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Druddigon in OU: Why you should all try it (Check post #38)
So I guess I should go ahead and write an article as well. Also obligatory proposal post.
Druddigon is that guy who gets constantly parroted about, who everyone hates and thinks "lol it ruined the dragon-type", pointing at it when talking about Gen 5 designs. Not only that, but it also seems to be really lacking compared to most other dragon-types out there. That is until I found a certain mixed set, a set that uses all of Druddigon's qualities and turns it into a decent wallbreaker, one that I couldn't believe what it does to any defensive core. I will go over that set, one which is pretty similar to the RU LO set. Offensive Life Orb Druddigon Spoiler:
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You know, you really copied my post should just make this part of my existing article series. Seriously, if 3 or 4 more people would just use that format and title, we could do lots of mons really quickly.
Other than that, Druddy is awesome. I know I used it for a long time on various UU teams, can't quite speak to OU. |
Yeah, I feel that this could fit the "How to Battle with ___" article series ddrox started, and assuming he's fine with it (and it seems it is/idk why he wouldn't be) we can have multiple writers doing entries for those. No point having similar article series that do the same thing after all.
I'm fine with the idea for this specific run. If it's in that article series it's probably best that it follows a similar structure (see the Froslass article for said structure; so intro, term/acronym explanation, summary of the poke, the set itself, breakdown of the set, pros and cons, compare with other options, conclusion). I'll wait for comments from battling-versed Daily staff too. |
Yeah, I'd much rather see this as part of ddrox's article series than as something completely separate yet covering the same thing. Right now, the series is on a pause because ddrox is too busy to write an article. But if you join him in writing for the series, Vodka, we can get articles out more consistently.
Because yes, I would like to see more about UU/NU/RU Pokemon being used well in competitive play. |
What exactly is your set? Is it:
Druddigon @ Life Orb Ability: Sheer Force EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe Adamant Nature - Outrage - Sucker Punch - Fire Punch - Gunk Shot or something to that effect? More importantly, though, what does Druddigon offer over other Dragons in OU, such as Mega Charizard X, Latios, Garchomp, Mega Altaria, or even Haxorus? It's slower, has less bulk, has no method of reliable recovery outside of Leftovers (which you're not running on a Sheer Force set anyway), has to rely on 50/50s if it wants to hit something with Sucker Punch, and has to rely on an inaccurate move to hit Fairy-types. I doubt it's outright bad, but it just seems quite outclassed in comparison to those Pokemon. |
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Druddigon @ Life Orb Ability: Sheer Force EVs: 252 Atk / 132 SpA / 124 Spe or 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe or even your EV spread Lonely / Adamant Nature - Gunk Shot - Flamethrower / Fire Punch - Sucker Punch - Outrage / Earthquake / Hone Claws / Superpower |
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piggybacking off chase, replays should be an absolute requirement for this type of article, and that was pretty much my reaction to the froslass piece too.
any persuasive piece needs evidence. replays provide that. they also put these pokemon in a team context which is pretty important. i would propose that anything without replays on at least the mid ladder (at least 1500 elo which is a super low bar already) be needed for these things to be published. |
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In any case, presumably part of the point of these articles is to encourage at least some overlap with PvP battling using the games, rather than just on PS and such. |
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http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-297699195 And by your logic anything who needs to hit Hydro Pumps is unreliable... All of those mons who need to hit Focus Blasts and Hurricanes are also unreliable. Gunk Shot isn't that weak either when used as a psuedo-STAB. It hits harder than Jolly Toxicroak, for example. |
IMO its too slow to even hit some of the offensive pokemons in OU.. So unless it gets a buff it will stay in its tier.
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Something being persuasive doesn't equate to something being true, at all. I'd also argue that adding evidence to support anything you make is never superfluous. It might not be indispensable, but never irrelevant. These threads are here so people can get opinions, feedback and bounce ideas on what they want to write. Leaving the writing of the articles to those who write them, as you suggest, essentially nullifies the purpose of this thread. Why and if a Pokémon is good is also only subjective to a degree. Finding a Pokémon from lower tiers that generally is terrible in OU but that works when filling a certain niche doesn't make a Pokémon good. IE. Dark Azelf with Mantine and Delphox stall. While I don't think the replays should be a requirement for this to be published, I do believe the article could benefit immensely from it. As Anti said, putting things into a team perspective, showing it in action, and how other battlers respond to it. |
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All the Pokemon who need Focus Blast and Hurricane to hit are unreliable. Gunk Shot's strength is tangential. You're dancing around his and Aurora's concern. Why would I use this Pokemon over *insert Dragon-type*? |
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I'll get more replays soon. Why wouldn't you? |
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With that said, maybe tomorrow I'll start planning this out. |
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all anyone asked for was very basic "why should you use this mon" justification, not to go down "why SHOULDN'T you!" or "by that logic..." rabbit holes. not that this isn't par for the course when trying to discuss ANYTHING with you, but come on, just give us a summary without being pissy and argumentative. i've reread the thread and i still don't actually know what this mon's selling points are over other dragons, which is presumably the purpose of a proposal in the first place...? |
Some, uh, healthy debate here!
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I'm all for making articles on niche Pokemon, even in higher tiers, but one thing that ought to be done is justifying why it's used over other options (like was done in the Froslass article - which also admitted that if you didn't want something to fill all the roles Froslass could do, you could use another option). I'd rather not have articles giving sets that can be used but are ultimately ineffective for the most part or aren't justified, and can be done better by another Pokemon or few for that tier. Alternatively, you could instead write about Druddigon being used more effectively in a lower tier which may not have this issue of 'other Dragon types do what it does better' others have cited. Not every article needs to be in the OU tier after all. Quote:
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Druddigon is a great Pokemon in RU =)
If you still have your heart set on writing about Druddigon in OU, my advice is talking about a specially defensive set with Roseli Berry. It lets Druddigon set up Stealth Rock on Mega Diancie, which would otherwise flatten it, thanks to Mold Breaker, which negates Magic Bounce, and its access to Glare, which cripples Mega Diancie for the rest of the match. Something like Druddigon @ Roseli Berry Ability: Mold Breaker EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Careful Nature - Stealth Rock - Glare - Taunt - Gunk Shot / Dragon Tail That being said, this is still EXTREMELY niche. I'm not sold on whether or not this is even worth a teamslot considering it is so matchup reliant. |
Fine let's be more clear:
Druddigon is a powerful wallbreaker which finds its niche in OU by being able to smash through Clefable and Tangrowth effortlessly, something very few dragon-types are able to do. It also beats up Ferrothorn and Skarmory in 2 hits, and depending on its coverage, it can get past stuff such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Chansey, Quagsire and Mega Sableye. Druddigon is no slouch against offensive teams, either, as it has access to Sucker Punch to revenge kill Latios and Mega Alakazam and deal great damage to Hoopa Unbound. Perhaps the most scary thing is how surprisingly hard is Druddigon to switch into. Its bulk isn't that bad, as at full health it can survive 2 HP Ices from electric-types such as Raikou and Manectric. |
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Oh yeah, found one more replay with Druddigon in action, this time against Dark Azelf: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokecommunity-ou-200219 Speaking of which, I should probably add Rocky Helmet Druddigon to the analysis too. inb4butit'soutclassedbychomplol |
That replay is basically DA stall losing to LO Hoopa lol.
Druddigon is basically useless in OU. It IS, however, usable in Ubers (arguably much better than Garchomp)! |
That battle doesn't prove anything. Druddigon did literally zero that battle besides get Toxic stalled by Zapdos and Defogged on every time it attempted to lay Stealth Rock. While that phazing set is great for bulky teams in RU, it looks like it is a huge momentum sucker on your offensive team. Also, Dark Azelf got cheesed by your Hoopa-U crit and burn on Dugtrio, which would have put in loads of work. Finally, the team you faced was full of things that you would not normally find in OU. Dugtrio is unconventional at best while Shedinja is a stupid gimmick. You didn't even use the set you said you were going to talk about in the article!
You have still not provided any reasoning as to why Druddigon is better than any other specific Dragon-type in OU. By the looks of it, unless it is exploiting its niche as a Dragon-type SR setter that beats Mega Diancie (which is INCREDIBLY match-up reliant anyway and leaves Druddigon useless 80% of the time), Druddigon is just not worth using over Garchomp, Latias, Latios, Mega Charizard X, or Mega Altaria. I am really not sold on this. |
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