket and Im pretty sure they will lose money that way.
Well yeh flashcarts, and whatnot~ ROM hacks... Creators of them rarely want money in return.

mew_nani March 18th, 2015 8:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damaged_Dweeb1273 (Post 8660349)
its not about stopping one from getting more money, but making money of people's hardwork... That is really nearly like money laundering. And that is against the law.
Hacking a software is illegal but for games it doesnt apply as of yet. Anyway it's a simple question of morals. Would you actually want a game you designed be hacked and have people make money from it, while you the creator don't?

Hacking into games is as old as the NES at least. Remember Game Genie? That did the same thing; giving you extra lives, increased jumping ability, the works. It's a gray area, but people are going to do it whether you like it or not, and there's not much you can do about it. Datel making a 6th gen Action Replay isn't entirely sponging off of Pokemon alone because people don't just buy it for hacking Pokemon. There are Action Replay codes for every game out there, including Legend of Zelda, Mario and anything else compatible with a 3DS. People like cheating, and whether they do it or not is their personal preference.

There's another important point though: hacking into games isn't the same as hacking into software. You're changing bytes but you're only injecting code that gives you Pokemon or extra lives, not injecting a virus that wipes your hard drive and gets your bank account information. The two are very different, and have very different goals. Besides there's a point you're missing: if hacking video games becomes illegal there goes all your mods. Modding a game is hacking it, since you're going in there and changing how the game originally worked, so you'd be making mods illegal for every game out there.

But with that said, gosh darn it Japan. Why can't we get a shiny Arceus? ; ;

FirestormProdigy March 19th, 2015 3:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damaged_Dweeb1273 (Post 8661817)
In eBay people sell pokemon... There is even a website dedicated just in selling pokemon for real life money~
Besides Nintendo filed a lawsuit to Datel, just before B/W2 I think it was...
They only failed since they couldn't prove if a pokemon is really cheated or not *legit or legal* since the security of pokemon they implemented failed them.
But since they know now that Mythicals are being renamed into vulgar things in Wi-Fi when shouldn't be, they should or will probably file a lawsuit for abusing online uses through GTS.
If a player instead just wait for powersave... Lets say in Japan... They are not much into hacking but if they are... Do you think much will go to the cinema or just wait for the DVD?
Besides a pre-ordered ticket is alot more expensive than buying a regular ticket and Im pretty sure they will lose money that way.
Well yeh flashcarts, and whatnot~ ROM hacks... Creators of them rarely want money in return.

That lawsuit failed because they cannot own pokemon that are inside of a persons game. They can only own the files that were used to create them. Powersaves doesnt inject pokemon into the game therefore its not against the rules nor is it illegal. Besides that you cant name a pokemon or your character or rival any vulgar names anymore. That ended with X/Y I believe. Believe me I tried. New games that are sold through Ebay and other companies usually a cut goes to Gamefreak itself. Honestly I have little knowledge on how that works because im not part of that company, but saying Ebay cant sell pokemon Omega Ruby is like saying Walmart cant sell it either. As for used games on Ebay the rights to that property belong to the person who is selling it and not Gamefreak. There are many technicalities you dont understand about this. Gamefreak only owns the files of everything thats within the game. Not the game itself, so as long as Datel isnt extracting the files, Modifying or altering them thats against copyright laws such as rom hacking Gamfreak cannot do anything about it and Datel cannot be sued. Although Gateway 3ds does allow roms to be played on the system it does not extract the roms itself you have to download them from an external source. You would have to sue every rom hacker in the USA and honestly just sueing that many would bankrupt Nintendo AND Gamefreak because of lawsuit expenses. Overall Datel and Gateway3DS nor Ebay or Walmart take any kind of money away from Nintendo or Gamefreak. They are their own legitimate businesses that sell their own products and accessories.

Karma89 March 20th, 2015 6:40 AM

Just for argument sakes, there is one way that Powersaves can actually cause Game Freak to lose money. When someone gets a hold of a event pokemon and makes multiple copies of it just to hand it out to the public, this can cause Game Freak to lose money. There are people out there that will buy a movie just to get the event pokemon that comes with it. When they no longer have to do this because they can get it for free, Game Freak loses money. So in a sense, cloning event pokemon that only comes out via money can cause Game Freak to loses money. Now, the issue here is the fact that Game Freak already gives out free event pokemon without requiring you to buy a thing. So, Game Freak in a way has no reason to complain if they want to give things away for free but also charge for specific events. At that point, Game Freak is being a hypocrite to their own logic.

Basically, as long as its not a pokemon that you technically have to pay for to get, its really not causing Game Freak to lose money when you use Power Saves. Its only when these "pay to get" pokemon are cloned is when Game Freak loses money. Fire is right though, Powersaves and hacking in general do not affect Game Freak's sales of the game itself. Neither do these sites that offer specific pokemon for money. These sites do not provide a service that you don't already have available to you when you buy the game. So, its not really costing Game Freak any money when people sell pokemon.

Sun March 20th, 2015 2:14 PM

I know it's unfair, but hahaha Pokémon originated from Japan afteall. So aint gonna get mad on that. :P

My concern on the other hand is Pokémon might end up including microtransection stuff in their future games. They can easily do this to the trainer customizations, event legendaries, rare items, etc.

Karma89 March 20th, 2015 2:41 PM

That wont solve the problem to be honest. People will still just get the event/rare items, clone a ton of them and give them out for free. So really doing microtransactions is not much different than putting a code in a movie so that you can only get the pokemon by buying the movie. You might just get a group of people that will go and share the payment of the event poke/item. Say its $10, 3 people will pay $3.33 each to get the poke, then clone it and hand it out to their friends. So it just doesn't solve the issue really. The only way to solve the issue is to find a way to distinguish the hacked pokemon from the real one and Powersaves in general isn't making the pokemon from nothing. Powersaves is only taking the pokemon as a base platform and editing it to be exactly what you want it to be, so even if they found a way to distinguish hacked from non-hacked it wouldn't work on powersaves. Its essential a legal version of the pokemon, just with the IV/EVs/Nature values changed to what you want.


EDIT: Oh, and even if Game Freak was able to do something to tell when a pokemon was edited, that doesn't solve the entire problem. Yes, cloned pokes wouldn't be allowed in battles but that doesn't mean its hard to get any breedable pokemon that you want. You grab a ditto, make it 6 IV, grab the pokemon you want, make it 6 IV then the nature you want and then turn on fast hatch and breed the two. With in 15 minutes you will have at least a 5 IV version of the pokemon you want. The only thing that this would solve outside of cloning is having the exact Hidden Power you want. Honestly though, you take maybe 15 minutes and get the Garchomp you couldn't use back? How does this solve anything really?

Damaged_Dweeb1273 March 21st, 2015 1:57 PM

Well... I did clarify that software hacking IS NOT like rom hacking. And for the eBay pokemon sellers, I wasn't talking about plushie or t-shirt sellers. I was talking about the real pokemon*IN-GAME POKEMON* sellers out there, Besides anyone selling merchandise with Pokemon anywhere in there name shouldn't even be done at all.*ahem... Trademark anyone?* Well unless they are actually legitimately sold by the company. Even advertising or showing logos of any sort is not allowed but still happens. You might know this from the way logos of some sort are blurred during broadcast, or even if watching reality shows, labels are ripped off. So really, if a person tries to sell something linked to Pokemon, proper procedures is that they are supposed to contact them first and whatnot and get a deal. Yes, they may not have been the one who designed a plushie *for example* but the influence of them as being pokemon is what makes people buy them and get their money from that. So Nintendo/GameFreak is really entitled to a fraction of the money gained from those in-game-pokemon sold in eBay,

Well I can't really argue with anything from ROM hacks since I do not play them nor have tried them, therefore I didn't mention anything about them.


But I was arguing mostly about how people here, in this thread seems to moan about how Japan 'gets all the cool stuff' which was answered in my first post. CAN YOU GUYS ACTUALLY READ MY FIRST POST? *2nd Page*

If you had read my first post. I did say I wasn't strongly against them. My argument only evolved how Pokemon is being sold in various websites and whatnot without Nintendo/GameFreak even getting a cent back. Well PowerSave is ripping off GameFreak, and ok... AND NINTENDO. They are altering them. They get a base copy of it and changes/alters it to their own taste of what IV/Nature/Characteristics. So hence you are modifying what was on the game itself. Plus even on the old games like for example, in D/P/Pt, powersave/action replay was used to alter the game play, by reintroducing events/event items that are not released *Azure Flute* or past their event dates set up by GF itself. If Azure Flute event was not even released and been 'locked' in the in-game item catalogue then I would think that's hacking don't you think so? Plus making unreleased event pokemon appear in the wild in levels I am pretty sure is no where than they would be released at. Besides your argument on how using PowerSave/Action Replay is not hacking is stupid since they have advertised themselves as a hacking tool before.

Damaged_Dweeb1273 March 21st, 2015 2:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mew_nani (Post 8661871)

But with that said, gosh darn it Japan. Why can't we get a shiny Arceus? ; ;

Read my message on 2nd Page.

mew_nani March 21st, 2015 5:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damaged_Dweeb1273 (Post 8665871)
Read my message on 2nd Page.

I get that it's a promotion for a movie that will never be released in theatres outside of Japan, and in general the world isn't as engrossed in Pokemon as we are, but distribution via movie ticket isn't the only way to go. If Nintendo is capable of handing out game demos via serial code how is this so impossible? Even if the movie won't be shown in a theatre it'll still be broadcast on Cartoon Network and the like. They could still distribute codes for it. That wasn't possible several years ago but is now, so what gives?

Damaged_Dweeb1273 March 22nd, 2015 4:10 AM

Well... Cartoon Network only plays the DVD, and for the DVD to be made, it has to be English dubbed, and a movie shown in a cinema is always only made a DVD a couple of week to months after. Also Cartoon Network has to pay fee/tax for every time it shows a movie as a premier, this goes for any movies too on any channel. And also for a movie to be premiered on any channel, it is like an unspoken/unwritten rule that they would only allow so weeks/months after the DVD release to also make sure that the premier on a channel does not affect demography sales.

And even though the number of people is comparatively small in ratio to those that do not pre-order the ticket just for the Pokemon in Japan, they may also see it as being ripped off...
But I do agree that they should re-release the events much like so the coming copycat Japanese event of the Shiny Charizard for Germany, maybe weeks/months after the original from Japan.
But then I also believe the idea from one of the people here saying that it's maybe Japan punishing other countries for excessive use of hacking and whatnot.

RandomDSdevel March 24th, 2015 9:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damaged_Dweeb1273 (Post 8665859)
…And for the eBay pokemon sellers, I wasn't talking about plushie or t-shirt sellers. I was talking about the real pokemon*IN-GAME POKEMON* sellers out there, Besides anyone selling merchandise with Pokemon anywhere in there name shouldn't even be done at all.*ahem... Trademark anyone?* Well unless they are actually legitimately sold by the company. Even advertising or showing logos of any sort is not allowed but still happens. You might know this from the way logos of some sort are blurred during broadcast, or even if watching reality shows, labels are ripped off. So really, if a person tries to sell something linked to Pokemon, proper procedures is that they are supposed to contact them first and whatnot and get a deal. Yes, they may not have been the one who designed a plushie *for example* but the influence of them as being pokemon is what makes people buy them and get their money from that. So Nintendo/GameFreak is really entitled to a fraction of the money gained from those in-game-pokemon sold in eBay,


Um, have you ever heard of derivative works? I'm pretty sure that creating them is considered fair use in a lot of cases.

BlackJack1214 March 24th, 2015 2:38 PM

Yeah... It always seems like they get the events first (If we get it at all!)

Damaged_Dweeb1273 March 25th, 2015 6:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomDSdevel (Post 8670871)
Um, have you ever heard of derivative works I'm pretty sure that creating them is considered fair use in a lot of cases.

Yes... I luckily have... But that will really only work if MERCHANDISE sold BEAR ORIGINALITY of their own AND NOT COMPLETELY IDENTICAL to the ORIGINAL WORKS. Your argument is a bust since for example, sellers in eBay selling unlegalised merchandise by people that is unconnected to GameFreak/Nintendo, merchandises bearing identical resemblance to the original works, even if a posture is something never before seen it's still not a derivative work and will never or should be claimed as one.

For a person to legally in all laws be able to supply a derivative work, in this example, Pokemon, they have to make aesthetical changes from the original work, only then could it be claimed as a secondary 'unrelated' derivative work. For example, a merchandise seller in eBay selling Rayquaza themed bags, shirts, etc. can only be accounted as derivative if its not anything GameFreak/Nintendo had ever assigned it to be. So a two-headed Rayquaza t-shirt will suffice more in all manners of the law, or at least by making the colour palette neither green/black.

An example of proper derivative websites is DeviantArt. People who make real money other than points from linking, etc. art have their own originality imbued in their work, especially when adapting works with Trademark. They commonly do so by adapting themes to them, gothic, real-life, gore, etc. they will add in teeth, fur/hair, or a few individualistic minor details to their work that encompasses the chosen theme, making it bear some least originality from the source.

And to those making art bearing near/complete resemblance to the original works is not out there making money but are just seeking credit for their skills. A fan service by fellow fans. Well, if they are... They should be penalised or something...

To sum things up... I will only always be rooting for a two-headed Rayquaza anytime in eBay/Amazon, etc.

Just because police will not always barge in the door of someone doing illegal things, it doesn't give them any right to keep doing it. That's just like having an ignorant notion that there should be a police for everyone, as an effective law-abiding persecuting guardian *angel*. Applying magniloquent big technical words doesn't automatically win an argument if your unsure how/when/where to apply it.


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