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-   -   About Litten's final evolution. (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=380704)

Mr. Meme October 18th, 2016 2:33 PM

About Litten's final evolution.
 
I love it. Why? Well, when I saw the datamined "sprite", it immediately reminded me of Garfielf from Fist of the B0rf Star. And Fist of the B0rf Star is a top-tier meme.

Ok, memes aside, I think Litten's final stage looks dope. But then again, I'm the weird guy who likes Emboar, so maybe it's just my weird taste.

Rowlet's looks OK. Although, the face is just bizarre.

Popplio's final stage looks terrible. Sorry, people!

Ducolamia October 18th, 2016 2:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Meme (Post 9455339)
I love it. Why? Well, when I saw the datamined "sprite", it immediately reminded me of Garfielf from Fist of the B0rf Star. And Fist of the B0rf Star is a top-tier meme.

Ok, memes aside, I think Litten's final stage looks dope. But then again, I'm the weird guy who likes Emboar, so maybe it's just my weird taste.

Rowlet's looks OK. Although, the face is just bizarre.

Popplio's final stage looks terrible. Sorry, people!

To be honset, I wasn't sure about Litten3 when I first saw it, but I'm glad the in-game model looks much better than the concept art. I guess you really can't judge a Pokemon by it's image these days.

Rowlet3 is warming up to me too. I'm using it for my Moon version of the game. Can't wait to use it. I guess the face looks a little odd, but the odd-looking goggles really strike me well.

I still love Popplio by the way, but hey, opinions.

MyUglyOne October 18th, 2016 4:02 PM

I hate that ever since gen3 that 4/5 of the fire starters end up becoming fire/fighting types. Why?!?

Mawa October 18th, 2016 4:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyUglyOne (Post 9455403)
I hate that ever since gen3 that 4/5 of the fire starters end up becoming fire/fighting types. Why?!?

The chinese leaks said
Spoiler:
fire/dark
. Hope it is true!! anything except fire/fight please. I am a bit scared now that we know the chinese leaks weren't 100% true, so fire/fight might be a possibility...

I agree with Ducolmania, the sprite look better than the concept art. But Rowlet3 looked better in the concept art, and that make me sad because the image showed what was for me the best starter ever.

I would prefer Litten3 to stay on 4 legs, but the way his back legs look weaker than his front legs makes me hope for a Pokemon that can stand on two legs but will mostly attack on 4 legs...

mew_nani October 18th, 2016 4:16 PM

Well really Emboar isn't bad in itself it's just... well it's the third fire/fighting type starter we've gotten in a row. It could be a biker pig with a chain on it it'd still get some hate for that.

As for Litten's final stage it's not bad design wise it just... reeks of wrestling. If it's the fourth fire/fighting type we've gotten from starters I think there'll be an uproar. If it's fire/dark I could handle but fire/fighting... just... no.

clbgolden October 18th, 2016 4:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mawa (Post 9455407)
The chinese leaks said
Spoiler:
fire/dark
. Hope it is true!! anything except fire/fight please. I am a bit scared now that we know the chinese leaks weren't 100% true, so fire/fight might be a possibility...

I agree with Ducolmania, the sprite look better than the concept art. But Rowlet3 looked better in the concept art, and that make me sad because the image showed what was for me the best starter ever.

I would prefer Litten3 to stay on 4 legs, but the way his back legs look weaker than his front legs makes me hope for a Pokemon that can stand on two legs but will mostly attack on 4 legs...

The Chinese leak never mentioned the typings. The Fire/Dark speculation is coming from the text on the concept art itself, which mentions how Litten3 fights dirty.

AmetsuCAT October 18th, 2016 4:32 PM

I really like Littens final evolution, and I really hope it ends up being Fire/Dark. Rowlets evolution is pretty cool too, the whole archer/Robin hood type design is really interesting. Poppilo...not so much. But that's just my personal preference: I prefer cool over cute.

Mawa October 18th, 2016 4:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clbgolden (Post 9455420)
The Chinese leak never mentioned the typings. The Fire/Dark speculation is coming from the text on the concept art itself, which mentions how Litten3 fights dirty.

Wait... really?? I was so sure I saw this "confirmed" somewhere :o Like, sooooo sure... But hey, it's been too long I won't be able to find where >.<

... I am even more scared right now...

MyUglyOne October 18th, 2016 4:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mawa (Post 9455407)
The chinese leaks said
Spoiler:
fire/dark
. Hope it is true!! anything except fire/fight please. I am a bit scared now that we know the chinese leaks weren't 100% true, so fire/fight might be a possibility...

I agree with Ducolmania, the sprite look better than the concept art. But Rowlet3 looked better in the concept art, and that make me sad because the image showed what was for me the best starter ever.

I would prefer Litten3 to stay on 4 legs, but the way his back legs look weaker than his front legs makes me hope for a Pokemon that can stand on two legs but will mostly attack on 4 legs...

If that's the case then fine, I can live with fire/dark

PageEmp October 18th, 2016 5:10 PM

So I guess I'm the minority here who doesn't like Litten's final evo that much? Well I do like it a bit, but it looks a bit too overly masculine to me, I mean that's not really a bad thing, but I think it looks a bit too much like...well. But it's still okay. It also seems like I'm the only one here who thinks Popplio's final form looks the best amongst the 3...weird.

Mawa October 18th, 2016 7:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colours (Post 9455490)
Can I be honest here for a second? What exactly is so horrible about final evo Litten? Okay, I get the point: It's not on four legs. People would rather have a Raikou-esque looking Litten evo than something bipdel that probably doesn't make much sense. Being truthful, I'm also not the biggest fan of Litten's evo, but I'm also going to say that I most definitely don't think it's the worst one out there. It's certainly far better in design than Emboar, at the very least (although that bar is probably low enough that it probably doesn't matter).


This is my problem with Litten's final evo: it look like Emboar. A little too much for me. But hey, I don't hate it. I just think we already saw this concept before for a starter. Like they re-use fire/fight too often. In conclusion, I think the fire starters are always the one I like less. I can live with Litten's final form, I just won't use it if it's fire/fight. Might use it if it's fire/dark, but not for my main game.

It's still just a game. Don't like the Pokemon, don't take it. Like it? Well, play with it! :)

As for the starters, I always end up taking the grass type so even if I wouldn't like the concept I would still choose it (like Chestnaught, which I end up liking at the end).

Altairis October 18th, 2016 7:34 PM

I don't think that Litten's final evolution looks BAD, I just think that it's really, really uncreative when you put it in a lineup of other Fire-type starter evolutions. They're all bipedal (though Typhlosion is sort of quadrupedal) with the same basic body shape. This is especially a disappointment when you look at the body shapes of the Grass-type starter evolutions and see the difference. Chesnaught is fat and bulky, while Sceptile is skinny and agile. Venusaur and Torterra look similar, granted, but they're mixed in with a taller quadruped, two bipedal Pokemon, and one with no legs whatsoever. Rowlet's evolution also looks quite different. While it is bipedal, also has wings that seem to double as arms. This is different than other starters.

Same with Water-type evolutions. Water is more of a bulky type and thus it is reflected in the designs, though there is still more variation: Greninja is small, while Blastoise and Feraligatr are fat and bulky looking. Empoleon looks fat as well, but it has more shap edges. Popplio's final looks great in this lineup because it adds another variation - a "bipedal" Pokemon that has a tail used for movement as well.

Okay, now look at the Fire-types again. A good half of them look muscular. Two of them already have swirly designs on them. One of them already has basically the same color (red/black) as Litten's. Again, they're bipedal. I'm reminded soooo much of Emboar; a bulky looking Fire-type with huge arms. The basic design is: arms, legs, tail. Now place flames somewhere.

It's just... disappointing. Litten's evolution is a cool Pokemon, but when you look at it in the grand scheme of things, it's just.... lame.

Yes I did just write a whole essay about this!!!

Green Pidgeot October 18th, 2016 7:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colours (Post 9455413)
The fact that Game Freak has never created a quadruped Fire starter probably should've been a sign to people that they probably weren't going to stop the trend now. :x

They stopped with Gyms, so it's possible. Still, youre right that people might have expcted too much there.

Part of the problem might be that they didnt use a third form that different from the other two.

classiccartoonsftw October 19th, 2016 2:05 AM

Personally, I loved Litten3's design upon first sight. It looks super strong and badass, and it amplified my love for the Litten line. Rowlet3 and Popplio3 look pretty good too, but they don't match up to Litten3 IMO.

Yet, people rage against it because it didn't stay on four legs. But that's their problem. I personally love it when quadrupedal Pokemon go bipedal upon evolution. What I do find weird, is when a bipedal Pokemon goes quadrupedal upon evolution. Look at the Oshawott line, which starts off as bipedal, but upon final evolution, it goes quadrupedal.

As for its possible typing, I hope it becomes Fire/Dark, just like most people. Even if it'd be the only Gen 7 Pokemon with the Dark type, it'd be worth it. (I don't count Alola forms of earlier gen Pokemon as Gen 7 Pokemon.) But I wouldn't have a problem with it becoming Fire/Fighting. After all, that typing makes more sense on it than on Delphox and to an extent Emboar.

L'Belle October 19th, 2016 2:36 AM

To be honest, I hated and still hate Litten's whole line. From a design where they could have so much more ideas for a cool fire type starter, they went the emboar route again. I really hate this pokémon

Hands October 19th, 2016 3:39 AM

I really like both fire and grass lines this time round, not keen on water though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by colours (Post 9455413)
The fact that Game Freak has never created a quadruped Fire starter probably should've been a sign to people that they probably weren't going to stop the trend now. :x

Well, Typhlosion is sometimes depicted as running/moving on all fours so there's a silver (hur hur gen 2 ref) lining for fans who want a quadped fire starter I guess!

Rivvon October 19th, 2016 4:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colours (Post 9455413)
The fact that Game Freak has never created a quadruped Fire starter probably should've been a sign to people that they probably weren't going to stop the trend now. :x

Quote:

Originally Posted by colours (Post 9455490)
Can I be honest here for a second? What exactly is so horrible about final evo Litten? Okay, I get the point: It's not on four legs. People would rather have a Raikou-esque looking Litten evo than something bipdel that probably doesn't make much sense. Being truthful, I'm also not the biggest fan of Litten's evo, but I'm also going to say that I most definitely don't think it's the worst one out there. It's certainly far better in design than Emboar, at the very least (although that bar is probably low enough that it probably doesn't matter).


I dunno; with everyone hyped about how gen 7 is supposedly "changing things up for the better" this time around, I can understand why some people thought maybe, just maybe, they would take a different approach with how they design the Fire starter evolutions.

Altairis already hit the nail on the head with this: it's not that this design is absolutely bad (although, I think the swollen hands and the fire-crotch-belt don't do it any favors), but when compared to all the other Fire starter evolutions, it's just more of the same. And it's even moreso similar when compared with Emboar, who is literally another wrestling Fire starter. But instead of being a boar, it's a tiger this time.

They actually managed to make the middle evolution work, which to me is the worst part. It's got a bulky upper body and smacks things hard enough to be considered a punch but still stands on four legs. That's a tough idea to pull off and they managed it. But a design that incorporates some sort of fighting style while standing up? That's very standard, very overdone. Someone who was unaware of the leaks would probably see the middle stage and get excited at the opportunity for a quadruped final design, only to have that snatched from them at the very end.

This is why people were so impressed when Pokkén Tournament included Suicune in its playable roster--it's not easy to make a quadruped design work in an area meant for "traditional" fighting. Even if Litten's evolution had turned out Fire/Fighting, if it had been on all fours, it would at least show the designers were willing to think outside the box enough to try to come up with a design that worked for the Typing/concept they were going for, but have it be different in execution. But Litten's evolution is not different in execution, it's only different in the animal they chose to work it into.

Because of that, even if it turns out to be Fire/Dark, I still won't care for it. At this point, it's not so much about the Typing (although too much of the same in that area also gets boring) as it is about the concepts that make up the final design. We've seen this final design before, but with different animals. That's why I don't like Litten's final evolution.

Altairis October 19th, 2016 6:26 AM

Interesting note; I think colours is fine with the design BECAUSE it's similar to previous ones, while other people are upset because of its similarity. Interesting. At least that's how I interpreted this.

blue October 19th, 2016 8:02 AM

Ok, I'm still at odds as to why they chose to make YET ANOTHER fire starter have their final evolution as bipedal. Not only that, but it looks as if it could be Fire/Fighting too which would kinda suck lmao. I'll admit I am warming to the design, the actual in-game model does it more justice than the washed out sketch we saw a few months back.

MKC October 19th, 2016 8:50 AM

I just really don't get all the hate he is getting, I think people is just looking at it the wrong way, ''all starters are bipedal so this is more of the same'' sure, but until now now all feline pokemon stand on all fours, Litten's evolution line is the first cat line to stand on 2 legs upon evolving, which is something new and unique in that regard, why would people want another generic feline for a starter?
Spoiler:
Plus we get a fire feline on all fours just a gen ago, and Arcanine is half tiger so that's kind of done too


Apart from that not making the tiger pokemon a Wrestler would have been a huge missed opportunity, tigers and wrestling just go together, and to make him stand out they made him a heel wrestler, he is a villainous starter and I love that, he has so much more personality than all previous fighter starters, and if he ends up being Fire/Dark is just going to be plain awesome~

Well I personally love him design, and I honestly can't wait to have him in game! (and get an actual name)

Pinkie-Dawn October 19th, 2016 9:06 AM

I've been predicting a tiger martial artist Pokemon for a long time now, due to how tigers are associated with Asian material arts like dragons, so imagine my excitement when my prediction came true.

Esper October 19th, 2016 9:08 AM

I never really thought Emboar looked much like a wrestler. I guess because it's part Fighting-type it makes it easy to see its design as inspired by a wrestler, but if it is it's more of a wrestler in a sporting sense than Litten3 which is more of a flamboyant pro-wrestler style.

Personally, I don't care for Litten3 because I find the design is too plain. Like, it looks like anyone's anthropomorphized catperson. Nothing about it really says "I'm a Pokemon" the way the other final evolutions do. I would not be surprised in the slightest if someone were to go through years-old artwork on deviantart and find almost the exact design of Litten3. It's just that typical looking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by colours (Post 9455490)
It's certainly far better in design than Emboar, at the very least (although that bar is probably low enough that it probably doesn't matter).

You take that back! Emboar is beautiful!

classiccartoonsftw October 19th, 2016 9:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKC (Post 9456211)
I just really don't get all the hate he is getting, I think people is just looking at it the wrong way, ''all starters are bipedal so this is more of the same'' sure, but until now now all feline pokemon stand on all fours, Litten's evolution line is the first cat line to stand on 2 legs upon evolving, which is something new and unique in that regard, why would people want another generic feline for a starter?
Spoiler:
Plus we get a fire feline on all fours just a gen ago, and Arcanine is half tiger so that's kind of done too


Apart from that not making the tiger pokemon a Wrestler would have been a huge missed opportunity, tigers and wrestling just go together, and to make him stand out they made him a heel wrestler, he is a villainous starter and I love that, he has so much more personality than all previous fighter starters, and if he ends up being Fire/Dark is just going to be plain awesome~

Well I personally love him design, and I honestly can't wait to have him in game! (and get an actual name)

I completely agree with you. Although Entei is also partially feline, and Pyroar disappointed me with its low Attack stat.

blue October 19th, 2016 9:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colours (Post 9456218)
Would you warm up to it more if it was Fire/Dark? :o

Definitely. The design isn't actually too bad, I'm just curious to see the typing and stat distribution at this point. Fire/Dark would be cool though!

Sgt. Heracross October 19th, 2016 9:45 AM

I swear you could not replicate the look of disappointment on my face when I saw Litten's final evo. Personally, I'm going with Rowlet now. And there are a lot more things that came out of the datamining that lead to a lot of disappointment on my end.

I agree that Game Freak was going to make a bipedal evolution anyway because that's what it always has been in the past, but...I love Fire starters, man. And if Sun/Moon is supposed to be this fresh, new experience that we have never seen before, why couldn't they break the tradition and come up with something more original for the Pokemon that's going to be with you from the very start? My poor little kitten turned into this ugly hypermasculine thing, and I could not be more upset about it. And for the record, I don't care about how this design is "genius" because it's based off of Tiger Mask or whatever. I really could not care less.

Ah well, at least we still have Solgaleo, right? That thing looks awesome. I'll still be enjoying Sun/Moon, but...SO. MUCH. DISAPPOINTMENT.

Mr. Meme October 19th, 2016 2:36 PM

Whatever the case, I can't wait to fight the champion's final Pokemon with Beltigre while shouting "I AM BECOME LASAGA" at the top of my lungs.

Hell, I've already created a really dumb story in my head where Silvally and Beltigre are the reincarnations of Odiey and Garfielf, and how they're on a mission to find the reincarnated versions of all the major characters that died during Fist of the B0rf Star. Also, I think that Gladion is the reincarnated form of Calbin.

Nobody gets what I'm saying, do they?

Centipede Chan October 19th, 2016 2:50 PM

I heard about El Tigre being Fire/Dark, which I kinda hope it would be since it would basically be the cat version of the Houndour family. Still going with Robinhoot though. As for Popplio, no. I don't hate it AS much when Popplio first came into sight, but I just was never interested in any water Starters that weren't Totodile or Oshawott.

Caaethil October 19th, 2016 3:03 PM

I'll never understand why people care so much about the typing. Sure, let's say it's Fire/Dark. So what? It's still a fighter. GameFreak have still gone down the horribly overdone design route as in three other generations. The actual typing itself is irrelevant, right?

Does making it Fire/Fighting really ruin it? Well, I suppose a more appropriate question is: does making it Fire/Dark really salvage it?

It looks like a fighter, it fights like a fighter, it'll have a gazillion fighting type moves no matter what. In principle, it's another Fire/Fighting starter, if you get what I mean.

Does this even make sense? I can't tell.

Florges October 19th, 2016 3:05 PM

I don't mind Pokemon being bipedal as long as they are unique. Delphox is my favorite starter because of how unique it is compared to the other fire starters. Litten could have easily been a bulky sabertooth tiger on four legs, but the fact that they made it looks like another Emboar makes it not unique. And this is coming from someone who LOVES Emboar.

When Litten's Japanese name was first leaked, I was so excited about my fire starter being a cat this time around. Then Litten was shown and I was not impressed. I mean, it looked okay, but they could have done something a lot cuter or something. Now it just reminds me of the children I teach, quiet, don't show emotion, and then suddenly like to play dirty. It's not cool.

PageEmp October 19th, 2016 10:29 PM

I don't think he's gonna end up being Fire/Fighting, and I do hope not. Despite being all muscly and having cool arms, he doean't strike me hard enough with a 'fighting' vibe and all in all I think he shouldn't end up being a fighter, especially since we already have 3 of them. He should be Fire/Dark instead.

Unrelated but I think the water starter's final form looks awesome and it's not just my fav final form amongst the gen7 starters but my fav of all the individual species of the gen7 starters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hands (Post 9455929)
I really like both fire and grass lines this time round, not keen on water though.

Take that back. Now.

TheKojo October 19th, 2016 11:11 PM

I am 100% fine with it as long as it's Fire/Dark.

I like Rowlet's evolution too. I don't care for Popplio's that much.

Green Pidgeot October 19th, 2016 11:32 PM

I guess when you say 'cat Pokémon' this kind of final form isn't what they were hoping fr?

PkmnTrainerElio October 20th, 2016 1:21 AM

All three of the starters final evos seem to be the worst out of all the final starter evolutions. Litten3 and Popplio3 are both ugly and just too masculine and feminine... I don't like them, I don't want a wrestler and a mermaid, I was 1ooking forward to a quadrupedal tiger (which strangely we haven't got yet...) and a circus performer/clown/jester (which would have been more fitting for Popplio). Rowlet3 is just as ugly... Their final evos don't even resemble their second evos (and most starters final evos usually their second evos), their second evos looked so promising, except Brionne... Seeing all the fan-art of a bulky tiger, circus performer and a snobbish owl hurts me now. Seeing an archer, wrestler and mermaid put me off, maybe I'll get a few Everstones...

Hikamaru October 20th, 2016 1:36 AM

I personally don't think the design is that bad, but I can understand why Litten's final evolution is copping the heavy disliking. To people who look at Pokemon from a design aspect, the idea used is not original for a starter, since Emboar was also themed around wrestling in a way.

However, there is that leak that mentions Fire/Dark as its possible typing (along with Water/Fairy for Popplio's) and with a bit of research it's a heel wrestler, which are known to use dirty tricks, a trait associated with the Dark-type.

I can get why Rowlet and Popplio's final evolutions are getting the good reception, because an archer and a siren/mermaid concept are new and original, even if the latter has been copping slack for being too "female" for a Pokemon with an 87.5% male ratio. It's still a fresh concept and I love it. Besides, there's always the option to dump the starter in the PC if you don't like it.

For me, Litten's heel wrestler theme doesn't bother me much but I can understand why it's going to make Litten the least chosen Alola starter. The final evolution is to them, what makes Litten a Tepig 2.0.

PkmnTrainerElio October 20th, 2016 2:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hikamaru (Post 9456971)
For me, Litten's heel wrestler theme doesn't bother me much but I can understand why it's going to make Litten the least chosen Alola starter. The final evolution is to them, what makes Litten a Tepig 2.0.

Now that you say this, your 5th Gen connection theory gains even more credibility. I might warm up to Litten3 tho... Popplio3 should have a gender difference though. Male Popplio evolves into a Merman, while female Popplio evolves into a Mermaid...

classiccartoonsftw October 20th, 2016 2:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voldemario (Post 9456984)
Now that you say this, your 5th Gen connection theory gains even more credibility. I might warm up to Litten3 tho... Popplio3 should have a gender difference though. Male Popplio evolves into a Merman, while female Popplio evolves into a Mermaid...

Shouldn't male Popplio3 get a slightly different design from female Popplio3 then?

Green Pidgeot October 20th, 2016 5:02 AM

A heel wrestler would have to be Fire/Fighting. It's stll a wrestler.

Hikamaru October 20th, 2016 6:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voldemario (Post 9456984)
Now that you say this, your 5th Gen connection theory gains even more credibility. I might warm up to Litten3 tho... Popplio3 should have a gender difference though. Male Popplio evolves into a Merman, while female Popplio evolves into a Mermaid...

Yeah, Unova connection theory for the win. I actually predicted Grass would be the most chosen starter for this generation, Fire the least chosen and Water being in the middle, just like the Unova starters when their final evolutions were revealed, and coincidentally both the Unova and Alola starters' final evolutions were leaked before even being revealed officially.

I first brought up the theory when I saw the first starter popularity polls, with Rowlet often leading, Litten in the middle and Popplio in last, which was also the case for Snivy, Tepig and Oshawott respectively when they were first revealed. Litten has pretty much ended up like Tepig in that they both have wrestler-themed final evolutions and the concern of being Fire/Fighting (which ended up being true for Tepig's evolutions) while Popplio turned out to have an awesome final evolution and win the crowd back, like what happened to Oshawott.

I do believe Litten's final evolution won't be Fire/Fighting since the three Fire/Fighting starters all gained the Fighting-type in the middle stage, which didn't happen in Torracat's case. Dark seems more fitting for Litten line's colour scheme and the heel wrestler basis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by classiccartoonsftw (Post 9456988)
Shouldn't male Popplio3 get a slightly different design from female Popplio3 then?

I know the male is the "default" gender difference of some Pokemon, but since we haven't had a starter with gender differences outside of Venusaur, Meganium and the Torchic line, I am doubting it. The Sinnoh, Unova, Kalos and now likely Alola starters all had no gender differences.

Esper October 20th, 2016 8:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Pidgeot (Post 9457114)
A heel wrestler would have to be Fire/Fighting. It's stll a wrestler.

Stunfisk is a fish, but it's not a Water-type. Flygon is (partially) a dragonfly, but it is neither Bug- nor Flying-type. Pokemon don't have to take the most common or first associations that one might think they should.

Green Pidgeot October 20th, 2016 8:44 AM

A wrestler isn't a species. Though that would really change taxonomy. Maybe for the better?

MarinoKadame October 20th, 2016 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esper (Post 9457308)
Stunfisk is a fish, but it's not a Water-type. Flygon is (partially) a dragonfly, but it is neither Bug- nor Flying-type. Pokemon don't have to take the most common or first associations that one might think they should.

Flygon is an Antlion tho.

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/images/antlio1b.jpg

CidHazard October 22nd, 2016 4:47 AM

Based on Toracats entry i'm almost 100% sure that this is going to be a fire/dark type (Hopefully)

My reasoning: As the flavor text says "Torracat has a great love for battle and will attack so relentlessly that its opponents lose the will to fight. and he cat punch that this Pokémon can dish out with its strong forelegs is extremely powerful. It can bend iron bars and knock out large men with a single blow!"

Basing on the pokemon's design and the last part of the discription... The final evo is a Pro wrestler. but it's a Heel wrestler (In wrestling: The bad guy basically) looking at the "Lose the will to fight line". Pro-wrestling is a never ending battle of good and evil (Storyline) and there are two types of pro wrestler psychologies.

Face (The hero) - The one the fan cheers, always fighting honorably, not giving up, and fighting until the very end. Think John Cena or Hulkamania Hulk Hogan. In pokemon this is the fighting type is Machoke and Howlucha. Both Pokemon based on a wrestler the latter being a Luchadore.

Heel (The Villain) - The one the fan's boo. Fighting dirty, using foreign objects, poking enemies in the eye, cheating, low blows, using outside interference. There are many types of heels there are ruthless bad asses Think Brock Lesnar or Cowardly heels who always turns tail and runs think Rick Flair.

Litten's final evo is a play on the Ruthless bad ass heel. Dark type is the Evil type in japanese right? the fire/dark typing would fit a Heel Wrestler Pokemon Pokemon perfectly.

Look at the lower right hand side... The final evo is smashing a pokemon with a foreign object. An Announcers table most likely.

http://pokejungle.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/starter-evolutions-litten.jpg

Princess Sapphire October 22nd, 2016 5:59 AM

Rowlet and Popplio's final forms now make more sense, but Litten's just doesn't. Not to mention it is ugly as hell. It should be on all fours and much more tiger-like, like Torracat is












Personally, I feel like them leaving the Pokémon images in the demo was intentional. I also feel that the reason why that is, is because some of the Pokémon showed, might actually be fake. A few just do not look right. So with that in in mind, that means the whole Pokédex is still not complete, and on top of that, we still do not what "secret" the starters have. That's why I feel Litten's final form might still be fake

clbgolden October 22nd, 2016 7:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Sapphire (Post 9459587)
Personally, I feel like them leaving the Pokémon images in the demo was intentional. I also feel that the reason why that is, is because some of the Pokémon showed, might actually be fake. A few just do not look right. So with that in in mind, that means the whole Pokédex is still not complete, and on top of that, we still do not what "secret" the starters have. That's why I feel Litten's final form might still be fake

No offense dude, but this is really straw grasping. Maybe there's a slim chance that they took out some of the new Pokémon to mess with us so we'd think that there are only a few new 'Mons, but any Pokémon in the data are probably 100% real. I highly doubt GameFreak would have their designers make a bunch of fake 3D models.

CidHazard October 22nd, 2016 7:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Pidgeot (Post 9457114)
A heel wrestler would have to be Fire/Fighting. It's stll a wrestler.

Not necessarily... Dark type is Evil type after all... Also Heels don't tend to fight fair, using foreign objects or having others kick the crap out of face's or using illegal moves: Poking the eyes of the opponent, biting.

Moves like:

Beat up, Fake tears, Faint attack, Foul play,Fling, Payback, Nasty plot, Knock off, Punishment, Sucker punch. Not only sound good for a heel wrestler, but thematically consistent to the psychology of heel wrestling. Just read the descriptions these moves and watch heel wrestlers fight.

Here's a full match with a heel Prince devitt (The guy with the face paint) and his lackeys:


Princess Sapphire October 22nd, 2016 10:21 AM

@ clbgolden


No offense taken, but,


1, I'm a girl, and 2, think about it. Why else would they leave all the images to be found, but not have the names and type data? They still want to throw us off and keep us guessing. I feel they actually learned from last time


True, I didn't play the ORAS demo, and I am not planning on this one either, but that much I can be sure of. They're giving us the images, a glimpse of the other Pokémon, but it's still not everything

clbgolden October 22nd, 2016 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Sapphire (Post 9459812)
@ clbgolden


No offense taken, but,


1, I'm a girl, and 2, think about it. Why else would they leave all the images to be found, but not have the names and type data? They still want to throw us off and keep us guessing. I feel they actually learned from last time


True, I didn't play the ORAS demo, and I am not planning on this one either, but that much I can be sure of. They're giving us the images, a glimpse of the other Pokémon, but it's still not everything

Yes, maybe it's not everything, but I still highly doubt any of the datamine images are fakes made by GameFreak.

Green Pidgeot October 22nd, 2016 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Sapphire (Post 9459587)
Rowlet and Popplio's final forms now make more sense, but Litten's just doesn't. Not to mention it is ugly as hell. It should be on all fours and much more tiger-like, like Torracat

Even if not on all fours, you're right, it's a diffaerent direction than Torracat's design. It's slightly sudden and most probably would accept Torracat but if they like Litten were probbly not hoping for this kind of thing. It's really extravagant a change, but for little reasin.

Princess Sapphire October 22nd, 2016 12:55 PM

Yeah, too different. And the same thing goes for Pikipek's evolutions. You can't go from a woodpecker to a toucan. They're totally different birds


Basically put, as neat as a lot of the Pokémon images from the datamine are, until I see Sugimori art, I will not believe them to be real. And that's how all the datamine info should be seen as

MKC October 22nd, 2016 3:05 PM

I don't see how Torracat is too different to the final evo by any means, pretty much everything on it's description matches it's final evolution, it loves to fight and purposely discourages the opponent to win the fight, if that doesn't point a heel wrestler I don't know what does.
Also it's main attack consists on punching, which to do so stands on 2 legs as depicted by concept art, so I don't see how him evolving to mainly stay on 2 legs doesn't make sense, it makes perfect sense for it to stand up to properly punch it's opponents.

The evolution is not 100% confirmed by any means, but seeing as nothing has disproved the leaks, the fact that they are in the game and that all of the starter evolutions make perfect sense it's highly unlikely for them to not be true, which is perfectly fine by me, I love Litten's final evo to death and whenever he gets confirmed (and hopefully he does!) I'm gonna be beyond happy!

Princess Sapphire October 22nd, 2016 4:12 PM

*this might seem a bit off topic, but it makes a point*

Up until a few months ago, I had a cat. She would always throw punches. In the form of sharp-clawed swipes, sure, but it still counts as a punch

My point? You do not need to be on 2 legs in order to throw a good punch. Plus, I want my perfect tiger Pokémon. Is that too much to ask? Raikou does not quite do ot for me

clbgolden October 22nd, 2016 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Sapphire (Post 9459967)
Yeah, too different. And the same thing goes for Pikipek's evolutions. You can't go from a woodpecker to a toucan. They're totally different birds


Basically put, as neat as a lot of the Pokémon images from the datamine are, until I see Sugimori art, I will not believe them to be real. And that's how all the datamine info should be seen as

This is a game series where we've had a fish evolve into an octopus.

Really, there's no reason not to believe these datamines, unless every single person who found the data are in on some kind of prank.

LilyGardy October 22nd, 2016 9:43 PM

Why is it such an issue that Littens final evolution is bipedal? If it was quadrupedal it would just get called a dark Arcanine.

Whilst Litten3 is my least favourite of the Gen 7 Starters, it has a fun design and I plan to use one at some point in the post game. Incidentally I would rank the Fire Starters regardless of Litten3's typing:

1. Delphox
2. Blaziken
3. Litten3
4. Charizard
5. Emboar
6. Infernape
7. Typhlosion

Litten's expression reminds me of a heel wrestler. So we have a heel wrestler, a wrestling 'big guy' (Emboar) and a Lucha Libre wrestler (Hawlucha), hopefully we get a Face wrestler at some point which would be at a guess Fairy/Fighting.

Overall I am pleased with the starters final evolutions and this might be the first Generation since 3 where I plan to use all three starters at one point.

CidHazard October 22nd, 2016 9:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caaethil (Post 9456549)
I'll never understand why people care so much about the typing. Sure, let's say it's Fire/Dark. So what? It's still a fighter. GameFreak have still gone down the horribly overdone design route as in three other generations. The actual typing itself is irrelevant, right?

Agreed... thought the overdone "fighter" designs for the fire starters are most likely because of the Hero archetype... Fire is closely related to passion, strength and that fiery will.

Look at the abundance of Anime characters who are Fire based brawlers... here's some notable examples.

Tsuna sawada - Katekyo hitman reborn
Natsu Dragneel - Fairy Tail
Portagas D. Ace - One Piece
Rekka - Flame of Rekka

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilyGardy (Post 9460322)
Litten's expression reminds me of a heel wrestler. So we have a heel wrestler, a wrestling 'big guy' (Emboar) and a Lucha Libre wrestler (Hawlucha), hopefully we get a Face wrestler at some point which would be at a guess Fairy/Fighting.

Isn't Machamp/Machoke the archetypal Face wrestler :D

LilyGardy October 22nd, 2016 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CidHazard (Post 9460327)
Isn't Machamp/Machoke the archetypal Face wrestler :D

Yes. :) But I think a Fairy/Fighting Wrestling Pokemon would emphasise the Face dynamic more.

CidHazard October 23rd, 2016 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilyGardy (Post 9460344)
Yes. :) But I think a Fairy/Fighting Wrestling Pokemon would emphasise the Face dynamic more.

I'd Like a Knight pokemon for Fairy/Fighting... rather than a wrestler, but that's just me :D

CidHazard October 27th, 2016 6:16 AM

We got a Fire/Dark starter.

So... Thoughts?

Z25 October 27th, 2016 6:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CidHazard (Post 9465189)
We got a Fire/Dark starter.

So... Thoughts?

He's as great as I expected him to be! I figured he'd be part dark type as GF knows better and he looks more evil like. I like the personality he has and the site bio. Definitely using him in my Moon team as he's one of my favorite starters.

CidHazard October 27th, 2016 6:40 AM

Here's footage of discus lariat (Which I think inspired the Darkness Lariat move) being performed.


Mawa October 27th, 2016 9:16 AM

Fire/Dark, not the first time we see this, but hey at least it's not Fire/Fight!! Glad to see a new typing for starters.

YellowTemperance October 27th, 2016 9:23 AM

He is everything I was hoping he'd be. My love of professional wrestling had been touched on with Pikachu Libre, but now it is fully realized. The fluff in his bio is also sweet, and really draws from his main inspiration, the anime masked wrestler Tiger Mask. Darkness Lariat reminds me so much of Mike Haggar and Zangief from Street Fighter, too. I love him so much! He's officially on my team going forward.

The Evil Mewtwo October 28th, 2016 12:44 AM

Incineroar looks better being in a trailer than the datamine video. He looks pretty cool now.

CidHazard October 28th, 2016 8:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YellowTemperance (Post 9465449)
He is everything I was hoping he'd be. My love of professional wrestling had been touched on with Pikachu Libre, but now it is fully realized. The fluff in his bio is also sweet, and really draws from his main inspiration, the anime masked wrestler Tiger Mask. Darkness Lariat reminds me so much of Mike Haggar and Zangief from Street Fighter, too. I love him so much! He's officially on my team going forward.

He became real at one point XD

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Tiger_Mask_IV_2015.JPG/220px-Tiger_Mask_IV_2015.JPG

Vegeta™ October 28th, 2016 2:17 PM

It reminds me of Tiny from Crash Bandicoot!

I'm a fan of Litten but not a fan of Incineroar.

kingdenas October 28th, 2016 2:45 PM

Something I like about Incineroar is the way it moves in battle. I think the art of it looks worse than its in-game sprite. Even though I would love Litten to stay on all fours, I gotta say this guy grew on me (I'm still Team Popplio obviously).

Knyte October 28th, 2016 8:32 PM

Not a fan of wrestling, makes me a lesser fan of Incineroar's design but it still looks good. This is also the second time I really like all the Pokemon starters. Still going for Decidueye.
He's decided he's too cool for you!

Degurchaff October 29th, 2016 2:11 PM

What i think about Incineroar

Xerecies October 29th, 2016 3:35 PM

Not too fond of it myself, prefer Decidueye's design and even his typing over Litten's final evolution (Incineroar).


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