The PokéCommunity Forums

The PokéCommunity Forums (https://www.pokecommunity.com/index.php)
-   Previous Generations (https://www.pokecommunity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=200)
-   -   2nd Gen GEN 2 are bad starters? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=368907)

MrFox1993 May 15th, 2016 10:06 AM

GEN 2 are bad starters?
 
So I was playing PokeMMO earlier today and the channel I was in got into a argument and what gen is the best and it ended buy someone staying the gen 2 starters are bad so I'm just wondering what everyone opinion is on what's the best starters in all gens of Pokémon personally I enjoy gen 1+2 what do u think?

Mawa May 15th, 2016 10:50 AM

Well for me they are the best starters! But this generation is my favorite, these games are my favorite.
I mean, totodile is awesome!

MrFox1993 May 15th, 2016 10:54 AM

I like cyndaquil he is awesome but I like all of then

illumine May 15th, 2016 11:52 AM

Realistically the starters became more regularised and simplistic by R/S/E, and generally quite cutesy by D/P/Pt. Perhaps they're mourning the lack of this? In any case, G/S/C's starters aren't particularly bad by comparison to the others, and generally have an underpronounced look which is quite effective in the context.

Crizzle May 16th, 2016 5:36 AM

If you ask me, Gen 2 starters are the best. Gen I and Gen III have good starters, but nothing beats Totodile and Cyndaquil, not to mention their awesome evolutions. Chikorita's okay too for those who like a more feminine Pokemon.

Gandhi Savage May 16th, 2016 7:53 AM

Well I really dislike Chikorita so if they're coming at the starter set from that angle then I completely understand! However, I am a massive fan of both Cyndaquil and Totodile - they're like the ideal starter Pokémon: the perfect mix of cute and cool.


BettyNewbie May 16th, 2016 7:53 AM

I think it's because none of the Gen 2 starters have secondary types that cause them to be seen as underwhelming. Monotype Pokémon usually need extremely good stats and/or movepools to overcome the many drawbacks of having no secondary type.

And, none of them really have the stats or movepools that would do that. Typhlosion is a special attacker with mostly physical attacks (both GSC and HGSS), and Feraligatr is a physical attacker with mostly special attacks (GSC). The less said about Meganium, the better, especially when you consider that its own region's gym lineup renders it almost completely useless.

Imperator161 May 17th, 2016 3:53 PM

Competitively, the gen II starters aren't that great. It's a combination of the typing (I don't mind monotype starters, but they aren't unique enough to stand up against other "better" Pokemon of their types in a competitive situation), stats (not the best), and movesets (many of which didn't match their stats). Some of this improved after the physical/special split, when Feraligatr's movepool shifted from almost entirely special to more heavily physical, but there's nothing particularly amazing about the gen II starters in battle, especially when you consider them in their original form. Couple that to the fact that they still don't have megas, and most people haven't thought much about the gen II starters in a while.

That said, aesthetically, favorite starters are a matter of preference, and then gen II set is my second-favorite (after gen I). I like their designs (but I think I like simpler designs overall), and any one of them is good enough for getting through the main GSC game. I used the Totodile line and fell in love with it, and I've always loved how Typhlosion can learn Thunderpunch to take out water types (and the TM is available at the department store and not in game corner coins, which makes it that much better).

Hikamaru May 17th, 2016 7:28 PM

While these starters aren't badly designed, it's a combination of no dual-types and bad movepools that make the Johto starters underwhelming compared to other regions' starters. Then there's the Gym Leaders being completely unfavourable to Chikorita, making it one of the worst starters to use.

bubblesbean May 17th, 2016 7:59 PM

Feel like I'm in the minority, but gen II aren't my favourite set of starters at all, saying that nor are gen V

BettyNewbie May 18th, 2016 9:41 AM

I think a big thing that inadvertently helped Cyndaquil and Totodile in GSC was a lack of decent Fire and Water types before the postgame.

One reason Squirtle wasn't the greatest choice in RBY (either as the starter in RB or as the gift in Yellow) was because of all the superior Water types you could get later on, such as Gyarados, Vaporeon, Starmie, Lapras, and Slowbro. That wasn't exactly the case in GSC, where the usefulness of most of these Pokémon was nerfed by either the split Special stat (Gyarados, Slowbro), lack of easily available Water Stones (Vaporeon, Starmie), or lack of Ice Beam/Thunderbolt TMs (Gyarados, Starmie, Lapras). Furthermore, the best new Water type, Kingdra, was a trade evolution (and with an item that wasn't even available until after the 8th badge) and possibly even needed to be bred to reach its maximum usefulness (ie. Aurora Beam).

This made Totodile a far more attractive choice in GSC than Squirtle was in RBY. You got it early, it had solid, usable stats, it was guaranteed a good Ice move early on with Ice Punch, and it also had Bite/Earthquake for extra coverage. It also probably did the best against the gyms and E4, overall. Neither of Feraligatr's weaknesses even appeared until Kanto (Surge and Erika), and by then, you likely had other Pokémon to easily deal with those gyms (heck, even Feraligatr itself could do it with Ice Punch/Earthquake).

As bad as the Water type situation was in GSC, though, Fire types had it even worse. Lack of Fire Stones eliminated Arcanine, Ninetales, and even Flareon as options, and Houndoom wasn't available until the postgame. That pretty much left Magmar as the only real alternative to Typhlosion and only in GS, mind you (outside of getting lucky with a Magby from the Odd Egg, Magmar wasn't available until Mt. Silver in Crystal). Sad as it may sound, a Kadabra, Alakazam, or Gengar with Fire Punch was probably the best alternative to Typhlosion.

Disturb Not The Harmony May 20th, 2016 12:01 AM

I prefer Gen 1 the most, with Gen 2 as second-favorite. Didn't really like the starters much after Gen 2, for whatever reason.

Hedo May 20th, 2016 3:43 PM

Nope, they're not bad at all. Or at least I don't think so.
But I might be a bit biased as Pokemon Crystal was the first one where I beat the elite four which was a reall proud moment for me lol :P

Totodile is actually one of my favorite starters because of the memories I made with it durring that play through.

akaMike May 21st, 2016 9:28 PM

I have enjoyed every generation of starters except for Torchic so, i can't really choose.

Hikamaru May 24th, 2016 9:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akaMike (Post 9252324)
I have enjoyed every generation of starters except for Torchic so, i can't really choose.

But Torchic is a 3rd Gen starter...

Anyways, agreeing with Betty, the reason why Totodile and Cyndaquil were appealing was the lack of good Water and Fire Pokemon until very late in the game. Chikorita was mainly outclassed by other Grass-types so there was less of a reason to use Chikorita, like how Squirtle wasn't the best pick in the Kanto games due to better Water-type options.

TomPhanto May 25th, 2016 8:59 AM

The Johto starters are unique in their own ways, as they're the only starters to not have any additional typings.

Though in my opinion, the weakest starters are the Unova starters, since I don't find any of them except for Contrary Serperior to be too helpful in the story. Samurott is decent, but the other water starters are better.

Though I find that the Hoenn starters are the strongest since I like their designs and their power.

Hikamaru May 25th, 2016 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomPhanto (Post 9256891)
Though in my opinion, the weakest starters are the Unova starters, since I don't find any of them except for Contrary Serperior to be too helpful in the story. Samurott is decent, but the other water starters are better.

You are sorta on the right path there, given the Unova trio have the weakest base stat totals of all the starters and they all face getting outclassed by other Pokemon of their types (but then again, I love Unova and I still love these starters) and for a starter to be considered good to use in-game is not its stats or movepool, but if there are other options of their types that outclass them in terms of stats and movepool and depending on how far into the game those options were available, like what was pointed out regarding Totodile and Cyndaquil.

Sirfetch’d May 25th, 2016 11:21 AM

People often confuse simplicity with something that is bad. The gen 2 starters are very basic and nothing about them particularly stands out. That said, I find them to be really wonderful Pokemon. I don't think they need a secondary typing or a mega evolution to make them great. I enjoy their designs and have always had a ton of fun using each and every one of them.

akaMike May 26th, 2016 2:45 PM

I said "i have enjoyed EVERY GENERATION of starters, except for Torchic" Torchic being a singular starter i haven't like out of all the generations.

Bounsweet May 26th, 2016 10:37 PM

Chikorita is tied with Fennekin as my all-time favorite starter. The fact that it is so "underwhelming" is part of the appeal to me, I like when my team is balanced, and not just a super powerful starter that kinda carries the rest of my team through the game, that takes the challenge out of it.

That said, I like Cyndaquil and Totodile a lot. Totodile was my first starter in Silver, Cyndaquil when I got Gold, but I've just grown much more partial to Chikorita's line since I picked it in Crystla, and I use it exclusively now. I love the fact that it's feminine, because seriously, girls play Pokémon too and sometimes it's nice to have a starter option that feels like it's sort of aimed for the cute/pretty/elegant side. I'm a little put off by gens where all of the final starter evolutions are meant to look super "tough" or macho, like the gen I starters (as much as I've grown to love Venusaur) or to a lesser extent the gen V starters (although Serperior does have a pretty nice design, it's entirely worthless without its HA, meanwhile Meganium at least has some bulk and access to Reflect/Light Screen).

Caaethil May 27th, 2016 11:23 AM

Whoever said that must bite their tongue, and then bite it again. Hopefully it falls off so that we don't need to hear their cretinous lies again. Gen 2 starters are bad, the nerve...

Totodile is my first. He is pretty great.

Luzu May 28th, 2016 4:44 PM

Competitively? They're not exactly the best of starters compared to some of the other starters we have.

Otherwise? They're great, imo. They're still my favorite starters out of all the generations (though arguably Alola might become my favorites hahaha). Totodile was my first starter so I especially have a soft spots for him and Cyndaquil and Chikorita I also love to bits. I hope one day they get good Mega so they can fend their own competitively, but really even if they don't I wouldn't really give a damn. They'll still be precious to me.

Dedenne1 May 28th, 2016 6:30 PM

As far as stats and movesets go id say the starters arent that great. However I love the Cynaquil line (except for typhlosion) as far as design and chikoritas line has great overall designs. Totodile is the only one i can say i dislike just cause idk not that powerful or cute.

morthen May 29th, 2016 10:10 PM

Chikorita is underrated i feel. Its not the awesome sweeper that the water/fire starter is, and in general SP favors that type of play. But it got lot of tactical use, light screen, reflect, leech seed. Also, , while water types and arguably fire types are abundant, you cant really get a get a solid grass type until late game.

Limey-chan May 30th, 2016 11:56 AM

I'm quite surprised, reading this thread, that a lot of people share my favourite Gen II starter, Totodile. I was always under the impression that 90% of people liked Cyndaquil; the more you know, I guess!

But anyway, whilst it's true that I didn't quite share the same affection for the Gen II starters that I did for the Gen I originals, I thought they were solid enough Pokemon; both in terms of design and competitiveness. I believe they share their base stats with the other starters, the only real drawback was that they were monotype (though, arguably, this could be seen as an advantage to the Chicorita line, I hated how many part-Poison types there were in Gen I).

tl,dr; I liked them.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:00 AM.


Like our Facebook Page Follow us on Twitter © 2002 - 2018 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com.
Pokémon characters and images belong to The Pokémon Company International and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company or The Pokémon Company International. We just love Pokémon.
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2016 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com.
PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User generated content remains the property of its creator.

Acknowledgements
Use of PokéCommunity Assets
vB Optimise by DragonByte Technologies Ltd © 2023.