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-   -   Daily Make-a-Mega 6: Vote for stat changes for Mega Arcanine NOW! (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=378675)

gimmepie September 19th, 2016 2:48 PM

Make-a-Mega 6: Vote for stat changes for Mega Arcanine NOW!
 
Make-a-Mega

We all know that there’s a lot of Pokemon that just plain suck competitively. However, the introduction of mega-evolution as a mechanic allowed many Pokemon that would otherwise be very weak to suddenly become very usable. In the case of some Pokemon (ie. Lucario or Mawile), their mega-evolutions give them such a boost that they jump from lower tiers into Ubers.

So, for the Daily series Make-a-Mega, we’re going to take a Pokemon that is ordinarily quite weak and create a mega-evolution that will render it usable in a higher tier. In the last Make-a-Mega we turned Castform from a really gimmicky and useless Pokemon to a Pokemon that's equally gimmicky but can actually do some damage. Now it's time to again submit ideas for a Pokemon to create a Mega Evolution for. Once we have our chosen Pokemon, we'll develop its type, ability and stats here whilst over in A&D a design to match our changes is created.

Week-by-week breakdown

Week One: Pokemon is determined
Week Two: A&D work begins, type change (if any) is determined.
Week Three: Ability change (if any) is determined.
Week Four: Stat changes are determined. Featured design is selected.

Each week (excluding the artwork) is broken down into three days where ideas are suggested and then a four day poll to determine which idea we apply. The article is then written and published as the next polling process begins.

Guidelines
  1. The chosen Pokemon must be fully-evolved or have no evolutions.
  2. It should not already possess a mega-evolution.
  3. It must be from a tier below OU.

Previous Selections
  1. Roserade
  2. Luxray
  3. Lapras
  4. Weezing
  5. Castform



Ullion September 19th, 2016 3:07 PM

I'd like to suggest Masquerain!

I think it's kind of a forgotten Pokemon, but it could get a more unique typing (cough bug/water) instead of keeping that boring bug/flying combo. Plus I like it's current design - so I'm sure it could look really good if it had a mega as well. :)

Syndrome September 19th, 2016 6:38 PM

Mmmmkay so I feel like Arcanine is way past due for this. It's an "okay" Pokemon that has potential to be great if given a mega evo. There are so many possibilities for it design wise and functionality wise, I'm still shocked that it hasn't been picked yet.

Megan September 19th, 2016 7:27 PM

Raichu. With Pikachu always getting more love and Raichu still being better than it, combined with the fact that we need more good Electric types, I feel like it would be a good candidate for a Mega.

gimmepie September 19th, 2016 7:33 PM

I vote Carnivine.
Random flash of inspiration here lol.

5qwerty September 19th, 2016 8:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimmepie (Post 9417436)
I vote Carnivine.
Random flash of inspiration here lol.

pls pls pls pls pls I always feel like the only person who remembers this exists


Kecleon?

Sonata September 20th, 2016 1:13 AM

I'd like octillery to get a mega

Aurora September 20th, 2016 3:43 AM

Omastar!

Kostas September 20th, 2016 4:46 AM

I think of Toxicroak.

Sirfetch’d September 20th, 2016 7:42 AM

Ledian

Lycanthropy September 20th, 2016 9:18 AM

I hope this isn't too far-fetched, but how about Farfetch'd?

Earth Traveler September 20th, 2016 9:56 AM

Muk and Butterfree.

Weezing and Beedrill have megas, dangit.

gimmepie September 23rd, 2016 2:25 PM

The poll is up!

Mobile Tsk September 23rd, 2016 3:50 PM

Ledian would be so cool. The others are all at least remotely viable in some kind of way. Ledian is horrid which sucks because it's so horribly cool. Giving it a better typing and better stats would be excellent.

Syndrome September 25th, 2016 4:18 PM

Ok boys let's get this Arcanine train rollin'.

gimmepie September 25th, 2016 4:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndrome (Post 9425801)
Ok boys let's get this Arcanine train rollin'.

Yes, maybe sixth time's a charm lol.

Syndrome September 25th, 2016 4:53 PM

It better be.

gimmepie September 27th, 2016 5:13 PM

There was a tie so I flipped a coin. Syndrome will be pleased because Arcanine won. So, are we having any type changes?

Syndrome September 27th, 2016 7:25 PM

LIT.

Right, so I suggest that we keep it pure Fire. I can't really think of any other type combinations right now, but I would not be opposed to voting for something else if it makes sense.

Earth Traveler September 27th, 2016 7:34 PM

I would suggest Fire / Fighting.

Reasoning:
- Stealth Rock neutrality
- STAB on Close Combat
- Quad resists U-turn
- Now resists Knock Off
- Crunch and Wild Charge can cover the new weaknesses

5qwerty September 27th, 2016 7:35 PM

I hope this thread doesn't turn into the Get-Together change a Pokémon thread.

I'd stay with pure Fire. Electric/Fire would be fine as well.

Ullion September 27th, 2016 8:59 PM

Since Arcanine is described as "The Legendary Pokemon", we could always change it to fire/dragon? I like the idea fire/fighting as well, though!

tzujm33 September 28th, 2016 2:45 AM

I would like to have its sr weakness gone. It doesnt have a steel move and i dotn like fire/ground, so i also support fire figthting.

gimmepie September 28th, 2016 2:56 AM

I think I'm more pure Fire camp here but I'd be okay with Fire/Fighting.

Ewery1 September 28th, 2016 7:50 PM

I mean conceptually Fire/Dragon makes sense but I kinda like Fire/Fighting, it would also be unique.

Cay September 29th, 2016 9:06 AM

i'd be interested to see a fire/fighting, but i don't see anything wrong with pure fire. either sounds cool to me

gimmepie October 1st, 2016 9:13 PM

Type poll is up!

Ullion October 2nd, 2016 10:55 AM

Voted for fire/fighting. I liked the reasoning brought up earlier. Additionally, I agree with Volpe that tacking on dragon-types to older pokemon has been all too common recently.

gimmepie October 4th, 2016 9:12 PM

Looks like we might be having a tie on our hands!

Syndrome October 5th, 2016 11:05 AM

I really feel like adding another type just adds more unneeded weaknesses and nullifies some useful resistances. There's really not anything wrong with pure Fire imo.

Cay October 5th, 2016 11:29 AM

i voted pure fire. in my opinion, tacking another type on is kind of unnecessary. i agree with syn saying that itd just add a bunch of random weaknesses that we dont really need.

5qwerty October 5th, 2016 11:43 AM

pls don't let fire/fighting win

someone save the world

i was wrong, why did i suggest fire/electric forgive me

gimmepie October 6th, 2016 2:01 AM

Fire/fighting has won but it was very close xD
Time to talk abilities!

tzujm33 October 6th, 2016 4:11 AM

I think thsoe abilities (aside from the current ones) could fit:
Reckless
Adaptability
Fur coat
Flamebody
Moxie
Tough Claws
Sheer Force
Speed Boost

I like Moxie the most.

shubham2207 October 6th, 2016 5:44 AM

I ll go for 2 abilities because the design will matter in this case, offensive or bulky.

If the design is offensive then SHEER FORCE
If the design is defensive then INTIMIDATE

Earth Traveler October 6th, 2016 6:52 AM

Seconding Tough Claws since all of Arcanine's good moves make contact.

5qwerty October 6th, 2016 12:21 PM

Can't we just steal all the idea's from August Get-Together's improve-a-Pokémon thread, if it's still available?

give it water absorb

Ullion October 6th, 2016 2:27 PM

I like Sheer Force and Moxie from those listed above :)

Syndrome October 6th, 2016 5:35 PM

First off, some thoughts:

[20:23:52] @Syndrome: there's no reason to run crunch on it
[20:24:22] @Syndrome: flare blitz and wild charge take out every relevant psychic type and [email protected] doesnt want to keep switching into flare blitz
[20:24:43] @Syndrome: its like a 3HKO on defensive latias with jolly after rocks

In my opinion, that typing is rather unfortunate, and a bit overused. Had it been pure Fire I'd have suggested Magic Guard. It would've gotten rid of the Stealth Rock weakness and the recoil from Flare Blitz and Wild Charge. Actually, no. I'm still going to suggest Magic Guard. It works too well. It can even play off of the species being the 'Legendary' Pokémon.

I'd also like to suggest Contrary. We could go for a specially based stat build and have it abuse Overheat. You know, kinda like how Serperior does with Leaf Storm. It's special movepool isn't anything to write home about, but something along the lines of Overheat / Flamethrower / Dragon Pulse / Hidden Power [Type] could work pretty well.

If I have anything else I'll make a separate post.

5qwerty October 6th, 2016 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndrome (Post 9438934)
I'd also like to suggest Contrary. We could go for a specially based stat build and have it abuse Overheat. You know, kinda like how Serperior does with Leaf Storm. It's special movepool isn't anything to write home about, but something along the lines of Overheat / Flamethrower / Dragon Pulse / Hidden Power [Type] could work pretty well.

If I have anything else I'll make a separate post.

Doesn't it also get Close Combat? Run some RestTalk crap and you'll be near unstoppable.

gimmepie October 7th, 2016 8:55 PM

I like Contrary, Fur Coat and Moxie.

MrDollSteak October 7th, 2016 9:07 PM

I'd be a big fan of Fur Coat in particular. It's a really interesting ability in my opinion, and hasn't had a time to shine. Plus an extra floofy Arcanine is always welcome.

gimmepie October 9th, 2016 5:32 AM

The new poll is up!

Chemist Wooper October 9th, 2016 10:30 AM

Quagsire.
(Or Clefable)
(Or Togekiss...)

the rest of comments:

NOOOOOO WTF IS WRONG WITH U???!?!?

gimmepie October 10th, 2016 2:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chemist Wooper (Post 9442420)
Quagsire.
(Or Clefable)
(Or Togekiss...)

the rest of comments:

NOOOOOO WTF IS WRONG WITH U???!?!?

We've long since determined Arcanine as our choice and as OU Pokemon Clefable and Quagsire are ineligible anyway xD

If you want to submit ideas for Pokemon to work on, the next MaM starts in a few weeks.

5qwerty October 10th, 2016 5:28 PM

Holy crap, please don't let Fur Coat win. You literally have to decrease Mega-Arcanine's BST from Arcanine to make it balanced.

ShanWow October 10th, 2016 5:36 PM

Heh Touch Claws

gimmepie October 10th, 2016 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5qwerty (Post 9444302)
Holy crap, please don't let Fur Coat win. You literally have to decrease Mega-Arcanine's BST from Arcanine to make it balanced.

I see this post and raise you one M-Slowbro.

Syndrome October 12th, 2016 8:27 PM

This Pokemon is going to end up being worse than normal Arcanine if Fur Coat wins.

I think it'd help if, in the future, participants were required to explain why they want these changes to happen. That way someone couldn't just unload a bunch of random abilities that don't make sense for the build. A limit of how many changes a person could nominate would also help.

Aurora October 12th, 2016 8:34 PM

I feel as if giving it Fur Coat departs from the whole concept of Make-A-Mega - that is, to make a Pokemon viable in OU, not broken. I didn't vote for it.

I voted Contrary because Mega Arcanine has the tools to use it, such as Overheat and Close Combat. It is not completely broken because you can phaze it out and because Fire / Fighting is a sufficiently mediocre defensive typing such that it is not downright impossible to stop. This might end up blowing up in my face if stat changes swing a certain way, but hey. We're not there yet.

MrDollSteak October 13th, 2016 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comme des Garçons (Post 9447067)
This Pokemon is going to end up being worse than normal Arcanine if Fur Coat wins.

I think it'd help if, in the future, participants were required to explain why they want these changes to happen. That way someone couldn't just unload a bunch of random abilities that don't make sense for the build. A limit of how many changes a person could nominate would also help.

While I disagree about Fur Coat making it worse than normal Arcanine (x2 defense is never going to be a bad thing), I do agree that there should be some limit imposed on abilities. Perhaps no more than 5, and only one per person. To me the really strange options on this list are Water Absorb and Magic Guard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora (Post 9447077)
I feel as if giving it Fur Coat departs from the whole concept of Make-A-Mega - that is, to make a Pokemon viable in OU, not broken. I didn't vote for it.

I voted Contrary because Mega Arcanine has the tools to use it, such as Overheat and Close Combat. It is not completely broken because you can phaze it out and because Fire / Fighting is a sufficiently mediocre defensive typing such that it is not downright impossible to stop. This might end up blowing up in my face if stat changes swing a certain way, but hey. We're not there yet.

I think Contrary would be far more broken than Fur Coat. Arcanine would still be able to destroyed by most Water special sweepers, and likely wouldn't be doing obscene damage. It would be a tanky build that could spread Will-o-wisp quite effectively and do heaps of cheap damage.

Now phasing is a bad argument because very little pokemon could afford to a) switch into Mega-Arcanine, b) be able to survive a second turn to successfully cast Roar, Whirlwind or Dragon Tail. Mixnape was so successful as it was able to 2HKO or OHKO most pokemon through Overheat and Close Combat alone. Mega Arcanine would have those moves buffing its stats too. Plus with coverage of Wild Charge and Crunch, not even Water or Psychic pokemon could afford to switch in if it gets a +1 Boost from Close Combat.
Blaziken's Fire Fighting Stab in conjunction with Speed Boost was enough to propel it to ubers. I would argue that Contrary with access to Close Combat and Overheat would actually be far more dangerous. Using two Close Combats (which is very likely) actually gives Arcanine +2 Defense which is the exact same boost as Fur Coat.

gimmepie October 13th, 2016 11:24 PM

Well, contrary wins. So it's time to start talking about stats.
Considering the raw power here, I think it would be reasonable to assume this Mega is going to Ubers, so let's keep that in mind.

5qwerty October 14th, 2016 8:38 AM

Ok, so with this ability, Overheat and Close Combat are pretty much going to be standard on it. The other viable moves that it could run (given the nature of Arcanine) are: Morning Sun, Extremespeed, Crunch, Wild Charge, and for this case, Rest and Sleep Talk. For Special Moves: Dragon Pulse, Hidden Power, and then Hyper Beam and Snarl - the last two are basically unused.

Given this information, let's thinking about the non-Pokémon-specific to this type of Arcanine. Anything immune to Fire that can soak up physical hits could work with Toxic, as long as Arcanine isn't running Rest (even then, Taunt exists). Also note that it can't boost its offensive and defense at the same time.

So we have:
1. Mainly Physical Attacker.
2. Can only boost Special Attack or Defenses (but not both) in one turn.
3. Doesn't boost Attack or Speed.

I mean first of all, Unaware 'mons would stop this. Even if Arcanine is running recovery, Calm Mind Clefable would destroy it. You'd have to run Toxic just to beat Clefable or Quagsire.

Secondly, it's not going to be immediately threatening. Like Serperior, it's non-threatening with 0 boosts. Given the many weaknesses of Fire/Fighting (and the fact that it can't have an item), even if you boost once you're not going to be unstoppable after one SpAtk boost or unkillable with one Def/SpDef boost. The safest way you can come in is after a sack on a 'mon who is slower than you who would get destroyed by Overheat/CC, so Amoonguss or Bisharp, let's say. Suppose you kill it, and then get either a defense boost or +2 SpAtk. Then they go into something that's faster and can hit hard. Scarf Lando (doesn't even have to be scarfed if we lower speed), Specs Keldeo, Talonflame, etc. If you got the defensive boosts, then you won't do damage with your next attack. If you got the SpAtk boost, then you won't be living a hit. The only "problem" I see is that it forces the opponent to sack a Pokémon when you bring it in, but that's the case with a lot of Pokémon.

Also it's not going to boost Attack or Speed. Most of Arcanine's attacks are physical and it's also not very fast. It's not going to be a fast devastating sweeper, but it's more of a bulky sweeper like Mega Slowbro. It's offensive coverage would be low because it's only going to be using Overheat, Dragon Pulse, and probably HP Grass (wow, that's almost the same as Serperior!) It only beats Heatran because of Close Combat, otherwise it would get walled as well. The only way attack is going to get boosted is if Arcanine gets intimidated.

Knowing this, here is what I suggest:
HP: 90 (+0)
Atk: 70 (-40)
Def: 111 (+31)
SpAtk: 165 (+65)
SpDef: 111 (+31)
Speed: 98 (+3)
BST: 645 (+90)

(If BST Growth requirement can be lowered, I would gladly lower)

So I'm really going to take the Arcane part seriously - the high SpAtk really means that Arcanine is now a wizard dog. This spread means that you'll likely be running Overheat, Dragon Pulse, Hidden Power, and either Morning Sun for recovery or Close Combat if you want defenses (most likely Close Combat).

Even if you're at +1 Defenses with no investment (and assuming Rocks are up and you switch into them as normal Arcanine), Timid Scarf Lando has <50% chance to OHKO, Jolly Sharp Beak Talon has a small chance to OHKO, but the situation is different if Talon is Adamant or running Band. Keldeo Hydro still OHKOs even without Rocks, so does Medicham Fake Out + Zen Headbutt, and also Mega Pinsir Return (provided you've Mega Evolved already). Keep in mind that this is all provided that you're at +1 for defenses, which means that you've already used Close Combat on a sack or something slower and weak to it, and that you probably don't have +2 SpAtk.

The important things are:
- Mega Arcanine has poor attack, so running a Physical set with Overheat might be possible, but deals less overall damage (since you have bad attack and your only move to benefit from boosts would be Overheat)
- It's fairly slow and you cannot boost speed.
- Usually you can only get one boost (+1 Defenses or +2 SpAtk) before the opponent switches into something that kills you. If you got +2 SpAtk then you're not living the hit. If you got +1 Defenses then you still might not live the hit, and your damage is lowered.
- You can't fully invest into Attack, Special Attack, Speed, or Defenses.

I think the best option for this Arcanine is to run some max SpAtk and Max HP to let you take on hits better, but it's going to be a lot slower than usual.

Yes someone can make a bunch of counter-arguments because I used one specific set (Timid 252 SpA, 4 SpD, 252 Spe) for calculations, but my point is that you can't boost offense and defense simultaneously. There aren't many things that can wall this set, but there are a lot of things that can revenge kill it.

Also compared to some of the other sweepers, this is nothing. Zard X, Dragonite, and Mega Pinsir can all destroy teams once set up, because they're going to outspeed your entire team. Even a Baton Passed Manaphy or Mega Heracross can do the same. Mega Arcanine can't because it can't boost speed (I mean, I guess Baton Pass + Mega Arcanine is deadly, but just ban BP).

Syndrome October 14th, 2016 11:54 AM

HP: 90 (+0)
Atk: 145 (+35)
Def: 90 (+10)
SpAtk: 145 (+45)
SpDef: 90 (+10)
Speed: 95 (+0)
BST: 655 (+100)

Simple concept here. We give it the offenses it needs to make great use of Contrary. Overheat boosts will allow it power through pretty much anything, and I guess you could run Close Combat if you wanted to. Though, there's less of a reason to do that. Even though I balanced the offenses, there's no way of boosting it's physical attack. Also, I opted not to increase the speed because there's no reason to make it completely broken and have it be able to outrun the entire tier. This build could make it a very good wallbreaker but not quite a sweeper.

gimmepie October 16th, 2016 3:15 AM

HP: 90
Attack: 90 (-20)
Defense: 120 (+40)
Sp. Atk: 140 (+40)
Sp. Def: 120 (+40)
Speed: 95
Total: 655

I think this is a reasonably fair stat setup for a bulky wallbreaker. With Overheat becoming the obvious choice for the primary STAB, 140 Base Special Attack is plenty to allow it to mow through a fair number of Pokemon. Base 90 Atk might seem a bit shoddy, but considering STAB Close Combat off of that is plenty to worry Rock mons or w/e coming in.

Defensively Arcanine should be able to take a few hits this way too, especially after Close Combat boosts and with Morning Sun. However it's not s bulky that nothing can touch it either. It's also much slower than a lot of the Pokemon that threaten it keeping it balanced.

tzujm33 October 16th, 2016 4:26 AM

Hp: 90
Atk:140(+30)
Def:170(+80)
Spa:140(+40)
Sdef:60(-20)
Init:65(-30)

So i wanted to avoid making it uber and thougth that it could work via reducing the sdef (which he cant boost) and init, to make it weak towards any special attackers. I gave it a attack and spa boost but put most of the extra bst into def so it doesnt kill any incomign switches.

gimmepie October 19th, 2016 3:33 AM

Apologies for being late, but the poll is up!

gimmepie October 24th, 2016 3:15 AM

Comme d... Syn's stats win this round. Expect the article soon!

Syndrome October 25th, 2016 12:24 PM

https://skypeblogs.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/muscle_240_anim.gif


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