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-   -   News Outrage sweeps nation after two black men murdered by police (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=372136)

Livewire July 7th, 2016 6:19 PM

Outrage sweeps nation after two black men murdered by police
 
Source

Quote:

ST. PAUL ? Amid protests and national outrage over the brutal police slaying of Philando Castile, Minnesota Gov. Mark Dayton (D) said Thursday he believed racism played a major role in the killing.

Would this have happened if ... the driver and those passengers in the car were white? Dayton asked. I dont think it wouldve.

A police officer shot Castile, 32, at point-blank range Wednesday during a traffic stop in the St. Paul suburb of Falcon Heights. Castiles girlfriend, Diamond Reynolds, recorded the aftermath in a graphic video she posted to Facebook. The video shows his final moments as she sits in the car next to him, with her young daughter in the back seat.

The Justice Department announced Wednesday it will monitor an ongoing state investigation into Castiles death. A DOJ spokesperson said the department is also prepared, if necessary, to conduct a separate investigation and consider the matter under federal law.

Reynolds said she and Castile were pulled over for a busted tail light. She said he let the police officer know he had a gun in the car as he was reaching for his drivers license, and the officer shot him four or five times for no reason.

Reynolds accused the officers at the scene of not providing first aid to Castile after he was shot. They did attend to the officer who shot Castile, who was upset following the shooting, she said.

They pulled him over to the side, she said. And they began to calm him down and tell him that it was OK and that he was going to get through this ? as they put me in the back of the police car.

The news of Castiles death sparked outrage across a nation already reeling from a string of high-profile police killings of black men, the most recent of which occurred less than 48 hours before in Louisiana. Alton Sterling, 37, was shot dead by a police officer early Tuesday morning outside of a convenience store in Baton Rouge.

Sterlings death led to protests and calls for an independent probe into the slaying. The Department of Justice has already opened an investigation into the incident.

Politicians, celebrities and Americans of all stripes have reacted to the deaths with anger and sadness.

In remarks on Thursday, President Barack Obama called for a greater sense of urgency around police reform.

We have seen tragedies like this too many times, Obama said. All of us as Americans should be troubled by these shootings because these are not isolated incidents, theyre symptomatic of a broader set of racial disparities that exist in our criminal justice system.

There is no contradiction between us supporting law enforcement and also saying that there are problems across our criminal justice system, he added. There are biases, some conscious, some unconscious, that have to be rooted out.

Philandos mother, Valerie, 60, told CNN Thursday her son knew to comply if he was instructed to do so by law enforcement, which makes his death at the hands of the police that much more difficult to comprehend.

They took a very good person, she said. Everybody that knows my son knows that he is a laid-back, quiet individual, that works hard every day, pays taxes ... thats it. Hes not a gang-banger, hes not a thug, hes very respectable and I know he didnt antagonize that officer in any way.

He worked an honest job five days a week, she said.

That sentiment was echoed by St. Paul Public Schools, where Castile had worked in the nutrition services department since 2002. The school system issued a heartfelt statement Thursday, and described a kind man with a ready smile who will be deeply missed.

Kids loved him. He was smart, over-qualified. He was quiet, respectful, and kind, said an unidentified coworker. I knew him as warm and funny; he called me his wing man. He wore a shirt and tie to his supervisor interview and said his goal was to one day sit on the other side of this table.

Hed been promoted to a supervisory role two years ago, the school district said.

St. Anthony interim police chief Jon Mangseth acknowledged during a Thursday press conference that the shooting had occurred, but offered few details. He confirmed that officers recovered a handgun from the scene, and that the officer responsible for the shooting has been placed on paid administrative leave pending an investigation.

Castile was the 561st person to be killed by police in the U.S. this year, according to unofficial data maintained by The Guardian. Hes also the 123rd black person to be shot and killed by police, according to a similar tracker kept by The Washington Post.


Video is graphic, you have been warned.

How to not get shot in the US:

1) Be White
2) Be White

Her July 7th, 2016 7:31 PM

Quote:

Wallet.
Sleeping.
Skittles.
Cell phone.
Loud music.
Cigarettes.
Cigarillos.
Shopping at Walmart.
Toy gun.
Failure to signal.
CD's.
It continues.

Livewire July 7th, 2016 8:08 PM

And now we have an active shooter incident in Dallas, two snipers have shot and killed several cops during a BLM protest there. There aren't many incidents that truly make me turn off the news at night and make me just shake my head in disgust, but this was one of those. It's just sad at this point, we go from mass shooting to mass hosting and racial tensions blowing up again. At what point does the scale truly tip and things blow up to the point that we actually get change?

Her July 7th, 2016 8:20 PM

This is simply unsubstantiated gut feeling with zero info outside of the official police tweets on the matter, but I can't help but feel like it was an intentional attack meant to deflect sympathy back to cops. It's all too common, unfortunately. Infiltration of black protests/rallies leading to escalation of said events and allowing the general public to return to calling them 'thugs', if not more direct words which I don't think need to be said.

But Occam's Razor would dictate that this sniper attack is a result of someone's foolish unrestrained aggression against a corrupt system, amplified by the seeming inevitability of the lack of change. Which is the likely answer in this case.

Sir Codin July 7th, 2016 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livewire (Post 9311679)
How to not get shot in the US:

1) Be White
2) Be White

Hate to break this to you, Live, but even being white doesn't make you safe:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-video-shooting-dylan-noble-20160707-snap-story.html

In other news, Peter Rosenberg saying exactly what needs to be said of the police brutality and nepotism amongst officers sweeping the nation:


Esper July 7th, 2016 11:03 PM

A Trump supporter also pulled a gun on BLM protesters in Portland, OR. No one died there, thankfully. He "feared for his life" apparently.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/hit-the-ground-trump-supporter-pulls-gun-on-black-lives-matter-rally-in-portland/

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarcharOdin (Post 9311872)
Hate to break this to you, Live, but even being white doesn't make you safe:

But you're still safer being white than being black. That's backed up by statistics and countless examples. That's the main point. I don't mean to completely dismiss this man's death at the hands of the police, but it shouldn't be used to say that everyone is equally at risk. That isn't the case.

Sir Codin July 7th, 2016 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esper (Post 9311896)
A Trump supporter also pulled a gun on BLM protesters in Portland, OR. No one died there, thankfully. He "feared for his life" apparently.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/hit-the-ground-trump-supporter-pulls-gun-on-black-lives-matter-rally-in-portland/



But you're still safer being white than being black. That's backed up by statistics and countless examples. That's the main point. I don't mean to completely dismiss this man's death at the hands of the police, but it shouldn't be used to say that everyone is equally at risk. That isn't the case.

Doesn't mean it can't get like that though.

I'm as white as they come: I have never felt safe around cops. EVER.

gimmepie July 8th, 2016 1:06 AM

There is a culture of division and violence in the US right now that needs to be changed. Right now, being different to another person in any way is likely to get you shot and killed. If you're black, a white man will shoot you. If you're white, an Arab will shoot you. If you're Arab, a black man and a white woman will take turns. If you're gay, if you're a bigot, if you believe, look or live different than your neighbour or even if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time - you're more likely to be shot than in any other Western country. I won't go as far as to say a "civilised country" anymore. There's millions upon millions of wonderful people living in the United States, and it's so wasteful that at any moment any one of them stands so much more of a chance of having a bullet put in their skull than they do here, or in New Zealand, Canada, the UK etc.

Obviously these attacks were racially motivated, whether they were consciously so or not is irrelevant. At this point though, the violence in the US is so excessive and disproportionate to the liberties and ammenities the country offers that I honestly don't think the reason matters anymore. There is something fundamentally wrong happening in the US right now where people - whether they are police officers or civilians or whatever - are finding it far too easy to turn to violence for whatever reason and where it's too easy to justify lethal force in people's minds.

We can talk all we want about stamping out racism, but this is clearly a problem that runs far deeper into the US' culture than just that. It's like in general the society there doesn't value life to the same extent as the western world. Whilst attacking racism is fantastic, its never going to completely go away, so something has to be done about the pro-violent culture children are growing up in if you want attacks like this to stop. It's not just about race anymore, it's about nobody valuing each other as equals.

/end rant

Her July 8th, 2016 1:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarcharOdin (Post 9311920)
Doesn't mean it can't get like that though.

I'm as white as they come: I have never felt safe around cops. EVER.

The point being though is that your fear is unlikely to have been derived from your race in correlation with an abusive, corrupt power structure. I'm sure your fear itself is more than justified (I don't know anyone who isn't afraid or distrusting of cops), but is not the same kind of fear that black people and other racial minorities commonly experience.

Kanzler July 8th, 2016 2:11 AM

Did anybody else hear about the five dead cops in Dallas?

Arsenic July 8th, 2016 3:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanzler (Post 9312059)
Did anybody else hear about the five dead cops in Dallas?

That's what I was just hopping on the site for. Two snipers I think it was, just shooting officers according to witnesses.

All these recent situations make me sick...

OuterTsuchinoko July 8th, 2016 6:15 AM

I had a feeling this was gonna happen yesterday. I called my mom and was talking to her about those two guys who got shot recently. I was telling her that I was scared for my brother because he is puerto rican but has a darker skin tone. He's always hanging out outside. I told him if he ever got stopped by a cop just to put his hands up and not even move, if the cop asks him for anything just tell them you're not gonna move and that they can take your ID or whatever out of your pocket themselves.

I also thought to myself that what happens if cops started getting attacked now in response to all this thats going on. And now it actually happened that same day. I wish officers would just use tasers like they used too. Why go straight for a gun when the taser will do just fine to take down a suspect. I used to watch Cops and other law enforcement shows all the time and first thing they would do was pull out the taser and it always worked. When did they switch that to a gun? Do they even carry tasers anymore honestly? Ugh, seeing people die unnecessarily makes me sad especially when it happens so often.

Sir Codin July 8th, 2016 4:35 PM

The most disturbing thing about the Dallas cops being shot is that I just somehow couldn't bring myself to feel sorry for them. Didn't matter if they were good cops or bad cops....all I could think about was that the inevitable just happened and it was the result of too much police corruption and the "good" police barely doing a thing to stop it. Like they've kind of brought it on themselves. It scares me to have myself react in such a way.

There's a song made by a band I listen to called Machine Head. They wrote a song that alludes to the LA Riots of '92, but somehow I feel like it was a timeless song because it fits even more today than it did back then:

Spoiler:


The largest ever uprising in recent U.S. history.
[?]
Police stand by as looters take what the want.
Police fatality is on the rise [?]
The national gaurd has been employed to establish control throughout L.A. as looting and mayhem continues.
I support an initiative that will put 100,000 police officers on the streets of America.
America has to go through some kind of radical change.
[?] A caucasian white man.
[?] Our own nation where we can promote white culture, white ideals, white attitudes and now we're gonna take it.
What I wanna see is the destruction of the whole white race.
You got scum, you got white scum, you also got spanish scum too...but...most of all, you got...nigger scum.
Then why do you have to go after then or what do they have to go after you? Because we're different gangs we don't like each other. [?]. How they gonna but the gun away if our brother got shot you know?
America has to go through some kind of radical change.
Why...REAL EYES, REALIZE, REAL EYES
[?] some black people being robbed, not every black steals.
[?] Doesn't matter spic, black, white or anything
Theres a new uprising in police brutality [?].
[?]
You gotta know yourself, and you gotta know the image.
[?]
America has to go through some kind of radical change.


"America has to go through some kind of radical change."

Sydian July 8th, 2016 6:15 PM

It's really disgusting. Time and time again, things like this happen and I think to myself, when is anyone in this country going to do something about this? And time and time again, nothing is done. Nothing gets changed. Rinse and repeat.

I don't feel safe in this country. I haven't for years, for myself or others.

Kanzler July 8th, 2016 6:26 PM

Apparently the sniper was a Black Army Reserve Veteran who hated white people and is reported as wanting to kill white people, especially white officers.

I feel as if there's going to be a race war coming down soon if things keep going this way.

ShinyUmbreon189 July 9th, 2016 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colours (Post 9312135)
And of course some ass had to make headlines for himself by claiming that it was the President's fault (and threatening the guy, on top of that), because we can't go one shooting without some idiot turning it into a political stunt.

People like this make me absolutely sick.

The world would be a better place without the media shoving biased crap down our throats, actually it would be better if the media just vanished and people started figuring shit out on their own. The media has a lot to do with why things are the way they are, they're a complete joke yet people blindly follow their crap.
Speaking politically. I don't know if it's just me, but with the way things have been going the last year this next election scares the living shit out of me, not that the last year hasn't already. this country is officially doomed.
We're at the end of our ropes it seems, there's no turning back. We cannot be saved. The human race will never see eye to eye, we will never get along with eachother. As I said in another thread, it's just going to get worse. This is nothing yet.

Aliencommander1245 July 10th, 2016 7:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 (Post 9313776)
We're at the end of our ropes it seems, there's no turning back. We cannot be saved. The human race will never see eye to eye, we will never get along with eachother. As I said in another thread, it's just going to get worse. This is nothing yet.

Sheesh that's some pretty ominous pessimism there, but I severely doubt that idea that humanity intrinsically can't work together for some reason and that this is a turning point vs the eras of slavery and colonialism preceding this more or less relatively good time to be alive

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanzler (Post 9312886)
I feel as if there's going to be a race war coming down soon if things keep going this way.

"Race war" is a pretty strong way to put it, but I don't think there'll be any more escalation than Ferguson, just protest and lobby for change (Which is already partially working)

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarcharOdin (Post 9312721)
The most disturbing thing about the Dallas cops being shot is that I just somehow couldn't bring myself to feel sorry for them. Didn't matter if they were good cops or bad cops....all I could think about was that the inevitable just happened and it was the result of too much police corruption and the "good" police barely doing a thing to stop it. Like they've kind of brought it on themselves. It scares me to have myself react in such a way.

I feel like it should be scary to justify/accept loss of human life as an inevitable conclusion of systematic corruption, because it's very easy to use that to justify/accept the killings of the people themselves for the same reason?

Weren't those police parading alongside too, not just around? I feel like that's as "good" as you can assume a police officer being from this small amount of information

Guest123_x1 July 10th, 2016 4:37 PM

I am so sick of this race war that has been brewing since Trayvon Martin was killed several years back. With all this stuff that's been happening, especially with the Black Lives Matter movement, I just know the outcome won't be good. I know, it's probably considered "racist" of me by saying this stuff, but I'm not going to submit to the politically correct demands of communists and the New World Order cabal.

What do these protesters think they're going to accomplish by these riots and stuff? If the goal of rioting and violence is to bring about racial harmony, why did Detroit go into such a decline following the 1967 blind pig riot (which my mom and her parents lived through, BTW)?
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 (Post 9313776)
The world would be a better place without the media shoving biased crap down our throats, actually it would be better if the media just vanished and people started figuring **** out on their own. The media has a lot to do with why things are the way they are, they're a complete joke yet people blindly follow their crap.
Speaking politically. I don't know if it's just me, but with the way things have been going the last year this next election scares the living **** out of me, not that the last year hasn't already. this country is officially doomed.
We're at the end of our ropes it seems, there's no turning back. We cannot be saved. The human race will never see eye to eye, we will never get along with each other. As I said in another thread, it's just going to get worse. This is nothing yet.

The fact that every time these acts of violence and terrorism occur in our country, Obama and HiLIEry surge in the polls sickens me. Obama hasn't brought about racial harmony and neither will HiLIEry. I'm also sickened by our one-sided media always going in favor of these protesters (it's bad enough that they're always kissing Wall Street oil speculators' butts when they report on the economy and commodities).

At this point, since it looks like it's a virtual lock that Hillary will be our next president, I would rather live under a reincarnated FDR, Truman, or LBJ than her for a single day. Even Jimmy Carter, as bad as he was in his single term (with the overthrow of the Iranian shah and the hostage crisis), would've been better than Mrs. Clinton.

If I had the money, I would have packed my bags and emigrated this country years ago.

KingMarz July 10th, 2016 5:37 PM

Amerikkka has never been safe for us black people especially black men slavery, willie lynch, and the jail system have made sure of that. What confuses me about the racism is that we never did anything to white people always stayed to ourselves and lived in peace but for some reason they bring their asses to our land kill rape and mame us then drag us across the ocean to this god forsaken land and force us to work for them doing their work then we get "freed" but still down trodden with fake rights that mean nothing cuz were still separated by color still being killed and mamed until the civil rights act was passed to basically protect us from said atrocities just to be secretly hated by the now formed KKK. All that stuff affected our development as a people so we build black wall street which was burned down by the clan then formed the Black Panter Party to rival the Klan but still slavery (house and field n!&&@s) and willie lynch made sure there was in-fighting and a separation that only we could determine between light and dark skin which is stupid af all the while still being hated by whites just for being of darker color. Just a little history lesson for those that dont understand the plight of being black in america.

BlackLivesMatter aint sh- but propaganda to make money its not a true movement for black liberation.

I agree obama hasnt said sh- about the racial problems in the country but he can speak on afganistan smh if the black president puppet wont even address it then how can we even expect the country to understand it.

The sniper was someone hired to die for that false flag operation just to fan the fires of hate even more.

Esper July 11th, 2016 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyUmbreon189 (Post 9313776)
The world would be a better place without the media shoving biased crap down our throats, actually it would be better if the media just vanished and people started figuring **** out on their own. The media has a lot to do with why things are the way they are, they're a complete joke yet people blindly follow their crap.

No, we need to have media, just different media. Without an actual media the only things people would know about were things happening in public. Everything else would be hearsay. You wouldn't have uncovered the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic church, for instance. Professional journalists need to exist otherwise the only news that would exist would look like a facebook page: mostly non-news, clickbait, and what news there is is mostly unverifiable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter Mii-kun (Post 9315326)
I am so sick of this race war that has been brewing since Trayvon Martin was killed several years back. With all this stuff that's been happening, especially with the Black Lives Matter movement, I just know the outcome won't be good. I know, it's probably considered "racist" of me by saying this stuff, but I'm not going to submit to the politically correct demands of communists and the New World Order cabal.

What do these protesters think they're going to accomplish by these riots and stuff? If the goal of rioting and violence is to bring about racial harmony, why did Detroit go into such a decline following the 1967 blind pig riot (which my mom and her parents lived through, BTW)?

What are the "politically correct demands" you're talking about?

Why do you say that protestors are causing riots? The discussion about the place of violence in political movements (which is a whole topic in itself) aside, if you look at the BLM info online [like here] you don't see talk of violence. You see things like "We are committed to embodying and practicing justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another." So the movement is striving for peace, not violence. I mean, yes, nothing is perfect and every group large enough is going to have bad eggs, but unless one believes that the movement is intentionally sending out a peace message to attract people who want people and then somehow turning them violent one has to see that they aren't trying to use violence.

ShinyUmbreon189 July 12th, 2016 8:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esper (Post 9316282)
No, we need to have media, just different media. Without an actual media the only things people would know about were things happening in public. Everything else would be hearsay. You wouldn't have uncovered the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic church, for instance. Professional journalists need to exist otherwise the only news that would exist would look like a facebook page: mostly non-news, clickbait, and what news there is is mostly unverifiable.

Yes we do need a media change rather than this "controlling opinions media" that people seem to be getting sucked into. It's ludicrous that people actually believe this shit. Personally, I take almost everything the media has to say with a grain of salt, who's right and who's wrong? There's so many holes that literally everything can easily be nullified, you can't believe a word they say. I'm sorry that my intellect is of higher power that I'm not easily taken as bait. Every day the truth get's further and further away us, yet we stay oblivious to it. It boggles my mind, it really does.




What are the "politically correct demands" you're talking about?

Are you seriously that oblivious? What good do you see coming out of this next election? I'd really love to see your theory. My theory, is we're already fucked, period, no president can save us, it's tyranny in the end anyways, America is next in line for the fallen empire list. So.... Pick your poison.

Her July 12th, 2016 8:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esper (Post 9316282)
What are the "politically correct demands" you're talking about?

The most base level of respect, mostly.

«Chuckles» July 12th, 2016 8:59 PM

Alrighty let's add my 10 cents onto this issue.

Quote:

She said he let the police officer know he had a gun in the car as he was reaching for his driver’s license, and the officer shot him four or five times “for no reason.”
You're an idiot if you do this ever. When stopped by a police officer and they know you have a gun it would be extremely wise regardless of race not to reach for your pockets. I think at that point you definitely putting yourself in a position for things to go bad. Let it be known the officer that did this was Asian. God forbid I put holes in your narrative. Now the other fatal shooting. That in my opinion was a straight up execution. However those police officers shot a convicted child rapist, who was pointing an illegal gun at people. That execution was completely warranted, a police officer has a family, they have a partner, they have children, they bleed the same blood we do. A police officer is human. They are not here to serve at our disposable. They have a sense of self preservation as every sane human should. Now did they act in accordance to self presevation. Of course they did, this man had a gun, this man could have easily taken the life of these officers if they had not acted accordingly. The problem is a complete lack of respect for authority.

Alright now that that is cleared up onto the consequences of these shootings. Black Lives Matter, oh my America's favorite terrorist organization. They are terrorists. Yes they're manifesto and ideals might preach peace however this is saying one thing and many supporters/members/adherents have acted quite the opposite. We saw it last year, and we're seeing it now.

http://i.imgur.com/Zyu9Hbj.png

Now that's terrorism right? Look it up, I'm sure google will give you that answer. Now where does this tie into Black Lives Matter you might wonder. Well what have we seen lately. We've seen an off duty officer shoot and kill a home intruder over an argument they had on facebook about Black lives Matter. We saw the systematic murder of police officers, this championed by those who believe in the Black Lives Matter movement. 21 officers were injured after protesters brought I-94 to a screeching halt for more than five hours Saturday night.. There are problems but it isn't with the police. It's with a lack of respect and a culture that jumps on the bandwagon as soon as a life that has been taken gets national attention. There are facts there are statistics. They don't help the case of Black Lives Matter.

https://scontent.fbne1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13620931_1101469306600182_3622037682167744360_n.jpg?oh=790e3a8ecd4f220962ea3e3806c33032&oe=582E9AFB

This breakdown, how can you account for the senseless violence that is occuring right now on behalf of the Black Community/Black Lives Matter Movement. It makes no sense why a minority statistic, alright not majority of the statistic would riot and lash out. Why do I believe they do? Because we treat the community like a spoilt child. I fail to see why anyone can support a terrorist organization like this. We must learn to respect authority. You can even argue that Blacks are killed disproportionately to their population size. But Blacks disproportionately commit more crime than any other racial group. Of course they are going to be shot more often when they commit more crime than everyone else. This is not racism, this is fact...

https://scontent.fbne1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13590419_503774319808568_1901140679421745087_n.jpg?oh=2b5877217029fefe81d2d0a312dbab6e&oe=58289D3C

"Oh but the statistics are racist and they're cherrypicked oh my god the racists the nazi's they're all nazi's!" Well my source is the Burea of Justice Statistics. Look them up buddy I'm sure you'll cum.

Alright so the disparity in police violence is likely a problem linked to crime, not to race. Black Lives Matter are a Terrorist Organization. Just because they say they're peaceful doesn't substantiate it. Instead through actions they have proven that they are akin to a spoilt child, who will not take responsibilty for it's actions and in doing so only degrades the respect society can hold for it. Alright Russia put Black Lives Matter on their own Terror List. Everyone else should too instead of supporting a liberal agenda that automatically assumes that anyone born into poverty or a racial group entitles them to a void of moral and ethical responsibilites where consequences are non-existant.

Esper July 13th, 2016 8:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by «Chuckles» (Post 9318501)
Alrighty let's add my 10 cents onto this issue.

  • The officer being Asian doesn't put "a hole in the narrative" since the narrative is that there is, paraphrasing, lots of racism in the police force (and society in general) against black people.
  • I take issue with the simplistic definition of terrorism you've provided. Dictionary definitions for complex ideas like terrorism aren't sufficient. That should not be the only metric in deciding what is and is not terrorism.
  • But, by the definition of terrorism you've provided and the examples you've given, it sounds as though any protester would be a terrorist if just a single other protester in the same movement acted in a violent way.
  • (And by the way, the shooter in Dallas was highly critical of Black Lives Matters - hardly a member himself.)
  • So by that line of thinking one could say that all police are terrorists because some of them use "unauthorized" violence. Yes, they have the authority to use violence, but it is not a blanket authority that allows violence in any situation.
  • "Because we treat the community like a spoilt child." The not-so-subtle subtext here is that you think black people are like children. Or possibly that you think they, as a homogeneous group, only act in response to how white/non-black people treat them and don't act on their own for their own reasons, or have a variety of reasons and motivations.
  • Authority should be respected if its actions can be shown to be for the good of the public/community/etc. Otherwise we're talking about authoritarianism.
  • You're assuming that the higher rates of arrests of black people compared to white people is because they are committing more crimes as a percentage of their racial group. There is another possibility which you have not properly addressed which is that the statistics are for arrests rather than actual criminal acts committed. Lots of crimes go unsolved, unpunished, unnoticed. Did you consider that black people were being arrested disproportionately? Meaning, in other words, that whites and blacks could be committing about the same rate of crimes but that because the police are targeting black people more often (with racial profiling, for instance) they catch more crimes committed by black people.
  • You're using Russia as an example of good governance?

«Chuckles» July 13th, 2016 6:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esper (Post 9319018)
[*] The officer being Asian doesn't put "a hole in the narrative" since the narrative is that there is, paraphrasing, lots of racism in the police force (and society in general) against black people.

Fair enough. But you can't blame the white devils for that one love. Also nice accusation or are you gonna support it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esper (Post 9319018)
[*]I take issue with the simplistic definition of terrorism you've provided. Dictionary definitions for complex ideas like terrorism aren't sufficient. That should not be the only metric in deciding what is and is not terrorism.[*]But, by the definition of terrorism you've provided and the examples you've given, it sounds as though any protester would be a terrorist if just a single other protester in the same movement acted in a violent way.

Alrighty babe. Let's have a look around for some more definitions of terrorism!

So straight up let's have a look at wikipedia because that serves to give us a basic skeleton and outline. Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is defined as the use or threatened use of violence (terror) in order to achieve a political, religious, or ideological aim. It is classified as fourth-generation warfare and as a violent crime. In modern times, terrorism is considered a major threat to society and therefore illegal under anti-terrorism laws in most jurisdictions. It is also considered a war crime under the laws of war when used to target non-combatants, such as civilians, neutral military personnel, or enemy prisoners of war.[1]

Alright so now you're going to call it up on it being a broad sense. Doing that is simply arbitrary. Why because it's still the definition. You do not get to exclude people from this definition just because you believe in them. Also you're going to call it up on textbook definitions. This is not a subjective issue. Emotion is not a valid platform to make any kind of argument. So I'll go above and beyond just for you.

The Law. oh baby. Now as per 18 U.S. Code section 2331 - Definitions. Now part 5 of this section defines Domestic Terrorism as...



Now that is law. Those involved in these protests satisfy the conditions to be charged as a domestic terrorist. It's plain as day. Don't play favorites because bias just destroys all credibility.

t. Barrister

The western law system works with these things called Precedents and you've gotta uphold them. Okay. So when we call ISIS a terror group, because they use violence and intimidation to further their political aims we can't just go aww maybe not for black lives matter because even though they do satisfy the conditions I kinda believe in them so nah they're sweet to continue using violence. It's a double standard. Principles and integrity need to be maintained, because yes you might not like it at all! But if someone much worse was to be in power they could use your own arguments against you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esper (Post 9319018)
So by that line of thinking one could say that all police are terrorists because some of them use "unauthorized" violence. Yes, they have the authority to use violence, but it is not a blanket authority that allows violence in any situation.

Um okay, you know I did provide context to the situation but alrighty man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esper (Post 9319018)
"Because we treat the community like a spoilt child." The not-so-subtle subtext here is that you think black people are like children. Or possibly that you think they, as a homogeneous group, only act in response to how white/non-black people treat them and don't act on their own for their own reasons, or have a variety of reasons and motivations.

I'm loving these allegations. Ad-Hominem and speculation. I'll place it all simply. Black and White I know you love the subjective frame of argument but we're big kids. I think that in the past the coloured communities have been subjected to hardship, oppression and stigmatized and treated criminally. However that doesn't happen anymore. The Afrocentric communities of America have found an equal foothold in society. They have the same rights. They should instead of being treated like children for example: Reperations and affirmative action society should treat them just like everyone else. Equality is not Equity do not delude yourself to think that. Society needs to treat every community the same. No special treatment, no unfair treatment because if we respect them like we say then they should be treated like an equal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esper (Post 9319018)
You're assuming that the higher rates of arrests of black people compared to white people is because they are committing more crimes as a percentage of their racial group. There is another possibility which you have not properly addressed which is that the statistics are for arrests rather than actual criminal acts committed. Lots of crimes go unsolved, unpunished, unnoticed. Did you consider that black people were being arrested disproportionately? Meaning, in other words, that whites and blacks could be committing about the same rate of crimes but that because the police are targeting black people more often (with racial profiling, for instance) they catch more crimes committed by black people.

Oh my god. I am a bit surprised at this one. Tinfoil. I'll argue this one but next time have some sources to back that allegation up. For the record no I'm not crazy I wouldn't ever consider that to be the case but let's see what your case says.

So. You're alleging that White people and Black people commit the same about of crime but that because the police are targeting baclk people more often they catch more crimes commited by black people. Okie dokie. Time for some maths. So let's use the number 1000. Now of America, afro-americans make up 12.6 % of the population

So let's just convert all the ethnic groups into a number from 1000.

724 Whites
126 Blacks
48 Asians
9 Indiginous
2 Hawaiins
and 91 others


So let's say Whites commit 10 crimes a year
And your theory suggests that blacks perform the same so for them they commit 10 as well.

10 is about 1.3812% of the white population.
10 is about 7.9365% of the black population.

So by your theory you're saying that they commit the same amount of crimes based on nothing but that they are the same. But what I've also found is that you're saying a higher percentage of the Black community is commiting crime. Which leads me to assume that you're saying blacks commit more crime than whites do regardless. If they're population size was the same blacks would be committing more crimes? Because if we follow you're theory that's what it says... (Don't worry bro, just using yourself against you ;) it's a lot of fun)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esper (Post 9319018)
You're using Russia as an example of good governance?

Yes, yes I am, strawman. Because not every decision that government makes is a horrible one. It's an ignorant accusation to say otherwise.


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