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Sun & Moon and Kanto marketing
Some of us were discussing it earlier, but it caused a thread to go off-topic so that's why this thread is here.
Now, as we know, Sun & Moon has been promoting a lot of stuff in its trailers relating to Generation 1 and the people who grew up during the days of the original 151 Pokemon and the PokeMania fad. And with the release of Pokemon GO (which currently has a 1st Gen only roster) people who have fallen out of favour with the franchise have been coming back due to the Pokemon they recognize from their childhood, and Game Freak has been taking notable measures to make the most recognized Pokemon in existence and turn it into a way to have Sun & Moon pull back people to the main series who haven't played in years. Notable evidence to this includes:
That said, what do you think of the Kanto marketing in Sun & Moon? Do you see it benefitting the game sales? And add any other input if you want, as long as it follows forumwide rules and Sun & Moon rules. |
I honestly don't care if it's boosting sales, it's doing a large disservice to the games and is failing to recognize the series holistically.
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a comparison (Anabel is based on riddler; not certain yet)
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I always thought it was more to do with the fact that it's Pokémon's 20th Anniversary, so it's bringing back more Kanto Pokémon and characters for nostalgia to those who have been playing since Red and Blue, but to also somewhat relive the experience of Kanto to new players and those who played Pokémon after Red and Blue.
Of course, this will encourage previous Pokémon players who started with Red and Blue to come back to the franchise, but I think it's more just a way of celebrating the franchise as a whole by bringing back what started Pokémon. |
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I didn't start the series with gen 1, and after going back to play it years after I had continued with the series, I can definitely say it's my least favorite gen in terms of... pretty much everything, really. So a lot of the pandering is really lost on me because the vast majority of it doesn't appeal to me. And when some of the most major features of the game focus around this, it doesn't help me get too hyped.
Alola forms were a pretty neat idea at their core but there's a lot of lost potential when they purposefully ignore other-gen Pokémon in favor of only gen 1 Pokémon; and on top of that, most of them are just recolors with very very very miniscule design changes, so it almost feels like a lot of them truly weren't warranted. The few that are good are really good but it's clear they didn't all get the same treatment which really makes me think, "I would have much rather had a Popsicle Vanillite as opposed to Rainbow Muk," but we didn't get that because they'd rather force a design that can't really be changed a whole lot into a recolor just because it's a gen 1 Pokémon, than actually redesign another gen Pokémon. As for the number of Kanto Pokémon available in Alola, I also really, really don't get that. Because, didn't they make a huge deal about being able to transfer Pokémon from the gen 1 Virtual Console games? When they finally announced SM, the only information they gave aside from the games' names was this connectivity feature. Wasn't that to encourage people to buy the VC releases and easily transfer their Pokémon from there? So was there really that much need to include such an overwhelming number of gen 1 Pokémon in SM itself? Truth be told, I wouldn't mind this as much if it wasn't for the fact that just 3 years ago, XY had a lot of gen 1 pandering, too, with most Megas coming from gen 1 and the overshadowing of the Kalos starters by the Kanto starter megas, opting to use the legendary birds instead of making a new legendary minor trio, and even outside of the games with the Origins animation series. That's why I thought SM would be more "equal-opportunity" for each of the preceding gens--because we already got a lot of gen 1 pandering in XY. And this is a lot more personal but back in college it was not uncommon for people to say to my face that there was no way I could be a "real Pokémon fan" since I didn't start with gen 1, or if they asked which gen was my favorite they would cut me off before I could fully respond and just say "Those games sucked, the gen 1 games were the only good ones." This isn't an uncommon mindset in general, and it becomes way more apparent online. And looking at that comparison image, seeing it laid out just how little the other gens are getting when compared to gen 1, it almost feels like Game Freak is... proving them right, in a way? Like, the other gens "aren't good enough" or "aren't important enough" for them to get anything special in SM. Like, yay, they reused one of gen 5's generic NPC designs. Whoop-dee-doo, happy 20th anniversary... But hey, maybe Game Freak will prove me wrong. Maybe in 3 years we'll get a set of games that celebrate gen 2's 20th anniversary, with "Region X forms" of only Johto Pokémon, and "Q-Moves" for only Johto Pokémon, and Johto starter Mega Evolutions. But unless someone's got a Xatu we can borrow, we won't know the fate of other gens' "celebration games" for some time... It's stuff like this that makes me want gen 4 and gen 5 remakes more and more each day. |
I definitely understand Rivvon's post above. I didn't play any 1st Gen games (or in fact, any games where Kanto was the primary region) so I didn't feel the same way about the generation as a whole compared to most other people, and explains why 1st Gen Pokemon don't seem to get a lot of nods from me when it comes to stuff like favorite Pokemon polls and stuff like that. I also don't feel as hyped when it is a notable focus of new features, as we've seen with Alola Forms.
Also, like she said I felt that limiting the distribution of Alola Forms meant so many missed opportunities to other Pokemon that could have loved having an interesting redesign or concept used, and the sad part is we know that they'll only live on in works of fanart. And considering what she mentioned about Sun & Moon's Bank compatibility with the VC 1st Gen games, having all those Kanto Pokemon in the Alola Dex kinda renders that point moot. I remember how many Kanto shoutouts happened in X/Y as well, and while I loved the Kalos starters as far as designs and concepts go, I felt that if you're a Kalos starter and your name wasn't Greninja, you were pretty much overshadowed by that very Kanto starter that your trainer obtained in Lumiose City, because of the tempting new feature that was Mega Evolution. Kanto and Hoenn currently have the most representation of Megas as well, with the latter only being boosted thanks to OR/AS. It was due to that and the huge numbers of older Pokemon in the Kalos Dex, coupled with the low number of new Pokemon that the new Pokemon felt pushed aside by these older Pokemon, and that now seems to be the case with S/M - low number of new Pokemon, loads of older Pokemon in the regional Dex, and then there's Alola Forms that also seem to be overshadowing the new Pokemon. |
I think it was pretty introductory to a lot of things! I agree with most of you guys, but the thing is Gen 1 had the starting point and the 20th Anniversary is the 20th Anniversary because of Gen 1. I think Sun and Moon is trying to actually be a start of new things but it doesn't have to be all new! Sure most references are for Gen 1 but I think Gen 1 should be given credit where it's due. We'll truly see gen 1 pandering when it overtakes the special anniversary of other games.
Edit: (sorta forgot this) I get the Alola Forms were gen 1, but that gives us twins (hype and hope) to see other gens getting regional forms too right? :) |
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But I think it is fair to be very angry at them for the intense amount of gen 1 pandering that they have done. I'm not asking for a game with every past character and every past region and whatever, I'm asking for representation in a game that is supposed to be holistically representing Pokemon for the last 20 years. It's not the 20th anniversary because of just gen 1, sure that was huge but if you remove all of the generations in between you have nothing. The Pokedex is pitifully small and is overshadowed by first generation Pokemon in a time when, as Rivvon said, the generation 1 games are readily available on the 3ds and you can easily transfer them to the current games. The ratio of generation one Pokemon to every other generation is just crazy. Especially since Gamefreak claims that they are trying to give unused Pokemon the limelight, but instead just keep shoving the same thinks into our faces. If an old fan of the games is going to get it, it's not going to be because there are more than 80 Kanto Pokemon in the game. 3DSes are expensive and in order to play SM you need to be able to afford a 3DS and a copy of the game. Most people that haven't played Pokemon in a while, save for GO, don't have a 3DS or likely the money to pay for one. It's a nonsensical parallel to draw because in the long run it really won't make that much of a difference. Adding Pokemon to the game because they are readily recognizable is idiotic because part of the joy of Pokemon is discovering the new ones for yourself. Combine this with an ad campaign that reveals almost every new Pokemon in the game and you have yourself a recipe for annoyance. Hell, I'm not even asking for there to be less Kanto Pokemon in the game. Add all 151 for all I care, but just add more Pokemon from other generations too!! Especially when you have generations like gen 5 with plenty of good designs and the same amount of Pokemon, they should at least half of the representation compared to Kanto Pokemon. But they have less than 1/3 the amount of Pokemon included from Kanto. Also, if you are going to include so many Kanto Pokemon, at least justify their existence. They added so many Pokemon that should not have been added, that there were better alternatives to. On a series of tropical, volcanic islands, why are Pokemon like Slugma and Tropius not being included in the game?? The dex should ultimately just be bigger because it is pitifully small and excludes many many great designs. |
Something to keep in mind is that while this is the 20th anniversary of the series in general, it's also the 20th anniversary of the Kanto games. So it'd make sense to have extra emphasis on those, especially when that part of the franchise is still the most well known.
I'd have preferred it if there was a more equal amount of love/references made to all the generations, but the much more important thing to me is that the games are of quality, which is unrelated to regional/generational references. There are at least a few things they're doing right in Sun/Moon. |
Sure, I see it boosting the games sales, but they've been doing the whole "throwback" routine for quite some time -- even in Pokemon X and Y you had the opportunity to choose a Kanto starter Pokemon. Overall it is becoming stale in my opinion. I feel if they were to base the games in Johto instead, it would be quite the breath of fresh air.
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Kanto Pokemon are ridiculously marketable. The gen 1 games was the series' popularity at its peak, it hasn't gone anywhere close since then.
This is a smart business move, especially coming off Pokemon GO. The games are already breaking records before being out, it's sure to top XY, and I'd bet the Kanto marketing is a big factor. It appeals to me, personally. I never played the gen 1 games until they released it on VC early this year, but I've always thought Kanto had the strongest Pokemon designs. I see this as a celebration of Pokemon's start, and I'm all for it. |
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As for the 3DS part, sure, I was wrong to make such a broad generalization. But my point was that if most people are going to buy a copy of Sun or Moon with a 3DS/2DS along with it for these single games having not picked up Pokemon for a while, the inclusion of so much Kanto-pandering in things that are not even being marketed, like the Alola dex, will make no difference. There is no reason to bloat the dex with non-Alolan generation one Pokemon, there are many more ways to celebrate generation one, and if that was their intent, they ultimately failed at representing that. Quote:
Feel free to design an environment with the intention of including fan favorite Pokemon by all means, that would be great, but don't create an environment and then slap in some Pokemon because TBT!!! Many Pokemon that I don't even like or would use make so much more sense in Alola than the ones that appear in the Alolan Dex currently. Kanto Alolan forms are certainly a great marketing strategy and a cool concept, but why should they be limited to Kanto Pokemon? There's no reason to have limited them like that and just not make more designs, even within Kanto. My point being, celebrate Kanto all you want, but in celebrating Kanto don't forget that without the other generations there would be no Pokemon today. |
Not like Kanto got 2 Pokemon that had 2 Megas, Mewtwo and Charizard.
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I don't have a problem with all the Kanto throwbacks and cameos in SM, as long as that's what they'll be: throwbacks and cameos. Now if they start doing more copy-pasting of Kanto and taking away from Alola's identity like they did with Kalos in XY, then that could be a problem for me.
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The fact that they had an 80% 3DS sale boost following Pokemon GO actually proves my point. Pokemon GO made plenty of sense to have only gen 1 Pokemon but I don't think that that needs to extend to the full game for any reason at all. The full Kanto dex is not about to be released before the game starts and it is not a part of marketing, it is just making the game not diverse with Pokemon that are easily obtainable elsewhere. Pokemon GO brought players back into the franchise but that was Pokemon GO's job and putting in Pokemon simply because they're recognizable is useless and will not bring in any new fans because those people are not keeping up with the dex leaks and that simple fact will not sway their opinion. Basically about the mega thing I meant that if they're doing Alolan forms they should have released more and made more widely appealing and unique designs instead of mostly just recolors, but as you said that's mostly useless in this discussion. Quote:
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Okay. What I'm arguing for is that basically celebrate gen 1 by all means, but like I said that shouldn't take away from the previous gens. What I mean is that generation one has basically overtaken the game. Holistically I really like the game, but there is so much missing in respect to other generations that I feel slighted. |
It's the series' 20th anniversary, so expect heavy focus on Gen I nostalgia, which started it all. Of course, I should mention Gnoggin's Pokémon reboot theory video on how he wants the reboot to use only Pokémon from the first two gens with some of their typings changed like Alolan forms to appeal to the mainstream, who only know the original 151.
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I think it's fine... don't dislike the Kanto centric Marketing/features...
Do I think it's unfair for other pokemon to get their due... nope, the gen one pokemon has been with us for 20 years now... giving them some new exciting forms doesn't lessen them, heck it's more of an homage really. The fact that Alola forms (Which is restricted to gen 1 Pokemon) is seemingly replacing Mega-Evolution and they won't see their favorite Pokemon get an alternate form is leaving a sour taste in most fan's mouths, which is fair because not everyone has a connection to gen 1. But hey, This is just an opinion of someone who's first Pokemon Game was Yellow so take that as you will. |
Honestly future-games wise I love how easily accessible RBY games and Kanto Pokémon are because if not, they would have remade it and that would have sucked (imo). I don't hate Kanto. As a matter of fact, I love it, I really do but I am tired of hearing from it. That's how I look at it and seriously other gen regions have higher chances of being remade and that makes me excited for Pokémon's future.
Also I understand how most would hate gen 1 pandering, but they are mostly hardcore fans who really follow the game. But try to understand that the new games are mostly celebrating Gen 1. It's not just the series anniversary, but Gen 1's. Other gens would celebrate their own anniversary but Gen 1 is celebrating with the entirety of it. Believe me I know GF and TPCi are doing their best for these games but they are looking at Gen one because they are trying to honor what Gen 1 deserves. Still, I trust GF to follow through after these games and that they'll make it up to us in the following games and Gens. Enjoy the games as they are: games. Pokémon is Pokémon whether there is more gen one, or not. I liked Gen 1 but I loved Gen 2 first and Gen 3 stepped up to being my favorite. And honestly, I don't mind them giving Gen one it's deserved pandering after 20 years of Pokémon. |
I thought Pokémon 20th Anniversary was to celebrate the franchise as a whole... Not just Pokémon Red and Pokémon Blue. I thought they had already celebrated Gen 1's anniversary for making virtual copies of the first games '-'
Anyway, I'm not going to complain... I just don't care already :/ Let's just hope my hype doesn't disappear and that Alola stays unique as it should be! |
Hmm, I thought Game Freak and the others are pandering on 1st Gen for quite a while now? Just like the others said, Kalos games were brimming with several 1st Gen references, like Santalune Forest being similar to Viridian Forest, and how Professor Sycamore giving you Kanto starters as well.
But then, I think Sun and Moon are pushing their hardest to put much of 1st Gen content because 1st Gen is what started it all, and personally I don't mind any of those, as long as other Gens are having attention as well, since they do say in the trailer that "it comes all together", right? |
Personally I think this is a recurring theme throughout the series with perhaps Gen III and Gen V being the only cases were elements of Gen I weren't incorporated/updated. Even then most of the Gen V species seem like a twist of Gen I 'mons.
Understandably for the 20th anniversary, this trend of revisiting elements of Gen I has intensified as a celebration of what started it all off. I'm sure this would all occurred regardless of Pokémon Go, but that made it a necessity in my opinion as it created new fans who only care about the 151 and means some old fans have returned who might only care about 151. Personally I think its a good thing, we've had a lot of fun already just from seeing Alolan Exeggutor and Dugtrio. I personally will probably enjoy the game more knowing I can run some of my favourites from Gen I. I like every Gen of pokémon, but if I rate each gen just on the species introduced within that generation then its far and away the best overall in my opinion. My only concern has been whether they would damage old pokémon (as the Gen IV evolutions did in my opinion) through the redesigns and with the exception of Persian, I think we're clear on that front. |
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Gen 2 was very much a direct sequel to Kanto. The majority of Pokemon you can catch in Johto were Kanto Pokemon. They were much more common overall, and you even go back to Kanto and fight Red. Gen 3 was a soft reboot, sure, but the overwhelming amount of returning Pokemon were Kanto Pokemon. All the stable Kanto Pokemon were catchable, especially early on. Johto Pokemon were very, very few and rare to come across. Gen 4 introduced a lot of new evolution for past Pokemon, the majority being Kanto Pokemon. They were also easy to come across, and the stables returned. Gen 5 is an exception, but a lot of the early Pokemon take from the Kanto ones. Gen 6 was more blatant about it. Several events were reminiscent of gen 1, like Snorlax blocking your path, Lapras being a gift Pokemon, etc. You even get to pick one of the Kanto starters. Charizard and Mewtwo were the only Pokemon to get two megas, but I'd consider this more as a result of Charizard and Mewtwo being the most popular Pokemon ever not named Pikachu. Gen 7 has Alolan Pokemon, all being Kanto Pokemon. We'll see what else is there. (I'm avoiding the leaks.) Kanto has and will always be celebrated for being the start of it all. The Pokemon in general are just so, so marketable. It'd be silly NOT to pander to gen 1 fans. (Gen 5 got a lot of backlash for this.) It's very much like how every single Mario game call back to the first Super Mario Bros in some way. |
Although I'm kinda disappointed that the Alola Forms are exclusive to Kanto Pokemon, overall I don't mind the Gen One marketing. Tbh, it was always gonna happen considering it's the 20th anniversary, I really love Kanto and all the nostalgia surrounding it so it doesn't really bother me.
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Honestly, the only thing REALLY bothering me is the amount of Kanto pokemon in Alola, nearly all of Gen1 appears on the regional dex, that means there's more Kanto pokemon in Alola than Alolan pokemon themselves, that's just not okay, specially considering we JUST got a set of games with Kanto pokemon only that just so happens to be compatible with S&M, Gen1 pokemon are what we needed the least.
The Pokedex feels really unbalanced having so many Kanto pokemon and so little from other regions. It also kinda bothers me how a few Gen1 Pokemon got Alola forms while the rest didn't, if most of Kanto is in Alola why did only some of them adapt? seems kinda weird to me. |
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Nevermind the fact you can use your gen 1 Pokemon to use online, EV train or what have you. |
For people whom did not start with generation 1 (Like some of you have mentioned), naturally you can't feel the nostalgic feel to it. Starting at a later game then going back certainly don't make you feel better about it, definitely, since it was much more simple back then.
I am glad they decided to use Kanto's Pokemon to boost things up-- The friends from my generations whom have stopped playing Pokemon for ancients (Since the first generation!) have started coming up to me again asking me about buying Sun and Moon. I'd say it does help. |
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I'm not going to reply to anyone else in particular but I just want to say this: The Kanto pandering in SM is so widespread that it affects everyone differently. To someone like MKC, it doesn't make sense how there can be so many Kanto Pokémon in the region when there's not only less new Pokémon than gen 1 Pokémon, and there are so many other regions to take Pokémon from, but we also just this year got VC re-releases of the original games with the huge marketing pull of being able to transfer to your Pokémon from the VC games into SM. To someone like Ewery1, it doesn't make sense why they'd put in Pokémon like Magnemite over Magcargo when the region is supposed to be volcanic and tropical. And before anyone says anything: this is a valid opinion. "The average player doesn't care about details like that" is a weak argument. The average player also doesn't care about narrative in their games--that's why even in a Pokémon-loving community of people, most people will consider gen 5 as the "worst" gen, despite BW having arguably the best story, and B2W2 arguably having the second-best story paired with arguably the second-best amount of overall content. But let's just say if SM botch their story somehow, it would be hard to make a convincing argument of "Well, the average player doesn't care about the story so it's okay that it didn't turn out so hot." That's why it's perfectly valid to think that the Pokémon picked to be in Alola's regional dex is a weak point--it matters to someone and that's what matters. To other people, maybe they expected the 20th anniversary games where " " it all comes together!!! " " to have more than just a generic NPC ripped from one gen and a reference to a legendary that may amount to nothing more than flavor text in the end from another. Hey, maybe Game Freak intended for SM to only sing the praises of gen 1. Alright then. But that's not gonna change that some people aren't big fans of gen 1, or that other people like other gens and want to see them get some love which they only seem to get in their own generation and never outside it unless they get a remake. If the Kanto pandering had been limited to Alola forms, then only the people who were super highly mega against them would be taking any issue with this. But because this goes above and beyond Alola forms, it opens the doorway to take it too far in a certain direction that individuals may not like. These individuals may be super hyped for SM but still find fault in the way some aspects are handled. Some may not be hyped at all and the gen 1 pandering adds to that feeling. And both are perfectly valid. Yeah, maybe the gen 1 pandering is helping them bring back some genwunners for the time being and is a "good business move." Sure. But that to me doesn't make the gen 1 pandering any more appealing. |
Angelica's post just before me makes a strong point - the 20th anniversary is celebrating not just Pokemon as a whole, but the beginning of Pokemon which is where Kanto came in, and its set of Pokemon have the recognition identity that Pokemon from newer generations tend to lack. Pokemon GO has also been promoting Kanto a lot and has been successful in that manner with its Kanto-only roster that has been successfully bringing back fans who fell out of favour years ago, usually around 3rd Gen since I feel that was the point when many old fans left Pokemon.
Alola Forms put a fresh spin on these iconic Pokemon and while I'm not a fan of Kanto (in fact I never even played a game that mainly took place in Kanto) I do love the concept with the Alola Forms but as we learned, everyone views the Kanto pandering differently. Heck, I'm even disappointed with some of the regional Dex distribution for Alola since a lot of my faves are lacking in it (at least what I consider my "top" faves), but that at least turned out well in my plan to use only new Pokemon and an Alola Form or two. |
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Can I just say Ninetales is my favorite Pokémon, and the fact the creators recognized a Pokémon, that is usually overshadowed by Arcanine, in this game by not only giving it a good Alolan form, but also revealing it first is pretty awesome.
I actually started playing the games during Red and Blue, I'm most familiar with Gen 1 and 2 and to an extent 6. I lost interest in Pokémon around Generation 3, then XY brought me back to the games. So personally I would have been fine with seeing some of the later Generation's more popular Pokémon such as Lucario and Chandelure get Alolan forms. I probably wouldn't have wanted a Cricketune or Wurmple Alolan form in the vein of Gen 1's more annoying Pokémon like Rattata and Geodude. Of course since Gen 1 is the oldest game and thanks to Pokémon Go I'm also the most sick of a lot of the lower Gen 1 Pokémon and so am glad they have an update along with the cooler Alolan forms. |
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I also don't get why you continue to use the "every region, every Pokémon, every character" argument. Like, I get that you're trying to exaggerate for the sake of your point, but I don't think any of the ideas presented by the people in this thread are that unfeasible. Of course there can be no game with "all regions and all Pokémon and every single character." But... there can be another game with a PWT, which doesn't include every region or every Pokémon or every character, but it can include a sizable number of them. Or just keep it simple and bring back the Battle Frontier. Your argument is too drastic for what people have actually been saying. Quote:
And like, a lot of the people here have said they're hyped for the games regardless, they just don't like the Kanto pandering. Maybe SM will turn out to be their favorite games regardless of it. Maybe they'll enjoy the games but it won't be their favorites because the Kanto pandering was too much for them. Maybe they'll enjoy the games but it won't be their favorites because Lillie keeps giving them the stink-eye. So what? That's their opinion and that's fine. Is it really that important for everyone to see every single little thing about SM in a positive light? Quote:
So yes, Alola is its own region with its own culture and characters. But it also has "Alolan Prof. Oak," Red and Blue reappearing, alongside others potentially. Not to mention how few new Pokémon there are; there are more Kanto Pokémon in the region than new Pokémon, not to mention what happens when you add the rest in there. You're right... This isn't Kanto we're playing. But it's way too soon to know if Alola will suffer a similar fate as Kalos or not. And no, I don't think just because they have Trial Challenges they're automatically in the clear. Quote:
I think a lot of people view Pokémon as games that should progress from each other, regardless of what anniversary they're celebrating, which is why so many viewed gen 6 as a disappointment. So at the same time, while they probably look at stuff like the Festival Plaza and say "cool beans" they probably don't think of that as being the whole "this is our big gen 5 reference because we know you all played gen 5 for the Join Avenue!!" So I get what you're saying but I also totally understand why people don't look at stuff like that and think that that's how they're paying respects to the other gens. |
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Ultimately, I'm very disappointed with Gamefreak and this is taking away from my enjoyment of SM a little preemptively, although I can't say how this will affect me in the game, and I'm sure it'll still be great, just not as amazing as it could be. |
Personally I think the Kanto marketing in Sun and Moon was a good move. The only reason I even came back to Pokemon was the fact Sun and Moon sparked my interest. I only played up to gen 4 before the announcement of Sun and Moon. I've been spending my time playing gen 5 and 6 to catch up while waiting for Sun and Moon. Considering they got me to buy a New 3DS XL plus Sun and Moon...I'd say it was a good business move. Rip wallet.
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I'm sorry but, I think you're really trying to tie this whole thing around how I personally am not hyped for SM, as opposed to actually making this about the Kanto pandering subject... I dunno what it is about me not being hyped for SM that you don't like, but is this really the way to go about attacking me for it? Quote:
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If someone's shown information about something, they're gonna have an opinion on it. If they show a lot of gen 1 pandering, people are gonna have their opinions on the gen 1 pandering. That's how it goes. Quote:
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Maybe I'm the only one who thinks so, but I thought it was very clever how, say, in Unova you had Pokémon such as Pidove and Trubbish, since pigeons are very common in New York, and it's (sadly) a very polluted place. Pokémon such as these were appropriate for the region, and I thought that was a very nice touch--these and other certain Pokémon made Unova "feel" like New York. It's just fascinating to me that you put such a particularly heavy emphasis on Alola's "identity" but completely dismiss the Pokémon available there as a part of it. |
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Like, I'm legit trying to keep my expectations low while also giving Game Freak the benefit of the doubt that they actually can potentially make this facility worthwhile even though it's just another Battle Tower, which is the exact thing I was hoping we wouldn't be getting. How is that bad? You're so intent on calling me out on any little thing that you can't even see when I'm trying to be positive and keep my expectations from going too high ("but if we actually get a large number of returning major characters to fill in the role of "Tower Tycoon," this could still be the most enjoyable Battle Tower yet" "but we may just be getting some Champions and some rivals" "Oops this got too long too fast" "but I'm worried that would start pushing it" all from the posts you selected). And to keep this on the topic of Kanto pandering, the potential to actually include at least one character from each gen in the Battle Tower would be a fairly nice nod to them so there's that aspect that I like about it, too. Quote:
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And I get that this isn't going to happen and we should just let it go and move on, but I just wanted to say it to show there are other ways to do "references" than just "Wally's here, hey how you doin'" or "if you squint just right, it reminds you of Join Avenue." And it's because those exact methods of reference are used exclusively for gen 1 that it's easy for them to become a focus in some people's minds. |
I wouldn't mind the pandering again if it wasn't for XY having a whole bunch of it (like it really should have been saved for now). I was okay with it then a bit, because it didn't seem like a lot, getting a second pair of starters was nice, making those weak final evolutions given a needed boost was great too, and then we got Mewtwo which I'm kind of neutral on but it was cool to see it in 3D doing it's pose with a sweet new remix to go along with it.
What mostly annoys me about it in SM isn't the Kanto pandering itself, I mean.... Red and Blue back with new designs? Hell yeah! Giving some Kanto Pokemon fresh new designs? Sweet. Professor Oak has an Alolan Cousin? That's hilarious, I missed the old fart, so it's nice to see some reference to him. Alola forms are Kanto only? Eh... that's annoying but whatever. Special Z-Moves seem to only be for Kanto mons too so far (excluding the Tapu's) that's.... really a waste isn't it? I mean we don't exactly know if it's for sure yet, but there are many many Pokemon that could use a special new move. Johto gets...... special PokeBalls? I mean, that's cool I guess, but it probably means literally nothing to people who don't want to customize their Pokemon with special balls. Oh, and a guy wears a Meganium shirt. okay. Slowpoke Tails reference is kind of funny it'll admit. Hoenn gets.... riding a Sharpedo, and Wally's there (Which I'm assuming the Battle Tree will get one character from each gen anyways, so it doesn't make a difference). So cool I guess nobody likes Gen 3 anyways right? We're all still mad because it cut off connection with Gen 1 and 2 games right? What dumb Pokemon designs am I right? Misty is better than May. Sinnoh gets a new Rotom design! But it's not a Pokemon, it's a Pokedex.... alright. Well it still might be fun but eh. Type: Null and Shivally were made out of Arceus design which is cool, and maaaay tie in with Gen 4 remakes. Also Cynthia is there, which I'll admit is awesome, cause I love Cynthia and we didn't see a 3D Model of her yet, but she is one of the most popular Pokemon characters anyways and my point with Wally still stands. Unova gets..... an NPC pose. k. oh, and possibly a professor I've never even heard about until now. I'm happy I get to ride on a Stoutland though. But who likes this region i mean the pokemon designs were soooooo bad am i right? and who cares about the features BW2 gave or the story we got this is where pokemon went downhill totally Kalos actually gets a decent amount of stuff, with all the Zygarde stuff, Ash-Greninja, and seeing Dexio and Sina a bit grown up, which is nice but I feel the first stuff was just rammed in there just because they couldn't make Z happen. I like the Kanto love, it's all pretty damn good, and of course Kanto is going to get more love since it's mostly it's anniversary, but it just pains me to see SO little of the other generations. Pokedex distribution doesn't matter THAT much later because of Pokebank making it so easy to port over whatever Pokemon you wanna use in your journey. And again, the game actually isn't even out yet, so we don't even know what could await us, for all we know there could be many more references sprinkled throughout the game. Maybe there will be more ride Pokemon, maybe we'll get some more champions and rivals showing up, maybe gamefreak managed to scrub mega evolutions off the demo, whatever, I'm not going to let this favouritism affect my enjoyment of the game, and I still have yet to discover Alola and all of it's unique cultures and traits too, so that will be fun. I'm sure these games will be fantastic, but if we really get that little representation of the other generations, I can't help but feel that a little potential was wasted. |
I dont mind that only the kanto pokemon gets a alola form But i wouldn't mind seeing other forms I have seen a few interesting fan made ones like this one for example
https://camo.derpicdn.net/8da1241a30b9423b2889e562fc56a2426af42512?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpre01.deviantart.net%2F8760%2Fth%2Fpre%2Fi%2F2016%2F214%2F7%2F2%2Fdoublade___alola_form_by_locomotive111-dacemmy.png I have also seen a few more cool ones in this video right here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSasp79HOC8 New alola forms of others generations would be amazing It would take a lot more work But think of how awesome the ending result could be. |
^ Yeah I agree. Not just in terms of cool designs but from a logical point of view, it doesn't make sense that only Kanto Pokémon would need to adapt to the different climate, geography and way of life in Alola through developing new forms - surely non-Kanto-Pokémon would need to do so as well? tbh Alola Forms is the form of Kanto 'pandering' that annoys me the most, because it's such a cool concept but because it's been restricted to Kanto Pokémon for no apparent reason other than '20th Anniversary so Kanto everythingggg' is quite disappointing and a bit of a missed opportunity.
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