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-   -   Pokemon That Would Work Well As Starters? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=356049)

Acecaldwell01 September 22nd, 2015 7:33 PM

Pokemon That Would Work Well As Starters?
 
Hey! Just wondering, if you were making a ROM hack, what would be your 3 starter pokemon to choose fron? ( not limited to 3 ) Mine would most likely be Ralts, Ghastly, and Eevee. What would yours be?

Deokishisu September 23rd, 2015 9:30 AM

I like to stick to the traditional starter trios, but there isn't any reason why, with some stat tweaking, other Pokemon wouldn't work. With Fairy, we have even more type triangles to take advantage of.

Fairy, Fighting, Steel would be interesting. Jigglypuff, Pancham, Bronzor? That has some fun dual-type interactions going on.

Here's a chart of potential type triangles from google:

Squeetz September 24th, 2015 4:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deokishisu (Post 8940215)
Here's a chart of potential type triangles from google:

Rock isn't super effective against Psychic, lol.
Also;
Quote:

other Pokemon wouldn't work.
You mean that with some stat tweaking, they would work, right?

Sirzechs September 24th, 2015 4:41 PM

I'd go for

Steel [Beldum] because Metagross is a legend
Dragon [Bagon] because Salamence is a boss
Ice [Spheal] because Walrein is a tank

partys over September 24th, 2015 5:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirzechs (Post 8941908)
I'd go for

Steel [Beldum] because Metagross is a legend
Dragon [Bagon] because Salamence is a boss
Ice [Spheal] because Walrein is a tank

Not really good reasoning, plus, have you looked at beldum's movepool?

Sirzechs September 24th, 2015 5:27 PM

Yes but even so Take down is quiet a strong move and can be a easy 1 hit kill

Urnighter September 25th, 2015 11:41 AM

But not a very enjoyable first 20 levels of in game play.

AeonPheonix4 September 25th, 2015 3:54 PM

Beldum could have its move pool edited, to be more in line with a Gible or Larvitar.

Quantum Thief September 25th, 2015 4:06 PM

Couple other things to consider:

1.) Fire/Water/Grass works amazingly well because each of those types resists the type that it is offensively strong against, and each type is also resistant to itself. I'm not aware of any other triangles that function quite so perfectly.'

2.) Fire/Water/Grass also have no immunities. When you look at Fighting/Psychic/Dark, Dark has a big advantage because it is immune to Psychic. Water/Ground/Electric is the same. Any triangle with Steel also has a sizable unbalance because Steel resists a ton of other types including Normal, which puts them at a sizable defensive advantage.

There's a reason I guess why Fire/Water/Grass has persisted for so many games. It's a very rigorously balanced triangle.

Deokishisu September 26th, 2015 3:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeetz (Post 8941211)
Rock isn't super effective against Psychic, lol.
Also;
You mean that with some stat tweaking, they would work, right?

Chart is just a random grab from Google, but you're right, that triangle doesn't work.

Spoiler:
Quote:

I like to stick to the traditional starter trios, but there isn't any reason why, with some stat tweaking, other Pokemon wouldn't work. With Fairy, we have even more type triangles to take advantage of.
Quote:

but there isn't any reason why, with some stat tweaking, other Pokemon wouldn't work.
Quote:

but there isn't any reason why ... other Pokemon wouldn't work.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Quantum Thief (Post 8943066)
Couple other things to consider:

1.) Fire/Water/Grass works amazingly well because each of those types resists the type that it is offensively strong against, and each type is also resistant to itself. I'm not aware of any other triangles that function quite so perfectly.'

2.) Fire/Water/Grass also have no immunities. When you look at Fighting/Psychic/Dark, Dark has a big advantage because it is immune to Psychic. Water/Ground/Electric is the same. Any triangle with Steel also has a sizable unbalance because Steel resists a ton of other types including Normal, which puts them at a sizable defensive advantage.

There's a reason I guess why Fire/Water/Grass has persisted for so many games. It's a very rigorously balanced triangle.

This is one of the reasons I like to stick with the traditional starters. It's difficult to get another triangle synergizing well without hitting really specific Pokemon with dual-types/niche abilities that cancel out any primary type advantages. Though, I suppose the Fighting/Psychic/Dark triangle we had going in Gen 6 really put Delphox at a disadvantage, so GameFreak does occasionally superpower one of the starters against the others. All the water starters can learn Ice Beam to break the triangle as well.

---

Here's a thought, most of these problems are eliminated by offering only two starters. I remember a hack way way waaaaay back when I started on this forum that gave the player the choice between Nidoran [m] and Nidoran [f]. Counterparts like Vullaby/Rufflet, Volbeat/Illumise, Plusle/Minun, etc. are decent choices. Gastly/Abra could be interesting type-wise (if you gave Abra some moves) as they're both supereffective to each other. Two dragons (Goomy and... Deino?) work too. Two that start off as the same type, but gain different dual-types upon evolution? Or one Pokemon having a favorable type matchup to start with, but they both gain a type upon evolution that turns the tables. Slugma/Seel is a poor example, but it illustrates the concept.

What do you think?

Marugi October 17th, 2015 7:49 AM

What do you guys think about pichu, horsea, and larvitar? (with horsea's evolution changed to level up)

Urist McHemlock October 17th, 2015 7:59 AM

Considering that 6th gen introduced fairy types, we have a new triangle.
Fighting, Steel and Fairy.

Danny0317 October 17th, 2015 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marugi (Post 8968578)
What do you guys think about pichu, horsea, and larvitar? (with horsea's evolution changed to level up)

Unless you'd be changing stats, ignore this.

I don't really like it... Larvitar would end up being stronger than the others, and Pichu's line isn't particularly strong..

Marugi October 17th, 2015 4:41 PM

Yeah, I agree Tyranitar is just too powerful compared to kingdra and raichu. I could replace tyranitar with golem, but golem is kind of a common pokemon, which means that I would have to make geodudes rare in the wild.

partys over October 18th, 2015 8:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urist McHemlock (Post 8968590)
Considering that 6th gen introduced fairy types, we have a new triangle.
Fighting, Steel and Fairy.

Early game steel types are way too good, have you ever played a randomizer? For a long time they resist basically everything thrown at them.

Urist McHemlock October 18th, 2015 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frog (Post 8969831)
Early game steel types are way too good, have you ever played a randomizer? For a long time they resist basically everything thrown at them.

That's why we give them another type at the final evolution.

PiGreat October 18th, 2015 11:32 AM

I guess I might as well post this here: the starters in my hack are gonna be Sandile, Machop (or maybe Timburr) and Gothita. Is this okay? I'm most likely gonna be editing base stats and such like.

Vendily October 19th, 2015 12:31 PM

Dragonflycave.com has a type tool that can calculate type triangles.
These are all the triangles that appeared where Type X is super effective against Type Y and Type Y is weak against Type X, like the Grass, Water, Fire combination.

ArminRocks1442 October 23rd, 2015 10:04 PM

Since I hack fire red I think Pikachu, Eevee, and dratini (I'm not sure about dratini though. Maybe I'll change it to Ghastly or Wooper.)

Tur8o October 28th, 2015 9:59 AM

Hitmonlee

Oloolooloo! November 3rd, 2015 1:11 PM

XD: Gales of Darkness gave the player Eevee without any choice, then introduced an early game NPC handing out evolution stones. You could expand on this idea with new Eevee evolutions.

Splash November 4th, 2015 7:36 AM

Steel, Dragon, Fairy ftw!

TitaniumPikaNinj November 9th, 2015 5:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acecaldwell01 (Post 8939559)
Hey! Just wondering, if you were making a ROM hack, what would be your 3 starter pokemon to choose fron? ( not limited to 3 ) Mine would most likely be Ralts, Ghastly, and Eevee. What would yours be?

I would do all dragon types, but not too strong like gible, dratini, bagon

InfamousX November 9th, 2015 8:23 PM

Ralts, Gastly, and Togepi work pretty well. they all have 3 stage evolutions and can counter each other in interesting ways.

Canadianfella12 November 13th, 2015 2:58 PM

Tyrougue. Elekid. And last but not least tentacool


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