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jombii June 7th, 2017 10:08 PM

Pokemon League Speculation
 
Do you think they will retain the same set of characters? What role will Kukui play?

I personally think Kahili will get the axe. Let's see more of her outside of the "oh another grand trial completionist who became E4 yeah" and more of who she is and everything. I really thought she is going to play a much bigger part since she was hinted at the demo.

Hikamaru June 7th, 2017 11:04 PM

I feel Kahili was an unnecessary inclusion as well, and you also have to notice she was a former Island Challenge Champion who only got interest to return to Alola because of the league being established.

If there's any member of the current Elite Four who I think could be dropped, I'd say it be her since we never really see her much outside of the league unlike Hala, Olivia and Acerola who we all met prior to them being in the Elite Four. And hey, the Indigo League did change Elite Four lineup between R/B/Y and G/S/C so it wouldn't hurt to try that formula again.

pkmin3033 June 7th, 2017 11:07 PM

I have a weird feeling that, if they DO include Lillie in this game, she'll be the Champion. Don't ask me why, it was just something that popped into my head. I also feel like Hau will replace his grandfather if he's in the games.

Hikamaru June 7th, 2017 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meyneth (Post 9671921)
I have a weird feeling that, if they DO include Lillie in this game, she'll be the Champion. Don't ask me why, it was just something that popped into my head. I also feel like Hau will replace his grandfather if he's in the games.

I would definitely be on board with Hau becoming a Kahuna, if not Elite Four.

jombii June 8th, 2017 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hikamaru (Post 9671940)
I would definitely be on board with Hau becoming a Kahuna, if not Elite Four.

Me too. It would definitely conclude his story as he wanted to defeat his grandfather and if Hala retains his E4 spot, someone should lead the island.

L'Belle June 8th, 2017 12:30 AM

If it's a sequel, I would agree with this. If it's an alternate universe... maybe!

janejane6178 June 8th, 2017 2:09 AM

But unfortunately Gf already said it's an alternative version, although I really wanted itto be a sequal

Hikamaru June 8th, 2017 2:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janejane6178 (Post 9672091)
But unfortunately Gf already said it's an alternative version, although I really wanted itto be a sequal

Maybe they're using the "alternate universe" as a way to promote and the actual outcome will be something we didn't expect.

janejane6178 June 8th, 2017 2:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hikamaru (Post 9672099)
Maybe they're using the "alternate universe" as a way to promote and the actual outcome will be something we didn't expect.

Well I hope you're right

blue June 8th, 2017 5:35 AM

I'm really thinking that Gyms will have been constructed on these sites meaning USM will have a fully functioning Pokémon League.



Elite Four could stay the same, but it's likely that one or two of the members will be swapped out in place of new ones. As for the Gym Leaders, I'm hoping we get a mix of older and new characters, perhaps from the Battle Tree or ones we're already familiar with from Sun & Moon. Mina having a Fairy-type Gym for example would be awesome.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire June 8th, 2017 7:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue (Post 9672228)
I'm really thinking that Gyms will have been constructed on these sites meaning USM will have a fully functioning Pokémon League.



Elite Four could stay the same, but it's likely that one or two of the members will be swapped out in place of new ones. As for the Gym Leaders, I'm hoping we get a mix of older and new characters, perhaps from the Battle Tree or ones we're already familiar with from Sun & Moon. Mina having a Fairy-type Gym for example would be awesome.

Nice eye! Didn't even notice that there were that many construction sites xD.

Maybe Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon will be alternate versions (aka third versions) of SM but whose events take place slightly after for whatever reason. Like how Emerald took place after Steven left opposed to RS which was before.
In that case, they can do the gym thing (with Kukui's league being finished before the retold and changed events that happened in SM). If so then I see Hapu being our champion. She had all the attributes of a typical one too! We see her multiple times throughout our journey in SM. Not to mention that she is the final Kahuna and even challenges the league post game.

Hikamaru June 8th, 2017 8:57 AM

I did see Joe's post with those pics of the "empty slots" which were brought up in a video by a YouTuber named Twintendo. Some of them look out-of-place but he did still bring up other possible empty areas to use, so I do recommend seeing the video to get the point of the theory.

fenyx4 June 8th, 2017 9:25 AM

Some of my relevant thoughts from the "Trials vs. Gym" thread (I'm currently on a mobile interface, so some quotes from other users over there didn't transfer properly):

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenyx4 (Post 9672396)
I think that I would rather have Gyms; Trials are essentially the same thing, except that you don't get a sigil/token of accomplishment for the non-Grand Trials (the Z-Crystals don't count, since they are equivalent to Gyms' Technical Machine (TM) prizes, and they don't look like Badges), and the Totem Pokémon are not under the direct ownership of the presiding Pokémon Trainer (whereas a Gym Leader's Pokémon would be under such ownership). So I guess Trials/Trial sites are "Gyms: with puzzles, with the Gym Leaders 'replaced, sort of' by a stat-boosted/augmented wild Pokémon, mostly without a Badge, with Z-Crystals in place of TMs".. If one considers Trial Captains as Gym Leader analogues and Island Kahunas as the Elite 4 analogues, then League structure is also kind of changed - instead of "8 Gym Leaders, then 4 Elite Four members", the order is "1-2 Gym Leaders, then 1 Elite 4 member. Repeat that process 4 times.". It's a slightly interesting mix-up in terms of order, but I'd rather have Trial Gyms - the Pokémon are directly under a Trainer's ownership, everyone doesn't just necessarily rip off Petalburg City Gym's mid-battle stat-boosting gimmick, and you get a symbol representing your fight (come to think of it, here it's weird how in Alola "Elite 4" give the "Badges" rather than the "Gym Leaders" XD). I like having Gyms mixed in with the overworld like Alola did, though. I also like Alola's Trial Captain order as a mix-up.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Totem Pokémon implementation in Trials means that we don't get a proper "Gym Leader battle theme" analogue? Apparently, "Vs. Totem Pokémon" is just a remix of "Vs. Wild Pokémon (Alola)"? If so, that's another reason I'd like Gyms or Trial Gyms, since we'd get a unique Gym Leader/Trial Captain battle theme like most, if not all, of the past regions have had.



Interesting; under this perspective, that would make Alola seem underwhelming with only 7-11 "Gym Trainers" region-wide and only 4 Gym Leaders region-wide (and 4-5 "Elite 4" members (due to repeats), not including Champion/proto-Champion Kukui..?) All of the past regions at least have somewhere between 20-100 Gym Trainers region-wide, 8 Gym Leaders, and the 4 "Elite 4" members..

Despite Alola technically having an actual "Elite 4" separate from the 4 Island Kahunas, I personally considered the Trial Captains as Gym Leader analogues, and the Island Kahunas as Elite 4 analogues.. The actual Alola Elite 4 was unnecessary, in my opinion, since 3 members were lazily rehashed, and most Leagues just have one League battle against each League member (sans Kanto and its Giovanni+rival shenanigans).
Kahili is in an odd spot; without the other 3 rehashed Trainers, she seems to fall somewhere between Island Kahuna (although that would mess up the island numbering, unless you include the artificial island), Champion (Kahili fits due to being a former island challenge Champion, although I rather like Kukui referencing the Generation 1 Champion beta element of Professor Oak, plus the position ties in with him researching Pokémon moves), and facility head/Frontier Brain level (maybe a good fit for Kahili, since she definitely has skill but her current placement is somewhat of an anomaly)..

As for what I expect in Pokémon Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon, due to the alternate story thing, I feel like Trials will be retained from Pokémon Sun/Moon anyway (hopefully with Stamps for the non-Grand Trials); maybe some Gyms will be present as a bonus.. I kind of hope that the unmanned Trial Site(s) (1 that was active with a Totem Pokémon in SM, and 1 that is not active in SM but was used in the past, if I remember) will get used (maybe with Ryuki).. I feel that Trial Captain and Island Kahuna types will either be retained or mixed up. I hope that as many of the 18 currently-existing types can get used in some way (with consideration of Guzma as a type specialist who parallels the Trial Captains and Gym Leaders - as in, if he is still Team Skull's leader, his type should not conflict with the type of a Trial Captain or Island Kahuna). Somebody in the "Alola League" definitely needs to use the Ice type, since it went unused in SM.

----
I think that Trial Captains and Island Kahunas will be retained and rearranged from SM to US/UM. However, I do like everyone's characterization from SM (especially Mallow's <3), although Hau seems a bit too goody-goody from what I've seen of him. But like others have said, Hau somehow surpassing his grandfather Hala (and achieving his goal) would be neat (in spite of the alternate story thing).

It really irks me that the actual Alola Elite 4 re-uses 2 Island Kahunas and 1 Trial Captain (even if Kukui is scrounging around trying to form a "League"..the island challenge trial hosts make good League members as they are) - and why in the world are Island Kahuna Nanu and/or Island Kahuna Hapu getting shafted of an Elite 4 spot thanks to Trial Captain Acerola, when Nanu and Hapu are clearly stronger than Acerola? It makes no sense at all..

I feel like Kahili is a great character (although maybe too reminiscent of Winona), but her position should be either:
-altered to the 5th Island Kahuna of Alola's artificial island,
-retained as an Elite 4 member, provided that the 3 other "Elite 4" members are replaced with new people (otherwise, if the "Elite 4" is just going to repeat people and result in redundant fights, you might as well excise the Elite 4, thus leaving the 4 Island Kahunas as Elite 4 analogues)
-act as proto-Champion/Champion in place of Kukui (my least preferred option, since I like Kukui as Champion)
-converted to Kahili being the true facility head for the Battle Tree (so that someone can logically run the place when Red and Blue end their vacation in Alola and go back home to Kanto).

Nevertheless, Kahili's golf course thing needs to be expanded/implemented properly (if she even is still associated with it in US/UM).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hikamaru (Post 9671918)
I feel Kahili was an unnecessary inclusion as well, and you also have to notice she was a former Island Challenge Champion who only got interest to return to Alola because of the league being established.

If there's any member of the current Elite Four who I think could be dropped, I'd say it be her since we never really see her much outside of the league unlike Hala, Olivia and Acerola who we all met prior to them being in the Elite Four. And hey, the Indigo League did change Elite Four lineup between R/B/Y and G/S/C so it wouldn't hurt to try that formula again.

This stance seems surprising to me; if anything, I thought that Kahili is the one person who deserves that Elite 4 spot rather than just being dropped, since she's the only one who demonstrated enough skill and trounced everyone else, including her Elite 4 colleagues (or whoever was active as Trial Captains and Island Kahunas when she undertook her own island challenge in the past). She just needs to be fleshed out a bit more, in my opinion..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue (Post 9672228)
I'm really thinking that Gyms will have been constructed on these sites meaning USM will have a fully functioning Pokémon League.



Elite Four could stay the same, but it's likely that one or two of the members will be swapped out in place of new ones. As for the Gym Leaders, I'm hoping we get a mix of older and new characters, perhaps from the Battle Tree or ones we're already familiar with from Sun & Moon. Mina having a Fairy-type Gym for example would be awesome.

Nice to finally see those purported empty Alola sites; they would indeed make great spots for Gyms or Trial-based Gyms.. It would be interesting to see Ilima and Mina switch types - however, I really want to see what were the original intentions for the type specialties of Ilima and Mina, since their roles being reversed makes too much sense...!

Guzma being a Bug-type Trial Captain or Island Kahuna (or even Elite 4) would be interesting, as would Ryuki being a Dragon-type Alola League member.. I'm fond of Mallow representing the Grass type.. If still Champion/proto-Champion, Kukui should retain his type medley.

jombii June 8th, 2017 4:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenyx4 (Post 9672455)
and why in the world are Island Kahuna Nanu and/or Island Kahuna Hapu getting shafted of an Elite 4 spot thanks to Trial Captain Acerola, when Nanu and Hapu are clearly stronger than Acerola? It makes no sense at all..

probably because Nanu doesn't really want the position (afaik, he though being the kahuna was tiresome) and Hapu was just recently instated as the island kahuna and would be disrespectful to Tapu Fini if she leaves.

Kahili as the battle tree head is interesting, to say the least. She's qualified for the job and I would like to see more of her.

Hikamaru June 8th, 2017 4:47 PM

Home is correct regarding Nanu. He declined the offer so that's why Acerola was there instead.

clbgolden June 8th, 2017 6:59 PM

This time around, can we get a proper Victory Road, please? I know Vast Poni Canyon was kind of like a Victory Road, but it just wasn't the same.

I want a real Victory Road. One with trainers who have claimed to have spent their entire lives training for this yet only have four Pokémon, one with a good ol' rival battle at the end, and, most importantly, one that's actually before the League.

jombii June 8th, 2017 7:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clbgolden (Post 9672948)

One with trainers who have claimed to have spent their entire lives training for this yet only have four Pokémon.

uhm shade?


but this is also a real talk.

fenyx4 June 8th, 2017 8:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Home (Post 9672852)
probably because Nanu doesn't really want the position (afaik, he though being the kahuna was tiresome) and Hapu was just recently instated as the island kahuna and would be disrespectful to Tapu Fini if she leaves.

Kahili as the battle tree head is interesting, to say the least. She's qualified for the job and I would like to see more of her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hikamaru (Post 9672862)
Home is correct regarding Nanu. He declined the offer so that's why Acerola was there instead.

Thanks to you two for the explanation! I haven't actually gotten to play through Pokémon Sun/Moonyet, so that clarification helps. Dang it, Nanu and Tapu Fini! Well, this revelation sheds a bit more light on things.. But geez, Tapu Fini, can't you give Hapu like 5 measly minutes to be thoroughly humiliated in battle again represent the pride of her island on the great summit of Alola's Mount Lanakila..? If Nanu doesn't want the job, then is Acerola getting primed to become a Kahuna or what..? (unless Acerola was just randomly available). At least Kahili serves as a suitable stand-in Trainer..

Quote:

Originally Posted by clbgolden (Post 9672948)
This time around, can we get a proper Victory Road, please? I know Vast Poni Canyon was kind of like a Victory Road, but it just wasn't the same.

I want a real Victory Road. One with trainers who have claimed to have spent their entire lives training for this yet only have four Pokémon, one with a good ol' rival battle at the end, and, most importantly, one that's actually before the League.

ROFL at your remark about Victory Road's typical Pokémon Trainers.. Vast Poni Canyon serving as a substitute Victory Road is interesting, but it should at least be right before Mount Lanakila/Mount Lanakila's summit! So then what is between Vast Poni Canyon and Mount Lanakila? The Nebby subplot and some other routes, or what..?

Also, I was going to say that Alola's "Pokémon League headquarters location" should have an actual in-game name like Indigo Plateau or Ever Grande City (the anime tends to provide suitable names when needed, too), although I suppose that "Mount Lanakila Summit/Peak" suffices for now, I guess..

jombii June 8th, 2017 9:33 PM

Well, Acerola was the island captain available to sub for Nanu. Sophocles was also a likewise new captain so he couldn't leave his post.

Hikamaru June 9th, 2017 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenyx4 (Post 9673004)
Thanks to you two for the explanation! I haven't actually gotten to play through Pokémon Sun/Moonyet, so that clarification helps. Dang it, Nanu and Tapu Fini! Well, this revelation sheds a bit more light on things.. But geez, Tapu Fini, can't you give Hapu like 5 measly minutes to be thoroughly humiliated in battle again represent the pride of her island on the great summit of Alola's Mount Lanakila..? If Nanu doesn't want the job, then is Acerola getting primed to become a Kahuna or what..? (unless Acerola was just randomly available). At least Kahili serves as a suitable stand-in Trainer..

Nanu is in his Kahuna position because he couldn't refuse to turn down Tapu Bulu's offer, since the Tapus are who choose the Kahunas.

pkmin3033 June 9th, 2017 4:55 AM

I know it won't happen, but I think it'd be quite interesting if the Kahunas/E4 (I'll assume they'll be one and the same again) actually used the Tapus in their party, at least the first time around.

I wonder if the final trainer you battle will rotate again, too. If Alola has an established Pokemon League this time around (and if it does I'm putting my money on Lillie or possibly Gladion being the Champion) I suppose the Champion will be fixed, but that was a somewhat charming feature of S/M that at least provided a little variety, even if the selection of challengers wasn't ideal.

Pendraflare June 9th, 2017 6:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clbgolden (Post 9672948)
This time around, can we get a proper Victory Road, please? I know Vast Poni Canyon was kind of like a Victory Road, but it just wasn't the same.

I want a real Victory Road. One with trainers who have claimed to have spent their entire lives training for this yet only have four Pokémon, one with a good ol' rival battle at the end, and, most importantly, one that's actually before the League.

Not to mention teams with actual movesets instead of just the copy/paste level-up moves. Seriously, after Victory Road in ORAS and Vast Poni Canyon, I'm hoping this doesn't keep becoming a thing.

Salzorrah June 9th, 2017 7:05 AM

I have two lineups, depending on what USUM will ultimately end up being.

If USUM ends out being a sequel, and replaces trials with gyms:

I've picked out gym leaders mostly based on where they lived, and how likely they can become gym leaders.

Melemele Island:

1. Ilima - Hau'oli City (pretty much the only choice, Hau could come close second)

Akala Island:

2. Kahili - Heahea City (Hano Grand Resort is close to Heahea, and she is the owner's daughter)
3. Kiawe - Royal Avenue (Wela Volcano Park, and Paniola Town, where he lives is near to Royal Avenue)
4. Lana - Konikoni City (I feel like Lana is more sensible to be a gym leader because it's a port town)

Ula'ula Island

5. Plumeria - Malie City (I'm not sure on this one, idk who to put here tbh, maybe Nanu? But I think since Plumeria has reformed as well, she would fit well as gym leader)
6. Molayne - Hokulani Observatory - (I feel Sophocles would be more sidelined and focus more on Festival Plaza or something)
7. Guzma - Po Town/Route 15 (I imagine Po Town to be reformed and Guzma reforms as well, however Route 15 is a good place because there's also that empty space)

Poni Island

8. Hapu - Seafolk Village (another obvious one)

Elite Four

Mallow - I think of her as the second strongest in Akala after Olivia so :x
Olivia
Acerola
Hau - I think Hau would become E4 in USUM tbh, taking up the place old Hala once took.

Champion - The player in Sun and Moon - I don't think anyone has beaten them and it would be an interesting twist to fight yourself imo.

However if it's an alternate universe, I feel like trials would be there instead of gyms, in which case:

Melemele Island:

Captain Hau
Kahuna Hapu

Akala Island:

Captain Lana
Captain Kiawe
Captain Kahili
Kahuna Acerola

Ula'ula Island:

Captain Molayne
Captain Guzma
Kahuna Sophocles

Poni Island:

Captain Plumeria
Captain Faba
Kahuna Olivia

Hear me out, I think that with it being an alternate universe, a lot of things we knew would probably be vastly different, especially where are the people located, and what are they doing. That's just me though, but I stand by with my first lineup haha

Hikamaru June 9th, 2017 8:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salzorrah (Post 9673536)
However if it's an alternate universe, I feel like trials would be there instead of gyms, in which case:

Melemele Island:

Captain Hau
Kahuna Hapu

Akala Island:

Captain Lana
Captain Kiawe
Captain Kahili
Kahuna Acerola

Ula'ula Island:

Captain Molayne
Captain Guzma
Kahuna Sophocles

Poni Island:

Captain Plumeria
Captain Faba
Kahuna Olivia

Hear me out, I think that with it being an alternate universe, a lot of things we knew would probably be vastly different, especially where are the people located, and what are they doing. That's just me though, but I stand by with my first lineup haha

I have some huge gripes with this list. First, Trial Captains are meant to be aged under 20 since one of Mallow's Moon-exclusive dialogue mentions that Trial Captains have to retire when they turn 20 so that Trials can be kept fresh. Kahili, Guzma, Molayne (who happens to be an ex-TC himself), Plumeria and Faba are all much older than 20.

I'd rather have new younger characters step in those roles instead. Sophocles becoming Kahuna would be awesome though.

fenyx4 June 9th, 2017 4:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Home (Post 9673077)
Well, Acerola was the island captain available to sub for Nanu. Sophocles was also a likewise new captain so he couldn't leave his post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hikamaru (Post 9673324)
Nanu is in his Kahuna position because he couldn't refuse to turn down Tapu Bulu's offer, since the Tapus are who choose the Kahunas.

So - Today, I Learned that it's the Tapus' fault(s) for messing everything up! -.-


Thanks to both of you for clarifying! Alola's lore seems interesting but unwieldy.. Yeesh, the mere act of forming/having an Alolan Elite 4 seems like more trouble than it's worth, given all of these restrictions and the Tapus' perceived interference (Alolan people may not see them as interfering, but I sure do.. @[email protected]) And Nanu must be miserable..

I would prefer Alola's Elite 4 to be 4 not-seen-before Pokémon Trainers (and the proto-Champion/Champion being someone that the player has interacted with before, as is tradition - although as a side-note, it would be a neat twist for a region to have a Champion that the player hasn't interacted with before, with an Elite 4 that the player has interacted with before but not in League-battle capacities). However, that Elite 4 implementation may or not clash with the concept of Alola's League being a nascent one.

In any case, I don't know why Kukui even bothered to make a separate "Elite 4"; just add 1 more Trial Captain (maybe Ryuki or Kahili or some new Ice-type user. Alternatively, just keep 7 Trial Captains and plop Ryuki/Kahili as a Battle Tree facility head) and you have a group of Trainers that can serve double-duty as League heads - 8 Trial Captains as 8 Gym Leaders, and 4 Island Kahunas as the Elite 4. You also have a unique interesting League arrangement for variety (For each of the 4 islands: 2 Gym Leaders, then 1 Elite-4 member. You might have to fudge around with levels and level scaling though - fighting someone like Sidney when you've just beaten Roxanne and Brawly would be a bit too rough..). Consequently, you match the typical number of non-Champion League heads: 12. Aside from the aforementioned leveling/scaling issue(s), though, the only other downside that I can see is that Mount Lanakila's summit would be a bit emptier if it only housed the proto-Champion/Champion...

As an aside, I find it interesting that the total number of Alola's unique Trial Captains, Island Kahunas, Elite 4 (only counting Kahili since the other 3 Elite-4 members already have active island-challenge roles) and Professor Kukui the proto-Champion, 13 altogether, matches the 13 League members typically seen in other regions (8 Gym Leaders, 4 Elite-4 members, and 1 Champion.

Also, it kind of bothers me that the amount of Trial Captains isn't evenly spread across the 4 islands of Alola.. Like Game Freak, couldn't you have made just 1 more Trial Captain to have a "2 Trial Captains and 1 Island Kahuna per island" layout..? :/. This is like the one region where we actually need the number of Trial Captains/"Gym Leaders" to be 8.. XD. The other regions could've sufficed with 7 Gym Leaders (although I'd hate to just remove a Gym Leader like that since I pretty much like all of them - then again, Kalos Gym Leader Valerie's design reminds me way too much of Hoenn Frontier Brain (Battle Pike Queen) Lucy's design, which was first, so... :x)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swagroar (Post 9673512)
Not to mention teams with actual movesets instead of just the copy/paste level-up moves. Seriously, after Victory Road in ORAS and Vast Poni Canyon, I'm hoping this doesn't keep becoming a thing.

By this statement, do you mean that the implementation is that the foe Pokémon only have the 4 most recently-learned moves from their level-up move learnset in their movesets (that one would expect them to learn at their current level. For example, maybe a Level 40 Fire-type Pokémon knowing Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Flame Charge, and Ember) rather than a competitively-geared moveset (like just 1 Fire-type offensive move and the other 3 moves being something like offensive moves covering types that Fire can't or status moves to raise the user's own stats or debilitate the foe via lowered stats or a hindering status condition?). My apologies if my inquiry doesn't make sense.. :x


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