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-   -   How Will These Games Celebrate the 20th Anniversary of Pokemon? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=364148)

Lunar February 29th, 2016 8:43 AM

How Will These Games Celebrate the 20th Anniversary of Pokemon?
 
Obviously Sun and Moon are being released this year (2016) which marks the 20th anniversary of the original Pokemon games being released on Japan. What features or Easter eggs do you guys want or expect to see to celebrate this milestone in the Pokemon franchise?

pkmin3033 February 29th, 2016 9:03 AM

I have a sneaking suspicion that, if character customisation doesn't make a reappearance, we may get to choose which protagonist we play as from across the years. The speculation of Red appearing in the screenshots, combined with what looks like another different trainer, makes me wonder. It'd be pretty cool if we could pick our favourite from across the franchise's history if we're not getting specific customisation!

I would expect a lot of subtle references and hints to various moments in the franchise's history through NPC conversations, background scenery, and the like. The sort of thing people take to be hints for remakes, only for every generation. Remixes of battle themes is something that'll probably crop up as well; that's been a staple for major themes in past titles (Champion and Gym leader themes in the PWT being the most prominent example) but I'd expect it to be a little more varied than that...maybe, for example, playing the battle music of a specific generation for a Pokemon; like if you encountered a wild Taillow Hoenn's default battle theme played, and if you encountered a Pidove then Unova's battle theme would play. Cool little things like that.

Cameos will probably abound, as well - depending upon internet connectivity features, maybe different trainers from across the ages would appear in the games at different times; like weekly events. One week you could battle Cynthia, and the next you could battle Lance. There was something like this with the PWT, and it'd be pretty cool if it appeared again for the 20th Anniversary.

But as for something specific, something very 20th Anniversary? I'm not entirely sure...

MarioManH February 29th, 2016 10:12 AM

Intro To Moon/Sun
Oak begins with the intro. He introduces you to the world of Pokemon. He then proceeds to ask you about you and your rival. You have no idea what's going on! Then you wake up... you walk downstairs to see your mother telling you to hurry up, and that you will be late. You don't know what's really going on until you reach your destination. A few buildings away from you is the revered Pokemon Lab of --- Region. You suddenly see what's happening. The famous Pokemon Professor from Kanto, Oak, is throwing a 20th Anniversary Party for when Professor --- started his/her profession of being a Pokemon Professor.

I would kill for something like this.

Harmonie February 29th, 2016 10:40 AM

People already complained at too much pandering to G1 in X/Y, but you know, it's going to have to happen again here. Perhaps it would be more balanced and show the other generations... But wouldn't it be kind of cool to see a Kanto that takes place 20 years after the events of R/B/Y and FR/LG? Personally I think so (Although seeing Red/Leaf at approx. 30 years old... I don't know about that one. Lol). I'd really like to see a new region, and then an old one afterwards like in G/S/C and HG/SS, no matter which one it is, anyway.

blue February 29th, 2016 10:49 AM

It is the 20th anniversary, so I'm sure there will be some connection with past games. In the direct it was said that it all comes together, whether that actually meant anything or not remains unknown. I'd like to go as far as to say we get to visit a Region from the past, but I just can't see how they could work it into the games unless they use a location that borders onto an existing Region?

EC February 29th, 2016 10:52 AM

At the very least, Oak will make an appearance. If this region is based on Hawaii, perhaps he is on vacation. Maybe we'll even see him in one of those Hawaiian shirts he seems to wear all the time in the anime.

BettyNewbie February 29th, 2016 12:47 PM

If the concept art showing the Red-like trainer is any indication, we might be able to customize our PC to look like any of the past trainers. Hopefully, this includes Gold, Kris, and Green (both beta and FRLG), as well as the earlier designs of Red, May, and Brendan.

Another PWT-like thing would be nice, too, although it NEEDS to include E4 members this time around. They're just as important as Gym Leaders and Champions, and GF needs to start respecting them as the powerful, high-ranking trainers they're supposed to be.

I also wouldn't mind returning to some of the story/lore conventions of RBY/GSC. Like, why can't the mascots be starters instead of legendaries? And, do we really need to have a big "save the world" plot in every game?

I'd also like to see a surprise Champion similar to Blue instead of recycling the "older mentor figure who helps you against Evil Team" formula they've been doing since GSC, as well as a rival who's mean/competitive like Blue and Silver instead of friendly like all the ones we've had since RSE.

And, even though it probably doesn't have a chance in hell of happening, returning to Kalos as the postgame would not only be the ultimate nod to GSC's postgame, but it would also give much-needed closure to XY.

While the games should still be more fleshed-out than RBY/GSC were, they should also try to break from the same basic plot structure and conventions the games have been using since RSE. That way, they could give a nod to the earlier gens while still keeping things fresh and carving out a unique identity for the new region.

AliceBlaze February 29th, 2016 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmonie (Post 9141033)
People already complained at too much pandering to G1 in X/Y, but you know, it's going to have to happen again here. Perhaps it would be more balanced and show the other generations... But wouldn't it be kind of cool to see a Kanto that takes place 20 years after the events of R/B/Y and FR/LG? Personally I think so (Although seeing Red/Leaf at approx. 30 years old... I don't know about that one. Lol). I'd really like to see a new region, and then an old one afterwards like in G/S/C and HG/SS, no matter which one it is, anyway.

I once played a ROM hack where the protagonist is Red's child while the rival is Blue/Green's son. I can imagine something like that in Sun/Moon and it would be a good way to connect the original gen to the current one.

Z25 February 29th, 2016 3:55 PM

My bet is it will combine things that made each game liked throughout the years.

two regions in one game

Battle frontier

tougher difficulty for those who want it

Solve any open plot lines

Lots of references to other parts of the franchise

Expanded pokedex.

and much more.

They will probably do quite a lot.

Rivvon February 29th, 2016 4:25 PM

They'll include long-lost features from older games that we've wanted back for years. At least, that's how I hope they'll show appreciation towards all 20 years of the franchise (and not just gen 1, which was already overly-referenced in X & Y).

Gen 1 - Ummm the Special Stat (lol jk)
Gen 2 - Access to two regions / Pokémon following you, PokéaAthlon
Gen 3 - Some sort of Battle Frontier
Gen 4 - [region] Underground + Bases, some sort of Battle Frontier (oops it seems I repeated myself), Contests (I like gen 4's Contest system better, sorry!)
Gen 5 - Seasons, PokéStar Studios, difficulty selection, an actual story with actual characters, PWT, lots of meaningful version differences
Gen 6 - Character customization, DexNav

In addition to these features, some cute little extra details could go a long way, too (gen 2's non-mascot legendary taking importance in the plot; gen 4's Day/Night music differences; gen 5's Gym music differences).

Ho-Oh March 1st, 2016 4:17 AM

I think everyone's points are interesting, but some miight be too wishful on our behalf. I know the creators are awesome but I mean the majority of the fanbase was expecting Z and boom. SM.

@Meloetta That's actually an incredibly awesome idea. Playing as an older character would be super cool however I think they'd rather go with set-in-stone customisation. Roughly there's... if we go with two a generation that's at least 12 characters, add on two different ones for Unova, and one in Crystal that brings us to 15 different characters to choose from. So from the first screen we'd have to choose from 15 characters. I think that might be a little too much compared to being able to freely choose/alter stuff in-game.

@MarioManH That'd be awesome. :)

@BettyNewbie What's Pokemon without saving the world????

@Rivvon Pokemon following you will most likely make an appearance I think. People loved it, it was used in one of the most known games ever, and it's 20 years. Why not? As for everything else I don't really have that many opinions on the rest of those, except characters and story. Yes.

pkmin3033 March 1st, 2016 6:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever (Post 9142249)
@Meloetta That's actually an incredibly awesome idea. Playing as an older character would be super cool however I think they'd rather go with set-in-stone customisation. Roughly there's... if we go with two a generation that's at least 12 characters, add on two different ones for Unova, and one in Crystal that brings us to 15 different characters to choose from. So from the first screen we'd have to choose from 15 characters. I think that might be a little too much compared to being able to freely choose/alter stuff in-game.

True, although all things considered I don't think that's a huge thing to ask for; lots of games have character customisation far more complex and detailed than picking between two or three models that are practically identical save for a couple of very small aesthetic differences. Even if they DID include every character from past games as a playable avatar, it wouldn't be particularly standout in the grand scheme of things...if anything it'd still be restrictive, since you wouldn't be able to change height, skin tone, hair style and colour, etc etc. These are all standard features for games that give you a self-insert protagonist...except for Pokemon, anyway.

I think they're far more likely to opt for the clothing customisation route as well if they're going to do anything with it though, as it was a pretty popular feature in the Kalos games and it's a much easier way to give players freedom of choice...and it allows for greater flexibility too, as you'd be able to change costumes at will, plus there are all the other potential costumes they could stack on top of that...dressing up as an Elite Four/Champion character, for example, or even characters from other franchise...you just KNOW they'd have Link and Zelda, Mario and Zelda, Splatoon, Fire Emblem and Metroid costumes. Maybe it's not as much of an homage to earlier titles, but it IS a nice little nod and a cool feature nonetheless. We can dream, I suppose. xD

...just as long as we don't have to play the games using Miis. If that ever happens I'm swearing off the franchise.

Jessie March 1st, 2016 8:55 AM

I think it'd just be cool to have past protagonists as NPC's scattered throughout the game.

It's hard to say, though I'm sure they will do something awesome!

Hikamaru March 1st, 2016 9:05 AM

Like Jessie, I'm not sure what they'll do but I hope they'll acknowledge the 20th anniversary in some way.

Lunar March 2nd, 2016 9:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivvon (Post 9141542)
T
Gen 2 - Access to two regions / Pokémon following you, PokéaAthlon

I think that with (hopefully) a brand new engine for these games the ability for Pokemon to follow you again could be a reality, it seems like they've been trying to bring it back for a while (in Gen 5 to be precise) but it's never happened. And EVERYONE would love the ability to access another region, preferably an older one :3

Ho-Oh March 3rd, 2016 3:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meloetta (Post 9142380)
True, although all things considered I don't think that's a huge thing to ask for; lots of games have character customisation far more complex and detailed than picking between two or three models that are practically identical save for a couple of very small aesthetic differences. Even if they DID include every character from past games as a playable avatar, it wouldn't be particularly standout in the grand scheme of things...if anything it'd still be restrictive, since you wouldn't be able to change height, skin tone, hair style and colour, etc etc. These are all standard features for games that give you a self-insert protagonist...except for Pokemon, anyway.

I think they're far more likely to opt for the clothing customisation route as well if they're going to do anything with it though, as it was a pretty popular feature in the Kalos games and it's a much easier way to give players freedom of choice...and it allows for greater flexibility too, as you'd be able to change costumes at will, plus there are all the other potential costumes they could stack on top of that...dressing up as an Elite Four/Champion character, for example, or even characters from other franchise...you just KNOW they'd have Link and Zelda, Mario and Zelda, Splatoon, Fire Emblem and Metroid costumes. Maybe it's not as much of an homage to earlier titles, but it IS a nice little nod and a cool feature nonetheless. We can dream, I suppose. xD

...just as long as we don't have to play the games using Miis. If that ever happens I'm swearing off the franchise.

I suppose, I just know a lot of people are going to have difficulty deciding initially if that's the case and I have a feeling GF will want them to get riiiiight into the games lol. I actually like what a user suggested a few posts after yours, of previous protagonists as NPCs, scattered all over the region. I think that would be awesome, and a lot more likely. I mean, I think Red and Blue will probably be involved somehow. That might be all though, as a lot of our other protagonists weren't that... memorable to most people.

Although in regards to the 20th anniversary... nothing really special happened for the 10th anniversary if I recall correctly, so I don't know how much they're willing to acknowledge it in the games. Somehow thinking about it more I have a feeling that it'll be something small and sweet.

I actually think they'll head that way one day, and that's pretty unfortunate. I never liked Mii's, but I do fear that it will be happening sometime in the future. Funny thing is people will still play, Pokemon has the perfect formula. You could be a headless dog as the main character and as long as everything else stays the same people will probably play as normal, as long as they get to return to a previous region or discover a new one.

Thunderflare March 3rd, 2016 4:19 AM

They can have some of our favorite characters come back for sidequests. Have Blain show up and ask the player to help get Mewtwo back under control, N running a Pokemon shelter, and/or a champions castle where you can battle the best of the best from around the world.

Sabrewulf238 March 3rd, 2016 4:34 AM

One possibility is that instead of being able to revisit old regions, they'll bring back features that are iconic of the previous six generations.

As an example they might bring back the Bug Catching Contest and Apricorns from the second generation. Something like that.

My only fear in that case would be that the 7th generation would become some kind of "Greatest Hits" generation instead of having a strong identity of it's own.

pkmin3033 March 3rd, 2016 6:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabrewulf238 (Post 9145121)
My only fear in that case would be that the 7th generation would become some kind of "Greatest Hits" generation instead of having a strong identity of it's own.

I'd be inclined to agree with this; I think there is an inherent danger in that if they go overboard with the homages to each generation prior...after all, there is a LOT of content. That said, this is what third titles and sequels are for. If Sun and Moon are seventh generation titles, I'd expect them to be pioneers, and not representative of the generation as a whole, so if they were more 20th Anniversary titles rather than fresh, wholly original instalments in a brand new gen, I don't think it'd be cause for alarm...unless we didn't get any follow-up again, as would be the case with XY if Sun and Moon weren't connected to them in some way.

WingsofBliss March 3rd, 2016 7:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivvon (Post 9141542)
They'll include long-lost features from older games that we've wanted back for years. At least, that's how I hope they'll show appreciation towards all 20 years of the franchise (and not just gen 1, which was already overly-referenced in X & Y).

Gen 1 - Ummm the Special Stat (lol jk)
Gen 2 - Access to two regions / Pokémon following you, PokéaAthlon
Gen 3 - Some sort of Battle Frontier
Gen 4 - [region] Underground + Bases, some sort of Battle Frontier (oops it seems I repeated myself), Contests (I like gen 4's Contest system better, sorry!)
Gen 5 - Seasons, PokéStar Studios, difficulty selection, an actual story with actual characters, PWT, lots of meaningful version differences
Gen 6 - Character customization, DexNav

In addition to these features, some cute little extra details could go a long way, too (gen 2's non-mascot legendary taking importance in the plot; gen 4's Day/Night music differences; gen 5's Gym music differences).

That's an awesome idea, I'd really like to see the best/well-received feature of each region being implemented into S/M. To add on to Gen 4, how about a revisit to the Distortion World? Maybe even Cyrus has captured Giratina and you get to battle him for the lulz?

I think that the new region will have some sort of connection to all past regions, like a melting pot of sorts. I'm not just talking about little NPC references like "hey I came from *blank* Town from the *blank* Region!". I talking about cultural and plot elements from past games

Rivvon March 3rd, 2016 8:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScoSap (Post 9143933)
I think that with (hopefully) a brand new engine for these games the ability for Pokemon to follow you again could be a reality, it seems like they've been trying to bring it back for a while (in Gen 5 to be precise) but it's never happened. And EVERYONE would love the ability to access another region, preferably an older one :3

It would be fairly easy to implement Pokémon following you at this point. In gen 4, they had to draw new overworld sprites for each and every Pokémon by hand and animate their "walk" cycles by hand, too. Now, all they need to do is take the already-sculpted, already-rigged 3D models and give them a "walk" cycle and lo and behold, the Pokémon is now following you around on the overworld! Just make it optional for the people who aren't too fond of it and you've got yourself the return of a beloved feature! I'd imagine there could be a little miniature Poké Ball or "walking" icon on the bottom right of each party Pokémon's "box" in the party menu, and if you tap it it would light up and the Pokémon would come out of its Poké Ball to follow you.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabrewulf238 (Post 9145121)
One possibility is that instead of being able to revisit old regions, they'll bring back features that are iconic of the previous six generations.

As an example they might bring back the Bug Catching Contest and Apricorns from the second generation. Something like that.

My only fear in that case would be that the 7th generation would become some kind of "Greatest Hits" generation instead of having a strong identity of it's own.

The thing is, something like Apricorns would be okay because they existed to give you access to new Poké Balls (ones that I'd love to have back, by the way)--and the juice blends for the PokéAthlon but that's a different topic. Johto had a lot of identity on its own that if Sun & Moon incorporated Pokémon following you and Apricorns I wouldn't think that's taking away from the identity of Sun & Moon's region. I can imagine more than one region has Apricorns, as in real-life, corn grows in more than one continent. Same thing with character customization; if I leave my home country to visit another, I'm not gonna stop styling my hair and changing my clothes.

I considered putting the Bug-Catching Contest in my list some posts above, but I thought against it because I realized--as fun as that was, what does it bring to the table? It was a fun activity to help you get some of the rarer Bug-Types. You can incorporate that any other way and still have it be successful. So that's an example of something that can remain Johto-exclusive. Other things, though, such as Contests, can be shared across generations without feeling like they're ripping off another game (it's already been done since Contests are both in Hoenn and Sinnoh).
Quote:

Originally Posted by Meloetta (Post 9145190)
I'd be inclined to agree with this; I think there is an inherent danger in that if they go overboard with the homages to each generation prior...after all, there is a LOT of content. That said, this is what third titles and sequels are for. If Sun and Moon are seventh generation titles, I'd expect them to be pioneers, and not representative of the generation as a whole, so if they were more 20th Anniversary titles rather than fresh, wholly original instalments in a brand new gen, I don't think it'd be cause for alarm...unless we didn't get any follow-up again, as would be the case with XY if Sun and Moon weren't connected to them in some way.

I'm not targeting this towards you specifically but just in general: I really don't get this mindset. I'm sure I'm in the minority, being someone who actually wanted "Pokémon Z." But how can people be so eager to leave gen 6 behind--and for some, leaving behind the concept of "third versions" behind entirely--if they're so certain Sun & Moon will be just as content-deprived as X & Y? Why would you want that? If the days of third versions are over, that means Sun & Moon have to step up their game, and not be the typical, lackluster (content-wise) "first games" of the generation. Otherwise, we're gonna need a third version again and we'll just be back at square one. I really don't think there would be much issue if Sun & Moon literally "brought it all together" and incorporated lots of features from previous games. Some people felt that Kalos didn't have much of its own "identity" because all it did was pay homage to gen 1, which made it feel like it was trying to be gen 1. But if Sun & Moon brought together features from all previous gens, it would feel more like a culmination of what made the previous games so great, rather than it trying to be something that it's not.
Quote:

Originally Posted by WingsofBliss (Post 9145307)
That's an awesome idea, I'd really like to see the best/well-received feature of each region being implemented into S/M. To add on to Gen 4, how about a revisit to the Distortion World? Maybe even Cyrus has captured Giratina and you get to battle him for the lulz?

I think that the new region will have some sort of connection to all past regions, like a melting pot of sorts. I'm not just talking about little NPC references like "hey I came from *blank* Town from the *blank* Region!". I talking about cultural and plot elements from past games

Aaah I'd love to visit the Distortion World again! But I feel as though there'd have to be some like plot reason to be able to do that... I was trying to think of other things like "Unova's" Nature Preserve and the Sinjoh Ruins, places which are related but not really to other regions that could be visited. But it's hard to think of what they could do without going out of their way, story-wise.

I like where you're going with the "cultural and plot elements from past games," but could you maybe give an example? I keep thinking about stuff like how in Crystal Version, the main legendary of focus was part of the minor trio rather than the major two/three mascots.

pkmin3033 March 3rd, 2016 9:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivvon (Post 9145338)
I'm not targeting this towards you specifically but just in general: I really don't get this mindset. I'm sure I'm in the minority, being someone who actually wanted "Pokémon Z." But how can people be so eager to leave gen 6 behind--and for some, leaving behind the concept of "third versions" behind entirely--if they're so certain Sun & Moon will be just as content-deprived as X & Y? Why would you want that? If the days of third versions are over, that means Sun & Moon have to step up their game, and not be the typical, lackluster (content-wise) "first games" of the generation. Otherwise, we're gonna need a third version again and we'll just be back at square one. I really don't think there would be much issue if Sun & Moon literally "brought it all together" and incorporated lots of features from previous games. Some people felt that Kalos didn't have much of its own "identity" because all it did was pay homage to gen 1, which made it feel like it was trying to be gen 1. But if Sun & Moon brought together features from all previous gens, it would feel more like a culmination of what made the previous games so great, rather than it trying to be something that it's not.

Well, I'll try and respond to the point anyway, whether aimed at me or not.

I think one of the reasons people are so keen to move on is because these third versions never change things sufficiently enough that it feels like a whole new experience or even a worthwhile one, at least for the majority of the game. You're running through the exact same sequence of events that you did previously, only you've changed your Legendary of choice, maybe added a couple of side characters who pop up maybe once or twice, and your reward for persevering through this a second time is postgame content that quickly loses its appeal, if it ever had any at all. It's the version that we SHOULD have gotten the first time around, though. It's irritating to buy the game again when the changes are so superficial it feels on some levels like we wasted our money on the first versions; at least, I think that's a part of it.

Personally, I'd be all for not needing third versions anymore if it meant that the first games included all those features; if Game Freak actually stepped up their game and delivered that complete experience the first time around like they ought to. Not many other titles out there will re-release themselves a year or two after their release with such minimalistic changes. Because, let's face it, the changes made in third versions would be in-game patches (or paid DLC, which is still preferable to paying full RRP) on other consoles. Do I think we need third versions or sequels now, as things stand, to get the full vision of what the developers had in mind? Yes. Do I like that? No. In fact, if it were any other developer, any other franchise, I wouldn't stand for it.

I'm not sure how content-deprived Sun and Moon will be if they're seventh gen titles, but if history is anything to go by, they'll be standard-issue first entry titles, 20th Anniversary homages or not. Because it's just the way Game Freak work. It's the way they've always worked.

It would depend entirely on how it is presented - and, I suppose, how familiar with the titles and how forgiving you were - whether or not Sun and Moon would feel like collaboration titles rather than original titles if they blatantly pulled together things from previous generations. It's very difficult to say how successful that kind of thing is without first playing the titles, because it can go either way. It would depend on what new content was there, amongst other things. Personally, I'd prefer to see it as drawing it all together, rather than subsidising because they ran out of new ideas or whatever, but...well, that's just me. You can bet other people will take the opposite viewpoint, because that's how the game industry as a whole works - one game owns one idea, and if another game uses it, that's stealing. If, say, Pokemon followed you in Sun and Moon, they'd be HGSS ripoffs. If they had a Battle Frontier they'd be Emerald ripoffs. If they had cameos it'd be because they're trying to be like a previous gen. People just love complaining about these things even if they wanted them.

Hikamaru March 3rd, 2016 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meloetta (Post 9145402)
I'm not sure how content-deprived Sun and Moon will be if they're seventh gen titles, but if history is anything to go by, they'll be standard-issue first entry titles, 20th Anniversary homages or not. Because it's just the way Game Freak work. It's the way they've always worked.

It's been the formula of Pokemon for a while, in that the first games have notably less content. However, there's always the chance Game Freak will give us more content than we'd usually expect.

Rivvon March 3rd, 2016 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meloetta (Post 9145402)
Well, I'll try and respond to the point anyway, whether aimed at me or not.

I think one of the reasons people are so keen to move on is because these third versions never change things sufficiently enough that it feels like a whole new experience or even a worthwhile one, at least for the majority of the game. You're running through the exact same sequence of events that you did previously, only you've changed your Legendary of choice, maybe added a couple of side characters who pop up maybe once or twice, and your reward for persevering through this a second time is postgame content that quickly loses its appeal, if it ever had any at all. It's the version that we SHOULD have gotten the first time around, though. It's irritating to buy the game again when the changes are so superficial it feels on some levels like we wasted our money on the first versions; at least, I think that's a part of it.

I get that. I get why people want to move away from third versions. But what I don't get is, if they want to move away from third versions, why do they want, or rather, think that Sun & Moon will be the typical "first games" of a generation? Because if they keep that "tradition" up, while neglecting to make a third version, then what, none of the games will be substantial?

Quote:

It would depend entirely on how it is presented - and, I suppose, how familiar with the titles and how forgiving you were - whether or not Sun and Moon would feel like collaboration titles rather than original titles if they blatantly pulled together things from previous generations. It's very difficult to say how successful that kind of thing is without first playing the titles, because it can go either way. It would depend on what new content was there, amongst other things. Personally, I'd prefer to see it as drawing it all together, rather than subsidising because they ran out of new ideas or whatever, but...well, that's just me. You can bet other people will take the opposite viewpoint, because that's how the game industry as a whole works - one game owns one idea, and if another game uses it, that's stealing. If, say, Pokemon followed you in Sun and Moon, they'd be HGSS ripoffs. If they had a Battle Frontier they'd be Emerald ripoffs. If they had cameos it'd be because they're trying to be like a previous gen. People just love complaining about these things even if they wanted them.
Well I can tell you right now that I've never met anyone who thought of HGSS as a "Yellow Version rip-off" since it had Pokémon following you, which was technically done by Yellow Version first, albeit to a much smaller scale. Of course, there will be complainers no matter what, but I highly doubt people will claim that Sun & Moon ripped off older Pokémon games if it contained previously-demanded features. Because it's Pokémon, it's the same series. A series can borrow from and improve upon itself. Nobody thought Sinnoh's Battle Frontier was a rip-off from Emerald because they had all-new facilities with all-new NPCs--excepting the Battle Factory, but even then the NPC was new.

Pokémon following you might not have a lot of room for change, but Contests have some wiggle-room for new aspects (Hoenn & Sinnoh prove that); the Battle Frontier proves that (Hoenn & Sinnoh again); if they add depth to what can be done with your outfits and hair (layering clothes, different clothing types, a multitude of hairstyles and colors, etc.) it would be different enough from Kalos to be fresh. And that's what I don't really get about thinking they can't or shouldn't be included. These features, once improved upon from their initial appearances, can feel almost brand-new. So it wouldn't take away from the "identity" of Sun & Moon, but rather add to it, making it a game that feels like there was a lot of time and care put into making all these features come together in a way that fans have wanted for some time.

pkmin3033 March 3rd, 2016 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivvon (Post 9145433)
I get that. I get why people want to move away from third versions. But what I don't get is, if they want to move away from third versions, why do they want, or rather, think that Sun & Moon will be the typical "first games" of a generation? Because if they keep that "tradition" up, while neglecting to make a third version, then what, none of the games will be substantial?

Because that's what they've come to expect from the games - why would Sun and Moon be any different? I can certainly see the point: Game Freak don't NEED to make an effort to make the first version of Pokemon more substantial any more than Square Enix need to put effort into Final Fantasy, or AAA developers like EA need to put an effort into their annually released titles. No matter what they do, these things are going to sell hundreds of thousands. Cutting content also allows them to repackage it later and sell it again a year or so later and sell even more. Will that change if they do away with third versions? I have absolutely no idea. I would certainly hope so. But even if it didn't...well, can you see it spelling the end of Pokemon? Because I certainly can't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivvon (Post 9145433)
Well I can tell you right now that I've never met anyone who thought of HGSS as a "Yellow Version rip-off" since it had Pokémon following you, which was technically done by Yellow Version first, albeit to a much smaller scale. Of course, there will be complainers no matter what, but I highly doubt people will claim that Sun & Moon ripped off older Pokémon games if it contained previously-demanded features. Because it's Pokémon, it's the same series. A series can borrow from and improve upon itself. Nobody thought Sinnoh's Battle Frontier was a rip-off from Emerald because they had all-new facilities with all-new NPCs--excepting the Battle Factory, but even then the NPC was new.

You have a lot more faith in the fandom than I do, then. Maybe you won't find that sort of complaint here, but elsewhere, on boards a little less civilised, you can bet the claws will come out and people will complain. I suppose it doesn't really matter, because they'll be in a very small minority with complaints that extreme, but...well, people are never satisfied. As many people who want something, an equal number don't. Just look at the threads in this section for an illustration: people are speculating left and right, asking for specific features to be added or removed; no matter what happens, someone is going to be upset. People want things to remain the same, but they want a completely new experience. They're never satisfied.

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Originally Posted by Rivvon (Post 9145433)
Pokémon following you might not have a lot of room for change, but Contests have some wiggle-room for new aspects (Hoenn & Sinnoh prove that); the Battle Frontier proves that (Hoenn & Sinnoh again); if they add depth to what can be done with your outfits and hair (layering clothes, different clothing types, a multitude of hairstyles and colors, etc.) it would be different enough from Kalos to be fresh. And that's what I don't really get about thinking they can't or shouldn't be included. These features, once improved upon from their initial appearances, can feel almost brand-new. So it wouldn't take away from the "identity" of Sun & Moon, but rather add to it, making it a game that feels like there was a lot of time and care put into making all these features come together in a way that fans have wanted for some time.

Again, that'd depend on your perspective - some people would see that as a cop-out and, if Sun and Moon don't have enough of an identity without these features, they will be what people home in on, and they'll be points of criticism rather than points in its favour. If all they see and like of Sun and Moon is things from previous titles, that makes them bad games. That's how the logic goes...if one can call that logic.

It's very difficult for me to argue a point I don't particularly agree with, haha. Having been sick of the franchise myself twice in the past - once with Hoenn, and once with Unova - I can see the arguments though, and I can relate to a degree with people who have these mindsets, as I used to share it. Personally, I'd prefer to give Sun and Moon a chance to impress me, and to judge it as a separate entity, and not by the standards of the previous titles. But...well, it's Pokemon. You can expect certain things. Expectations breed excitement or cynicism, and with so little information it's difficult to go either way.


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