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-   -   All fire starters stand on 2 legs (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=369318)

mokonasakura May 21st, 2016 8:44 PM

All fire starters stand on 2 legs
 
For there final evolution all fire starts stand on 2 legs, sorry everyone who thinks litten will look like a bad ass arcanine hes going to look more pyroarish.

Iceshadow3317 May 21st, 2016 10:07 PM

Yeah i don't think that is proof that it will be a biepedal. Nothing is confirmed till proof. They are breaking traditions left and right. So at the moment, that is a very small possibility. If it isn't a fighting type, I don't see a point of it standing on 2 legs.

mokonasakura May 21st, 2016 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcyIce (Post 9252349)
Yeah i don't think that is proof that it will be a biepedal. Nothing is confirmed till proof. They are breaking traditions left and right. So at the moment, that is a very small possibility. If it isn't a fighting type, I don't see a point of it standing on 2 legs.

They found a way to fuck up delphox they will find a way to fuck up litten.

Bobbylicious May 21st, 2016 10:27 PM

Preach it soul sister. I've seen everyone complain about this way back when Braixen was revealed. I'm like, do you even play Pokemon because literally every first evoltion, par Cyndaquil, does this.

mokonasakura May 21st, 2016 10:48 PM

Just thought of how they will fuck him up. You see that awesome mustache that makes no sense on him you all love so much. You all also read how his fur is oil right? And if we are to believe the leak he will either be pure fire or fire/ground, but whats the oil fur for then? Well its a tuxedo, congrats you now have a cat man wearing a tux and one epic mustache for the final evolution.

OMG and there is more pokemon fusion was thought to maybe be the new thing and maybe this pokemon fusion fuses pokemon with pokemon instead of trainers so rowlett will bring the tie, litten will bring the suite, and popplio will bring the sweet collar.

illumine May 22nd, 2016 3:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mokonasakura (Post 9252355)
They found a way to **** up delphox they will find a way to **** up litten.

This seems reasonable.

Still, it needn't mean that much as yet, unless they explicitly opt to cleave to this tradition. A cat standing up would be a bit of a weird case, but they might well be able to do something similar even to a snake Fire starter, in spite of the wrath of God and commandments of Moses, so it's still uncertain as yet.

Standing symbolism with predatory cats does have some precedent in pottery, etc., if they wish to go with that kind of thing for Litten. Not doing so might seem more of an obvious route, though, but if it looked like Typhlosion they could always establish some kind of rivalry between the fire mouse and fire cat...

Iceshadow3317 May 22nd, 2016 10:26 AM

Technically speaking, Typhlosion is a 4 legged starter. Most art just shows him standing up. Delphox was a wizard/mage, it would have been odd for it to have been on all 4s. Trends are being broken like mad. Nothing can be predicted right now. And just an fyi, half the starters have started as bipedals.

Typhlosion is both, so it can be argued that it doesn't count. Tepig, Fennekin, and Litten are the only ones that have been 4 legged. 1 was fighting and 1 was a wizard/page inspired. So unless litten is based on something that wouldn't make since to not stand, it will be 4 legged. And as far as I can tell, it will be based off a Tiger, and if that is the case, it is probably both like Typhlosion.

Nah May 22nd, 2016 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mokonasakura (Post 9252293)
hes going to look more pyroarish.

just sayin', Pyroar is also 4-legged

Quote:

Originally Posted by Achromatic (Post 9252543)
Whilst it's true we can look at previous trends and assume how things are gonna go... why not be creative and assume they might switch things up? They have nothing to lose by doing so. :)

As much as I'd like to believe that Game Freak is serious about trying to break from the usual Pokemon mold and will really do it in Sun and Moon, I'm not really gonna believe it till I see it.

That's more a comment about the games in general and not the starters specifically though.

mokonasakura May 22nd, 2016 2:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nah (Post 9253186)
just sayin', Pyroar is also 4-legged


As much as I'd like to believe that Game Freak is serious about trying to break from the usual Pokemon mold and will really do it in Sun and Moon, I'm not really gonna believe it till I see it.

That's more a comment about the games in general and not the starters specifically though.

Yep sorry stupid me got the name confused with emboar.

BettyNewbie May 22nd, 2016 6:45 PM

Remember that we're talking about the same franchise that gave us three Fire/Fighting starters in a row. And, took until Gen 6 to produce a Grass starter that wasn't a reptile. And, took until the most recent gen to produce another starter base form that was dual type.

Sadly, I've come not to expect a ton of originality from GF with the starters anymore.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire May 22nd, 2016 9:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 9253601)
Remember that we're talking about the same franchise that gave us three Fire/Fighting starters in a row. And, took until Gen 6 to produce a Grass starter that wasn't a reptile. And, took until the most recent gen to produce another starter base form that was dual type.

Sadly, I've come not to expect a ton of originality from GF with the starters anymore.

Dual type base forms are an oddity. Most Dual type base form starters wouldn't make sense. I didn't even learn that Bulbasaur was part poison itself until Gen IV... it didn't scream poison unlike Venusaur. Now Rowlet makes sense as a Dual type from the onset.

Hikamaru May 22nd, 2016 9:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 9253601)
Remember that we're talking about the same franchise that gave us three Fire/Fighting starters in a row. And, took until Gen 6 to produce a Grass starter that wasn't a reptile. And, took until the most recent gen to produce another starter base form that was dual type.

Sadly, I've come not to expect a ton of originality from GF with the starters anymore.



The Fire starter evolutions being bipeds are mainly a coincidence, but with some designs it makes sense. It's interesting seeing Game Freak breaking the mold with the Grass starters lately, considering Chespin broke the reptilian streak and Rowlet is our first dual-type base starter other than Bulbasaur.


Fire still has the supposed Chinese Zodiac trend (Litten appears to be representing the tiger) and Water still has the amphibious creatures trend.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire May 22nd, 2016 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hikamaru (Post 9253765)
The Fire starter evolutions being bipeds are mainly a coincidence, but with some designs it makes sense. It's interesting seeing Game Freak breaking the mold with the Grass starters lately, considering Chespin broke the reptilian streak and Rowlet is our first dual-type base starter other than Bulbasaur.


Fire still has the supposed Chinese Zodiac trend (Litten appears to be representing the tiger) and Water still has the amphibious creatures trend.

Unless if you count the Honey badger and the Fox as not substituting the Rat and Dog respectively. Also Litten might be the 13th sign, the cat itself. If it were a Tiger it's name might be Litcub, not Litten as baby Tigers are cubs. Plus it's Japanese name is that of a species of cat, the Tabby plus Nyan (Neko nihongo for Meow).

PkmnTrainerElio May 23rd, 2016 12:09 AM

I hope Litten's final evolution will be bipedal... It's just a tradition that should never be broken...

BettyNewbie May 23rd, 2016 7:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 9253756)
Dual type base forms are an oddity. Most Dual type base form starters wouldn't make sense. I didn't even learn that Bulbasaur was part poison itself until Gen IV... it didn't scream poison unlike Venusaur. Now Rowlet makes sense as a Dual type from the onset.

Only because GF chose for things to be that way. While not all starter base forms would've worked as dual types, there were some that could've. (Mudkip comes to mind here. Its name suggests Ground typing, and it was essentially a starter version of Wooper from Gen 2, which was part-Ground.)

It's very easy for traditions to turn into formulas and become tiresome. Again, for almost 15 years, it was a "tradition" for the Fire starter to always be part-Fighting, and we all know how the fandom felt about that. Heck, we still haven't broken the "tradition" of always having a Fighting type starter, in general, with Gens 3-5 having Fire/Fighting and Gen 6 having Grass/Fighting. From what I've heard about Popplio, Gen 7 will likely continue the streak of Fighting starters.

Hikamaru May 23rd, 2016 7:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 9254228)
Only because GF chose for things to be that way. While not all starter base forms would've worked as dual types, there were some that could've. (Mudkip comes to mind here. Its name suggests Ground typing, and it was essentially a starter version of Wooper from Gen 2, which was part-Ground.)

It's very easy for traditions to turn into formulas and become tiresome. Again, for almost 15 years, it was a "tradition" for the Fire starter to always be part-Fighting, and we all know how the fandom felt about that. Heck, we still haven't broken the "tradition" of always having a Fighting type starter, in general, with Gens 3-5 having Fire/Fighting and Gen 6 having Grass/Fighting. From what I've heard about Popplio, Gen 7 will likely continue the streak of Fighting starters.

I always remember that fanart in the link there, but it is interesting that if Popplio becomes Water/Fighting (especially with all those theories going around) it'll mean we've had a part-Fighting starter for each new trio introduced in what has been around 13 years now.

BettyNewbie May 23rd, 2016 7:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hikamaru (Post 9254233)
I always remember that fanart in the link there, but it is interesting that if Popplio becomes Water/Fighting (especially with all those theories going around) it'll mean we've had a part-Fighting starter for each new trio introduced in what has been around 13 years now.

Which has become extremely tiresome, IMO. Even if it's not Fire/Fighting anymore, it's still a secondary typing that's getting reused over and over again to the exclusion of others.

I get that some secondary types would be too powerful for starters (like Dragon), but that doesn't mean that they have to constantly reuse the same ones again and again.

Hikamaru May 23rd, 2016 7:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 9254242)
Which has become extremely tiresome, IMO. Even if it's not Fire/Fighting anymore, it's still a secondary typing that's getting reused over and over again to the exclusion of others.

I get that some secondary types would be too powerful for starters (like Dragon), but that doesn't mean that they have to constantly reuse the same ones again and again.

I can easily understand. It's like Game Freak is giving off the impression that they don't want to use many secondary types due to being "too powerful" so they're sticking to middle-of-the-road power category such as Ground and Fighting, when those types are actually used quite often competitively due to their coverage. People got sick of Fire/Fighting starters as of 5th Gen, and at this rate they could be getting sick of Fighting starters in general.

Princess Sapphire May 23rd, 2016 9:38 AM

I agree completely. I can understand them wanting to have starters with secondary typings, bur for cryin' out loud, either keep them pure, or use type combinations that have yet to be used


As for all Fire started ending up bipedal, I think that's debatable. Typhlosion is capable of being on either 2 legs or 4. Each starter set seems to have a theme, although the Grass starter tradition is already broken. But here's my personal opinion on the themes, and my reasoning behind them:


Grass - Always based on a reptile
Fire - Final form always has exposed flame
Water - Capable of being on land and in water


The Grass tradition is already broken, as Chespin is not based on a reptile. He is much more like an armadillo


While most of the Fire starters are based on the Chinese zodiac, not all of them count. Cyndaquil is much more echidna oriented in my opinion. And though that is a rodent, it is not a rat. And Fennekin is clearly a fox, not a dog. But regardless of appearance, all the final Fire forms have an exposed flame - IE - Charizard/Infernape - tail flames, Typhlosion/Blaziken - able to control when their flames are exposed, Emboar has the firey beard, and Delphox has her fiery twig/magic wand


Water starters have a bit of a limit, as their theme is capability of being on land and in water. So, as much as we all want a dolphin-based Pokémon, it will never be as a starter, because it is water-bound


So........ turtle, crocodile/alligator, mudskipper, penguin, otter, frog, and now a sea lion. All water-oriented animals capable of being on land as well

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire May 23rd, 2016 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 9254228)
Only because GF chose for things to be that way. While not all starter base forms would've worked as dual types, there were some that could've. (Mudkip comes to mind here. Its name suggests Ground typing, and it was essentially a starter version of Wooper from Gen 2, which was part-Ground.)

It's very easy for traditions to turn into formulas and become tiresome. Again, for almost 15 years, it was a "tradition" for the Fire starter to always be part-Fighting, and we all know how the fandom felt about that. Heck, we still haven't broken the "tradition" of always having a Fighting type starter, in general, with Gens 3-5 having Fire/Fighting and Gen 6 having Grass/Fighting. From what I've heard about Popplio, Gen 7 will likely continue the streak of Fighting starters.

Actually it's 11 years. RS came out in Japan in 2002, XY came out 2013. So it's closer to 10 than 15 xD.


Ah, you're right about that one. Also, Gen IV gave us a second part ground final evolution starter after Swampert in the previous Gen. Now we might complete the Ground trio if rumor on Litten being Fire/Ground prove accurate.


Types most commonly paired with the starters are
none (pure), Fighting, Ground, and thanks to Rowlet Flying. Dragon also counts if you include the starter Megas.


Types we have yet to see in more than one so far are
Poison (I)
Steel (IV)
Psychic (VI)
Dark (VI)

BettyNewbie May 23rd, 2016 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 9254457)
Actually it's 11 years. RS came out in Japan in 2002, XY came out 2013. So it's closer to 10 than 15 xD.

Talk about pointless nitpicking. :rolleyes2: Besides, the last games to not have a Fire/Fighting starter before XY were GSC (1999/2000), so, yes, it WAS close to 15 years between non-Fire/Fighting starters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hikamaru (Post 9254246)
I can easily understand. It's like Game Freak is giving off the impression that they don't want to use many secondary types due to being "too powerful" so they're sticking to middle-of-the-road power category such as Ground and Fighting, when those types are actually used quite often competitively due to their coverage.

I don't get this argument. Again, I could see Dragon being too powerful for a starter, but I don't see what the issue with other types would be. As you said, Ground and Fighting are actually quite powerful types themselves, and we also previously had a starter that was Steel (Empoleon), another powerful type.

Of course, I get the impression that GF increasingly wants people to abandon their starters after a certain point in the game just like an early game rodent or cocoon bug. This was especially the case in Gen 5, where the starters had mediocre stats and movepools (and two were mediocre monotypes) and were outclassed by tons of things found later in the games. Even in XY, they literally hand you a Kanto starter (and Mega Stone) early on, as if they're just begging you to eventually ditch your Kalos starter.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire May 23rd, 2016 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 9254491)
Talk about pointless nitpicking. :rolleyes2: Besides, the last games to not have a Fire/Fighting starter before XY were GSC (1999/2000), so, yes, it WAS close to 15 years between non-Fire/Fighting starters.



I don't get this argument. Again, I could see Dragon being too powerful for a starter, but I don't see what the issue with other types would be. As you said, Ground and Fighting are actually quite powerful types themselves, and we also previously had a starter that was Steel (Empoleon), another powerful type.

Of course, I get the impression that GF increasingly wants people to abandon their starters after a certain point in the game just like an early game rodent or cocoon bug. This was especially the case in Gen 5, where the starters had mediocre stats and movepools (and two were mediocre monotypes) and were outclassed by tons of things found later in the games. Even in XY, they literally hand you a Kanto starter (and Mega Stone) early on, as if they're just begging you to eventually ditch your Kalos starter.

I love Serperior but you're right about it's mediocre stats and typing. Not to mention it's move pool.Going by that then it can also be interpreted as 8 years of Fire/Fighting since 2002-2010 (Gen V). You did say 15 years of Fire/Fighting being 'tradition' in your original post. 15 is far worse than 11 or 8, even if it's a lot.

I just remembered this, I'm not sure if it's because of the internet not being as big back in the day, but no one seems to have complained about having Four Water mascots four generations in a row, the first three of those four having the blend typing of pure water. That right there is as bad as the part Fighting starters.

BettyNewbie May 23rd, 2016 8:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 9254529)
I just remembered this, I'm not sure if it's because of the internet not being as big back in the day, but no one seems to have complained about having Four Water mascots four generations in a row, the first three of those four having the blend typing of pure water. That right there is as bad as the part Fighting starters.

I think far fewer people had an issue with that because one of those pure Water mascots was a starter (Blastoise), another a weaker trio legendary (Suicune), and the other a stronger box legendary (Kyogre).

Now, RSE's (and later, XY's) blatant reuse of Gen 1's color scheme, on the other hand...

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire May 23rd, 2016 9:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BettyNewbie (Post 9254946)
I think far fewer people had an issue with that because one of those pure Water mascots was a starter (Blastoise), another a weaker trio legendary (Suicune), and the other a stronger box legendary (Kyogre).

Now, RSE's (and later, XY's) blatant reuse of Gen 1's color scheme, on the other hand...

RSE wasn't so bad in that they changed the green one to the third one while in Japan Blastoise took that position, plus the lines on them kind of mixed things up with yellow on Ray and red on Kyo, but Groudon's look black. Now Xerneas, Yvetal, and Zygarde are a blant copy of RSE take on RGB's color scheme. Well maybe that's the reason Z was skipped, they wanted to dodge that bullet xD. But honestly Zygarde felt like the most blant Rayquaza expy.

Oh well, at least people complained about all the Dragon mascots we got starting with Emerald and finally up to White 2. Hmm, maybe GF didn't want another Dragon mascot either :P

BettyNewbie May 24th, 2016 6:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire (Post 9254967)
Oh well, at least people complained about all the Dragon mascots we got starting with Emerald and finally up to White 2. Hmm, maybe GF didn't want another Dragon mascot either :P

Dragon mascots are extremely overdone, and I'll be tempted to punch somebody if either Solgaleo or (more likely) Lunaala turns out to be one.

Also, can we stop it with the mascot legendary trios, especially if third versions and sequels are getting retired? GF is going to have to break formulas if they want the franchise to survive.


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