![]() |
Competitive Pokemon Without Ice Types
Just now, a Poketuber who goes by the username False Swipe Gaming has made a video about the competitive history of Ice types and how terrible they've become over the past generations in OU.
I tend to wonder if the series is better off without Ice types as they have proven themselves to be terrible Pokémon in battle, even after the introduction to Fairy type. Buffing Ice types would go against the main theme (powerful but fragile at the same time), but we all know how much Game Freak loves to keep giving us defensive Ice types even though it never worked. That would mean removing the type altogether and retcon mono-Ice types into a different mono-type and Pokémon with Ice as a secondary type into either mono-types or replaced by a new type that thematically makes sense. And all Ice moves would be retconned to Water moves with freezing effects. The Dragon type advantage Ice has would also have to be replaced by another type to keep that type from being OP again (I would suggest Steel). I doubt Ice's absence would change the whole type balance outside of that problem because Ground types are still usually slow and have problems against Water and Grass types, Flying types have both Stealth Rock problems and Electric types to worry about, and Grass still has common weaknesses to keep most of its members from moving into OU. So, would the competitive metagame be better off without Ice types, or do you still believe the type can be salvaged into OU? |
Ice is a great offensive type that helps balance the type chart. Sure, Ice typed Pokemon are generally bad in OU sans a few such as Kyurem-B, Weavile, Ninetales etc., but Ice Beam coverage is a must have on every team due to the sheer amount of mons it can hit for super effective damage. Removing the type completely would change the landscape for worse, IMO.
Idk if anything can be done to salvage Ice typed Pokemon themselves though. An Ice typed Pokemon with Magic Guard could be cool to eliminate the severe hazard weakness, but even then unless it had a good movepool and stats to back it up, you'd be better off just slapping Ice Beam on a bulky Water. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Ayy, it's tb777
Quote:
Aside, I think you're mistaking the meaning of that post. Most likely what Zeffy meant was that super-effective moves don't always have more power than STAB moves. For example, if you have a Zapdos vs. Zapdos matchup, you would go for Thunderbolt over HP Ice since 90*1.5 = 135 > 60*2 = 120. edit: got ninja'd edit2: are we talking about ice pokes or the actual type |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Ok, I'd still be for keeping the type. Very unpredictable things would occur if the type were to be removed. |
You know what's really cool about Ice types? They get STAB on Ice moves. STAB on one of the most dangerous offesnive types. There's a lot of mon that can't switch into that.
|
This is the key bit here:
Quote:
The solution is not to eliminate the type really, just for Game Freak to stop trying to make defensive Pokemon out of what is likely the worst defensive typing in the entire game. |
Quote:
Quote:
|
The video is only a glimpse at Ice-types throughout the generations. It starts leaving out good Ice-types after the first generation. There is also no mention of the major roles Ice-types have played through various tier shifts in more modern generations (4+). One of Ice-types biggest threats is the direction of tiering decisions and not necessarily wrongly so.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
Quote:
Starting with Gen 2, there isn't any mention of Jynx. It's not an A-list threat, but it's extremely potent in the right hands. This is the bulkiest generation, so even things like Gengar and Jynx can sustain repeated hits with thoughtful play and many of the standard builds have very little answer for this if any kind of breakdown occurs. I think you would be surprised to see just what Jynx can get through in Gen 2. For Gen 3, I think it's generally mischaracterized in the video. Regice is a really unique cover for certain squads, particularly offensive squads. It can tank damage from a wide variety of things. To frame it, since Dugtrio is a popular concept in the modern game, in ADV with Adamant CB it's barely getting a 2HKO on Regice (and reference that Jolly is the most common nature). It can cut off the bleeding of CM teams with Psych Up, or even be a pivot with a powerful Explosion. Cloyster isn't mentioned, which is unique for being the best Spikes user not trapped by Magneton. Selling it off as only being good because of it's access to Spikes and defense is selling it short since Gengar can't switch in more than once to block Rapid Spin and it also has a powerful Explosion. And then you have the forgotten Articuno, which admittedly lost some luster with CM spam teams and probably more importantly, the Sleep Talk mechanic fix, but it has some capacity beyond Zapdos for fitting niche roles in certain teams. For Gen 4, Ice gained so many tools. Yes, Stealth Rock did away with the pre-existing Ice-types, but Abomasnow's impact is largely understated (especially in a historical context). Quite a few eras of DPP were dominated by Hail teams (to an overwhelming extent in UU, but also in OU at different points). Abomasnow's value isn't purely as a one-on-one staller with Leech Seed and attacks. As is the nature with DPP, it's quickly met with resistance. Abomasnow is one of the best 'chippers' in the game. Hail is the greatest asset of them all because it will inflict residual on essentially everything and extend its life with Seed. These teams lean on strong spinning and prediction. I would say it works well for both offense and defense, and this was really apparent in some of the suspect test eras (Abomasnow and Hail teams in general were one of the major centralizing forces in Garchomp era DP, Latios and Manaphy tests in DPP). In Gen 5, Hail had dominance at different points because of how centralizing Rain was on the metagame. Perhaps the most surefire way to defeat Rain in BW was Hail. Even looking outside of Abomasnow and Hail, Weavile is represented in the video as if it was taking a nap this generation. Weavile was a key piece in two of my prolific Sun squads. It was punishing to the popular Gliscor-Ferrothorn-Jellicent cores that Spikes-stacked and played the Magic Guard game with Alakazam or Reuniclus. With the post-generational tiering change that brought Excadrill back, it greatly affected the viability of every Ice-type, maybe with the exception of Mamoswine since that was relegated to a particular style of team. This is why I said Ice-types have been greatly impacted by tiering decisions. Minus the Snow Cloak / Froslass ban in DPP, none of the decisions directly implicated Ice mons in anything. However, at almost every stop, they were major players in the balance and health of those metagames prior to the format adjustments. So no, I don't think Ice-types are garbage or useless. As with more than half of the types in the game, they are only going to see moderate usage because the majority of them aren't going to be dominating standard OU. And that's perfectly fine. |
Totally wrong to say Ice types are terrible given the massive impact they've had on virtually every metagame this generation (and every generation). Yes it's a truly atrocious defensive typing, but Ice types have many tools that make them viable. Weavile, Kyurem-B and Mamoswine, while not fantastic in OU, are viable there. Ninetales-A is a fantastic threat that is both metagame defining in its niche of Snow Warning + Aurora Veil and also a huge anti-metagame threat in its ability to maul Pelipper and all of its friends. It can set up a truly devastating sweep for even the most frail teammates.
Further down in the lower tiers, we have seen the havoc Aurora Veil has unleashed. With 3 viable hail setters in NU, Cryogonal and Sandslash-A were becoming truly broken in their ability to set up teammates like Vivillon and Virizion for easy sweeps. RU has caught onto this strategy and it won't be long before it's deemed uncompetitive there too. If this has anything to do with the fact that the powerful Ice types of RBY OU are all bad (with the exception of Cloyster) then that's quite silly. There are viable Ice types in every tier. |
Well you can use quite a few Pokemon in OU for example Weavile, Mamo, Alolan Ninetales and Kyurem-B, or if you want you can even go with Abomasnow, Shell Smash Cloyster and Kyurem-C because they feel very much usable.
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
I still think your argument is quite poor. Why not make the same one about Normal types? There is 1 viable Normal typed Pokemon in OU(Lopunny) and that is because Scrappy allows it to make use of it's strong Normal typed STAB.
I'm not trying to say that is even a good argument either, just pointing out that Ice isn't the worst type out there. |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:35 AM. |
![]()
© 2002 - 2018 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com.
Pokémon characters and images belong to The Pokémon Company International and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company or The Pokémon Company International. We just love Pokémon.
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2016 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com.
PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User generated content remains the property of its creator.
Acknowledgements
Use of PokéCommunity Assets
vB Optimise by DragonByte Technologies Ltd © 2023.