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Zeffy December 17th, 2016 7:21 AM

Counter that Pokémon!
 

Counter that Pokémon! - Generation 7 Edition


Information

With the release of Gen 7, I thought it'd be great to bring back a classic game! Counter that Pokémon is essentially what it says--someone posts a Pokémon, the next person tries to counter the Pokémon, and then the next person tries to counter that Pokémon and so on and so forth! This is a fun way to test your overall game knowledge as well as to learn some of the crafty ways other people tries to counter certain threats.


Rules

  • The game requires you to post an appropriate counter to the Pokémon, not just a simple check. Learn the difference between a counter and a check by reading this in-depth explanation from Smogon. Failure to follow this rule will result in your post being called out, so keep this in mind!
  • As mentioned in the previous rule, if the previous poster fails to post a valid counter, you should call them out and post an appropriate counter to what they were countering.
  • Pokébank OU Pokémon and below only, please. Here's the official banlist of SM Pokébank OU. Ubers and above can counter almost anything due to their sheer power.
  • Assume that everything is one-on-one, so don't factor in entry hazard damage or luck-based strategies such as confusion.
  • Do not slash information into your Pokémon's moveset. This completely defeats the purpose of the game since you can't alter your Pokémon's moveset in an actual battle.
  • Try to post your set in a readable format. You can use Pokémon Showdown's export feature to easily create a readable moveset format.

Useful Resources


And with that, let's start things off with something simple:

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/celesteela.gif
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

This thread has been Moderator Approved™ by aurora. :^)

PlatinumDude December 17th, 2016 7:47 AM

Alolan Marowak:
http://www.serebii.net/Shiny/SM/105-a.png
-Flare Blitz
-Shadow Bone
-Bonemerang
-Will-o-Wisp
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 120 HP//252 Atk/4 Def/132 Spe
Item: Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod

Alolan Marowak takes virtually nothing from Celesteela and can either cripple it with Will-o-Wisp or outright KO it with Flare Blitz.

Zeffy December 17th, 2016 10:05 AM

(your EVs are pretty weird. i think you meant to put 252 into attack instead of special attack?)

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/pelipper.gif
Pelipper @Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- U-Turn
- Roost

Marowak's STAB moves are a 3HKO at best, while Pelipper can 2HKO with Scald, as well as heal up any damage via Roost. Pelipper also outspeeds even without investments in speed.

Nah December 17th, 2016 12:16 PM

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/tapukoko.gif
Tapu Koko @ Expert Belt
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Timid Nature
-Thunderbolt
-U-Turn
-Dazzling Gleam
-Roost

Despite getting a new lease on life with Drizzle, Pelipper still loses to anything with an Electric attack

PlatinumDude December 18th, 2016 7:04 AM

Alolan Muk:
http://www.serebii.net/sunmoon/pokemon/089-a.png
-Gunk Shot
-Knock Off
-Pursuit
-Shadow Sneak
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 SDef
Item: Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch

Muk can't be poisoned and can simply Knock Off Chansey's Eviolite to make it easier to deal with.

Megan December 18th, 2016 10:18 AM

http://www.serebii.net/sunmoon/pokemon/750.png
Mudsdale @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- High Horsepower
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Superpower

Nah December 18th, 2016 2:17 PM

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/keldeo-resolute.gif
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power Ghost

Zeffy December 18th, 2016 3:48 PM

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/venusaur.gif -> http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/venusaur-mega.gif
Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis

I don't think this needs any explanation.

Frozocrone December 18th, 2016 5:50 PM

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/crobat.gif
Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Def / 212 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Taunt
- Roost

Brave Bird is a 2HKO, Taunt stops Synthesis and MVenasaur can only muster 3HKO on high rolls with recoil and 3 critical hits from Sludge Bomb.

Dark Azelf December 18th, 2016 6:55 PM

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body -- > Tough Claws
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- ThunderPunch
- Hammer Arm
- Zen Headbutt

gimmepie December 18th, 2016 11:18 PM

Torkoal @ Lefotvers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Def / 8 Sp. Atk
Relaxed Nature
-Fire Blast
-Will-o-Wisp
-Rapid Spin
-Solar Beam

Megagross can at best 4HKO Torkoal but Overheat OHKOs Megagross. (I'm assuming that Spd is meant to be Speed not Special Defense although this pretty much applies either way).

gimmepie December 19th, 2016 8:41 PM

Garchomp @Leftovers
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 240 HP / 176 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
-Earthquake
-Stealth Rock
-Dragon Tail
-Fire Blast

Even with EVs invested in Def not Sp. Def, Garchomp can tank every attack Heatran has with ease and OHKO it with Earthquake.

Zeffy December 21st, 2016 7:13 AM

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/rotom-w.gif
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Rotom-W takes virtually nothing from Garchomp whilst Rotom-W can cripple Garchomp with Will-O-Wisp, or 3HKO it with Hydro Pump.

gimmepie December 21st, 2016 9:38 PM

Alola-Exeggutor @Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 8 Def
Modest Nature
-Leaf Storm
-Draco Meteor
-Synthesis
-Power Swap

It takes 9+ moves for Rotom to KO Exeggutor but the big tree OHKOs with Leaf Storm. You either switch or die basically.

PlatinumDude December 21st, 2016 10:28 PM

Tapu Bulu:
http://www.serebii.net/sunmoon/pokemon/787.png
-Wood Hammer
-Horn Leech
-Megahorn
-Superpower
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Band

Tapu Bulu is immune to Draco Meteor, resists Leaf Storm, and threatens Exeggutor with an OHKO from Megahorn.

gimmepie December 21st, 2016 10:37 PM

Moltres @Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Flamethrower
-Hurricane
-Hidden Power Grass
-Roost

Moltres can survive any of Tapu Bulu's attacks switching in and then outspeed and OHKO it with either Flamethrower or Hurricane.

Zeffy December 21st, 2016 11:26 PM

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/aerodactyl.gif -> http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/aerodactyl-mega.gif
Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Rock Head -> Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Wing Attack
- Roost

Mega Aerodactyl resists all of Moltres' moves, is able to OHKO with Stone Edge, and is also able to Roost off any damage taken from Moltres.

gimmepie December 22nd, 2016 12:52 AM

Bronzong @Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp. Def
Sassy Nature
0 Speed IVs
-Gyro Ball
-Earthquake
-Toxic
-Trick Room

Mega-Aerodactyl without Crunch can't touch Bronzong whilst Zong OHKOs with Gyro Ball forcing you out to cripple your next mon with Toxic or set up Trick Room or taking you out. Not the most practical idea since I probably wouldn't know you aren't running Crunch, but the game is Counter that Pokemon not Realism xD

Nah December 22nd, 2016 5:15 AM

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/charizard-megay.gif
Charizard-Mega Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Timid Nature
-Fire Blast
-Solar Beam
-Focus Blast
-Roost

gimmepie December 22nd, 2016 8:07 PM

Dragalge @Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 28 Spe
Modest Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Sludge Wave
-Focus Blast
-Scald

Takes practically nothing from Solar Beam or Focus Blast and can survive several Fire Blasts whilst threatening an OHKO from Draco Meteor.

InvisibleWater December 25th, 2016 9:12 PM

Magearna @ Choice Specs
Ability: Soul Heart
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 48 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Aura Sphere
- Volt Switch

Magearna is immune to both of Dragalge's STABs and can survive at least one Focus Blast while threatening an OHKO with Specs-boosted Fleur Cannon.

Frozocrone December 27th, 2016 4:08 PM

Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- X-Scissor
- Shadow Sneak
- Protect

Couldn't think of much else but Wonder Guard makes Shedinja wall Magearna for eternity.

InvisibleWater December 27th, 2016 4:25 PM

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Stone Edge

If Shedinja isn't holding Safety Goggles (and in this case, it isn't), it gets taken out in one turn by Hippowdon's Sandstorm. If it is, then it still has to worry about Stone Edge.

Zeffy December 28th, 2016 8:32 AM

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/jellicent.gif
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt

Jellicent walls Hippowdon, can cripple with Wisp, fish for burns with Scald (and consequently 3HKO), and Taunt to prevent Hippowdown from using Slack Off.

Megan December 28th, 2016 10:48 AM

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/magnezone.gif
Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Frozocrone December 28th, 2016 11:17 AM

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/excadrill.gif
Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic

HP Fire is a 2HKO at best (not even a crit can OHKO). Meanwhile Excadrill outspeeds and OHKO's with Earthquake, ignoring Sturdy if you opt for it through Mold Breaker.

Zeffy December 28th, 2016 10:27 PM

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/gliscor.gif
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 200 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Roost

gliscor is annoying

Frozocrone December 29th, 2016 2:22 AM

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/clefable.gif

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Moonlight
- Flamethrower

FU Gliscor (+6 is an OHKO)

Nah December 29th, 2016 6:06 AM

clefable is what's actually annoying

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/arbok.gif
Arbok @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
-Gunk Shot
-Coil
-Earthquake
-Sucker Punch

+1 0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arbok: 113-133 (43.2 - 50.9%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO

Arbok outspeeds and OHKO's with Gunk Shot if that wasn't obvious

gimmepie December 29th, 2016 11:57 PM

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind


faf December 30th, 2016 12:36 AM

Helllo there:
http://www.serebii.net/sunmoon/pokemon/758.png
Salazzle @ Life Orb
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252spa/4spd/252spe
Timid Nature
-Flamethrower
-Sludge Bomb
-Encore
-Nasty Plot

Flamethrower has a chance to OHKO whereas Iron Head is only a 5HKO. As a bonus, Salazzle can lock Skarm into either Roost or Spikes if those moves are used.

Frozocrone December 30th, 2016 1:31 AM

http://www.serebii.net/sunmoon/pokemon/485.png

Heatran @ Grassium-Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Solarbeam

Yes hello, that is you being unable to touch me

gimmepie December 30th, 2016 11:34 PM

Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast
-Sludge Bomb
-Earthquake

Goodra can take 7+ Earth Powers or Flamethrowers and is not just immune to Solarbeam/Grass Z-Move by virtue of its ability but gets a powered up Earthquake as a result. It can tank anything you throw at it and then 2HKO with EQ, or if you hit it with a Grass move on the switch, OHKO.

Dark Azelf December 31st, 2016 6:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimmepie (Post 9522746)

Megagross can at best 4HKO Torkoal but Overheat OHKOs Megagross. (I'm assuming that Spd is meant to be Speed not Special Defense although this pretty much applies either way).

SpD = Special Defense

Spd = Speed

Writing stuff how it is on the smog stratdex lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisibleWater (Post 9530849)
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Stone Edge

If Shedinja isn't holding Safety Goggles (and in this case, it isn't), it gets taken out in one turn by Hippowdon's Sandstorm. If it is, then it still has to worry about Stone Edge.

Landorus -T @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
Adamant Nature (+Atk, - SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Smackdown

Cos gimmick.

InvisibleWater December 31st, 2016 12:37 PM

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball

It has trouble switching in (Knock Off 2HKOs on a high roll and Earthquake hurts), but once it does, Manaphy can OHKO Landorus with Scald after one round of Life Orb recoil or Ice Beam

PlatinumDude December 31st, 2016 5:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisibleWater (Post 9534723)
Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball

It has trouble switching in (Knock Off 2HKOs on a high roll and Earthquake hurts), but once it does, Manaphy can OHKO Landorus with Scald after one round of Life Orb recoil or Ice Beam

It's not a counter if it can't switch in directly. A counter is only a counter if it can easily take a hit from the opposing Pokemon and acting accordingly

Anyway:

Toxapex:
http://www.serebii.net/sunmoon/pokemon/748.png
-Scald
-Toxic
-Haze
-Recover
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/224 Def/32 SDef
Item: Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator

Toxapex has the bulk to take Manaphy's attacks and can Haze away its Tail Glow boosts.

Nah December 31st, 2016 5:52 PM

It still works out anyway, Lando can't OHKO Manaphy on the switch and Manaphy outspeeds and kills on the next turn with Ice Beam.

For Toxapex:

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/tapulele.gif
Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Timid Nature
-Moonblast
-Psyshock
-Focus Blast
-Shadow Ball

Scald doesn't do a whole lot, and the power of STAB Psychic Terrain boosted Psyshock will break it down faster than it can heal itself.

Frozocrone December 31st, 2016 6:08 PM

Tapu Lele can actually find itself go to Ubers. Shamelessly stealing the first set because it's Lele.

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/celesteela.gif
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower

Not much to say here.

Side note, if you're calling out Manaphy as not a counter you need to provide your own counter to the mon and Toxapex most certainly can't counter Lando xD

InvisibleWater December 31st, 2016 8:37 PM

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/heatran.gif
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic

If Celesteela does not have Earthquake (and in this case, it doesn't), Heatran can switch in on anything it tries to do, then cripple it with Taunt or 2HKO it with Magma Storm

gimmepie January 1st, 2017 2:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisibleWater (Post 9535073)
http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/heatran.gif
Heatran @ Leftovers / Air Balloon / Grassium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic / Solar Beam

If Celesteela does not have Earthquake (and in this case, it doesn't), Heatran can switch in on anything it tries to do, then cripple it with Taunt or 2HKO it with Magma Storm

You aren't meant to slash things in since it kind of messes with the game. So I'll just assume the first option for everything. So with that in mind

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Extreme Speed
-Earthquake

Dragonite is immune to Earth Power and can tank Magma Storm's for eons. Lum Berry can cure Toxic on the switch if it needs to. Meanwhile EQ OHKO's Heatran.

Abby January 1st, 2017 6:30 PM

Bastiodon @Chesto Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP 200 SpD 56 Def
Careful Nature
-Taunt
-Rest
-Toxic
-Protect


Bastiodon can taunt, to stop the use of three of clefable's moves, and whittle it down with toxic, resting if needed while taking moonblasts

Frozocrone January 1st, 2017 8:33 PM

It's like Celesteela can counter most mons, just ban it already xD

I'm going to go with another option though:

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/nidoking.gif
Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower

Earthpower 3HKO or 2HKOs depending on whether Bastiodon uses Rest. Bastiodon can't touch Nidoking in return.

gimmepie January 2nd, 2017 12:52 AM

Chansey @Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Sp. Def
Bold Nature
-Toxic
-Soft Boiled
-Seismic Toss
-Heal Bell

Chansey has exactly nothing to fear from Nidoking, being able to easily remove any status affliction it cops as well as heal the already negligible damage Nidoking can inflict all the while whittling Nidoking down with Seismic Toss.

Zeffy January 2nd, 2017 5:21 AM

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/breloom.gif
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly nature
- Swords Dance
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Seed Bomb

go away chansey no one loves you

gimmepie January 2nd, 2017 10:08 AM

Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Sp. Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Acrobatics
-Flare Blitz
-Roost
-U-turn

I think this one is self-explanatory.

Frozocrone January 2nd, 2017 6:11 PM

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/tyranitar.gif
Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- Crunch

U-turn does around 1/3. Sandstream breaks Gale Wings Roost.

I'm not too sure, but I think Stone Edge might OHKO.

gimmepie January 2nd, 2017 6:33 PM

Tangrowth @Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp Def
Sassy Nature
-Leaf Storm
-Knock Off
-Earthquake
-Hidden Power Ice

TTar can 3HKO with Sandstorm damage at best but is OHKOd by Leaf Storm. Tangrowth can then simply switch out to recover any damage taken.

5qwerty January 2nd, 2017 8:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimmepie (Post 9536660)
Tangrowth @Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp Def
Sassy Nature
-Leaf Storm
-Knock Off
-Earthquake
-Hidden Power Ice

TTar can 3HKO with Sandstorm damage at best but is OHKOd by Leaf Storm. Tangrowth can then simply switch out to recover any damage taken.

Sorry to be that guy, but...

Why was this the set instead of the Rocky Helmet one? Your set gets 3HKO'd by Stone Edge (69% chance by Crunch after Sandstorm damage) and can't actually OHKO in Sand because Rock-types get the SpDef boost. Here is calc:
0 SpA Tangrowth Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar: 204-240 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (so this factors in Sand because TTar is assumed to have Sand)

Essentially what would happen is, you come in on a Stone Edge/Crunch, take a Stone Edge/Crunch as you Leaf Storm, and then die to Stone Edge (possibly living Crunch) and then you KO with EQ (assuming you live). I guess you could switch out before after Leaf Storm, but I wouldn't really call it a counter.

EDIT: Oops I'm supposed to post an appropriate counter.

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off

TTar Stone Edge 3HKOs at best after Intimidate, while Lando definitely 2HKOs with EQ (and is faster).

gimmepie January 3rd, 2017 5:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5qwerty (Post 9536724)
Sorry to be that guy, but...

Why was this the set instead of the Rocky Helmet one? Your set gets 3HKO'd by Stone Edge (69% chance by Crunch after Sandstorm damage) and can't actually OHKO in Sand because Rock-types get the SpDef boost. Here is calc:
0 SpA Tangrowth Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar: 204-240 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (so this factors in Sand because TTar is assumed to have Sand)

Essentially what would happen is, you come in on a Stone Edge/Crunch, take a Stone Edge/Crunch as you Leaf Storm, and then die to Stone Edge (possibly living Crunch) and then you KO with EQ (assuming you live). I guess you could switch out before after Leaf Storm, but I wouldn't really call it a counter.

EDIT: Oops I'm supposed to post an appropriate counter.

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off

TTar Stone Edge 3HKOs at best after Intimidate, while Lando definitely 2HKOs with EQ (and is faster).

You got me on that one, I did that off the top of my head instead of checking the calc like I normally do. Here's a Lando counter

Chesnaught @Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp. Def
Impish Nature
-Leech Seed
-Synthesis
-Drain Punch
-Spiky Shield

The best Landorus can do is 9HKO with EQ after Leftovers. Drain Punch is only a 9HKO itself however Leech Seed, Spiky Shield and Synthesis make this a moot point. Lando is pretty much forced to switch or die a slow death.

Nah January 3rd, 2017 6:05 AM

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/tornadus-therian.gif
Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 96 HP / 160 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
-Hurricane
-Knock Off
-U-Turn
-Superpower

Given that it takes only one Hurricane to annihilate Chesnaught, its healing ability is rendered moot, and Drain Punch does at best 21%.

InvisibleWater January 3rd, 2017 5:53 PM

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/tapukoko.gif
Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power Ice
- U-Turn

Tapu Koko resists all of Tornadus-Therian's moves, allowing it to switch in safely and OHKO Tornadus with Thunderbolt (hazard damage may be required if it switches in on a Knock Off, though)

Frozocrone January 3rd, 2017 8:48 PM

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/marowak-alola.gif

Marowak - A @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightening Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bonemerang
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Substitute

Dazzling Gleam is a 4HKO. Aim for the horn with Thunderbolt.

Bonemerang/Flare Blitz/Shadow Bone all OHKO (Shadow Bone has 37.5% chance).

gimmepie January 3rd, 2017 11:57 PM

Pelipper @Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Sp Atk
Bold Nature
-Roost
-Hydro Pump
-Hurricane
-U-Turn

Flare Blitz 5HKOs at best, Bonemerang does literally nothing and whilst Shadow Bone has a good chance to 2HKO, Pelipper outspeeds even without Speed investment to OHKO with Hydro Pump and can Roost that damage off.

Zeffy January 5th, 2017 3:21 PM

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/zapdos.gif
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 180 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm nature
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power Ice
- Roost

this should be good, rain boosted scald is as a 4hko at best while thunderbolt is an ohko

InvisibleWater January 5th, 2017 6:07 PM

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
- Roost

Kyurem-B resists Thunderbolt and HP Ice, and is only 4HKOed by Heat Wave, allowing it to safely switch in and OHKO Zapdos with Ice Beam after one round of hazard damage.

gimmepie January 7th, 2017 4:25 AM

Conkeldurr @Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 236 Sp. Def / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Drain Punch
-Mach Punch
-Knock Off
-Ice Punch

Kyurem 3HKOs at best whilst Conk can OHKO or 2HKO with Drain Punch and heal back damage taken simultaneously. Mach Punch also 2HKOs.

Nah January 7th, 2017 5:45 AM

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/azumarill.gif
Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Play Rough
-Waterfall
-Aqua Jet
-Knock Off

Resists Conk's entire moveset, and even if he Band gets knocked off Play Rough still OHKOs:
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 372-440 (105.9 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

gimmepie January 7th, 2017 11:56 PM

Venusaur @Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow (Will be Thick Fat)
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 144 Sp. Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb
-Synthesis
-HP Fire

Azumarill 4HKOs at best whilst M-Venu can 2HKO off of Sludge Bomb or Giga Drain, also healing itself off of the latter. Knock Off doesn't work on Mega Stones.

PlatinumDude January 8th, 2017 12:04 AM

This is a bit unorthodox, but here goes:

Necrozma:
http://www.serebii.net/sunmoon/pokemon/800.png
-Calm Mind
-Stored Power
-Iron Defense
-Moonlight
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/232 Def/24 Spe
Item: Leftovers

Defensive Mega Venusaur's attacks 3HKO Necrozma at best; from there, Necrozma can set up Calm Minds (and Iron Defenses), then take out Venusaur with Stored Power after two Calm Minds:

+2 0 SpA Necrozma Stored Power (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Venusaur-Mega: 402-474 (110.7 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Frozocrone January 8th, 2017 2:05 AM

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/houndoom.gif -> https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/houndoom-mega.gif
Houndoom @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 40 HP / 8 Def / 208 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Will-O-Wisp

Yes, hello, I counter Necrozma by setting up alongside.

I was tempted to call out Necrozma against Venusaur, since Sludge Bomb 3HKO (even after switching in and Calm Minding), but the win could be pulled out via Moonlight on the first turn and then setting up.

gimmepie January 10th, 2017 4:06 AM

Magnezone @Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe
-Volt Switch
-Thunderbolt
-Flash Cannon
-Hidden Power Fire

At best you can 3HKO including the damage on the switch whilst Magnezone can outspeed for a guaranteed 2HKO and a possible OHKO.

Frozocrone January 10th, 2017 4:57 AM

Finally time for my favourite Gen 7 to shine!
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/turtonator.gif
Turtonator @ Assault Vest
Ability: Shell Armour
Modest Nature
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 4 SpA / 176 SpD
-Overheat
-Dragon Pulse
-Flash Cannon
-Focus Blast

Magnezone musters a 4HKO at best with Thunderbolt. Overheat OHKO's.

Nah January 10th, 2017 5:05 AM

Too bad it loses to my favorite Gen 7 Pokemon:

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/toxapex.gif
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 184 Def / 76 SpD
Calm Nature
-Scald
-Recover
-Haze
-Toxic

While Scald does little damage, Turtonator doesn't do a lot either, and since Toxapex has recovery while Turt doesn't, it'll easily outlast it and the turtle will eventually succumb to chip damage from Scald+Toxic.

gimmepie January 10th, 2017 11:38 PM

Sigilyph @Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Psyshock
-Heat Wave
-Roost
-Energy Ball

Toxapex's Scald can 4HKO at best and is more likely to 5HKO without Sigilyph having to fear a burn from it. Toxic is similarly useless. Meanwhile, Sigilyph can 2HKO with Psyshock and Roost away any damage.

ETL.it January 11th, 2017 12:06 AM

Grimer-Alola @ Eviolite
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Crunch
- Toxic
- Taunt

Sigilyph has about a 50% chance to 4HKO my Grimer-A w/ LO. Assuming LO is knocked off right after you come in, it's definitely a 5HKO. Knock Off+Crunch is an easy 2HKO and taunt is there just to prevent the roosting damage off.

faf January 11th, 2017 10:12 AM

http://media.pldh.net/pokemon/shuffle/638.png
Cobalion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4hp/252atk/252spe
Jolly nature
-Close Combat
-Iron Head
-Swords Dance
-Stone Edge

Poor Grimer never stood a chance as an unboosted Close Combat has a chance to 2HKO. Grimer's Dark-type moves will only make it stronger and Knock Off + Crunch still do low damage despite Close Combat's defense drops.

gimmepie January 11th, 2017 6:39 PM

Togekiss @Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp. Atk
Bold Nature
-Air slash
-Dazzling Gleam
-Roost
-Nasty Plot

Ice Punch is nasty to switch into, but can only 2HKO at best with about a 40% chance to be a 3HKO instead whilst the rest of your moves can barely scratch Togekiss. Togekiss however can switch in, OHKO with Air Slash and then heal any damage it took with Roost.

Frozocrone January 13th, 2017 3:15 PM

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/raikou.gif
Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice
- Shadow Ball

Togekiss can only 3HKO at +2 with Dazzling Gleam. Raikou can switch in and outspeed for the 2HKO with Thunderbolt.

gimmepie January 14th, 2017 3:25 AM

Lanturn @Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 104 HP / 192 Def / 212 Sp. Def
Calm Nature
-Scald
-Volt Switch
-Toxic
-Heal Bell

Raikou pretty much can't scratch Lanturn and whilst Lanturn can't do much damage back, Toxic will allow it to cripple Raikou and outlast it if it doesn't switch out.

Frozocrone January 14th, 2017 4:35 AM

Oh look, she returns:
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/clefable.gif
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower

CleSLAYble sets up and beats Lanturn with ease (Moonblast is a 2HKO at +3, possible OHKO at +6). Toxic does nothing.

Dark Azelf January 14th, 2017 12:54 PM

Pyukumuku @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Recover
- Soak
- Gastro Acid

Op. No weaks.

ETL.it January 16th, 2017 8:34 PM

Barboach @ Eviolite
Ability: Anticipation
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Amnesia
- Rest

First off, Barboach has Anticipation just to scout for the HP Grass of course.

Flash Cannon and HP Ice can 4HKO at the best, bar a crit. Just in case, Barboach packs Amnesia and Rest to boost and out last Zone.

EQ is an easy 2HKO.

gimmepie January 17th, 2017 4:44 AM

Mostly I just wonder why you didn't use Whiscash.

Tropius @Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Sp. Def
Bold Nature
-Giga Drain
-Leech Seed
-Substitute
-Air Slash

Tropius 2HKOs and heals off off Giga Drain and can easily set up Substitute whilst Barboach can't touch Tropius at all really.

Nah January 17th, 2017 5:44 AM

everyone wants to be cute after I posted Arbok I guess

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/froslass.gif
Froslass @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Timid Nature
-Ice Beam
-Will-o-Wisp
-Hex
-Hidden Power Fire

ded

gimmepie January 17th, 2017 8:47 AM

Magcargo @Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Sp. Def
Calm Nature
-Lava Plume
-Stealth Rock
-Toxic
-Recover

I dunno, it's more fun to use counters that you wouldn't be caught dead with in an actual battle. Anyway, that Froslass can't do anything to Magcargo unless you count a potential 6HKO from Hex but is 2HKOd itself by Lava Plume and allows for an easy setting of Stealth Rock.

Frozocrone January 17th, 2017 9:01 AM

Luvdisc @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance
- Safeguard

Yeah it's sad when your counter is a Luvdisc that OHKO's with Hydro Pump :)

gimmepie January 17th, 2017 9:41 AM

Vaporeon @Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 204 HP / 248 Def / 56 Sp. Def
Calm Nature
-Wish
-Protect
-Toxic
-Scald

Even if you use Safeguard to protect from Toxic, you can't touch Vaporeon really and will eventually die to Scald.

Pepperton January 17th, 2017 11:51 AM

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Superpower
- Seed Bomb
- Facade

i guess this is boring but it does hard counter

HardstyleRaver2 January 17th, 2017 2:55 PM

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 92 SpD / 28 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Return
- Heal Bell

0 Atk Pixilate Altaria-Mega Return vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 342-404 (129.5 - 153%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Zeffy January 17th, 2017 4:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardstyleRaver2 (Post 9550525)
Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 92 SpD / 28 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Return
- Heal Bell

0 Atk Pixilate Altaria-Mega Return vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 342-404 (129.5 - 153%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Altarianite is not yet available in Sun/Moon, sorry. I'm posting a counter for Breloom, then.

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/clefable.gif
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold nature
- Calm Mind
- Heal Bell
- Moonlight
- Moonblast

HardstyleRaver2 January 17th, 2017 4:50 PM

I keep forgetting that certain mega stones are not available yet. Anyways, here's my counter to your Clefable

Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 228 HP / 252 SpA / 28 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Scald

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. +1 248 HP / 8 SpD Clefable: 404-476 (102.7 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This was calculated after Clefable used Calm Mind. Dragalge can also take 3 Moonblasts before being KO'd.

ETL.it January 17th, 2017 11:45 PM

Bronzor @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Bronzor can eat all hits and set up, then rest and sleep talk as needed. 1v1s no problem.

gimmepie January 18th, 2017 3:48 AM

Incineroar @Choice Band
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Darkest Lariat
-U-Turn
-Earthquake
-Flare Blitz

I just made this up off the top of my head. should be pretty self-explanatory though.

Hammer1O January 18th, 2017 6:34 PM

Mimikyu @ X Attack
Ability: Decoy
Evs: 252 Spe / 252 atk / 4 HP
Nature: Adament
-Swords Dance
-Shadow Sneak
-Shadow Claw
-Play Rough

Incineroar had 60 base speed while Mimikyu has 96, so Mimikyu goes first. Mimikyu gets a free swords dance from decoy, and when coupled with X Atk and Play Rough, that Incineroar is going down.

gimmepie January 19th, 2017 6:14 AM

Ludicolo @Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk / 4 Sp. Def / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
-Hydro Pump
-Giga Drain
-Focus Blast
-Ice Beam

Steelix can 3HKO but it's too slow. Meanwhile Ludicolo can outspeed and OHKO with Hydro Pump or Focus Blast or 2HKO plus heal with Giga Drain.

Nah January 19th, 2017 7:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer1O (Post 9551422)
Mimikyu @ X Attack
Ability: Decoy
Evs: 252 Spe / 252 atk / 4 HP
Nature: Adament
-Swords Dance
-Shadow Sneak
-Shadow Claw
-Play Rough

X Attack doesn't work as a hold item, jsyk

To counter Ludicolo:

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/golisopod.gif
Golisopod @ Assault Vest
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
-First Impression
-Aqua Jet
-Sucker Punch
-Leech Life

Ass Vest Golisopod can comfortably take any of Ludicolo's attacks (Giga Drain is best option, but does 33% at best), while Goli can OHKO with First Impression or Leech Life.

HardstyleRaver2 January 19th, 2017 8:05 AM

To counter against Golisopod.

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake

252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 165-195 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 68% chance to 2HKO
Dragonite could easily set up against Golisopod and would definitely be ready to sweep.


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