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-   -   Mandatory military service in the US (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=365493)

Neil Peart March 19th, 2016 3:10 AM

Mandatory military service in the US
 
Should the US make it mandatory for all males at least 18 years of age serve at least two years in the military?

Personally, I don't think anyone should be forced to put their life at risk for a cause they may not believe in. If it's a time of war, no one should have to be told they're going over to this foreign land to kill people at the behest of their leader. Also, this is an issue for people who are at their learning peak being told to hold off on college for at least two years.

Thoughts?

gimmepie March 19th, 2016 6:56 AM

Firstly, it bothers me that you say "all males" like women can't serve.

Secondly, I don't believe anyone anywhere should be forced into the military against their will. That's tyrannical and ridiculous and I doubt people who don't want to be there will make particularly good soldiers anyway.

Neil Peart March 19th, 2016 7:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimmepie (Post 9170407)
Firstly, it bothers me that you say "all males" like women can't serve.

Women here aren't conscripted.

gimmepie March 19th, 2016 7:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndertakerFreak1127 (Post 9170421)
Women here aren't conscripted.

As far as I was aware nobody in the US was conscripted these days. If for some reason conscription makes a return though, women should not be exempt.

Neil Peart March 19th, 2016 7:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimmepie (Post 9170430)
As far as I was aware nobody in the US was conscripted these days. If for some reason conscription makes a return though, women should not be exempt.

My scenario would be conscripted. Allowing women to be conscripted is grounds for a totally different debate. My scenario only includes males, because that's the status quo in the States - only males are required to sign up for Selective Service.

EC March 19th, 2016 7:51 AM

There's a difference between a draft and mandatory military service.

Neil Peart March 19th, 2016 8:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilChameleon (Post 9170457)
There's a difference between a draft and mandatory military service.

I'm aware.

Kanzler March 19th, 2016 8:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilChameleon (Post 9170457)
There's a difference between a draft and mandatory military service.

What's the difference?

Neil Peart March 19th, 2016 8:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanzler (Post 9170471)
What's the difference?

If I'm not mistaken, conscription is where you're required to serve for a certain amount of time, while a draft is solely for wartime. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

gimmepie March 19th, 2016 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndertakerFreak1127 (Post 9170486)
If I'm not mistaken, conscription is where you're required to serve for a certain amount of time, while a draft is solely for wartime. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

You're getting yourself confused. A draft and conscription are the same thing, but mandatory service is something else. A draft/conscription is something that occurs during wartime (and shouldn't imo) and mandatory service is when at a certain age you're required to undergo military training/work with the military for a certain period of time.

The "lottery" to see who went to Vietnam was conscription.
Singapore has mandatory service.

Personally I think both are unethical.

Tsutarja March 19th, 2016 11:02 AM

If I had an honest opinion, I'd believe that the Selective Service System is an outdated organization within the government and needs to have its purpose amended. Not that I'm not supportive of our troops currently serving both domestically and abroad, but it seems to me that the SSS came about during a time when either nobody wanted to serve, or when the United States needed the man power.

It's also outdated in that woman do not have to enroll in the Selective Service System, and the service was also established back before woman could even legally join the military. Citizens with certain disabilities are also able to not be enrolled, but that's understandable.

Overall, I believe that mandatory service and the Selective Service System just need to go. I can understand if they need to establish it again in the distant future if times like Vietnam ever come up again, but they should at least amend how the service works to make it more fair, in my opinion.

Nah March 19th, 2016 12:08 PM

I'd rather that mandatory military service never becomes a thing in the US. Not everyone is suited for the military, and willing soldiers are better than ones that didn't want to be there in the first place. You shouldn't be forced to potentially die for your country. It seems unnecessary anyway since war is slowly becoming more and more waged through ICBMs and drones and special ops surgical strikes and not massive ground or air battles a la WWII.

Somewhere_ March 19th, 2016 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimmepie (Post 9170430)
As far as I was aware nobody in the US was conscripted these days. If for some reason conscription makes a return though, women should not be exempt.

Conscription is not active, but it can be implemented in times of need if Im not mistaken.

Conscription is one of the biggest violators of human rights. Conscription is slavery. Conscription mass murders. I dont care the reason- conscription should never be required. Ever. If I am ever drafted, Im ditching.

Klippy March 19th, 2016 1:08 PM

Mandatory service, not necessarily in wartime, wouldn't be a terrible thing for a lot of young people who are lost in life or need some direction and discipline. The military can offer many career paths and the discipline of service could help shape people into productive adults, but I'd only say that would be valuable if, while enlisted, you were able to take college classes or prepare for a field outside of the military. There are many fields of work in the military outside of active duty or ground deployment. I've considered joining the Air Force as an officer with my degree and try to pursue JAG or piloting. Tough fields, but rewarding.

Drafting citizens should only be a last resort in dire wartime. WWII was dire, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are not. I'd definitely only support it if there was absolutely no choice but to and even then, I'd not be happy being drafted or forced into anything.

crimsoncero March 19th, 2016 1:21 PM

It really depends on the country, Israel for example has mandatory service, 3 years for males 2 for females. Personally, I believe this is really crucial for the country because we are surrounded by hostile countries and terror organizations, who are not really fond of us.

Seeing as I'll be recruited next year, and so will most of my friends, I had a lot of time thinking about it. I see it as wasting my time while I could do other stuff like start learning for university or maybe travel. But, and it's a big but, I do think it's important for me to enlist, because of the reasons I gave above; So I'm trying to get into a unit that I can benefit from ( although it doesn't work for me so far) so I could do my best and gain the most.

Mandatory military is really a case by case situation, I don't think the US should have it, seeing as they are quite in a state of power (carriers, carriers, carriers), but for countries like Israel it is probably the right idea; on another note, if there is mandatory enlistment, there should not be discrimination by race,sex, etc.

Sir Codin March 19th, 2016 5:38 PM

Milton Freeman worked hard to make sure the archaic art of rounding up young men and forcing them into the military against their will was a product of a bygone age of human barbarism that was no longer necessary in the modern world.

Please don't fuck it up.

Neil Peart March 19th, 2016 10:13 PM

Just for the record, if I were to be drafted, I'd take the potential jail time over fighting for the country.

ShinyUmbreon189 March 19th, 2016 11:42 PM

As much as I respect the US soldiers I don't believe in mandatory military service. I refuse to fight for a bloodthirsty country. I'd gladly go behind bars instead or move to a different country.

Her March 20th, 2016 1:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsutarja (Post 9170596)
Overall, I believe that mandatory service and the Selective Service System just need to go. I can understand if they need to establish it again in the distant future if times like Vietnam ever come up again, but they should at least amend how the service works to make it more fair, in my opinion.

It's interesting that you bring up Vietnam as an option when mandatory service during the Vietnam War is what makes it such an unpopular issue across America today, even when the obvious loathing most people have towards the 'option' is put aside. It seems as if 'times like Vietnam' would make mandatory service even more volatile an option to choose.

gimmepie March 21st, 2016 2:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley Quinn (Post 9172214)
It's interesting that you bring up Vietnam as an option when mandatory service during the Vietnam War is what makes it such an unpopular issue across America today, even when the obvious loathing most people have towards the 'option' is put aside. It seems as if 'times like Vietnam' would make mandatory service even more volatile an option to choose.

I think this is probably largely because other countries had no place butting into what was essentially a civil war. However the US forced people into into it via conscription to push forwards their anti-communist agenda.

The thing is though, is conscription even valid anymore? I don't think there will ever be "times like Vietnam" or the World Wars again. In those days manpower was important but as has been said, we live in age of tanks, drones, satellites and tactical missiles. I think more and more war is becoming about technological superiority rather than who has the biggest army. Is there even a point to something like conscription when we're quickly moving into an age when there's hardly going to be any human presence on the battlefield at all?

OuterTsuchinoko April 4th, 2016 7:33 AM

I think it would be a good idea to have mandatory military service. There are so many young men and women who don't really know their way in life and military can help them a lot in becoming a self sufficient adult. Like stated above you can choose your path and doesn't necessarily mean you are being sent out to potentially die for reasons you may not agree with. I also see why people are against it though, being forced to do anything you don't want to isn't a good feeling, especially something as huge as military service. I always wanted to go into the military myself and tried, but was told with my condition that there is no waiver for it so I am unable to.

Livewire April 4th, 2016 9:21 AM

I would rather enact a system where if you put in 2-3 years of service in the Military, National Guard, Peace Corps, etc., your college education would be paid for as a more appropriate way of incentivizing civic and military service. I don't support conscription unless absolutely necessary (a WWII type scenario) where there's a severe, tangible threat to national security. As for the Selective Service, It should be amended to reflect modern realities, and either include women or be done away with entirely.

RegalSin April 4th, 2016 9:36 AM

Well that is some womanist propaganda I am reading here. If that is so then all people of all religions and races should be carted off to join the military. Join the military and if you survive the tremendous waste of time for something your parents should have been doing. Then you get to collect some benefits.

What I hate most is when a college student ( like my cousin ) joins the military and then feels he is better then everybody or a better man bs. Like my sex starved classmate in college had no money, no car, and was getting old. So he just became a security guard. Now he feels he is special or "Da man".

When is the last time you saw a bunch of othodox Jews in military? Yet they have nice houses and live like if it is 1920's. All this gentile bs is being thrown on to everybody else and makes it look good to waste your life. Military is not bad but have tons of rotten people with low-minded way of thinking.

My advice is stay on the boat or whatever and do not interact with locals unless you know somebody or want to go to a certain place. Idiot who knocked up my cousin went ashore and got into a fight and it was blamed on him. Lost his job and his rank.

Midnight shadow April 5th, 2016 3:04 AM

I think a lot of people are under the impression that conscription means being carted off to the front lines as soon as you get enrolled, which simply isn't true. I've spent a lot of time in Turkey where they have conscription and it's nothing like that. If anything, it's the reverse, where they complete their basic training and then get shipped off to guard some random outpost in the middle of nowhere.

Now, here's how I feel about military service. In the UK there are tons of 15-16 year olds who drop out of school and then spend the next 3+ years living in their parent's house doing nothing but leech money off them. Those are the type of people I believe should be drafted into the military. I believe that once someone hits 16, they should be given a choice:

1. Get a job/apprenticeship
2. Go onto higher education (i.e. university)
3. Join the military

That way they will be contributing to society instead of spending all their time at home leeching off their parents.

gimmepie April 5th, 2016 3:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnight shadow (Post 9191640)
Snip

You know a lot of the people who are "leeching off their parents" are actually looking for work or studying right? Or have another valid reason for doing so such a health issues or a disability. Not everyone who needs to rely on their parents outside of school is a bum.


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