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-   -   Trials or Gyms? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=394597)

Hikamaru June 6th, 2017 11:47 PM

Trials or Gyms?
 
So, with the fact these games may be implied to be an alternate universe or take place after Sun & Moon, I figured I'd bring up something that I think everyone would be speculating on, and that was the Island Trials which were a unique feature for Alola.

During the main story in Sun & Moon, Professor Kukui established a Pokemon League in Alola, on the peak of Mount Lanakila. Considering that became a thing, there could be a chance that Alola may have finally established its own Gym system in the time between, and that's where this thread comes in.

Do you want to see the Island Trials retained? Or do you want Alola to do traditional Gyms instead? What types do hope will be used for their specialities, regardless of which system is used?

jombii June 7th, 2017 12:51 AM

I want gyms. We have a league now so the obvious step is to introduce gyms. Maybe we will get some previous trial captains upgraded to gym leaders now.

L'Belle June 7th, 2017 12:52 AM

Why not both?

janejane6178 June 7th, 2017 12:54 AM

Gyms please..
Trials are silly.. Like, having Pokemon dance with a random man in a volcabo? cmon.

ShyRayq June 7th, 2017 2:23 AM

I wouldn't mind either way. But if they stay with just trials, they need to be a bit more extravagant. The SM trials were kinda lackluster, and were very formulaic.
If they decide to go with the purely gyms route, that's fine with me. If they instead opt for having both, I think trials should take a backseat so that the 'new gym system' can be focused on like the League sort of was.

blue June 7th, 2017 2:42 AM

Gyms! I'd love to see them in Alola and I'd be even more interested to see whether we get completely new Gym Leaders, or characters recruited from the Alola region that we're already familiar with. Initially, I did think those empty building spots in SM would go on to be Gyms, and now this seems like it could be true.

Hikamaru June 7th, 2017 3:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue (Post 9670461)
Gyms! I'd love to see them in Alola and I'd be even more interested to see whether we get completely new Gym Leaders, or characters recruited from the Alola region that we're already familiar with. Initially, I did think those empty building spots in SM would go on to be Gyms, and now this seems like it could be true.

I was also on that theory that the empty spots should become Gyms in a future instalment set in Alola, and now seems like the perfect opportunity to have a Gym system established. Kukui managed to establish a Pokemon League, so it's natural Gyms are meant to be next.

Also, it would be cool seeing some of the familiar Trial Captains become Gym Leaders as well, since they could be older and now retired from their Trial Captain position.

Sean Flame June 7th, 2017 3:37 AM

The trials were still essentially gyms.....just an "enhanced" version. Captains were basically the trainers that you fought before the gym leader (kahuna). They even kept the elite 4 (kind of).
Only true difference were less "badges" and you'd also fight totem pokemon and had to do tasks. At first, i was really iffy, but I admit it has grown on me.

Kartanaheart June 7th, 2017 3:38 AM

If they do introduce gyms again (I had a breath of fresh air after the trials and now I can't go back) it better have all the interesting filler of the trials (they made you do different things and weren't confined to just a building)

Hikamaru June 7th, 2017 3:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flame.Thrower (Post 9670504)
The trials were still essentially gyms.....just an "enhanced" version. Captains were basically the trainers that you fought before the gym leader (kahuna). They even kept the elite 4 (kind of).
Only true difference were less "badges" and you'd also fight totem pokemon and had to do tasks. At first, i was really iffy, but I admit it has grown on me.

The problem with Trials was that you don't even battle the Trial Captain! That was what I call wasted potential.

blue June 7th, 2017 4:29 AM

I mean I guess it wouldn't be impossible for a Trial system to coexist with Gyms, right? The only reason Gyms weren't a thing in Sun & Moon was because a Pokémon League hadn't been constructed during that time. That soon changed when we saw the completion of the Elite Four and the start of a Pokémon League in Alola, only that was at the very end of the storyline. Maybe we'll see Gyms as the next step to completing the full Pokémon League.

janejane6178 June 7th, 2017 4:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hikamaru (Post 9670512)
The problem with Trials was that you don't even battle the Trial Captain! That was what I call wasted potential.

This. The idea of having unique trials instead of gyms is fine by me, as long as the trials are serious enough. I only found Mallow's trial somehow unique and fun..
Running after Pokemon etc is dull

Ducolamia June 7th, 2017 5:01 AM

I think we're getting a mix of both. Maybe we get to fight the Totem Pokemon as our trial and then battle the Trial Captain to receive our Z-crystals? Just a thought. Since it's a third version I feel they would want to satisfy both audiences who love gyms and trials a bit.

BlazingCobaltX June 7th, 2017 6:23 AM

If Gyms return this game will already be perfect in my book. I'm still iffy about Gyms being replaced by trials so it would be awesome to see them coming back.

Sakib66 June 8th, 2017 3:07 AM

It will be great if USUM has gym battles....Trials were fun but not that much great

shadowmoon522 June 8th, 2017 8:09 AM

Gyms with trials as sidequests but with a few required.
though they have yet to give a trail thats as much of a pain in the http://www.serebiiforums.com/images/smilies2/201-a.gifhttp://www.serebiiforums.com/images/smilies2/201-s.gifhttp://www.serebiiforums.com/images/smilies2/201-s.gif
as this one
https://vripmaster.com/uploads/posts/images/d/de/Catch-Rayquaza-in-Pokemon-Emerald-Step-9.jpg

fenyx4 June 8th, 2017 8:32 AM

I think that I would rather have Gyms; Trials are essentially the same thing, except that you don't get a sigil/token of accomplishment for the non-Grand Trials (the Z-Crystals don't count, since they are equivalent to Gyms' Technical Machine (TM) prizes, and they don't look like Badges), and the Totem Pokémon are not under the direct ownership of the presiding Pokémon Trainer (whereas a Gym Leader's Pokémon would be under such ownership). So I guess Trials/Trial sites are "Gyms: with puzzles, with the Gym Leaders 'replaced, sort of' by a stat-boosted/augmented wild Pokémon, mostly without a Badge, with Z-Crystals in place of TMs".. If one considers Trial Captains as Gym Leader analogues and Island Kahunas as the Elite 4 analogues, then League structure is also kind of changed - instead of "8 Gym Leaders, then 4 Elite Four members", the order is "1-2 Gym Leaders, then 1 Elite 4 member. Repeat that process 4 times.". It's a slightly interesting mix-up in terms of order, but I'd rather have Trial Gyms - the Pokémon are directly under a Trainer's ownership, everyone doesn't just necessarily rip off Petalburg City Gym's mid-battle stat-boosting gimmick, and you get a symbol representing your fight (come to think of it, here it's weird how in Alola "Elite 4" give the "Badges" rather than the "Gym Leaders" XD). I like having Gyms mixed in with the overworld like Alola did, though. I also like Alola's Trial Captain order as a mix-up.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Totem Pokémon implementation in Trials means that we don't get a proper "Gym Leader battle theme" analogue? Apparently, "Vs. Totem Pokémon" is just a remix of "Vs. Wild Pokémon (Alola)"? If so, that's another reason I'd like Gyms or Trial Gyms, since we'd get a unique Gym Leader/Trial Captain battle theme like most, if not all, of the past regions have had.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Flame (Post 9670504)
The trials were still essentially gyms.....just an "enhanced" version. Captains were basically the trainers that you fought before the gym leader (kahuna). They even kept the elite 4 (kind of).
Only true difference were less "badges" and you'd also fight totem pokemon and had to do tasks. At first, i was really iffy, but I admit it has grown on me.

Interesting; under this perspective, that would make Alola seem underwhelming with only 7-11 "Gym Trainers" region-wide and only 4 Gym Leaders region-wide (and 4-5 "Elite 4" members (due to repeats), not including Champion/proto-Champion Kukui..?) All of the past regions at least have somewhere between 20-100 Gym Trainers region-wide, 8 Gym Leaders, and the 4 "Elite 4" members..

Despite Alola technically having an actual "Elite 4" separate from the 4 Island Kahunas, I personally considered the Trial Captains as Gym Leader analogues, and the Island Kahunas as Elite 4 analogues.. The actual Alola Elite 4 was unnecessary, in my opinion, since 3 members were lazily rehashed, and most Leagues just have one League battle against each League member (sans Kanto and its Giovanni+rival shenanigans).
Kahili is in an odd spot; without the other 3 rehashed Trainers, she seems to fall somewhere between Island Kahuna (although that would mess up the island numbering, unless you include the artificial island), Champion (Kahili fits due to being a former island challenge Champion, although I rather like Kukui referencing the Generation 1 Champion beta element of Professor Oak, plus the position ties in with him researching Pokémon moves), and facility head/Frontier Brain level (maybe a good fit for Kahili, since she definitely has skill but her current placement is somewhat of an anomaly)..

As for what I expect in Pokémon Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon, due to the alternate story thing, I feel like Trials will be retained from Pokémon Sun/Moon anyway (hopefully with Stamps for the non-Grand Trials); maybe some Gyms will be present as a bonus.. I kind of hope that the unmanned Trial Site(s) (1 that was active with a Totem Pokémon in SM, and 1 that is not active in SM but was used in the past, if I remember) will get used (maybe with Ryuki).. I feel that Trial Captain and Island Kahuna types will either be retained or mixed up. I hope that as many of the 18 currently-existing types can get used in some way (with consideration of Guzma as a type specialist who parallels the Trial Captains and Gym Leaders - as in, if he is still Team Skull's leader, his type should not conflict with the type of a Trial Captain or Island Kahuna). Somebody in the "Alola League" definitely needs to use the Ice type, since it went unused in SM.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 8th, 2017 9:10 AM

What if with the return of gyms we also see the return of HMs? xD

Anyway, I would like a mix of gyms and Trials. Like after defeating the Totem mon we go on to fight the Trial Captain.

pkmin3033 June 8th, 2017 9:16 AM

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bth.gif

pikachurcks June 8th, 2017 11:11 AM

I did battle Lana

Darkbirt June 8th, 2017 11:42 AM

What do you think about both, all gym badges for the league and all trials for the battle tree.

Radiating June 8th, 2017 5:54 PM

I think it'll be a mix of both. Some of you may recall empty plots of land all over Alola. Some people (including myself) think that these will become gyms for Alola.


Sirfetch’d June 8th, 2017 6:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiating (Post 9672900)
I think it'll be a mix of both. Some of you may recall empty plots of land all over Alola. Some people (including myself) think that these will become gyms for Alola.


I agree. I fully expect those spots to be turned into gyms, but I still think we will have the trials where we will be collecting Z crystals.

Eresse June 8th, 2017 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Choice Specs (Post 9672939)
I agree. I fully expect those spots to be turned into gyms, but I still think we will have the trials where we will be collecting Z crystals.

I really wouldn't mind having both. The gyms could be more combat-focused, and the trials could focus more on puzzles and exploration (like the forest trial).

pkmin3033 June 8th, 2017 9:11 PM

One note on both - they had better not be mutually exclusive, or have one required to do the other. What would be lovely would be if you could choose between them for progression, but still go back and do the other one afterwards if you wanted to. I realise that will never happen, because Game Freak aren't that thoughtful of a company, but I think it'd be fantastic (and long overdue) if we got to actually chart our own game progression from choices available to us, rather than being forced to repeat the same thing over and over to get anywhere. Even if Gyms and Trials are basically the same thing.

Kiyotaka Ishimaru June 8th, 2017 11:11 PM

I prefer Trials for these games. They've been a fun addition to the system, although it would be preferable for them to have a higher difficulty and more extensiveness for the new games that will be coming out. It would also be nice to have more character backstory and characterization for all of the Trial Captains.

Hikamaru June 9th, 2017 8:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colours (Post 9673067)
I honestly don't care either or. I don't quite understand the hatred on trials -- they fit the theme of the game, after all -- even if it's not your cup of tea in terms of deviating from traditional Gyms. In the context and bigger picture of sticking to a Hawaiian theme, I'd say while there's plenty of room to grow insofar as the execution of trials, I hesitate to say they were done poorly (with the possible exception of Mina).

I think the reason why people were disappointed with Trials was because they only had one different thing going for them, and that was being out in the open and not a building. Game Freak even said the reason this was done was because they wanted to put nature at the full-front of focus in S/M.

Trials were basically done poorly, in that aside from the task you do before the Totem fight, you still fight a few Pokemon before the Totem, just like how you fight other trainers before the Gym Leader.

Mawa June 10th, 2017 6:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radiating (Post 9672900)
I think it'll be a mix of both. Some of you may recall empty plots of land all over Alola. Some people (including myself) think that these will become gyms for Alola.


This is awesome :o I definitely want this too.

Trials are fine but I don't want to see them becoming the "new gyms"... I wouldn't mind if it's gonna be the trials in USUM as it is still in Alola. But now that there's a league in Alola... maybe there will be some gyms?

... or maybe two separate leagues: one with gyms and one with trials. Maybe???? XD

smocks June 10th, 2017 4:17 PM

I think Gyms will be appearing in Alola! But since SM ended off with the start of the construction of the Pokémon League, all the gyms will be newly constructed and the trial captains & kahunas will be the Gym Leaders! But since they're all so used to the Alola Traditional Trials, they'll probably be incorporated into the gyms probably as puzzles.

& +1 to Radiating's post, totally hinting at the construction of gyms for Alola's Pokémon League imo.

Flowerchild June 10th, 2017 8:48 PM

I actually really preferred the trials. I hope GF won't abandon this like they do so many other cool features. Gyms are fun but they're getting old and they're just not interesting to me anymore.

thedarkdragon11 June 10th, 2017 8:56 PM

I hope to see both... With one of them as a post-league quest, just like the Kanto exploration in GSC and HGSS wherein you have a chance to challenge the Indigo League gyms...

Hikamaru June 10th, 2017 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colours (Post 9675178)
If the reason people had a problem with them is because they're not in a building then, bluntly speaking (but will all due respect), that's dumb.

In essence, Trials are basically Gyms with a fresh coat of paint. What does it matter if they're outdoors or indoors? I wouldn't be upset if they were indoors but had some Hawaiian Gym theme going on, but since the overall focus is more nature related, it's outdoors. Getting upset at that is quite frankly silly.

I'd rather Game Freak put more focus on the character development of the Trial Captains themselves. I'd like to see you work with the Captains to bring down Ultra Beasts, to bring down the Aether Foundation, Team Skull, etc. Have them more out there, y'know? SM showed that there was a lot of potential for this; the Trial Captains seems to have more personality and, for the most part, weren't cardboard like most Gym Leaders of past generations.

I do admit there was one positive with the feature and that was the Trial Captains having personality and that you were able to visit where they lived meaning you'd learn more about them. I guess people though it was a fresh idea at first, but then realised that it had barely any difference from how a Gym played out in that you faced smaller subjects before the main boss itself.

It was a huge shame we didn't get to see more of the Trial Captains themselves, in that they didn't serve any notable part of the plot other than Acerola who becomes an Elite Four member, while Mina's roles didn't come into effect until the postgame.


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