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-   -   Other Differences between emerald and fire red? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=357734)

BremFM October 29th, 2015 7:55 AM

Differences between emerald and fire red?
 
Hi.

I am planning on making a hack, however, I am still vicillating wether to base a hack on emerald or on fire red.

What are the major differences? What are some good/usefull rom bases out there, for any of those? What do you recommend me to make a hack for?

Kind regards,
BremFM.

Sensual October 29th, 2015 5:17 PM

Written by Joexv
Quote:

FR Pros:
More documentation thus more routines being made for it.
Title screen is far more customizable.
Expanding the Pokemon is vastly easier due to G3HS
Has rival naming
Expanding Overworlds has been done.(Em is being worked on by Touched in DSLN)
Has those cool Landon/may ow sprites.
Has Jpans hacked engine and Mrdollsteaks bases.
Player OW changing has been made and finished

Cons:
Its FR(lol jk)
Tilesets dont have a set size(afaik) like in Em both main and sec tilesets are the same sizes FR's wont be.
removing rival naming is a pain.

Em Pros:
Much funner to hack, in that you have to figure stuff out for yourself. No FR hackers gonna wanna help you and there arent very many EM hackers so the community is small but lovely.
Titlescreen can glow.
No need to remove Rival naming if you dont want that.
MUCH more overworld palettes by default. Both games can be expanded for palettes but if you don't want to hassle that then go EM.
I hack Em, thus everyone who matters hacks Em.
We now have the 650 base(which is awesome btw)
has dive and tall grass in by default
Multiple bikes
Berry system by default
RTC by default

Em Cons:
The default overworlds are ugly.
More doc on FR
Changing the "Pokemon" logo location on the title screen is a pain in the ass.(nearly impossible)
DLSN isnt finished yet.
Expanding pokemon is a pain,(but we have 650 patch so you really dont need to)
Check out JPANs hacked engine if you decide on FireRed.

Blah October 29th, 2015 5:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensual (Post 8980328)
Written by Joexv
FR Pros:
More documentation thus more routines being made for it.
Title screen is far more customizable.
Expanding the Pokemon is vastly easier due to G3HS
Has rival naming
Expanding Overworlds has been done.(Em is being worked on by Touched in DSLN)
Has those cool Landon/may ow sprites.
Has Jpans hacked engine and Mrdollsteaks bases.
Player OW changing has been made and finished

Cons:
Its FR(lol jk)
Tilesets dont have a set size(afaik) like in Em both main and sec tilesets are the same sizes FR's wont be.
removing rival naming is a pain.

mfw cons aren't actually cons. Removing rival naming = 4 bytes to change in a hex editor. Yes, you literally redirect a callback pointer.

Quote:


Em Pros:
Much funner to hack, in that you have to figure stuff out for yourself. No FR hackers gonna wanna help you and there arent very many EM hackers so the community is small but lovely.
wtf did I just read. All the biggest resources and research on this forum are done by FR hackers. How in the world will they not help you out, the questions threads are right around the corner too. Come on man, you've come to ME multiple times for ASM hacks, and I've helped you. Yet here you are saying we're not helpful. :(

Also this is not a pro for EM. Emerald hacking mostly consists of looking at things people have hacked in FR and then porting them. Literally 90% of EM hacks are ports of FR hacks done by FR hackers. I'd hardly call porting a lot of fun, nor do I think spending hours on end doing aimless research is fun. Who are the actual ASM EM hackers in the scene? I only know of Kleenexfeu who's mostly a battle-related hacker.

Quote:

Titlescreen can glow.
In all versions.

Quote:

No need to remove Rival naming if you dont want that.
"The feature not existing means you don't have to remove it!" Come on...

Quote:

MUCH more overworld palettes by default. Both games can be expanded for palettes but if you don't want to hassle that then go EM.
You can expand that, kind of easily. Infact, I don't think EM has a port of the NPC Pal expansion hack which was made for FR.

Quote:

I hack Em, thus everyone who matters hacks Em.
We now have the 650 base(which is awesome btw)
That doesn't compare to the FR bases, not even remotely. Also, what have you contributed to the EM hacking scene to make your existence a big reason for hacking EM?

Quote:

has dive and tall grass in by default
Few byte changes. FR has dive in the code, you just need to use it. Most people don't know how because most people aren't hackers, they're scripters.

Quote:

Multiple bikes
Berry system by default
RTC by default
Ported features shouldn't even be listed as reasons to pick one base over another.

Quote:

Em Cons:
The default overworlds are ugly.
More doc on FR
Changing the "Pokemon" logo location on the title screen is a pain in the ass.(nearly impossible)
DLSN isnt finished yet.
Expanding pokemon is a pain,(but we have 650 patch so you really dont need to)

Check out JPANs hacked engine if you decide on FireRed.
ugh, those cons aren't even cons. The Pokemon Logo is easily changed if you know how to use a hex editor. Some tools suck, and always have.

JPAN's engine needs an update if you ask me. This is a poor list because is consists of 90% facepalm.

Here is the real list of pro's and cons:

FR:
- lots of documentation and tutorials
- available resources are significantly more, I'd say about 20x more
- default graphics look cleaner (imo atleast)


EM:
- 3 AI + 1 Player battles, like battle at Mossdeep
- Contest
- Base Battle Frontier


Even here, I've ported a lot of the good beef of the Battle Frontier to FR. So just looking at the bases themselves, if you want to ASM/C or do some real hacking FR is the way to go. It will remain the superior base for real hacking until someone makes a new Knizz's IDB except for EM. FR is also much easier to script for since the RAM addresses are better mapped, allowing you to manipulate the engine better.

If you're looking for something with 2v2 battle potential, contests and an already implemented BF go for EM. If you're looking for cool ASM routines, development, or help go for FR - because right now the EM ASM hacks are almost solely ports of FR stuff. Cheers~


Just to clarify, tilesets will have a limit in size regardless of base. Expanding the size of tilesets is not a simple matter, as map editors currently don't even load the tileset correctly when it's expanded (sad, sad).

Sensual October 29th, 2015 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBI (Post 8980370)
mfw cons aren't actually cons. Removing rival naming = 4 bytes to change in a hex editor. Yes, you literally redirect a callback pointer.


wtf did I just read. All the biggest resources and research on this forum are done by FR hackers. How in the world will they not help you out, the questions threads are right around the corner too. Come on man, you've come to ME multiple times for ASM hacks, and I've helped you. Yet here you are saying we're not helpful. :(

Like I said, not written by me. I was just passing on the information I was given when I asked this same question a little while ago.

Trust me, FBI, I appreciate your help lol.

Sniper October 29th, 2015 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBI (Post 8980370)
mfw cons aren't actually cons. Removing rival naming = 4 bytes to change in a hex editor. Yes, you literally redirect a callback pointer.


wtf did I just read. All the biggest resources and research on this forum are done by FR hackers. How in the world will they not help you out, the questions threads are right around the corner too. Come on man, you've come to ME multiple times for ASM hacks, and I've helped you. Yet here you are saying we're not helpful. :(

Also this is not a pro for EM. Emerald hacking mostly consists of looking at things people have hacked in FR and then porting them. Literally 90% of EM hacks are ports of FR hacks done by FR hackers. I'd hardly call porting a lot of fun, nor do I think spending hours on end doing aimless research is fun. Who are the actual ASM EM hackers in the scene? I only know of Kleenexfeu who's mostly a battle-related hacker.


In all versions.


"The feature not existing means you don't have to remove it!" Come on...


You can expand that, kind of easily. Infact, I don't think EM has a port of the NPC Pal expansion hack which was made for FR.


That doesn't compare to the FR bases, not even remotely. Also, what have you contributed to the EM hacking scene to make your existence a big reason for hacking EM?


Few byte changes. FR has dive in the code, you just need to use it. Most people don't know how because most people aren't hackers, they're scripters.


Ported features shouldn't even be listed as reasons to pick one base over another.



ugh, those cons aren't even cons. The Pokemon Logo is easily changed if you know how to use a hex editor. Some tools suck, and always have.

JPAN's engine needs an update if you ask me. This is a poor list because is consists of 90% facepalm.

Here is the real list of pro's and cons:

FR:
- lots of documentation and tutorials
- available resources are significantly more, I'd say about 20x more
- default graphics look cleaner (imo atleast)


EM:
- 3 AI + 1 Player battles, like battle at Mossdeep
- Contest
- Base Battle Frontier


Even here, I've ported a lot of the good beef of the Battle Frontier to FR. So just looking at the bases themselves, if you want to ASM/C or do some real hacking FR is the way to go. It will remain the superior base for real hacking until someone makes a new Knizz's IDB except for EM. FR is also much easier to script for since the RAM addresses are better mapped, allowing you to manipulate the engine better.

If you're looking for something with 2v2 battle potential, contests and an already implemented BF go for EM. If you're looking for cool ASM routines, development, or help go for FR - because right now the EM ASM hacks are almost solely ports of FR stuff. Cheers~


Just to clarify, tilesets will have a limit in size regardless of base. Expanding the size of tilesets is not a simple matter, as map editors currently don't even load the tileset correctly when it's expanded (sad, sad).

This is a better info, I'll rely on these thanks

BremFM October 30th, 2015 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBI (Post 8980370)
mfw cons aren't actually cons. Removing rival naming = 4 bytes to change in a hex editor. Yes, you literally redirect a callback pointer.


wtf did I just read. All the biggest resources and research on this forum are done by FR hackers. How in the world will they not help you out, the questions threads are right around the corner too. Come on man, you've come to ME multiple times for ASM hacks, and I've helped you. Yet here you are saying we're not helpful. :(

Also this is not a pro for EM. Emerald hacking mostly consists of looking at things people have hacked in FR and then porting them. Literally 90% of EM hacks are ports of FR hacks done by FR hackers. I'd hardly call porting a lot of fun, nor do I think spending hours on end doing aimless research is fun. Who are the actual ASM EM hackers in the scene? I only know of Kleenexfeu who's mostly a battle-related hacker.


In all versions.


"The feature not existing means you don't have to remove it!" Come on...


You can expand that, kind of easily. Infact, I don't think EM has a port of the NPC Pal expansion hack which was made for FR.


That doesn't compare to the FR bases, not even remotely. Also, what have you contributed to the EM hacking scene to make your existence a big reason for hacking EM?


Few byte changes. FR has dive in the code, you just need to use it. Most people don't know how because most people aren't hackers, they're scripters.


Ported features shouldn't even be listed as reasons to pick one base over another.



ugh, those cons aren't even cons. The Pokemon Logo is easily changed if you know how to use a hex editor. Some tools suck, and always have.

JPAN's engine needs an update if you ask me. This is a poor list because is consists of 90% facepalm.

Here is the real list of pro's and cons:

FR:
- lots of documentation and tutorials
- available resources are significantly more, I'd say about 20x more
- default graphics look cleaner (imo atleast)


EM:
- 3 AI + 1 Player battles, like battle at Mossdeep
- Contest
- Base Battle Frontier


Even here, I've ported a lot of the good beef of the Battle Frontier to FR. So just looking at the bases themselves, if you want to ASM/C or do some real hacking FR is the way to go. It will remain the superior base for real hacking until someone makes a new Knizz's IDB except for EM. FR is also much easier to script for since the RAM addresses are better mapped, allowing you to manipulate the engine better.

If you're looking for something with 2v2 battle potential, contests and an already implemented BF go for EM. If you're looking for cool ASM routines, development, or help go for FR - because right now the EM ASM hacks are almost solely ports of FR stuff. Cheers~


Just to clarify, tilesets will have a limit in size regardless of base. Expanding the size of tilesets is not a simple matter, as map editors currently don't even load the tileset correctly when it's expanded (sad, sad).

Probably once again a dumb question; but what is ASM? I've read about it but I simply thought it was another word for XSE scripts.

I mostly want to make a hack with really cool graphics, and a lot of custom tiles. As well as a completely re-written story, removing the whole rival/yourself naming and gender choosing. You will be forced to play as a male character with a pre-set name, and will spawn in a beach instead of inside that truck. How would I do this? I think I'm going to hack for Emerald anyways.

Blah October 30th, 2015 6:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensual (Post 8980586)
Like I said, not written by me. I was just passing on the information I was given when I asked this same question a little while ago.

Trust me, FBI, I appreciate your help lol.

Yeah, I was mainly talking to Joe. At the time I was very disappointed about how poor the comparisons between the two were made, nothing was directed at you :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BremFM (Post 8980669)
Probably once again a dumb question; but what is ASM? I've read about it but I simply thought it was another word for XSE scripts.

I mostly want to make a hack with really cool graphics, and a lot of custom tiles. As well as a completely re-written story, removing the whole rival/yourself naming and gender choosing. You will be forced to play as a male character with a pre-set name, and will spawn in a beach instead of inside that truck. How would I do this? I think I'm going to hack for Emerald anyways.

No, it's not a stupid question. Sure, you can google "What is ASM", and you'll get a textbook definition, defining it much better than I ever could, but perhaps you'd appretiate it if I answered the question in context of GBA hacking.

The Pokemon GBA games are programmed in C. We have dumps of these games which we can read using a hex editor. These "dumps" are fully compiled&assembled code. C code is first compiled into ASM code and that is assembled into the machine code we see in the hex editor (this process was probably done all at once, that's the general idea).

ASM, which stands for Assembly, is also a programming language, but on a much lower level. To clear some confusion, by low level, I don't mean that it's easy, I mean that it interacts with the hardware much closer. Anyways, the conversion from Hex (the ROM dump) to ASM is a rather simple problem to solve and it's easily converted. This is why a lot of hackers who hack the game engine would be hacking in ASM, that and some of the concepts and intuition behind coding in C for the GBA is non-intuitive, since you're coding using the static libraries in the game and things like casting functions and static addr pointers become more challenging. Unfortunately, going from ASM -> C is definitely not as easy. To this day, we don't have any resource, for any ROM, which can be called 1:1 C code of what was originally developed by GameFreak outside a few functions which we've worked on. Even still, the best we can do is guess how it was written and try to have the compiled C behave and compile into the ASM. For these reasons, when working on small to medium sized projects, most hackers will use ASM. The ASM and C required to do things become exponentially easier if you have a well documented IDB - thus the motivation of picking FR if you're going to be doing ASM or C programming :)

That wasn't really a good answer to your question of "What is ASM?", but I thought I'd provide some background of some of the problems which programmers will face when hacking games in the GBA. For a more "honed" definition and introduction, I'd like to redirect you to the link in my signature titled "ASM tutorials", take a look at the easiest one (don't worry about reading the inserting ASM one, yet).


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