The PokéCommunity Forums

The PokéCommunity Forums (https://www.pokecommunity.com/index.php)
-   Off-Topic (https://www.pokecommunity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   Then vs. Now Gaming (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=379380)

Juno September 28th, 2016 5:16 PM

Then vs. Now Gaming
 
In what ways do you think gaming has changed over the course of your life (if you've been playing games since you were a kid)?

One thing I've been thinking about is how back in the day, consulting the wiki or finding a walkthrough really wasn't a thing; if you're stuck, you're stuck until you figure it out yourself, basically. And I guess it was more rewarding when I finally do get it, but now, with how easy it is to look everything up I'm often guilty of cutting corners - not necessarily finding a guide to hold my hand through the entire game, but stuff like looking up crafting recipes in survival games. Back then I would just keep trying to come up with the right recipes by myself, and if I fail and lose my items, then that's that, but nowadays I can't stand the thought of losing precious resources and time, so I always Google for lists of recipes. :x

What other ways do you think gaming has changed, either in the way you play games, how you / others perceive video games, or just the industry itself?

gehringgame September 30th, 2016 4:57 AM

This is interesting to think about. It seems like games have changed a LOT since I was a kid (and they have) but I think some of that perception is skewed by me changing as a gamer.

I'll tell you one thing though - games have gotten easier. Holy cow, games used to be hard. Dark Souls is hard, sure, but you can at least get through the game if you're patient and pay attention. I remember back in the SNES days, I had three or four games that I spent my hard-earned money on and then couldn't even play beyond a few levels because they were too abominably hard.

Nah September 30th, 2016 7:46 AM

Online gaming. Internet being a common household thing didn't happen until like 2000. Nowadays practically every game has some sort of online play or feature or thing.

Also, DLC

Yukari September 30th, 2016 8:06 AM

When I had just got into gaming I was able to be able to expect that a game would actually come with all the content for just the price of entry.

machomuu September 30th, 2016 8:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukari (Post 9431223)
When I had just got into gaming I was able to be able to expect that a game would actually come with all the content for just the price of entry.

Be glad you weren't a PC Gamer back then. That was expansion pack hell.

Esper September 30th, 2016 9:32 AM

Seems like the first games I played you could finish in a few hours, that is, do everything there was to do. Now games are full of side quests, mini games, or are just incredibly long to the point where you can't reasonably "complete" them anymore.

KSUlAZ September 30th, 2016 11:31 AM

I agree, the online has been a remarkable turning point. Moreover, now you have several business models, from free-to-play to modular experiences (e.g., Life is strange). Finally, game streaming is getting so popular...I did not expect that (seeing someone else playing?), but it is a matter of fact.

gehringgame September 30th, 2016 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUlAZ (Post 9431432)
Finally, game streaming is getting so popular...I did not expect that (seeing someone else playing?), but it is a matter of fact.

Yeah, the popularity of streaming is not something I would have predicted. When it first started getting big I was thinking "why would I want to watch someone play games when I can just play them myself?" and it does sound like a silly concept when you frame it that way.

Now though, mostly because I have so little time for actual gaming, I kinda get it. I prefer edited content to streamers, but I get it. It's a way for me to "experience" a game when I wouldn't be able to play it otherwise. It's also another natural byproduct of our current hyper-connected society. If someone can be interested in liking your photo of the ramen you had for dinner then they can definitely be interested in watching you play video games.

Ninjorf September 30th, 2016 1:51 PM

Playing Ants on MSN game zone. Those were the days.

PikaNitro September 30th, 2016 3:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTyranrtumAvenger (Post 9431613)
I feel there is a lot more MLG 360 NO SCOPE, Rage quitting and other things like seven year olds screaming and swearing in Online Military shooter Matches nowadays than when the original Battlefield and Quake 3 came out. Just saying.


ZetaZaku September 30th, 2016 10:32 PM

Back when I was young I could meet up with friends and play co-op at one TV/PC, nowadays unless it's fighting games, it's either LAN or Online. Sometimes the console version allows couch co-op but PC doesn't, but I can only think of few cases (not counting Halo/CoD MP). And sometimes some games get a really weird split screen. I remember being hyped to play Lost Planet 2 with my friend at release, but the way the screen was split, 60% of the screen wasn't gameplay. It's probably not a big problem if you have some huge 50 inch screen, but on my old 32 inch TV that's not even FullHD, it was a problem. Here's an image in case someone doesn't know what I'm talking about, since I personally only encountered it twice.

JJ Styles October 1st, 2016 10:11 AM

Incoherent rant ahoy.

Ahh a then and now topic. First of all, I'd like to start my post with a lil funny banter towards a video game genre that I love to kingdom come:

http://i.imgur.com/Bjx77Ra.jpg
courtesy of a minecraft forum post.

Well, this is one thing that I would like to point out. Of course 2010 and before games such as Shadow Warrior 2013, Wolfenstein The New Order, and of course DOOM 2016 came and told the 2010 FPS era that it needed a wakeup call through some VERY VICIOUS WANG Slaps. (Hey, you wanna wash Wang's Wang? Or BJ's Wang? Or how about the Doomguy's Wang?)

Anyway, I've said this in my latest posts regarding how I enjoyed the gaming experience back then and how i enjoy the gaming experience right now. This post will only apply to the immersive aspect of gaming, meaning that the competitive multiplayer experience will be explained in a far later post:

So as a kid, I simply enjoyed video games for what they were: Frantic, Mindlessly wonderful, loads of things that made me smile, explosions, doing manly things, and everything that reminded me of the good ole action movies of the late 80s and early 90s like the ones that started Sylvester Stallone and Arnold Schwarzenegger. Like those 80s-90s action films, the video games i enjoyed were the ones where i simply enjoyed for what they were and what they intended to be.

Fast forward to the now more modern times where people are now a lot more opinionated, more trigger happy (in a bad way), more political, and i hate saying this, being a lot more "political" and more "intellectual", gaming has came from the simple times were we appreciated video games for what they were and what they are to analyzing them as things such as being expressions, art forms, political agendas, yadda yadda, i think what I would like to say, everyone may have heard about it. Some of us have become quite overly expressive and political with video games to the point where we smark it up and even take jabs at the gaming industry or the gaming studious behind the games we play. Some of us are a lot more close minded because there are certain games that may offend us, one way or the other.

Of course, there's things in the more modern video game facets such as cutscenes that simply take too long or take away the degree of control from your character. Okay people, remember to press Z to pay respects.

Simply put, ever since 2010, there are way too many people who try to get into gaming without truly understanding why we fckin enjoyed video games in the first place. They often complain that video games that are purely a form of unapologetic action-packed adrenaline (such as Doom) is nothing more than a mindless and shallow experience that doesn't tell anything other than "SHOOT DEMON".. No. These are the kind of people who do not understand what video games are about and need to grow some fckin genitals or cut them off to prevent spreading of said DNA in future generations, else I'd personally slap them with my own personal BFG. Its long, stiff, full of Argent Energy, and its definitely over 9001.

Oh wait, then there are video games that try too hard to be like movies with the overly linear and scripted bullcrap that pretty much plagued the First Person shooter genre especially the Modern military themed ones (Call of Duty, Battlefield, and the "modern" Medal of Honor series). When i said i love video games that reminded me of the movies that i enjoyed, I DID MEAN that these are games where i can still fcuking play them. Not these on-rails bullcrap that make me want to just play something like Time Crisis or Recon Squad, ya know, ACTUAL ON RAIL SHOOTERS.

Its really hard to find a game in this post 2010 era nowadays where it doesn't start with you simply being infront of an enemy to dispatch off for the first 5 or so seconds. Or a game that simply tells you "HEY A$$CLOWN, WHY DONT CHU SHOOT DA HOOPS!" Too many games want to be like da movies without understanding why video games are fun and are the MAN'S Alternative to god damn movies.

Satoshi Ookami October 2nd, 2016 2:14 AM

Well, the main and definitely the biggest change has been the switch from PC gaming and casual games to PS and niche titles.

When I was in elementary school, I've been an avid PC player, mostly playing sports games, RTSs and shooters. Later, however, I started playing on emulators and that pretty much started my change. Since I started playing more RPGs I realized that is the correct way for me. So, I purchased PSP and that started my complete switch to Sony.

The only thing that remains from my young times are the sports games. I no longer play a new one each year, but I sometimes do pick something since I did stay a sports fan.


And the obvious thing is that gaming is more mainstream, you have infinite amount of information everywhere, you don't need to be lost for hours... guess that is good in a way? :D

SaniOKh October 3rd, 2016 12:48 PM

Oh man... a lot has changed, really :) . I've been gaming since the mid-nineties myself, so... yeah, I did notice a few differences :) . Here comes the second incoherent rant of the thread :P .

Yeah, back then games were harder, but they were harder for a reason: to make up for space limitations. A lot of practices that were commonplace back in the day are considered as archaic now by a lot of people: insta-kills, bottomless pits, even lives. But again, those things were there for a reason: either the game made you start over when you lost, or you completed it in no time. Yeah, imagine buying an expensive NES cart back in the day, only to hear your kid saying he/she beat the game in an hour... I'll tell you, after having played on a Sega Master System for over a decade, high difficulty by means of cheap deaths in old-school games is something I do not miss.

Another big change I'm noticing is how additional content is managed. As machomuu said, expansion packs have existed for a long time on the PC, but here's the difference as far as I'm concerned: maybe I'm lucky and have played only the right games, but... IMHO back then, expansion packs were much more substantial. Take Blizzard's expansion packs for instance: Warcraft II and Starcraft I expansion packs, in addition to introducing new units, effectively doubled the in-game content, and Diablo II's expansion introduced two new characters, an additional act and a major overhaul of the game mechanics, including a slew of new item and enemy types. Now, everything is sold piecemeal, and, granted, every piece of content is rather cheap (most of the time) but put together, they tend to be much more expensive, and much less interesting.

About non-substantial additional content, games back then had it too. But it was all unlockable. You know, sometimes I feel like all unlockable content was moved to DLC, and achievements/trophies were put in games simply to make up for that.

Something that I really don't like about the AAA industry is this mentality it has right now, as Jim Sterling put it, to make all of the money, instead of some of the money. Triple A games now can't afford to fail, or to even have moderate success (was it Tomb Raider that sold three million copies and was still considered a disappointment by its publisher?) . Budgets soar, and so do projected sales, and it is now rather common to hear that a studio put a lot of effort into a game, only for it to sell moderately well, and the studio is now closed because of it. Nowadays, we have game developers that feel like they can't afford to fail, and so they dumb down games, copy successful formulas or make sequel after sequel instead of taking risks and trying new things, hire actors (not even VG voice actors, but Hollywood actors!) to voice characters and cash in on their names, put out insane amounts of DLC and include microtransactions. In the eighties or nineties, thanks to much lower budgets, a major game developer could afford to fail, could afford to take a risk and make an experimental game that sells badly, and recoup the cost of making that game with a next, "safer" game. Honestly, back in the day, there were games, like Beyond Good and Evil, that were commercial failures, but critical successes and cult classics. What game from a major developer in this day and age can fall under that category? I can't think of any, really, because they play as safe as possible.

And don't get me started on the recent, for the lack of a better term, SJW tendencies. Those who gamed since the nineties like I did, did you really care about the protagonist of Metroid, Psychic World, Beyond Good and Evil or many an RPG being female? Did you really think whether the games you played had any deeper meaning? Did you think about Birdo being trans in Super Mario Bros 2? I know I didn't, because those games rocked, they were fun to play, straightforward, uncomplicated, and didn't tell you to read between the lines. And, you know, I don't mind that games that favor feels or political messages over gameplay (sometimes excising the latter entirely) exist, they have an audience, more power to them. But when that crowd starts publicly attacking actual games (as in games where gameplay comes first) as being infantile or archaic or passé, any sort of difficulty in games being representative of "toxic masculinity" and nitpicking pretty much everything in a biased manner (like a certain pundit criticizing GTA 5 because you can kill women in it, never mind that you can also kill men, no, that's cool, that's expected) , and actual serious developers listen and believe conform , that's when I have a problem. That, and complaints about video games being games in the first place: I don't remember who the gaming journalist in question was, but there was a guy on Twitter a few months back, who vehemently defended the notion that, if a video game does not have a political message or a deeper meaning, it is completely and utterly worthless, no matter how fun it is to play, because to that guy, gameplay does not matter. Yeah, according to a member of the gaming press, in a video game, gameplay does not matter. And there was another woman, also a Twitter user who I don't remember, who complained about battles in an RPG she was playing and how they kept her from leisurely enjoying the story, not because the battles were hard, but because they existed in the first place... basically criticizing a video game for being a video game. Brilliant. But I'd rather stop with this subject right here and now.

The last paragraph aside (really, I'm done with that subject) , a game that I think represents quite well the shift in gaming that we underwent in the late-2000s, early-2010s is Sonic Adventure DX of all things. Here's the thing: it was released on PC and GameCube in 2003, was a version of Sonic Adventure with enhanced graphics, an additional missions mode and Metal Sonic as an unlockable character. The unlockable character was entirely optional and not that interesting, but the additional missions mode and the already existing medal collecting system now had an awesome reward: collecting medals and completing missions would open to you the entire library of Sonic games for the Game Gear. I know emulation exists, but still... how awesome is it to have something like that in a game?
Now, it was recently re-released for 7th gen consoles and Steam. First of all, what you get for the base price is simply called Sonic Adventure, despite containing all the graphical enhancements of Sonic Adventure DX, but with DX version's content carved out. How do you get that content? Well, you buy the DX version as DLC. But you only get the secret character and the missions mode. The big reward, the Game Gear library, has been removed altogether, and replaced with... achievements.
To sum up: while porting an existing game to the current systems, the developers went out of their way to carve out a piece of it to sell it as DLC, and to top it all, they removed the unlockable games, probably because some of them can be bought elsewhere, so God forbid you get them for free. They took an already existing game and intentionally made it worse! But don't worry, there are achievements in this game now! Oh goodie >:(!

But it's not all bad, really. I don't think gaming has gone downhill or anything. And here's why:
  • Games can now use more resources and be much bigger, giving you more bang for your buck and rendering the aforementioned practices (game overs etc) obsolete. And, again, while some people prefer their games to be mind-blowingly hard, I'd rather not spend my time getting killed over and over. Besides, those people can no longer worry, because hard games still exist.
  • Games can be cheaper now, especially if you're a PC gamer and/or are a follower of the indie scene. And thank you, Humble Bundle!
  • Ultimately, game creation became a lot easier, thanks to programs like GameMaker Studio, Clickteam Fusion, Godot Engine, Unity and, of course, RPG Maker! And while them becoming popular inevitably leads to more shovelware (hi, Digital Homicide!) , a lot of really good games wouldn't have existed without them, games like Freedom Planet, Undertale, Spelunky, as well as the two recently DMCAed high-quality Nintendo fangames. Anyone with a good idea can make a game! Now marketing it, especially with the abundance of video games in today's world, is another matter entirely...
  • And thank you, Kickstarter! People who have good ideas, or veterans of the scene, such as the former Rare Team or Koji Igarashi, now can produce games that follow their own visions and wishes of the gaming public with decent budgets, instead of conforming to what AAA publishers have to say. Because we have been proven time and time again, that the AAA gaming industry, in addition to being irrational about their sales, is completely out of touch with what the gamers want. And yes, there are risks involved (I'll never back anything Keiji Inafune does ever again) but all in all, it's worth it.

JJ Styles October 3rd, 2016 8:55 PM

As some sort of continuation from my post..

I would like to say that ever since a few years ago, upon reaching my young adult ages at the lovely 20s age, I have become a lot more judging towards a game's writing. While i still consider ultimately that gameplay should still take a priority, I have had times where i did cringe a bit in certain games for some what i like to call blunders..

For example: Borderlands 2. Dear god.. as much as I love this game, this game's heavy reliance on humor that just plainly references things such as gaming and culture, and of course MEMEs is really one of the big blunders for me, aside from the other problems that I may point out with BL2, but I'll reserve those for the time being. Its kinda like this.. there are ways to make humor actually humorous in a video game. Many of the really funny ones are those that are brilliantly delivered by making them rather subtle, and taking a bit of wit and critical thinking to actually get the joke. Borderlands 2's humor for what it is.. its funny at times, but there are moments in the game were I feel that Anthony Burch, the game's writer, was spending too much time in 9GAG.

So yes, I am quite particular with some game's story, especially of its some of these games were Story is the selling point.

Here's the other thing. I really do question the logic behind some people's claims that inclusion of anti-frustration features and quality of life buffs for players are things that "casualizes" video games thus making them easier and less fulfilling to accomplish.. I simply question that. That's like saying that the ability to control multiple units in Starcraft 2 is SO CASSSSZUAL compared to being limited to the 12 Unit block from Starcraft 1. That's like saying that EWWWW MOUSE LOOK in a first person shooter game is so casual compared to just Keys and the fcuking space bar. That's like saying that Aiming down sights in a first person shooter is already casual and "OMG THEY RUINED EVERYTHING"... jesus fckin H christ people.

Again, I'm not calling out anyone in this particular thread. But if you feel that you are called out, feel free to respond. But if one is claiming that anti-frustration or quality of life features in games are bad and ruin the challenge or skill factor of video games, i find those really absurd criticisms in the level of saying that browser tabs are bad.

moon October 4th, 2016 12:39 AM

Cheat codes used to be built-in fun. I rarely hear people talk about cheat codes these days o:

JJ Styles October 4th, 2016 12:52 AM

Recalling on some old memories...

I remember actually having a difficult time playing the hardest difficulty settings in some of the games i enjoyed as a child. It was only during my late teens and my now young adult years where i can easily handle most games' Remotely Fair but challenging difficulty setting (Ultra-Violence esque difficulty).

Now for something related to competitive multiplayer

As a young kid, I couldn't play support roles to save a life. Now, knowing that young kids these days and ever since who can't even play support do exist, I play support when given the opportunity to win, and at times, even as a support, I hard carry my own team because I really play to win, and also play to improve on my gameplay.

Sadly though ever since League, where I main Jungle and play Support and Top lane when given the opportunity, I cannot play carry roles to save a life since most champions in the Jungle, Support, and Top lane pool are not squishy champions who can deal a fair to even high amounts of damage. If ever i play a squishy mid lane or ADC champion, i would do fairly poorly. Kinda weird considering that back in DotA, I was playing ranged carries quite often (Drow Ranger, Troll Warlord, Netherdrake, etc)

For first person competitive shooting such as Counter Strike, Overwatch, and whatever, my feelings are still the same about it... despite these games being team-based, Individual skill will still carry into wins. Maybe its because of this, I still enjoy, heck, I've been enjoying ever since, Competitive Multiplayer First person shooters. Its simply one of those times where you don't have to worry about your team and just murderize the enemy and still win.

TRIFORCE89 October 15th, 2016 1:23 PM

On the topic of online assistance from the original post, back in the day (and now still, I suppose) there were players' guides. And gaming magazines would regularly provide strategies for games. There was also ye olde school yard support network for tips and tricks.

Arsenic October 15th, 2016 6:22 PM

Hah, I remember buying those cheat code books at the school book sale.


But did someone say
http://r72.cooltext.com/rendered/cooltext210480153694537.gif

I mean they've ruined gaming just as much as modern pre-order strategy. What you want to get an item within a reasonable timeframe?? WELL FOR JUST 6 PAYMENTS OF 4.99~

That's a bit of an exaggeration obviously but you get the idea. If you want something within a reasonable amount of time, you pay, for coins or the item itself.

http://dearkidlovemom.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/but-wait-theres-more.jpg

FOR THE FORSEABLE FUTURE YOU CAN BUY BOTH A BOX AND A KEY AND MAYBE GET AN ALMOST VALUABLE ITEM!

This is the next step in microtransactions and has gotten very popular. Lottery loot! Destiny(though this game is free with it) CSGO (the pioneer), Halo 5, PAYDAY 2, etc... Spend money to buy said games container (in some games spend more money for a key) and put your purchase worth to RNG. You are paying real money to hope RNG doesnt screw your butt. Which it normally does. It's very noticable in series like Halo, that have previous entries to show what life was like before you had to hope you might some day get the armor piece you like.

What's even worse is the people who defend these things. "It's not required for the core experience!" so many of them say. In halo's case for a lot of people (me included) earning and customizing my character has been part of the core experience, and now I have to pay cash instead of having a set goal of working to rank "X" to earn my equipment.

DLC I'm more lenient with... But just like everything else it's been getting worse. All I need is this picture to describe it.

http://dingo.care2.com/pictures/petition_images/petition/152/301964-1448139906-wide.jpg


And my last thing is Pre-order devs (a.k.a any dev for Ubisoft). Back when I was young you could confidently pre-order a game and expect a good purchase since the advertisement material represented the game. Now-a-days a certain company loves making high-end advertisements packed with awesome features and claiming this is what you can do in the game just to secure your pre-order. With their profit already made, what need is there to make a good game? None, so they strip it to bare-bones and throw it to the dogs and get to work on their next lie.

Juno October 15th, 2016 10:47 PM

This was definitely before our time, but apparently waay before online guides were a thing and even before those physical book guides, there were actually gaming expert "powerlines" that you could call for a one-on-one consultation if you get stuck on a game. :') I don't know if that was a thing offered outside of Nintendo, but it's just kind of funny to me, imagining what those calls would have been like.


Sektor October 15th, 2016 10:47 PM

February 1986: "Okay guys, we only have until December to be finished and can't afford any huge mistakes like last time! We only have one shot at this, we have better get it right. Debugging will take place from, hopefully, Mid-October to late November. We need to make sure that the art style is consistent for the game and cover art and that there are no glitches or bugs in the code otherwise we're screwed. I've been talking back and forth with Jake in accounting..."

February 2016: "Not done? Fuck it. We'll fix it with DLC."

killer-curry October 16th, 2016 12:18 AM

I really agree to lot of things that people said above, extra contents are getting more payable and simply just of little things, kids trolling in COD online , and huge toxic level had increased over the years.

Welp, I cannot disagree that the game contents in AAA just turn from a mild strong coffee into tasteless but visually appealing coffee, and sometimes the game release just so frequent that the quality had dropped down into a certain level. Like you the same thing every time, where's the exciting part?

I really love some games like Valve Games and other as well, because the content is just juicy and full with exciting things also with better price to value the good gameplay. Even though, they put a real effort and time to make games, the quality control is awesome and impressive.

About online games, I currently playing Counter Strike. Previously I tried Cod 4 back in 2008 till 2010 , those times are kinda ok because the players are not really that bad, till like 2013 I moved to Counter Strike Online to play which still okish, but when I change my game into Counter Strike GO , wow the players are totally different than. I think of. Allegations, vote kicks of people who had good kills, and some other really annoying things that I really do not like. And slowly I step away from CS GO and play back 1.6 , which I bought like a year. The pro players are still there but they are way better than GO players in terms of communication, teamwork, skills.

My conclusion is the games are getting tasteless, players are still ok but sometimes they are just literally screaming people lel.

Mana October 16th, 2016 5:11 AM

I think the one big thing that gaming has lost of this time, due to the double-edged sword that is The Internet, is the mystery behind gaming. There used to be all those rumours, reported in Gaming magazines or on the first gaming forums that would pass round the community by word of mouth.

The wouldn't necessarily be difficult to do, once you know how, but it added a huge sense of excitement.

These days, most surprises are leaked early or hacked out in to the open.

JJ Styles October 16th, 2016 6:10 PM

I figured that i let this out of the way:

I think from a few years ago, lets say around 2005 where i really started to git guud when it comes to being updated with the video gaming related medium, i always had high hopes to some big releases and some upcoming not new titles. But a part of that changed when titles such as Duke Nukem Forever was allowed to be released, and even though its 2016, i still feel that Duke Nukem Forever was such a damgaging thing.

Anyway, I've learned a lot to at least keep expectations at the base level. Overhyping things have always backfired on me to the point that it almost felt psychologically harmful. I was glad that certain games released this year actually ended up being FAR BETTER than what i expected them to be (I've mentioned a certain game released on May 13, 2016 being a shining example of such a surprisingly great game where i had low expectations).

I'm not saying that I should always be cynical about some big new releases coming this year and the next. I've learned to always keep expectations at a base level and look at things with an open mind.

Jinjer October 17th, 2016 4:40 AM

grip all you want about "quality of games these days", but back then when game rags were expensive and before youtube came out you had to guess whether a game is good or not mainly from the packaging


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:40 PM.


Like our Facebook Page Follow us on Twitter © 2002 - 2018 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com.
Pokémon characters and images belong to The Pokémon Company International and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company or The Pokémon Company International. We just love Pokémon.
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2016 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com.
PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User generated content remains the property of its creator.

Acknowledgements
Use of PokéCommunity Assets
vB Optimise by DragonByte Technologies Ltd © 2023.