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-   -   Sun & Moon - The End? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=371560)

Hikamaru August 31st, 2016 7:03 AM

I find it weird how he's now considering Team Skull have something to do with this theory.

clbgolden August 31st, 2016 2:52 PM

Can someone just give me a summary on all thre- oh wait, sorry, "two and a half" parts of this theory? I honestly feel it won't be worth my time watching them since they're pretty long, but I'm still curious as to why this theory is blowing up so much.

kingdenas September 1st, 2016 3:13 AM

I watched the first two and I already forgot about everything...

Pinkie-Dawn September 6th, 2016 11:03 AM

ProtoMario tries to debunk Logstin's theory:


Attribule September 6th, 2016 8:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colours (Post 9397940)
ProtoMario basically saying what most, if not the majority of us knew anyway, which is that as long as Pokemon keeps generating revenue and overall profit for Nintendo, it's not going to end.

Only a crazy person would believe the franchise would end as long as it's successful. The sales would have to drop down to "niche" levels to even be considered dropping; something like <500k/<1m sales a title.

However, there's strong reason to believe that Sun and Moon is the end of something. It may be the end of the current lore that ties the generations together, but a new one will take its place in Gen 8. Of course, nothing interesting may happen whatsoever. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Stuxify September 8th, 2016 2:15 AM

theres no way

Hikamaru September 8th, 2016 2:31 AM

Here is Lockstin's latest video in this so-called "saga":


Surprised Pinkie didn't post this earlier.

Pinkie-Dawn September 8th, 2016 8:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hikamaru (Post 9399945)
Here is Lockstin's latest video in this so-called "saga":


Surprised Pinkie didn't post this earlier.

That's because I only post the main videos (the ones that are multi-part). Those type of videos are just side-videos of his theory.

NightCard September 8th, 2016 8:14 AM

He also uploaded this:


Hikamaru September 8th, 2016 8:24 AM

The video's not working.

NightCard September 8th, 2016 8:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hikamaru (Post 9400282)
The video's not working.

Sorry about that, here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RSGN-REYj8

NightCard September 8th, 2016 6:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colours (Post 9400857)
For future advice, when you want to embed a particular youtube video, you want to do [youtube]1RSGN-REYj8[/youtube], as these are the indicators after the v= in the url that would allow you to embed the video in your posts. ^^

Thank you! I went ahead and edited my other post!

kingdenas September 9th, 2016 3:25 AM

God, I don't think I'll waste my time with the another theory... I watched the first two and I've already forgot about everything and I don't actually believe in it, so I don't think I'll need to watch the video '-' Does this kind of speculation about the current generation being "The end of the Pokémon Franchise" happened with other gens?

kingdenas September 9th, 2016 3:33 AM

Really? Than it's pretty unlikely Pokémon will end in gen 7. The franchise gains lots of money, so I don't think they will suddenly stop making Pokémon games :/

MrGriszell September 9th, 2016 4:07 AM

I hate when people say pokemon should reboot. They don't understand the word.

Pinkie-Dawn September 9th, 2016 6:57 AM

I know I said I would only post his multi-part videos and not his side videos, but this is something I'll have to make an exception since nobody's posted it here yet:


MarinoKadame September 9th, 2016 12:01 PM

I think the reboot will mostly only cater to a niche audience of pokemon and will probably end up making em lose money.

Attribule September 9th, 2016 5:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarinoKadame (Post 9401921)
I think the reboot will mostly only cater to a niche audience of pokemon and will probably end up making em lose money.

Reboots in general rarely pay off. Pokemon being rebooted would also mean the vast majority of what players own up to this point would be incompatible with the new game, as the Pokemon and whatnot wouldn't exist in the new canon.

Beyond the initial reboot, the only logical way to move the series forward would be to add changes, new Pokemon, etc again. But according to some, players don't like any of that stuff. Pokemon would reboot to Gen 1, then just... go nowhere from there? The series would stagnate.

Best course of action would be to not reboot the main series. If anything needs a "reboot" it would be the anime.

And this is using "reboot" in the sense of a "reset". If they rebooted, in the normal sense, it would mean that they would be remaking the series with a new vision. This means it wouldn't go back necessarily to "Gen 1", but an alternate interpretation of "Gen 1". For example: It would still have Mega Evolutions/Z Moves, and possibly even design changes to old Pokemon; removal of some of the forgettable Gen 1 Pokemon; likely including select post-Gen 1 Pokemon and whatnot. It wouldn't be the Gen 1 that started the franchise.

It would be more akin to reboots in comics. So a rebooted Batman is still Batman, but the rebooted version now has a huge alcohol and drug problem, and sometimes loses control and hurts himself and others. Alfred doesn't exist in this reboot because Batman killed him during one of his rampages.

Pinkie-Dawn September 9th, 2016 7:14 PM

Even my friends at Disquis don't agree with Lockstin's reasoning, for they believe reboots are only necessary if a franchise is progressively getting worse, which Pokémon isn't suffering from.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire September 9th, 2016 10:44 PM

We have had reboots before. Gen III & V. Gen III was the start of the post original vision of a series that was originally planned to end with GS. Plus it set off the remakes. Meanwhile BW was new pokémon only until pst game, and was The Pokémon Company even referred to them as a 'Reboot'. Huh, reboots tend not to do all that well for them, as RS and BW sold less than GS and DP did...

Ullion September 9th, 2016 11:52 PM

How Lockstin actually continuing with this? :| I really don't think Pokemon will reboot, not for a while yet I think.

Sunstruck September 11th, 2016 5:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Attribule (Post 9402200)
And this is using "reboot" in the sense of a "reset". If they rebooted, in the normal sense, it would mean that they would be remaking the series with a new vision. This means it wouldn't go back necessarily to "Gen 1", but an alternate interpretation of "Gen 1". For example: It would still have Mega Evolutions/Z Moves, and possibly even design changes to old Pokemon; removal of some of the forgettable Gen 1 Pokemon; likely including select post-Gen 1 Pokemon and whatnot. It wouldn't be the Gen 1 that started the franchise.

It would be more akin to reboots in comics. So a rebooted Batman is still Batman, but the rebooted version now has a huge alcohol and drug problem, and sometimes loses control and hurts himself and others. Alfred doesn't exist in this reboot because Batman killed him during one of his rampages.

This is essentially what Lockstin is saying is going to happen. And personally, while it's only a theory, I don't think it's too far-fetched.

It's true that a full reboot wouldn't be profitable for them, for reasons already stated. But they could change up their formula, like they're doing with Sun and Moon; away with the gyms, maybe even the whole Elite Four and Champion deal. They could come up with something new; something different, but something that still appeals to their target audience. As Lockstin said, I feel that the fact that Sun and Moon is mixing things up is an indicator towards them 'testing the waters', seeing if people like that sort of idea. They're experimenting. But a reboot doesn't necessarily mean everything needs to change or be replaced -- it would just be a much more radical change than anything they've done in the past.

This doesn't necessarily mean the Pokemon will all be replaced or changed. For evidence of this, I point to Gen III and V, where everything that was said about them being unsuccessful due to being reboots was true. I do think they were reboots, but soft ones, because they never really changed up the formula -- the only thing they really did was replace the majority of the old Pokemon with new ones, which also happens to be people's chief complaint about them. But as we've seen with X and Y, as well as Sun and Moon, they've been trying to include Pokemon from all generations and keep that from happening again. I think they've learned their lesson; any reboot would include as many older Pokemon as possible -- possibly removing some of the least popular ones, but even that's a risk.

Basically, what I'm saying is that a reboot doesn't necessarily constitute an entirely new game. As Lockstin said, it's the beginning of a new cycle. A new formula or new gameplay mechanics; perhaps even a more mature/complex story. And 'more mature' doesn't necessarily mean all dark and gritty; think more like Pokemon Mystery Dungeon's level of story and character complexity, and Pokemon Origins' levels of maturity.

Pinkie-Dawn September 16th, 2016 9:48 AM

Well things have gotten interesting:


MarinoKadame September 16th, 2016 11:31 AM

Well yesterday youtube got a massive take down on the Pokemon anime subs. lot of Episode 42 English sub videos got taken down and I only managed to find 1 video left. Episode 43 tho no English subs only Spanish one.

It may be a side effect to the wipe.

Pinkie-Dawn September 22nd, 2016 3:42 PM

The long awaited third part of his "ultimate" theory has arrived:


Hikamaru September 22nd, 2016 4:02 PM

Yeah, I'm not paying attention to his theory anymore so it is surprising he's still uploading videos about it when I feel that it'll be irrelevant when the games come out.

Wyntilda September 23rd, 2016 7:36 PM

As a Thelemite who studies alchemy, astrology, the Tree of Life, etc., I have to say that these correspondences are fascinating, but also incredibly easy to make. While it wouldn't surprise me if GF is deliberately making occult correspondences in their games to deliver some sort of message or round out a general theme (this isn't uncommon in games), I feel like pointing out these correspondences, intentional or not, and trying to draw some sort of subliminal message from them will only lead to an endless round of "what ifs" until the game is released and the intentions and coincidences of these correspondences are made clear.

I think the amount of research that's gone into this is somewhat admirable, but it seems like it's just another one of those end times theories that never prove to be true. He seems to be attracting a good amount of attention, though. :P

Pinkie-Dawn October 20th, 2016 9:58 AM

Just 3 days before this thread becomes dead, Lockstin posted a 3.5 part of his theory (and it's shorter this time):


MarinoKadame October 20th, 2016 10:10 AM

Well they kind of confirmed a new game on the Nintendo Switch is in the making. Considering the Switch is an hybrid of Home Console and Handheld.

SightlessReality October 20th, 2016 10:18 AM

Cool beans, his stuff is interesting to listen to.

Pinkie-Dawn October 20th, 2016 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarinoKadame (Post 9457404)
Well they kind of confirmed a new game on the Nintendo Switch is in the making. Considering the Switch is an hybrid of Home Console and Handheld.

Except it's not an actual hybrid, because it's going to co-exist with the Wii U and 3DS (plus Game Freak has already reconfirmed that the main Pokémon games are sticking to handhelds).

PageEmp October 20th, 2016 6:07 PM

For some reason I can't really see this being the 'last' generation. Plus seeing how this series is making a lot of money I don't see how it could end.

MarinoKadame October 20th, 2016 6:21 PM

If the Switch can play 3DS and Wii U games it would be great tho.

Pinkie-Dawn October 21st, 2016 1:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarinoKadame (Post 9458013)
If the Switch can play 3DS and Wii U games it would be great tho.

Nope, it's been confirmed that the Switch doesn't have any backwards compatibility.

MarinoKadame October 21st, 2016 7:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn (Post 9458998)
Nope, it's been confirmed that the Switch doesn't have any backwards compatibility.

They mention physical, what about digital transfer ?

Pinkie-Dawn October 21st, 2016 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarinoKadame (Post 9459237)
They mention physical, what about digital transfer ?

No word about it yet, but I doubt it as far as previously released games that aren't Smash, Hyrule Warriors, and maybe Mario Maker goes.

CidHazard October 22nd, 2016 4:26 AM

I mostly think it's more of an End of an Era...

This is the changing of the guard... New director, new team, new hardware, new game philosophy... etc.

Will this be the end of Pokemon... and then a reboot, ushering in only gen 1 pokemon on a the NX(Now the switch) as Noggin theories says. Doubt it, really they're just overthinking this (To an almost insane level: not in a good way either)

Xerecies October 29th, 2016 4:29 PM

I don't believe it is the end of Pokemon. You and others are reading way too far into it.

AmetsuCAT October 29th, 2016 4:56 PM

I hope not, I wouldn't know what to do with my life without it.

SightlessReality October 30th, 2016 8:27 AM

With the info of knowing that there will be past characters in Sun & Moon strengthen or weaken his reboot theory?

To me it strengthens it.

Though in fairness even if he's wrong about an actual reboot he's still predicted a fair bit of stuff.

WingsofBliss October 30th, 2016 10:20 PM

While I don't agree with his theory about Pokémon coming to an end, I still find his speculation regarding the Aether Foundation's role in the game to be very interesting. It adds on perfectly to the space theme that SM seems to be pushing for; aside from the alchemical themes that Lockstin is pushing for, astronomists and physicists during the late 19th century believed that "aether" was the material that made up the universe above the terrestrial sphere, which meant the regions above and beyond the Earth's moon.

With that said, it's interesting to note that the Aether Foundation are conducting research on Cosmog and Ultra Beasts, all of which seem to be space and alien-themed. Space travel in-game incoming? That's pretty huge in terms of plot for the main series games. When speculation like that starts up, that's probably why a few people think it's the "end".

Mute_Krabby October 31st, 2016 8:30 PM

No, it won't be the last gen. (I fully expect Pokemon to still be going in another 20 years).

And no, I don't expect a reboot either. A reboot would be absolutely moronic and I would not be a part of it lol.

Poke_Spirit November 1st, 2016 9:39 AM

This ridiculous theory every generation..maybe the end for me but I would have to try it when released for full review.

Smash Brony November 2nd, 2016 8:45 AM

I severely doubt that this will be the end... Pokémon is a household name & is probably MORE popular now than it was "back in the day".

& I think that only "genwunners" would support a reboot & no offense to them, but I'm pretty sure they're in the minority. So if they were to do a reboot...

It wouldn't be pretty.

JoyStar November 3rd, 2016 6:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poke_Spirit (Post 9471790)
This ridiculous theory every generation..maybe the end for me but I would have to try it when released for full review.

I can though understand in this case why some wonder if Sun and Moon will be the last generation—with all the allusions to past generations and stuff it almost gives a sense of wrapping things up, though I think it's mainly due to this year being the franchise's 20th anniversary

Green Pidgeot November 5th, 2016 8:14 AM

Fans go along with many things, theyd probably accept a reboot. Not likely though.

It isnt an intense game idea, so it wld be a good time to leave. But that depends on if they wanted to.

L'Belle November 5th, 2016 8:15 AM

The only thing that should end is this ridiculous theory.

The Pokémon company is making SO much money as of now. They would be stupid and dumb to end it.

Piloswine November 7th, 2016 9:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CUTIEFLY!!! (Post 9301487)
If pokemon ceased to exist I would have nothing to live for. I hate to see threads like this.

Come on, there're lots of things to live for. If pokemon ends you can begin to play other franchise of games. There's no need to worry.


This is kinda off topic, but this rememebers me of a magazine (a brazilian magazine - I'm brazilian btw) that made a "last" number and used that crying pikachu picture that was on the youtube video on the first post the cover just to change a lot of things in the magazine and launch it again with a new name. They said that the magazine "evolved". That was a good marketing trick. And brings me memories, oh memories.........


Well, I don't think pokemon will end now. I guess game franchises don't end, like superheroes. They will just keep finding new ways of experiencing this stuff.

Illusionss November 7th, 2016 9:59 AM

Yeah, I can definitely seeing them ditching one of their most successful franchises, after all why would they want to make any more money from it?

Kidakairis November 7th, 2016 3:18 PM

I don't see Pokemon ending for a very long time considering it is the fourth best selling franchise ever made. Even if the games started dropping in quality they would still keep making them because loyal fans would still buy them. Sonic the hedgehog went down hill fast in quality and managed to stay around for years and hasn't even sold half as many games as Pokemon. Clickbating videos are just clickbait :).

SightlessReality November 7th, 2016 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidakairis (Post 9479294)
I don't see Pokemon ending for a very long time considering it is the fourth best selling franchise ever made. Even if the games started dropping in quality they would still keep making them because loyal fans would still buy them. Sonic the hedgehog went down hill fast in quality and managed to stay around for years and hasn't even sold half as many games as Pokemon. Clickbating videos are just clickbait :).

Clickbait, no. These videos have over 300 hours worth of both research and editing put into them. Course if you'd actually watch the videos you would know that. Just saying.

Kidakairis November 7th, 2016 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SightlessReality (Post 9479328)
Clickbait, no. These videos have over 300 hours worth of both research and editing put into them. Course if you'd actually watch the videos you would know that. Just saying.


Putting "The end?" next to crying Pikachu in thumbnail with a title like Ultimate Pokemon Theory: Sun and Moon IS THE CLIMATIC ENDING! is by definition clickbait. Also what research? All I heard was someone drawing conclusions from seemingly nowhere while speculating a deeper meaning from what material we have received about the game. Not even trying to start anything but your comment comes off as rude. In all fairness though most Poketube videos anymore are just clickbait because we desperately need SuMo to release to weed out all the theories and rumors videos being posted lately. If you are into this kind of video I'm glad you like it but being rude to others based on there opinions of it isn't very nice :).

SightlessReality November 7th, 2016 5:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidakairis (Post 9479384)
Putting "The end?" next to crying Pikachu in thumbnail with a title like Ultimate Pokemon Theory: Sun and Moon IS THE CLIMATIC ENDING! is by definition clickbait. Also what research? All I heard was someone drawing conclusions from seemingly nowhere while speculating a deeper meaning from what material we have received about the game. Not even trying to start anything but your comment comes off as rude. In all fairness though most Poketube videos anymore are just clickbait because we desperately need SuMo to release to weed out all the theories and rumors videos being posted lately. If you are into this kind of video I'm glad you like it but being rude to others based on there opinions of it isn't very nice :).

If anything your being rude by calling the video Click Bait. They are theory videos so having a Thumbnail like that IS fine. They aren't saying that this WILL happen just that it could just as any theory would. And the research comes looking through various religions, nearly all of the pokemon anime, and even in science. Hell, it's mind boggling the stuff this guy and those have helped him have found to connect nigh perfectly. And even if the over all theory that the games will be rebooted turns out not to be true, they'v been right about a bunch of stuff.

Kidakairis November 7th, 2016 5:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SightlessReality (Post 9479390)
If anything your being rude by calling the video Click Bait. They are theory videos so having a Thumbnail like that IS fine. They aren't saying that this WILL happen just that it could just as any theory would. And the research comes looking through various religions, nearly all of the pokemon anime, and even in science. Hell, it's mind boggling the stuff this guy and those have helped him have found to connect nigh perfectly. And even if the over all theory that the games will be rebooted turns out not to be true, they'v been right about a bunch of stuff.

I am still confused what you mean by the stuff he has found that is connected, like what? I mean I remember the game theory connecting the Chuck cheese murder to five nights at Fridays held several similarities to one another but in the end it was just the game theorist reading to far into the events of the game. Also clickbait isn't insinuating rudeness in anyway, it is a common way to draw readers or viewers into web page to maximize views for profit. If you thought I was trying to be mean by it I apologize. I was just trying to point out how lots of Poketubers are resulting to clickbait titles to drive up views because it seems theories and speculation are trending now more than actual news for the game. Your first post came off as rude to me because it sounded like you where belittling my opinion. Also ending it with just saying seemed like an insult. I probably just reading into it wrong then.

SightlessReality November 9th, 2016 11:48 AM

The last part till release.

SightlessReality November 16th, 2016 2:00 PM

The awaited Dunk video from his Malicious Side.


CidHazard November 16th, 2016 5:41 PM

Game Freak is not as competent to think this long term and far ahead...

Yup that pretty much sums it up. Game Freak isn't From Software (Whom made an amazing lore filled worlds that encourages fan speculation and interpretation) What you see is what you get with GF.

Japanese writers tend to take religious symbolism at face value... unless it's japanese mythology.

Sektor November 17th, 2016 6:05 PM

God I hope not. . . but they are going a little wild with all these changes. NO BIKE! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

CnifeKat January 11th, 2017 7:49 AM

I don't think that GameFreak would seriously stop one of the BEST and well-known game series.
I think the end may come when they run out of ideas for new Pokemon. :P


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