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Gender
So um. i've never really started a serious topic before.. ah ;v; um. so. how do you guys feel about gender? do you think you were born as the gender you were assigned? if not, why? and when did you find out? are you out to anybody? do you think any other genders other than female and male exist?
How I feel about gender: I feel that it is very complicated and a social construct created to make people feel left out or odd if they are not those two genders that are male and female. Do you feel you were born as the gender you were assigned?: To be fair, I am still figuring that out. I don't know. Somedays I feel extremely uncomfortable in my body, and somedays I don't. I don't know, really. I'm still figuring out who I am and how I label myself. I found out possibly a year ago maybe? Yes, a year ago I think around this time. Are you out to anybody?: When I thought I was genderfluid or nonbinary, I did come out to my facebook friends. But now I am not so sure about myself and I'm not really out to anybody about my gender issues. It's very difficult for me to talk about to be honest. Do you think any other genders than male and female exist?: Yes. I think there is genderfluid, nonbinary and many others that I may not know about at this time. i'm bad at making serious topics I'm sorry ;v; just, uh, answer the questions and have a discussion c: |
I think gender is a very straight forward concept. Your sex depends on which Chromosome pairing you have. Males have XY and females have XX. As a human, you a biologically bound to this gender assessment. In rare cases of hormone inbalance you can get people who have aspects of the opposite gender physically. But to answer your question, I think that gender makes sense and is scientifically explainable.
I do think I was born as the gender I was assigned, because I am. I'm a boy, and definitely not a girl. I think this idea of other genders existing is purely psychological, and perhaps it can be related to biological means such as homosexuality may be. If you feel lost, I think it might be worth consulting a professional. There's nothing wrong with feeling differently, and thankfully, in today's society people are more accepting. I say, don't worry and take the time to figure things out. Biologically it's not really confusing. If you're having troubles mentally accepting your gender, then that's totally cool. Don't worry too much, you'll come to your own conclusion eventually. I'm not really qualified to give that advice because I've been a straight male all my life, but I think it'd apply :D |
I am transgender. Was born male, but nope not male as it turns out :v
And yeah, it's really stupid how we teach kids that there are "boy toys" and "girl toys." Like, does it matter? I think an even worse argument is that pink is a girls color, and so on. |
Sex is purely biological, gender isn't. Your sex is physical, while gender identity is mental. Here's a basic definition of Gender. "Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between and from masculinity and femininity." I believe that gender might be socially constructed to a certain degree, but I really don't know how much and we can only really make assumptions.
Even though I'm a 'normal' cisgendered female I think that it's natural that some people don't feel comfortable in their bodies because who we are at birth is. well.. completely freakin' random to us. >__> Sometimes I wish I could have surgery to make myself prettier, but even surgery wouldn't make me look like a model. I honestly think it's so unfair, but we need to learn how to accept and love ourselves because some things can't be changed, and we all have beautiful characteristics about ourselves that we take for granted! I don't wanna get too off topic though~ Also I'm sorry that you are dealing with body dysphoria because I can't imagine how uncomfortable that must be to deal with at times. :/ If you ever want to talk more in depth about it or anything VM me and I'll try to help. :) |
I view gender strictly as a biological concept. Society's view and construction on the roles of each gender are a different issue and honestly they should all be ridden of. The concept of gender was created relating to what is determined by one's biology and assessing the strengths of one and the other. (However, as FBI stated earlier, hormone imbalances may be a factor.) If you feel alright with what your biology dictated or not, it's another matter and, in my view, simply part of your personality - in which we are all different and there's no need to stick a label on everything. Labels are driving us apart and creating rifts by emphasizing our differences when they should drive us closer and celebrate our similarities.
Before you start to rage on me: In absolutely no way do I discriminate or think lowly of those that do not feel alright with their biology and I will not treat them differently because of that. You are, first and foremost, a human being to me and I will treat you as such, and the same way I would treat any other; you can identify as whatever the hell you want, I couldn't give less of a shit. You're a human. However, my sexual and romantic preferences take into account a person's biology. (As in, if you don't have the female reproductory system I will not date you or engage in sexual intercourse with you, no matter what you identify as) I was born as male, and never really had any doubt that I feel good with what my DNA determined. (First time I post on this matter and will not bother to do so again.) |
Cultures throughout history and all over the world have recognized that gender isn't as simple as we're often led to believe. Here are a few dozen examples of cultures with varying gender identities, including a third gender, a non-binary identity, and transgender identity.
Research on gender has been slow-going, but we're learning more and more about what gender is, and just how much of it is socially constructed. We've always had very strict ideas about what is "male" and what is "female" in terms of biology, appearance, behaviour, labour and interests, but those concepts are incredibly outdated and false. They create boxes we feel forced to fit into, limiting our freedom, creativity and individuality. Discarding those ideas benefits people of all gender identities. A big part of what we know now is that gender and sex are two very different things. It took me awhile to wrap my head around it, but the following chart really helped, so I hope it'll do the same for other people! http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Genderbread-Person-3.3.jpg If you don't believe there's more to gender than cismales and cisfemales, please consider listening to trans people and hearing their stories. You may be surprised by what you hear. :> ~Psychic |
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tl;dr sex has to do with genitalia, gender has to do with the societal constructs of male/female. As for gender I'll state that I've never really personally cared much for being related to either gender. I suppose you could identify me as agendered. Relating to that I'm sexually closer to asexual but perhaps saying demi would be more apropriate? Romantically I'll admit a female preference but under the right circumstances and with the right person I might not mind a dude. Admittedly I've never really felt the need to sort out my gender, sexuality or anything because I've never felt any pressure. I don't really think there's anything to "come out" about with agenderedness and asexuality because you're essentially just seen as a sad lonely heterosexual. It also makes it pretty easy to act in "normal" society. That being said my brother (biologically sister) came out to our family, her school, and extended (conservative Christian) family. I think that genderedness is an entirely personal choice that no one has any right to intervene with. As for thinking that other genders exist I think it's easy to answer this with some logic. The idea of a male and female in a societal concept had to be created ergo brought into existence. Therefore I don't think it's a stretch to assume that if we invented male and female identities based on sex then there should be more that are not based on sex. |
What I don't understand is that humans are animals right? But people use different definitions for the same term for humans and other animals. When you say what gender your dog is, all you are asking is whether they have a penis or a vagina. It should be the same for humans in my opinion. There are other examples as well such as asexualality. In other animals, asexualality means the animal has sex with themselves (e.g. worms) but in humans we mean the person doesnt have sex at all.
These multiple definitions unique to humans are quite frankly ridiculous and cause more harm than not. Anyway, going back to gender, the reason why gender (as opposed to sex) is such a ridiculous notion is because it is based on social stereotypes that could change at any moment. There was a time when it was socially unnaceptable for women to wear anything other than a dress or skirt. Now they can wear whatever they want. Similarly, years ago, blue was the "girl's" colour whereas pink was the "boy's" colour. Now it's the other way around. To the OP, if you have a penis your gender is male. If you have a vagina you are female. If you have both you are a hermaphrodite. That's all. Now if you happen to be a male who likes things that are typically things females like/do, that doesn't make you any less of a man. You are still a man, just a man who likes things other men don't. There is nothing wrong with that and you don't need to use made-up terms like gender fluid to justify your likes and dislikes. |
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Additionally, you're confusing asexuality with asexual reproduction. Asexual reproduction is when someone reproduces without having sex, and people who identify as asexual are not interested in sex. The reason they sound the same is because "a" means "not" and "sexual" means...sexual. So asexuality as a sexual orientation makes sense, and asexual reproduction as a means of reproduction also makes sense. The thing about language is you're allowed to use the same word in multiple ways. Quote:
For transgender individuals, it's not just about "I like dresses, so I must be a girl." In fact, there are trans women who can be masculine, there are trans men who can be feminine, and there are trans individuals who are androgynous or don't even fit in the male/female boxes. We obsess a lot over how trans people need to "pass" as the gender they identity as, and that's actually pretty harmful to both cis and trans people. Quote:
Also...every word is made-up. That's how words are created. But even if these words were "made-up," how does that make them any less legitimate? These concepts are still very real and treated seriously in the academic, psychological and medical realms. This isn't really a solid argument. ~Psychic |
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It is incredibly fortunate that many of us do not need to find specific words to define our identities. It's great that a lot of people can say "I don't believe in labels" and live by that. However, it is ignorant to assume that this means that labels have no value. In being able to label ourselves, we take ownership of our identities, empower ourselves, tell the world who and what we are, and we can find others like us in order to create community. Until we live in a world where everyone can be a special snowflake and not be asked "what is your gender/sexuality/race/nationality/religion/hobby/etc," having labels simply makes sense for people. Why do we need separate definitions for sex and gender? Because they are separate things. Because in doing so we can be more precise, and can identify when we're talking about biology and when we're talking about psychology. If you want to do some research into gender studies and can make a case that researchers and psychologists and doctors are wrong to make this distinction, I would be happy to hear it. It's great that you think people shouldn't care whether people fit into male/female boxes, but why are you then so invested in telling people that the way they identify is wrong and that the words they use are bad? If everyone should just be themselves as you say, what do you have against their specific ways of doing so? ~Psychic |
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You can identify with yourself anyway you wish, but you shouldn't feel that you need to label yourself and be in a particular group to know who you are. That is what I'm fighting against, the idea that if you are male you should be like x/y/z and if you are female you should be like a/b/c. In this day and age (in the western world at least) your sex doesn't dictate what you can and cannot do so be who you want and do what you want without feeling the need to justify yourself by using labels. |
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In North Carolina the city of Charlotte passed a law that said it was okay for people to use whatever bathroom. Higher up the government chain at the state level they passed a law to stop this (which they have the legal power to do, usually) that said you could only use the bathroom that matched the sex/gender you were assigned at birth. Basically, if you were trans you wouldn't be able to use the bathroom that matched your gender. We can (hopefully) all agree that this move was dumb and hurtful and probably done out of fear and not understanding. The thing is, if you are a trans person you probably don't want to be associated with the gender you were assigned at birth. If the law is trying to force you to do that, it's going to be uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for you. Ideally you'd not have that kind of law, but since it exists you can only fight against it by explaining what it means to be a trans person, by using definitions to fight against the misconceptions of other people. If we don't use labels, don't have terms for different expressions of gender and sexuality, then someone is going to act on a misconception because they don't know any better. That can cause harm. |
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As I said before, trans people do not want to transition because they think “I’m a boy but I can’t wear makeup, so I must be a girl.” If it was that simple, then trans people wouldn’t go through the psychological evaluation, the hormone therapy, the sexual reassignment surgery, and other surgeries and therapies (all of which costs thousands of dollars). They wouldn’t endure the struggle of choosing the right bathroom and getting the sex marker changed on their official records, not to mention all of the social stigma and discrimination that trans people face on a daily basis. I would highly encourage you to read trans peoples’ stories to better understand their perspective. I don’t really know what else to say without repeating myself, as you haven’t really responded to the last 3 paragraphs from my previous post. You’re claiming that labels divide us, and have yet to provide any proof. I just don’t see why you’re so personally invested in not having labels for gender identity, considering it doesn’t affect your life while significantly benefiting others. Quote:
I hope you realize how that sounds and will reconsider this frame of mind. I don’t know what “my kind of ambition” means, but my impression is it sounds like you don't think "people who focus on gender" can be ambitious or successful. If that's the case, I'd like to point out that while, like other LGBTQIA people, trans people tend to struggle more financially because of the job discrimination and the housing discrimination (which are legal in most of the world) and high rates of homelessness trans people face, on top of that, transitioning also costs thousands of dollars. That definitely makes things harder. But in spite of all that, all you have to do is Google successful transgender people to see plenty of “ambitious” and successful transgender folk, non-binary folk, and other people who don't fit in the cismale/cisfemale boxes. And that's not to mention the esteemed authors, academics, anthropologists, psychologists and doctors who focus on gender (cis or otherwise). It's great to hear you're still supportive, but imo we have to consider the world that trans people live in and the unique struggles they face, and the fact that many have been able to do great things regardless. :) ~Psychic |
I think all gender identities exist somewhere along the binary spectrum between male and female. The reason for this is that male and female gender roles were derived from differences between the sexes. Other gender identities were derived from male and female gender roles. I think there is a male-female dimension of gender but no further dimensions.
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I get what you are saying about finding the sense of community, and this is probably the biggest difference between living in England as opposed to America. Where I live (near Brighton - a very open gay community) means that the community has been there for me without me having to seek it out using labels. I used to take that for granted thinking it was the same in the entire western world. Now I know that homophobia is still a big issue especially in America, with LBTQ youths getting kicked out of their homes just for coming out to their parents. Different definitions between gender and sex? Again you are right that we need a distinction between the 2 in terms of the biology and the psychology. My point is that people seem to put so much emphasis on their sex to dictate what they can and cannot do, in an age where people can do what they want regardless of sex. Go back 100 years or so and I could understand why some people don't like being separated into male/female brackets but now things are different. Being male or female doesn't mean nearly as much anymore as it did 100 years ago. I realise at this point that I am not making my arguments as clear as I would like, mostly because I am still learning about how I truly feel about this. The points I try to put across make sense in my head but then I write them down and they sound silly and weak. But now I'm getting off topic. Hopefully this post will help explain myself a bit more. |
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Is Transgenderism a mental disorder? Technically speaking it is for here is the definition: Quote:
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Psychology is not nearly as soft as people make out, certainly nowhere near so as it was in the past. I have no problems hearing out a dissenting opinion, but your original post contained no information aside from your own narrow viewpoint. I originally wasn't going to participate in this discussion for similar reasons, but your post irked me enough to pull me in xD. Quote:
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Gender definitions confuse me. And most people will probably put that down as me not having any issues myself and being an assumed cis male.
But the thing is... I'm not masculine? I don't fit the stereotypical male in many ways. I have plenty of feminine and neutral characteristics but I still define myself by my literal sex. So it somewhat confuses me :(. |
Ah so much arguing..I just want to say I had a boyfriend who I was dating for 3 months, but me and him had a couple arguments about gender and stuff. He thinks there is only male/female, and no other genders (such as genderfluid or agender or anything like that) and he said that if I was going to be transgender (if I happened to be), that he wouldn't support me. He wouldn't like me if I was a man if I happened to be, and that really irked me. So..I broke up with him. I realized that I needed someone who supported me more and liked me for who I was no matter what changes I made to myself and wouldn't make me change myself to cater their needs or to please them.
That being said, I now realize I deserve better, and I am still gender questioning of course. A few people asked why I broke up with him and I had to tell them that he was transphobic and that I was questioning who I was, but I didn't go any further. They all understood and thought it was the mature decision to do. As for Midnight Shadow, why do labels bother you? I merely want to label myself because it makes me more comfortable with who I am. I do not see that as a crime and I apolgize if you do. Sorry for the long post. Just um..yeah. |
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I think people should feel comfortable about who they are without having to describe themselves with a label. It's not necessary and the feeling of necessity does more harm than good. |
How I feel about gender: I think the tragic case of David Reimer and Dr. John Money shows inadvertently that true gender identification is not a learned behavior, but a hardwired recognition of self that is more clearly realized when one matures. Gender dysphoria is a disorder, and when unresolved will bring about other mental conditions that rise from prolonged, unresolved dysphoria. Strong feelings of displacement can be mitigated, managed, or resolved with professional help. Care for gender dysphoria actually is standardized in the medical industry now, as by The World Professional Association for Transgender Health.
I believe children who show attitudes or behaviors that are not typical of their culture's gender roles do not necessarily experience gender dysphoria or identify as transgender or gender nonconforming, and just as I am against religious indoctrination of extreme and mature themes for children, so too am I against "progressive" indoctrination of children who are too young to understand their feelings to be fit into a box of an alternate gender identity, based on quirks that their parents are left up to interpret and feel the need to immediately act on in an invasive transition for said child. I also do not use "gender" as the catch-all term for the clear distinction between biological sex and with what one feels like identifying. The two achieve two different things. Born as the gender assigned: I know for a fact that I am a thoroughbred male. Genders other than female and male: I think everything lies on a spectrum between male and female, and nothing extends beyond. People who feel like an anomaly and request that I treat them so distinctly through what I consider bizarre demands to practice and therefore validate that recognition, I just wipe my hands of them. I don't indulge xe's, xhe's, xir's, and any other pxrsons of the like because the ones I've crossed online and the one legitimate time offline have exhibited attitudes and behaviors I want no part of, whatsoever. |
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edit: Not that I was implying you're in any way transphobic. I had a post I read before yours in the back of my mind while typing. |
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