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HMs - do you really want them back or should they stay gone?
Gen VII made a pretty significant change in getting rid of HMs period and bringing back on the PokeRide feature! While that may be appreciated by some, there are others that feel that tinge of missing the old way of doing things, simply because you aren't restricted by the Pokemon you're allowed to do things with and it feels more "exporation"-y (that's not a word, but regardless), for lack of a better way to put it.
Where do you fall? Would you like HMs to stay gone, or for them to make some sort of return in some form? |
I;d honestly like them to be gone forever, but instead of getting ride pokemon, we have to catch the pokemon we can ride.
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As fun as the PokeRide system was, I think Gen 5 actually did HMs the best. You were never actually required to use them during the main story, but you could find hidden areas and dropped items when you did. I've never been a big fan of the artificial barriers, so seeing areas where PokeRide was required to progress was actually a step back in my eyes, even though it didn't waste up a move slot any more.
I think there could be some balance, though. As goofy as the secret techniques are in LGPE, I would love being able to use my own Pokemon for these purposes, without wasting one of my four moves. |
I would like them to stay gone. HMs like Cut and Rock Smash were just plain illogical as in a real situation i could simply walk over/around the blocking object. Also how I could apparently fly around on a Pidgey or surf on a Luvdisc?
I like the assigned Pokémon chosen for each HM job they fulfil in the PokéRide system. It works, it's efficient and makes sense logistically. |
i liked that hms are mostly gone in gen 7 but something that would be cooler is to have a pokemon of mine do hm obstacles. pokeride is fine i guess. just didn't like that i feel like im riding on a pokemon thats specifically there just to be a ride pokemon (i dislike hm slaves)
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HMs are a dated gaming mechanic that vanished 4 generations too late.
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I'm in the same boat that they should pretty much stay gone. I'm honestly exhausted of carrying one team member for the specific purpose of just traversing just about anywhere; it really does feel like I'm limited to five Pokemon in a team and not six. While PokeRide can definitely be improved upon to become more exciting (like riding your own Pokemon instead of a predetermined list), I'd argue it's the more modern way of going about exploration than HMs will ever be.
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I would like them gone, but replaced by something better that PokéRide. With HM it felt like my own team is helping me on the journey, while PokéRide felt more like I borrowed someone else's Pokémon to help me on my journey. Like others said, letting your own Pokémon to deal with obstacles without the HM move would be the best solution for this problem.
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If HMs return, I want to see them explicitly stated on the game box which HMs are absolutely required for the main story, so that people can actually plan their team around them or use a HM slave.
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I strongly dislike HM's. They can work great for revisiting areas and accessing new items in places such as caves, but I find they restrict move-sets so heavily near the end, especially when a new move wants to be learned late level, then you have to give up a decent move because "Cut can't be forgotten".
I could rant longer about the Water HM's. Gen 2 and 3 being the worse before the physical/special split. Surf, Waterfall, Dive and Whirlpool, which all pretty much do the same thing, just some being less powerful. Generally choosing the water type starter, I would end up catching a second water type so I could dump the other HM's on. Which also means depositing something in my party and missing out on levels. In Gen 3, if I remember correctly, had pretty much required almost every HM in Victory Road. |
Honestly, I think a move to cut a tree is illogical. There are so many other moves that can get rid of a tree. Flamethrower, Smart Strike, Guillotine, and basically a million others. HMs should be removed.
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Really they are stupid. ANY Pokemon that is a water type should be able to surf for example
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I don't want them back as they were, though I want to have locked-off paths and additional secret areas like those that usually were HM-dependant. Basically, I'd like if there was to acquire the ability to use a certain move in the overworld (tied to a certain badge would be great), but without the requirement of teaching it, so that simply having a pokémon able to learn that move in the party is enough to make use that field move, even if it's not in the pokémon's current moveset. So you'd still have to go further with the plot in order to reach more areas, but the concept of having an HM slave would be gone for good.
And as for Fly, I would actually like if the region is built with some kind of transportation system in it which is used instead. |
Please keep them away.
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I do think HMs should return. They help with managing moves in a better fashion. Just keep Whirlpool, Rock Smash, Flash, and Defog away from the HM zone. Though I do like the idea that Let's Go brought with certain Pokemon allowing to ride on water or on the air.
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I'm glad they're gone. They aren't necessary as has been proven in the newer games, and the are mostly a burden in older games unless they are decent moves like Surf.
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They should stay gone. It's not fun to have Pokemon in your party just to use field moves.
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Removing HMs was one of my favorite features in gen 7. In my opinion, they did a pretty damn good job with that. They should have been removed way back in gen 5 when TMs were given infinite use.
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No need for them to return. However I feel the current manner of implementation can still use some tweaking. Pokeride forces you to hire some Pokemon you don't have which is odd - an option to replace them with something of your choosing. LPGE meanwhile was not very quick in using them - had to navigate to the interact screen and then select the move - no quick-start button! And some of the new takes were odd (and the whole 'woah your pokemon wants to do that move? Isn't that amazing!?' deal was weird and repetitive).
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They should stay gone forever, I never really liked wasting one of my party slots for hm slaves.
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Part of my strategy behind team building has always been building teams around HM moves that doesn't incorporate the use of an HM slave, and I always found that aspect kind of fun.
"What Team composition will cover every type weakness and also cover every HM move needed for this game?" That said, I'm in a mixed bag on this. Ride Pokemon you call on like an Uber kind of took the fun out of exploring, so doing away with HMs is fine but you should still be able to ride more than the very select few -- looking at you LGPE, I was really looking forward to lounge surfing on Snorlax belly, not grasping onto it's stomach like a baby gorilla. Give me more ride Pokemon and I'm down for the removal of HMs. |
I'm doing a run in X currently, taught my Talonflame Fly, and wanted to replace it with another move soon after, only to find out I couldn't. I was confused for a moment, and then realized how accustomed to the ride system I have become.
While I want HM's to stay gone, I do think the ride system needs some tweaking. One aspect I prefer about the HM system i that it is more realistic, seeing as you actually own the pokémon used. In this aspect, I think the ride system is not very neatly executed as it appears to be using some kind of magic. It's more convenient, but to me it doesn't add up to the experience. I do love riding pokémon though - I just mean that ideally, I would want to ride my own pokémon. I'm secretly hoping that instead of following pokémon, we get the option to ride our own pokémon - so long as they are physically capable of doing so, of course. I get that this chance is very small considering the huge amount, but one can dream. |
Let them stay dead as a dated mechanism built to enforce artificial roadblocks that make no sense why cant i move past a 4 foot tree because I lack a certain HM when I have a blaziken that can just burn it down for me???? Just slide me the Surf/Waterfall TMs around gym 5 and we're good
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I don't really see much need for them these days, there are much better ways of halting players from progressing in a certain direction (story reasons etc.). Ride Pokémon were fine, but I wouldn't mind too much if Gen 7 got rid of those too.
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When Generation V made TMs infinite use, the point of HMs was pretty much lost. They might as well have been regular TMs at that point - it wasn't even possible to get stuck because you traded away your only user of a certain HM. And then Gen VII made it so you don't need HM slaves at all. Good move - not only do you no longer need slaves, it also removes the almost mandatory requirement for Flying and Water types in your party. They should have the HM abilities unlock when the trainer has a certain number of gym badges, that way the blockades could still exist earlier in the game. Surf, Fly and Waterfall are decent moves, and Strength isn't too bad, but Cut and Rock Smash are definitely slot wasters later in the game due to low damage output, and Defog and Flash are basically useless in battle.
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^Defog useless? Somebody likes their hazards around...
on a more serious note, HMs need to do one of two things. Either stay gone forever and for good*, or become properly deletable like many, many ROMhacks make them. While I'm not opposed to using a HM slave it always stings in my heart when I have to drop a valuable and powerful team member just so that I can progress through a cave because somebody put two rocks in my way >_> *alternatively, just create a group of Key Items that retains the same effects without wasting a valuable move slot. Why can't we have an inflatable kajak or something to travel across Water routes or a grappling hook to pull Strength stones out of my way? Items like those would definitely make me feel more like actually being on an adventure with my pokemon instead of an assisted excursion with so-called friends that become obsolete at one point or another >_> |
There some HMs that are more handful than good (Defog, Surf and Waterfall) and some are just plain awful also stick like a glue unless you talk to move remover. I prefer they are gone since some are essential and some arent, what I really mean if HM are merely just for shortcuts and other are for storyline progressions.
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I like the idea of Rider Pokémon, as opposed to HMs being unforgetable moves till you find someone who, i presume, hypnotises your pokémon into forgetting.
Though, i'm not opposed to Field Items. (surfboard, diving gear, sickle, flashlight, pickaxe, rock climber's kit, Strong Glove) to do the HM stuff. |
Not only should they stay gone, but if they ever re-release any of the older games on newer platforms, they should make items or something that replace HMs. And while they're at it, make TMs reusable xD.
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HMs should stay gone. They limited team building and forced players to use designated "HM Slaves", especially in Hoenn and Sinnoh which were heavily HM reliant. Removing HMs was one of my favorite things about Sun & Moon.
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They should take the gen 5 approach for them: not required but still there. HMs are, in the end, just roadblocks, and people hate those. Removing necessary HMs removes all those roadblocks--they only provide extra exploration and as a bonus rewards players who are keeping HMs on their party by allowing them to explore more as they go along without having to backtrack later. It's essentially the best of both worlds, taking the good of the PokéRide system (in that you don't need HMs) and the good of the HM system (in that you're using your own Pokémon and not some creepy rented Machamp who princess-carries you around).
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i'm with rivvon on this. i don't mind them for exploration in optional areas and while they are annoying, i think there are better ways to have a roadblock or something to keep the player from advancing than HMs. they've proved they're capable of that. just have HMs be a thing, but not something you have to force on your main party members and be unable to delete. better yet -- now that TMs and HMs are both able to be used more than once, why even have HMs be undeletable? just let the move function as it should in the field, but retain the normal qualities of a move and be able to be deleted. i know this bumps into the 'what if you get stuck somewhere that requires HMs' and with gen 7 allotting for pokemon to be swapped upon catching a new pokemon while with a full party, that poses a problem. instead of saying you can't delete the move, why not just like. you can't transfer a pokemon with an HM. i know that will raise its own problems though but lol. i'll take that over being stuck with something that has flash until i can reach a move deleter near the end of the game.
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HMs are an archaic and unnecessary mechanic that should have been put away a long time ago. Glad they’re gone, hope to never see them again.
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I like looking at HMs from a story point instead of a technical one. When playing the game, having the members of a team be important in certain battle scenarios is one thing. Another thing is that they also need to fullfil a role during world traversion.
There's one thing that I liked in older RPGs. It's something, that unfortunately stopped being relevant a while ago due to streamlining and stuff. Assume that you play an RPG and you hit a road block. You explore a bit, get further in the story, etc. At some point a new party member joins. The catch is: that party member has an ability that you can use to get past the road block. This ability is only his, so you will never find any other character that can help you in those situations. It makes him unique, gives him purpose beyond the battlefield. HMs are kinda the same. You try to build a diverse team that can get you through different situations. But battles are not your only enemy. The land itself challenges you with its road blocks, but that's ok. Your team got you covered. But they're not perfect. Having a way to deal with the world, comes at the cost of a moveslot. Suddenly, your options are limited and you're forced to make plans as you can't get another op move on one of your team members. Your creativity is challenged by the limits of the game. But in return your Pokemon got a unique role and therefor becomes unique in the story that plays out in front of you. When they got rid of HMs, they also got rid of the one thing that allowed your party to interact with the world you're traversing. I don't mind them existing, though it would be cool to see them back, but a lot more diverse. Do we really need 3 HM moves that are Water-Type based in one and the same game? |
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i would say abolish the move deleter entirely, but i think it would still have its uses, even if you can delete HMs yourself. but at least make them appear earlier in the game and/or more frequently. maybe like the eevee/pikachu move tutor in LGPE. just have one stationed in every pokemon center. this got long, my bad. lol |
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