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-   -   2016 US Presidential Elections Thread [Trump Wins] (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=362353)

0 November 9th, 2016 2:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taro Tanaka (Post 9481553)
...There goes the country.

Eh, well, you seem like an ok dude. I don't wanna argue with you.

Won't get as bad as you think, but be prepared. I am getting prepared too, just incase riots and shit.

Caaethil November 9th, 2016 2:35 PM

The backlash here is beyond unwarranted. It's like Brexit all over again. What I expected would happen if Trump won, honestly. I think Trump was the better of the two options, guess I'm a neo-nazi now.

Somewhere_ November 9th, 2016 2:41 PM

Some of my Clinton supporter peers in school were pretty triggered, but most of them accepted it. One of my friends was super triggered. I didnt even try to poke him; it was pretty funny actually xD

For some reason the hardcore Trump people were extra cancerous. I try to stay neutral in debates at school because its more interesting and I can challenge both sides.

This statement was actually pro-Trump, where I said in response to some Trump guys "Hillary Clinton and Obama know exactly what they are doing, and that is why I do not support them."

For some reason they could not comprehend that I wasn't being contradictory and could not accept that maybe Clinton and Obama aren't idiots.

Esper November 9th, 2016 2:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonibros (Post 9481514)
>Bernie
>Authentic

He played you suckers like a fiddle. He was in it for the money, plain and simple.
Energizes young voters, you know the young high school sophomores that hate the man and all that.

http://www.kappit.com/img/pics/201602_1723_gdhec_sm.jpg

Like, you can hate Bernie or whatever. That's your choice. But there's not even a shadow of a whiff of evidence that he was looking to make money off of this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonibros (Post 9481514)
Trump created his own success, regardless of what people say about somehow investing his starting capital into stocks or whatever. He didn't, instead he created a hotel chain and a retail business that generated him billions. Sure, he probably how he had to shut down smaller real estate businesses, but that is how business works. Not saying I like it, but that's how things are, and he did a pretty good job of building his own empire.

Multiple bankruptcies, failed casinos, and it all needed a yuge loan from daddy moneybags or it would never have had a chance. Failure of a legitimate businessman is what Trump is. Successful snake oil salesman / general con artist? Yeah, that's true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadSheep (Post 9481566)
Can we not call all Trump supporters racists? I do not like being piled into that category.

Sure, most racists probably voted Trump. But the great majority of Trump supporters are not racists. He is a populist that appeals to fears, and psychologically, he drew those underlying fears out. So lets not act like all Trump supporters are racist or this was whitelash or anything like that. Trump also got more of the black and hispanic vote than Romney did.

Lets instead analyze the actual reasons he was elected president. not these petty excuses.

I already covered that Trump is a populist, which gives him quite the edge. But he also appealed to many blue collar workers in the midwest feel that they have been negatively affected by "free trade" deals. Trump promised to fix that.

It's hard to keep from calling Trump supporters racist though. You can understand that, right? Given all the overly racial things surrounding his campaign.

But the reasons, yeah, that's important to figure out so that we can stop this from happening again. Trump definitely played on white middle America's fears. The wall. No Muslim immigration. That's the kind of authoritarian populism that works when you've got a large group afraid of "the other". A housemate of a friend (a moderate conservative) was told that here in California white people aren't even 50% of the population and her response was "It's like it's not even our country anymore." That was her unabashed, unscripted response. Now, she's no Klan member or anything like that, but that's the kind of response I think runs through a lot of Americans' minds. That their country is becoming not their country. There's a worrying underlying idea with that mindset, one that assumes that non-whites don't really "belong" the way white people do, and Trump was tapping into it with his vaguely racist remarks and proposals.

And then you add to that the populist economic talk. Bring back the jobs, stop the unfair trade deals, protect American workers. It's a plea to fairness. It's a simple idea. Fair and simple is a good combo for getting your message across. It still ties in to the vaguely anti-other sentiments (Mexico took our jobs, China took our manufacturing) with the associated racial implication, but since it's not directly pitting one group of Americans against another it can be more appealing to a wider group. The message is still, overall, about fairness. There's a kind of narrative element at play, too. We used to be the best, but then bad people hurt us and we're going to get revenge of a sort by taking out stuff back. It makes people feel justified in their anger and it gives them a target for their anger. That target was the establishment.

Which brings us to the other element of his success: the view of politics in the country. People have been upset by politics for a while. There was the rise of the Tea Party a few years ago, one of the first big cracks in the way the major parties operate. The breakdown among the Republican party leadership let some crazy types different kinds into the party (let's call them "non-traditional politicians") so that there was fractured leadership and direction. That made the Republican field in the primaries crowded so that someone like Trump, who normally wouldn't last long, get a chance because he was only one of a few who wasn't acting like things were still normal within the party. The massive media coverage of Trump was enough to get his candidacy more attention than the few other non-traditional candidates (like Ben Carson).

Add to that the relative weakness of Clinton (for some of the same reasons regarding corporate sponsorship/politics-as-usual) and you've got an upset like we saw.

Kanzler November 9th, 2016 2:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadSheep (Post 9481566)
Can we not call all Trump supporters racists? I do not like being piled into that category.

This is why Trump won the election. Offend the middle and working class White American all you want, and you'll make sure they'll be in the ballot booth against you election after election.

Aliencommander1245 November 9th, 2016 2:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonibros (Post 9481545)
Not for me. I have observed how the lesser beings of each population have acted, and their numbers, and compared to whites, the ratio of blacks being less civilized is pretty great. So, I base my observation on what I can observe, which is that I should guard myself when I see a group of such people in wife beater shirts, walking down the street. Even if they are completely harmless, I have no idea where they come from or where they are going, and I'd rather guard myself against any perceived threat. Better safe then sorry.

What the... what?! Black people are uncivilised "lesser beings"????

To start off with this burning dumpster fire of an opinion- it's not even related to the thing that's been said.
"Minorities have genuine fear founded in reality"
"Well i'm not fearful and also black people are worse than white people because i don't understand history"

Is just... so, so strange to see. I don't even know where to start on that awfully racist idea of less civilised savages, but rest assured the entire thing you've said there is false and not grounded in reality at all. Not to mention that that's just one minority, and you've only just made the point presented stronger through your offensive words and wrong information

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caaethil (Post 9481593)
I think Trump was the better of the two options, guess I'm a neo-nazi now.

No, you're just politically unaware and completely swindled by his lies and rhetoric


Quote:

Originally Posted by BadSheep (Post 9481566)
Can we not call all Trump supporters racists? I do not like being piled into that category.

Sure, most racists probably voted Trump. But the great majority of Trump supporters are not racists. He is a populist that appeals to fears, and psychologically, he drew those underlying fears out. So lets not act like all Trump supporters are racist or this was whitelash or anything like that. Trump also got more of the black and hispanic vote than Romney did.

The problem is that you're right- they're not all racists, and you're probably not racist either.

But you did knowingly support one, they all knowingly supported one. Is supporting a racist, a homophobe, a xenophobic misogynist different from holding those views yourself? When his platform was built upon those ideals of bigotry, and padded with lies and vague statements adorned with objectively bad policies, can you really be absolved of anything on that front?

Isn't it worse to support someone like that when you don't consider yourself any of the negative things he is than it is for the KKK to support Trump?

Grey Wind November 9th, 2016 2:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadSheep (Post 9481599)
Some of my Clinton supporter peers in school were pretty triggered, but most of them accepted it. One of my friends was super triggered. I didnt even try to poke him; it was pretty funny actually xD

Top kek...


Quote:

Originally Posted by Esper
It's hard to keep from calling Trump supporters racist though. You can understand that, right? Given all the overly racial things surrounding his campaign.

Yeah, I really hate the "oh it's just a buzzword!" mentality. I think calling people racist for supporting a man who has been blatantly anti black, Muslim and Latino at every turn is fair game.

User19sq November 9th, 2016 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Wind (Post 9481611)
Yeah, I really hate the "oh it's just a buzzword!" mentality. I think calling people racist for supporting a man who has been blatantly anti black, Muslim and Latino at every turn is fair game.

Does show how desperate Americans were with ridding the status quo. I just sat and spoke with an old professor of mine and came to this agreement: I don't mind giving the highest power to an outsider, but why did it have to be this outsider?!

El Héroe Oscuro November 9th, 2016 3:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanzler (Post 9481603)
This is why Trump won the election. Offend the middle and working class White American all you want, and you'll make sure they'll be in the ballot booth against you election after election.

Same could really say about minorities, like the Latino population. With all of his comments about building a wall, the Latino voter showed up in record numbers this election. Obviously the White American population outnumbers the above, but a point nonetheless.

Pinkie-Dawn November 9th, 2016 3:21 PM

So guys, I think this may be part of a reason why Trump won the election. About 11,000 citizens voted for a dead gorilla over Clinton and Trump.

Kanzler November 9th, 2016 3:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer (Post 9481633)
Same could really say about minorities, like the Latino population. With all of his comments about building a wall, the Latino voter showed up in record numbers this election. Obviously the White American population outnumbers the above, but a point nonetheless.

Ironic thing is, that Trump did better among Latino voters than Romney. People are saying that one of the reasons he won Florida was from an outstanding turnout of Latino voters for Trump. When Trump says it's the Mexicans who are coming in with drugs, crime, and rape, I don't think that the Puerto Rican or Cuban American thinks he's talking about them. Now he obviously didn't get more Latino votes than Clinton, but he did well enough to deny her Florida, at least.

User19sq November 9th, 2016 3:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn (Post 9481637)
So guys, I think this may be part of a reason why Trump won the election. About 11,000 citizens voted for a dead gorilla over Clinton and Trump.

I've been unzipped since last night. The anxiety farts from this election couldn't be contained any longer...
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer (Post 9481633)
Same could really say about minorities, like the Latino population. With all of his comments about building a wall, the Latino voter showed up in record numbers this election. Obviously the White American population outnumbers the above, but a point nonetheless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanzler (Post 9481639)
Ironic thing is, that Trump did better among Latino voters than Romney. People are saying that one of the reasons he won Florida was from an outstanding turnout of Latino voters for Trump. When Trump says it's the Mexicans who are coming in with drugs, crime, and rape, I don't think that the Puerto Rican or Cuban American thinks he's talking about them. Now he obviously didn't get more Latino votes than Clinton, but he did well enough to deny her Florida, at least.

Is it just me, or does this look like the minorities who are proud of turning out in record numbers are sill not enough to put up concern for the majority? There's obviously more Caucasians than anything, but this is still a bit of a scary thought... ; ^;

Esper November 9th, 2016 3:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn (Post 9481637)
So guys, I think this may be part of a reason why Trump won the election. About 11,000 citizens voted for a dead gorilla over Clinton and Trump.

If those were all in the swing states, yeah, but if that happened in Mississippi, California, or places like that then it wouldn't have mattered if twice that many voted for Deez Nuts.

Now, if we abandoned the electoral college altogether...

Seems as though it's a hoax in any case.

User19sq November 9th, 2016 3:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esper (Post 9481645)
If those were all in the swing states, yeah, but if that happened in Mississippi, California, or places like that then it wouldn't have mattered if twice that many voted for Deez Nuts.

Now, if we abandoned the electoral college altogether...

...Clinton would've won in an incredibly-close race by popular vote.

El Héroe Oscuro November 9th, 2016 4:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanzler (Post 9481639)
Ironic thing is, that Trump did better among Latino voters than Romney. People are saying that one of the reasons he won Florida was from an outstanding turnout of Latino voters for Trump. When Trump says it's the Mexicans who are coming in with drugs, crime, and rape, I don't think that the Puerto Rican or Cuban American thinks he's talking about them. Now he obviously didn't get more Latino votes than Clinton, but he did well enough to deny her Florida, at least.

Yeah I remember reading that and thinking that was mind boggling. I find it very hard to wrap my head around the fact that those demographics mentioned didn't think Trump was addressing them too. But yeah, I don't know...I really, really don't think that building a wall is the answer - and it's even more crazy to think that a lot of other countries have walls as well - but at the same time, you do need to address the illegal immigration issue but I can't think of another solution unfortunately.

Sektor November 9th, 2016 4:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer (Post 9481672)
Yeah I remember reading that and thinking that was mind boggling. I find it very hard to wrap my head around the fact that those demographics mentioned didn't think Trump was addressing them too. But yeah, I don't know...I really, really don't think that building a wall is the answer - and it's even more crazy to think that a lot of other countries have walls as well - but at the same time, you do need to address the illegal immigration issue but I can't think of another solution unfortunately.

Maybe a wall isn't the answer, but I do agree that immigration reform is needed, especially if refugees want to enter the country. There is a real need to screen those that do show up in the country. Think of it like going to the airport and the TSA. You don't really like it, but you do it anyway. Shouldn't everyone go through the same channels?

El Héroe Oscuro November 9th, 2016 4:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDJacket (Post 9481677)
Maybe a wall isn't the answer, but I do agree that immigration reform is needed, especially if refugees want to enter the country. There is a real need to screen those that do show up in the country. Think of it like going to the airport and the TSA. You don't really like it, but you do it anyway. Shouldn't everyone go through the same channels?

Definitely, just like the way it was in the old days with Ellis Island. The big question, however, is what you do with the illegal immigrants who are already in the country. Yes, if you build a wall you'll stop the bleeding and make new immigrants go through a system, but what do you about the other part of the problem: do you deport illegal immigrants who are already over the border and make them go through the right protocol, or do you let them stay in the country, make them go through the procedure to become citizens, and possibly decentivize them if they don't oblige in some way? That's the real issue.

Aliencommander1245 November 9th, 2016 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDJacket (Post 9481677)
Maybe a wall isn't the answer, but I do agree that immigration reform is needed, especially if refugees want to enter the country. There is a real need to screen those that do show up in the country. Think of it like going to the airport and the TSA. You don't really like it, but you do it anyway. Shouldn't everyone go through the same channels?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U-t3GetV_Q

There IS a screening process and it's a very, very long winded and indepth system

Kanzler November 9th, 2016 5:26 PM

Has this quote been mentioned in the thread already? It's a good one, and sums up much of the confusion surrounding this election quite well:

Quote:

The press takes Trump literally, but not seriously; his supporters take Trump seriously, but not literally.

Somewhere_ November 9th, 2016 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanzler (Post 9481603)
This is why Trump won the election. Offend the middle and working class White American all you want, and you'll make sure they'll be in the ballot booth against you election after election.

This is exactly right. The thing about populism is that a character attack on Trump is taken as a character attack on the supporter, which drives them to the polls. Kind weird, right?

And I think @Esper hit the nail on the head about the fears thing.

And I do not believe Trump is racist. Just because you (Aliencommander) think that Trump is racist does not mean that I am suddenly immoral for supporting him. And I also believe Hillary is a racist as well. Im not freaking racist. I wish there was a better candidate than Trump, but there isn't. He was the lesser of two evils in my opinion. So just because I support an "evil" does not make me any more evil than you who supports the other less of two evils.

Kanzler November 9th, 2016 5:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadSheep (Post 9481748)
This is exactly right. The thing about populism is that a character attack on Trump is taken as a character attack on the supporter, which drives them to the polls. Kind weird, right?

You know, I would go even further and say that there genuine attacks on the character of Trump supporters: they're racists, they're uneducated, they hate women, they're deplorable (and some, I assume, are good people).

Somewhere_ November 9th, 2016 5:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanzler (Post 9481755)
You know, I would go even further and say that there genuine attacks on the character of Trump supporters: they're racists, they're uneducated, they hate women, they're deplorable (and some, I assume, are good people).

I like what you did there. xD

Seriously though there is truth to your statement. some Trump supporters ARE racists. I would wager most racists probably voted Trump (I used to not think that, but i have been convinced otherwise). Trump attracted the uneducated male vote. Probably the same with the sexists. Deplorable is subjective.

But a lot of Trump voters voted out of hatred for Hillary. One of the benefits of Trump is that he is not Hillary.

I guess you could also say that one of the benefits of Hillary was that she was not Trump.

I hate to have to repeat this again, but I am not a racist. Please dont think of me as one. This should really go without saying. I hate racism and its terrible and it has lead to some of the most awful deeds.

Sir Codin November 9th, 2016 6:02 PM

On the concept of moving out because of Trump, it's sadly not that simple. Many countries in Europe are already salty about the wave of refugees from the middle east, they're certainly not going to be willing to take on waves of "typical Americans." Same probably goes for New Zealand, Canada, and the land down under. Even if you have marketable skills, you will still face a lot of competition not just from locals, but also other would-be immigrants.

Even if you can move, there's still not only the problem of brain drain for the United States (really, if you think it's bad now, all the educated people leaving will make things worse), but also reputation.

Face it: America is a laughing stock. It's been a laughing stock since Bush at latest and it's only continued to get worse despite Obama's best efforts, which will no doubt come under threat of reversion under a Trump regime. The increase in social upheaval and gun violence doesn't help either, if the consternation of many people here on PokeComm outside of America in the numerous threads have been any indication.

Ultimately you're fucked anyway if you move out. What's done is done. You will still be seen as part of the country that elected a man like Trump as it's leader, with all the ridicule and hatred that implies. Europeans and other Western nations weren't very kind to American guests during Bush; what makes you think they'll be any nicer to American IMMIGRANTS who are coming from the same country with an even more divisive leader?

Aliencommander1245 November 9th, 2016 6:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadSheep (Post 9481768)
But a lot of Trump voters voted out of hatred for Hillary. One of the benefits of Trump is that he is not Hillary.

I guess you could also say that one of the benefits of Hillary was that she was not Trump.

I hate to have to repeat this again, but I am not a racist. Please dont think of me as one. This should really go without saying. I hate racism and its terrible and it has lead to some of the most awful deeds.

But, you supported one. That's the issue. You might not be racist yourself, but you knowingly supported a man who was not only racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynistic ect ect ect who had a political platform that included that.

"It wasn't hillary" isn't a valid excuse when you knew who he was and what his platform was and supported him anyway.

This is effectively throwing minorities under the bus. Regardless of if you think you're racist or not, you supported a man who is to try and put in policies of which more than several are racist. Does this make you worse than someone who is racist and supported him, though, is my question to you? Is it worse that despite not thinking this way about minorities, you still passively supported those views? Supported his attempts to harm them?

Somewhere_ November 9th, 2016 6:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliencommander1245 (Post 9481792)
But, you supported one. That's the issue. You might not be racist yourself, but you knowingly supported a man who was not only racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynistic ect ect ect who had a political platform that included that.

"It wasn't hillary" isn't a valid excuse when you knew who he was and what his platform was and supported him anyway.

This is effectively throwing minorities under the bus. Regardless of if you think you're racist or not, you supported a man who is to try and put in policies of which more than several are racist. Does this make you worse than someone who is racist and supported him, though, is my question to you? Is it worse that despite not thinking this way about minorities, you still passively supported those views? Supported his attempts to harm them?

Trump does not have any racist platform.

I support him as the lesser of two evils. This means I recognize he is evil. That does not make me evil. This is pretty basic.

If you want further evidence I am not racist... I am friends with many minorities, my coworkers are minorities, and I have family members that are minorities. I have teachers that are minorities. I myself have been infatuated with minorities.

Stop trying to make me out to be some evil racist deplorable. I dont give a shit about what you think at this point because I have lost almost all respect I have for you. I find this very disrespectful. I consider myself a virtuous person - despite my faults.

If you would like me to apply the same logic you use to you, I will. But i am going to actually give you some decency.

How about we actually have a discussion about Trump without you spewing insults at me and questioning my character?


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