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-   -   6th Gen so much hacking in ORAS!!! (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=345421)

Juxapose March 11th, 2015 6:59 PM

so much hacking in ORAS!!!
 
Battling in ORAS has not been fun lately. Probably due to the fact that there are so many hacked pokemon in battle spot. I can tell because slower pokemon has been outspeeding my super fast team such as mega beedrill and weavile . Other pokemon have far too much bulk and can't be one hit even when hit with super effective moves and low defenses and hp. My super tanks can't seem to take neutral hits.

Am I the only one experiencing this?

destinedjagold March 11th, 2015 7:29 PM

Hacked Pokémon cannot be brought for battle on Battle Spot. And keep in mind that there are held items that can boost a Pokémon's speed, such as a Choice Scarf. Here's a copy+paste description of that item...
Quote:

When this item is being held, the user's Speed is increased by 50%, but the Pokémon is limited to using the first attack it uses until it is withdrawn from battle.
There are also other stat boosting items that can be held by a Pokémon. Not only that, but there are also IVs and EVs that you need to consider on a Pokémon. Those two (IVs and EVs) can increase a stat to its highest potential, not to mention if a right Nature is added into the mix.

In any case, welcome to the world of Competitive Battling.

Oblox March 12th, 2015 2:30 AM

Its not regular pokemon that are hacked its usually a japanese player with a full team of shiny legendaries including shiny mew that annoy me on battle spot. Thankfully they are few and far between.

Karma89 March 12th, 2015 5:09 AM

Basically what Destine said. While you can "hack" pokemon in, they have to be exactly the same as the max potential a normal pokemon would be. So, if you were to say breed a 6 IV Garchomp with a Jolly nature and give it a Choice Scarf while giving it 252 EVs in the speed stat......This would be as fast as Garchomp could ever be by breeding. On the flip side you could do the same exact thing by hacking a pokemon in. If you were to make it any faster than this or give it a move it couldn't learn normally, it would never make it into a Battle Spot battle. So, while you can technically hack a pokemon in, it still has to follow the rules of a normal pokemon or else it can't be used. So, everything you were just talking about in your post is what a normal pokemon that you breed could do it without being hacked.

Juxapose March 12th, 2015 5:15 AM

These pokemon do not have choice scarves. They switch moves all the time and I always frisk my opponent in case I am wrong. I can post a video as proof if needed.

Nah March 12th, 2015 5:24 AM

I say post a video so we can see exactly what it is you're talking about.

Karma89 March 12th, 2015 5:31 AM

Probably would be easiest to post a video but in general if you hack a pokemon into the game it has to be "legal" in terms of what its max potential is compared to the max potential a pokemon that is bred has.

Have you been breeding for IVs and doing the proper EV training? Are the pokemon you are fighting close to the same speed normally? If so do you have a speed boosting nature or not? If their speeds are normally pretty close and you have Max Speed IVs and have put max EVs into speed but you don't have a speed boosting nature then thats how they are out speeding you.

PlatinumDude March 12th, 2015 6:49 AM

And to add, if regular Beedrill Mega Evolves, it uses its base form's Speed for the turn, due to Mega Evolution mechanics; when a Pokemon Mega Evolves, the turn order isn't affected. This is why Protect is a necessity on it.

Read this if you want to know more

adameastment March 12th, 2015 9:24 AM

What annoys me more than the clear hacked IVs etc. Is the people who believe that a team of Legends can outperform everything else just by showing up. I was up against someone on Battle Spot and he/she had Groudon, Kyogre, Xerneus, Yveltal, Mewtwo and Zygarde I believe - all shiny. After I beat his/her Groudon out in one turn, Xerneus and Yveltal were taken out with almost as much ease then he/she bought out Kyogre and flattened me because it's way uber.

I didn't mind losing - that's life. But I think it was the fact they were all shiny, and the mentality that legends are the best thing in the world ever and nothing can beat them :P

Juxapose March 12th, 2015 9:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karma89 (Post 8652283)
Have you been breeding for IVs and doing the proper EV training? Are the pokemon you are fighting close to the same speed normally? If so do you have a speed boosting nature or not? If their speeds are normally pretty close and you have Max Speed IVs and have put max EVs into speed but you don't have a speed boosting nature then thats how they are out speeding you.

To answer this question, yes. All my speed based pokemon have nature's that benefit speed, 252 ev's and perfect IV's on at least speed and it's main attacking stats. I am a huge fan of breeding with destiny knot and everstone.

No reason why pokemon like Gallade, tentacruel, and raichu are outspeeding my weavile, talonflame, crobat, greninja, and scarfed butterfree.

Karma89 March 12th, 2015 12:42 PM

Mega Gallade and Raichu can out speed a Scarfed Butterfree.

70 Speed + 10% for speed boosting Nature + 50% for Choice Scarf

70 + 7 + 38.5 = 115.5

Doesn't matter what order things take place as it all adds up to the same thing. EVs being added in don't matter as both pokes would have max Speed EVs.

Mega Gallade
Base 110 speed + Speed boosting Nature.

110 + 11 = 121 base speed.

Raichu has the same base speed, so it should be able to out speed a scarfed Butter Free with Max IVs, max EVs in speed, and a speed boosting nature.



The rest of the pokes i have no clue unless it was priority moves that were hitting you. If they aren't then they must be scarfed to be out speeding you and you just didn't notice. At the end of the day, you can't bring hacked pokemon into Battle Spot that would be faster then normal pokemon, Battle Spot wont let you. So, you must not be noticing the Choice Scarf. Hell, the latest version of the 3DS framework software made it impossible to hack pokemon in if you updated to it.

Juxapose March 12th, 2015 1:31 PM

Well, here is the vid I promised. Please explain how Raikou outspeeds my Talonflame:

ZRQG-WWWW-WWXK-6S6K

Please note that my Talonflame has 195 speed. Raikou's max speed allowed is 183. You can clearly see in this video that it is NOT scarfed.

PS, I would also love to point out that hacking must be possible and allowed in Battle Spot considering Diancie and Hoopa has been kicking my butt long before they have been released. I don't even think Hoopa is released yet.

PlatinumDude March 12th, 2015 1:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karma89 (Post 8652682)
Mega Gallade and Raichu can out speed a Scarfed Butterfree.

70 Speed + 10% for speed boosting Nature + 50% for Choice Scarf

70 + 7 + 38.5 = 115.5

Doesn't matter what order things take place as it all adds up to the same thing. EVs being added in don't matter as both pokes would have max Speed EVs.

Mega Gallade
Base 110 speed + Speed boosting Nature.

110 + 11 = 121 base speed.

Raichu has the same base speed, so it should be able to out speed a scarfed Butter Free with Max IVs, max EVs in speed, and a speed boosting nature.



The rest of the pokes i have no clue unless it was priority moves that were hitting you. If they aren't then they must be scarfed to be out speeding you and you just didn't notice. At the end of the day, you can't bring hacked pokemon into Battle Spot that would be faster then normal pokemon, Battle Spot wont let you. So, you must not be noticing the Choice Scarf. Hell, the latest version of the 3DS framework software made it impossible to hack pokemon in if you updated to it.

This isn't how it really works. There's a difference between base stat and the maximum/minimum stats as seen in the Pokemon's summary screen.

At level 50, Butterfree's max Speed with a neutral nature, 0 EVs and a 31 Speed IV is 90 (which is 20 above the base stat). With a +Speed nature (90 x 1.1), this becomes 99. Give that stat 252 EVs and this reaches 122 (135 with a +Speed nature). Give Butterfree a Choice Scarf and this becomes 183 (with the neutral nature) or 202 (rounded down, with the +Speed nature).

At level 50, Mega Gallade's max Speed with a neutral nature, 0 EVs and a 31 Speed IV is 130. With a +Speed nature, this becomes 143. If 252 Speed EVs are applied, this becomes 162 (with a neutral nature) or 178 (with the +Speed nature)

Even then, Choice Scarf Butterfree still outspeeds Mega Gallade, but that was the wrong way to explain it.

Read for more info.

FirestormProdigy March 12th, 2015 1:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juxapose (Post 8651870)
Battling in ORAS has not been fun lately. Probably due to the fact that there are so many hacked pokemon in battle spot. I can tell because slower pokemon has been outspeeding my super fast team such as mega beedrill and weavile . Other pokemon have far too much bulk and can't be one hit even when hit with super effective moves and low defenses and hp. My super tanks can't seem to take neutral hits.

Am I the only one experiencing this?

No your not the only one. I faced a Tyranitar which out sped my Gardevoir with 252 speed and timid nature. The only way it could do that is if it was scarfed, had jolly and it was 252 speed. But his Tyranitar wasn't scarfed because it used more then 1 move. Tyranitar's base speed is 61. Gardevoir's base speed is 80 so just a regular Jolly 252 speed T-Tar wouldnt be able to out speed a Timid 252 speed Gardevoir, or at least if my math is correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by destinedjagold (Post 8651888)
Hacked Pokémon cannot be brought for battle on Battle Spot. And keep in mind that there are held items that can boost a Pokémon's speed, such as a Choice Scarf. Here's a copy+paste description of that item...

There are also other stat boosting items that can be held by a Pokémon. Not only that, but there are also IVs and EVs that you need to consider on a Pokémon. Those two (IVs and EVs) can increase a stat to its highest potential, not to mention if a right Nature is added into the mix.

In any case, welcome to the world of Competitive Battling.

Actually QR injected pokegenned Pokemon can be used in the Battle Spot so can Pokemon that were made via Powersaves just as long as they look legit and have a legit place of origin. Those are considered hacked as well. As for Pokemon that don't have legit stats cant be used, nor can they be used on regular wifi battles either. I had a Mega Swampert that I accidentally put too many Ev's on when using Powersaves and it wouldn't allow it in a battle when challenged. So overall hackedmons are allowed they just have to be legit. Although I don't doubt someone found a way to use hackedmons with illegal stats on battle spot. There have been times where I thought something fishy was going on with their pokes.

Juxapose March 12th, 2015 1:57 PM

I am not sure how hacks work or how Nintendo judges stats, but let me state a theory:

One of the other problems I have are pokemon that are over bulky and over powered (meaning too much attack and/or special attack). If Raikou's max stats are:

Lvl 50
HP: 197
AT:150
DF:139
SD:167
Speed:183

That does not mean it should be allowed to have all the maxed stats. Remember that natures cannot apply to all stats, and one stat must be lowered by 10%.

Karma89 March 12th, 2015 2:00 PM

Huh, i was thinking Choice Scarf double based off the base stats and not the stat with the EVs added. I have no clue why i was thinking this. lol

In any case, i had no clue how they would be out speeding you. However, i highly doubt its due to the pokemon being hacked. There must be something we are missing. In terms of the video, i've got no clue how to view the video itself. lol I don't use showdown or anything, so i was expecting a link to a youtube video or something.

@Jux: When it comes to programming, in this case coding should be written to include each possible combination of "legal" stats. So boosting a stat outside of its normal range for the given nature and EV spread wouldn't work if the coding is written the way i suspect it to be written. For example, if you were to do a speed nature with max speed EVs and max Attack EVs i suspect the coding would be set up to only allow pokemon with a certain defense and spdef stat if it has all of its EVs dedicated to attack and speed. If it is set up that way, then there would be no way to boost stats higher then their normal values.

Basically if defense is higher than X, then do not allow the pokemon into battle spot. Same with Spdef or any of the other stats that don't have EVs in them. Speaking from the programming background i have, this would seem to be the most logical way to catch hacked pokemon to me. However, without seeing the actual coding of the game, i can't say for sure that this is the way battle spot catches hacked pokemon.

Juxapose March 12th, 2015 2:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karma89 (Post 8652787)
In terms of the video, i've got no clue how to view the video itself. lol I don't use showdown or anything, so i was expecting a link to a youtube video or something.

You can input the code to your 3DS to view the match while using your VS Recorder

Quote:

@Jux: When it comes to programming, in this case coding should be written to include each possible combination of "legal" stats. So boosting a stat outside of its normal range for the given nature and EV spread wouldn't work if the coding is written the way i suspect it to be written.
We don't know how the codes are written or programmed. That's why it's a theory not a fact.

Karma89 March 12th, 2015 2:11 PM

Right, i added to my post above as i got to thinking about it. XD

Anyways, like i and you said, without seeing the coding itself i can't say for sure how battle spot works. All i can say is that from the way i think when programming, thats the most sufficient way to catch and keep hacked pokemon out of battle spot.

Pendraflare March 12th, 2015 3:26 PM

Really? Players are still using hacked Pokémon? After what happened with Bank you'd think Game Freak would have done something about ensuring that the hacked garbage stays offline, period.

Karma89 March 12th, 2015 3:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pendraflare (Post 8652860)
Really? Players are still using hacked Pokémon? After what happened with Bank you'd think Game Freak would have done something about ensuring that the hacked garbage stays offline, period.

Well, what can you do about it is the question? If everything is done correctly, is there even a way to trace it or distinguish it from a hack pokemon? I honestly don't know if there is, so thats why i ask. If there isn't a way to tell the two apart, then how can Game Freak actually stop it? Not saying there isn't a way to tell the two apart. Like i said, i don't really know if there is one.

adameastment March 12th, 2015 4:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karma89 (Post 8652863)
Well, what can you do about it is the question? If everything is done correctly, is there even a way to trace it or distinguish it from a hack pokemon? I honestly don't know if there is, so thats why i ask. If there isn't a way to tell the two apart, then how can Game Freak actually stop it? Not saying there isn't a way to tell the two apart. Like i said, i don't really know if there is one.

No there isn't, I have one hacked Zekrom and one legit Zekrom - there are no differences between the two. The hacked one was given to me at level 70 and with the same moves as in game. The only way to distinguish is if the Pokemon has something that it shouldn't for instance a Mew Action Replay'd in 3rd Gen won't go through due to the OT etc. Other than the basic checks Game Freak do, there is no way.

Karma89 March 12th, 2015 4:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adameastment (Post 8652904)
No there isn't, I have one hacked Zekrom and one legit Zekrom - there are no differences between the two. The hacked one was given to me at level 70 and with the same moves as in game. The only way to distinguish is if the Pokemon has something that it shouldn't for instance a Mew Action Replay'd in 3rd Gen won't go through due to the OT etc. Other than the basic checks Game Freak do, there is no way.

I mean visually to us there isn't a way to tell if it was hacked or not. I've had a Hydreigon that had 2 Dragon Pulses on it. Thats how i knew it was hacked in personally. However, the question is, is there something in the coding of the hacked pokemon that Game Freak can find and use that as a filter?

Worldslayer608 March 14th, 2015 6:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karma89 (Post 8652919)
I mean visually to us there isn't a way to tell if it was hacked or not. I've had a Hydreigon that had 2 Dragon Pulses on it. Thats how i knew it was hacked in personally. However, the question is, is there something in the coding of the hacked pokemon that Game Freak can find and use that as a filter?

PokeGen modifies the memory of the game to create a "hacked Pokemon". You can modify every aspect of that pokemon, which means if you are paying attention to the details of the pokemon you are creating, and use accurate information that the game knows is legit - then you can pretty much bypass hack checks.

What this means is, while the pokemon are hacked - they are capped at whatever the perfect, legit version of that 'mon can be and so long as you did not alter anything in the memory which might hint that the pokemon is fake, such as a fake met location, then there is really just no way to tell.

I don't mind hacked pokemon. I can breed a perfect pokemon quite quickly and train it quickly as well. The annoying part, is part that really does nothing to dictate if they have an upper hand in battle, which is all the shiny version people do. It kills that special feel imo, and that is a buzz kill.

C'est la vie

1rl1yl March 23rd, 2015 10:34 AM

hack reliant teams.
 
What is it with this community? Not a single battle I enter can seem to beat me without a hacked team. Well guess what, I spent my past week training perfect pokemon for my team, NOT TO BE COUNTERED BY THESE HACKED ONES THAT YOU SPENT NO TIME AT ALL ON. I spend time and effort to get a team which can win fights, simply to be beaten by these hackers? I can see it now. Pokebank has RUINED THE GAME.

The game is 'unhackable', though, I hear you say.
Ok, so, when the enemy has a team of 6 shiny pokemon all perfect IV and move sets, sometimes moves that pokemon can't even learn, that's COMPLETELY legitimate. I mean, charizard with HYDRO PUMP. YEAH. SURE. LEGIT. GOT IT.

Take this example: My Ninjask substitutes and they switch. Fair enough. Shiny charizard. Sure. Ok, baton pass out to a water type to counter the charizard... Oh, leaf blade? Oh, LEAF BLADE? *Switches off DS and punches my own face in at how far down this hacking community has delved*

Not a single PSS battle I have entered was NOT hacked. So please, someone, let me have a GOOD, LEGITIMATE BATTLE. for ONE TIME.

Juxapose March 23rd, 2015 11:59 AM

See, I told you the trainers in PSS are using hacked Pokemon.

destinedjagold March 23rd, 2015 5:43 PM

Well, I did say that hacked 'mons can't be used in Battle Spot. Never did I mention that hacked 'mon can't be used in PSS battles.
Oh, and by Battle Spot, I mean in Ratings Battle. I don't play in Free Battles in Battle Spot since a lot of rage quitters are in there.

Mimikyu402 March 24th, 2015 5:36 AM

it is imposible to use pokemons with hacked stats online you know since they would be blocked

Gligar March 28th, 2015 12:21 AM

Didn't they take off that QR code hack? Come on Gamefreak, you're better than this. I did come up against a hacked team once, and believe it or not, I beat it with my Torterra and Raikou.

Cataclyptic April 16th, 2015 2:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juxapose (Post 8652750)
Well, here is the vid I promised. Please explain how Raikou outspeeds my Talonflame:

ZRQG-WWWW-WWXK-6S6K

Please note that my Talonflame has 195 speed. Raikou's max speed allowed is 183. You can clearly see in this video that it is NOT scarfed.

PS, I would also love to point out that hacking must be possible and allowed in Battle Spot considering Diancie and Hoopa has been kicking my butt long before they have been released. I don't even think Hoopa is released yet.

I cannot see the video yet since I'm at work but I think I know: Did you frisk the item Raikou had? Because its entirely possible it just had a quick claw. Instead of being hacked, you just got haxed. Or I could be wrong.

Karma89 April 16th, 2015 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cataclyptic (Post 8710503)
I cannot see the video yet since I'm at work but I think I know: Did you frisk the item Raikou had? Because its entirely possible it just had a quick claw. Instead of being hacked, you just got haxed. Or I could be wrong.

I looked at the video a while back. It had Leftovers rather than a Quick Claw.

The OP believes its a hack and that there is no other option. So....

Cataclyptic April 16th, 2015 8:10 PM

Oh it had lefties? Probably was hacked then unless a random trick room was set up.

I should point out that it is entirely possible to hack ORAS, that's how everyone knew about Hoopa Unbound before it was revealed. I am not however, aware of just how much hacking you are able to do in the game, but it might be possible to do the speed hack as posted in the video.

Back in gen 4, when I was testing the lomits of the then AR, I actually found out that you could do an infinite HP code and it would work in link battles. Same thing here but with speed?

One thing I do know is that Hoopa is unreleased to everyone in the world still, so those are all hacked for certain.

EDIT:

I found this http://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonPlaza/comments/2ti2ii/pokegenning_is_coming_to_gen_6_and_the_best_part/co00u1u after watching a video of how to hack ORAS.

It's more extensive than I imagined...no sign of how the Raikou outsped the talonflame, but twenty bucks says they found some way to do it. Maybe they found a way to make pokemon hold more than one item at once?

skyburial April 17th, 2015 9:23 AM

Alright well since no one seems to have mentioned him yet, if you want to see some hilarious hacked Pokemon footage, Pimpnite seems to have a penchant for finding obvious hackers on Battle Spot. Here are some of my favorites:

6 Final Gambit Blisseys (Blissey doesn't learn that move)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOBnW9EXjug

Contrary Deoxys (doesn't learn that ability)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDMwiYVSpCs

6 Megas on one team (not even close to possible even with Primals)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBLAKGOID4

I've actually run into a variant on the last one personally. Player had both Charizard megas, one of which was already mega evolved in team preview. Immediate sign of a hack.

K1ngQu33n April 18th, 2015 5:41 AM

Unfortunately people have to hack every Pokemon game.
Ever since Emerald was released as a ROM, there was way too many cheats. Even custom made cheats. Now if you go to even a general store like Gamestop/EB Games you can find Action Replay: PowerSaves.

It's just 20$!! See how easy it is?


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