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-   -   HMs - do you really want them back or should they stay gone? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=418307)

colours February 20th, 2019 6:45 PM

HMs - do you really want them back or should they stay gone?
 
Gen VII made a pretty significant change in getting rid of HMs period and bringing back on the PokeRide feature! While that may be appreciated by some, there are others that feel that tinge of missing the old way of doing things, simply because you aren't restricted by the Pokemon you're allowed to do things with and it feels more "exporation"-y (that's not a word, but regardless), for lack of a better way to put it.

Where do you fall? Would you like HMs to stay gone, or for them to make some sort of return in some form?

w1f1pa55w0rd February 20th, 2019 6:53 PM

I;d honestly like them to be gone forever, but instead of getting ride pokemon, we have to catch the pokemon we can ride.

Brendino February 20th, 2019 7:17 PM

As fun as the PokeRide system was, I think Gen 5 actually did HMs the best. You were never actually required to use them during the main story, but you could find hidden areas and dropped items when you did. I've never been a big fan of the artificial barriers, so seeing areas where PokeRide was required to progress was actually a step back in my eyes, even though it didn't waste up a move slot any more.

I think there could be some balance, though. As goofy as the secret techniques are in LGPE, I would love being able to use my own Pokemon for these purposes, without wasting one of my four moves.

Yue Han February 20th, 2019 9:19 PM

I would like them to stay gone. HMs like Cut and Rock Smash were just plain illogical as in a real situation i could simply walk over/around the blocking object. Also how I could apparently fly around on a Pidgey or surf on a Luvdisc?

I like the assigned Pokémon chosen for each HM job they fulfil in the PokéRide system. It works, it's efficient and makes sense logistically.

Percy February 20th, 2019 11:19 PM

i liked that hms are mostly gone in gen 7 but something that would be cooler is to have a pokemon of mine do hm obstacles. pokeride is fine i guess. just didn't like that i feel like im riding on a pokemon thats specifically there just to be a ride pokemon (i dislike hm slaves)

AveeVaporGlitch February 20th, 2019 11:27 PM

HMs are a dated gaming mechanic that vanished 4 generations too late.

colours February 21st, 2019 3:30 AM

I'm in the same boat that they should pretty much stay gone. I'm honestly exhausted of carrying one team member for the specific purpose of just traversing just about anywhere; it really does feel like I'm limited to five Pokemon in a team and not six. While PokeRide can definitely be improved upon to become more exciting (like riding your own Pokemon instead of a predetermined list), I'd argue it's the more modern way of going about exploration than HMs will ever be.

Janp February 21st, 2019 6:44 AM

I would like them gone, but replaced by something better that PokéRide. With HM it felt like my own team is helping me on the journey, while PokéRide felt more like I borrowed someone else's Pokémon to help me on my journey. Like others said, letting your own Pokémon to deal with obstacles without the HM move would be the best solution for this problem.

Reyzadren February 22nd, 2019 1:31 AM

If HMs return, I want to see them explicitly stated on the game box which HMs are absolutely required for the main story, so that people can actually plan their team around them or use a HM slave.

ZeoStar February 22nd, 2019 4:16 AM

I strongly dislike HM's. They can work great for revisiting areas and accessing new items in places such as caves, but I find they restrict move-sets so heavily near the end, especially when a new move wants to be learned late level, then you have to give up a decent move because "Cut can't be forgotten".

I could rant longer about the Water HM's. Gen 2 and 3 being the worse before the physical/special split. Surf, Waterfall, Dive and Whirlpool, which all pretty much do the same thing, just some being less powerful. Generally choosing the water type starter, I would end up catching a second water type so I could dump the other HM's on. Which also means depositing something in my party and missing out on levels. In Gen 3, if I remember correctly, had pretty much required almost every HM in Victory Road.

w1f1pa55w0rd February 22nd, 2019 6:32 AM

Honestly, I think a move to cut a tree is illogical. There are so many other moves that can get rid of a tree. Flamethrower, Smart Strike, Guillotine, and basically a million others. HMs should be removed.

AveeVaporGlitch February 22nd, 2019 6:52 AM

Really they are stupid. ANY Pokemon that is a water type should be able to surf for example

lilaë21 February 22nd, 2019 7:02 AM

I don't want them back as they were, though I want to have locked-off paths and additional secret areas like those that usually were HM-dependant. Basically, I'd like if there was to acquire the ability to use a certain move in the overworld (tied to a certain badge would be great), but without the requirement of teaching it, so that simply having a pokémon able to learn that move in the party is enough to make use that field move, even if it's not in the pokémon's current moveset. So you'd still have to go further with the plot in order to reach more areas, but the concept of having an HM slave would be gone for good.

And as for Fly, I would actually like if the region is built with some kind of transportation system in it which is used instead.

Sheep February 22nd, 2019 8:57 AM

Please keep them away.

Quote:

Basically, I'd like if there was to acquire the ability to use a certain move in the overworld (tied to a certain badge would be great), but without the requirement of teaching it, so that simply having a pokémon able to learn that move in the party is enough to make use that field move, even if it's not in the pokémon's current moveset.
Something like this would be neat! Wasting a move or even party member slot on HMs has always been one of my least favorite aspects of the games.

DrawnToast February 23rd, 2019 11:01 AM

I do think HMs should return. They help with managing moves in a better fashion. Just keep Whirlpool, Rock Smash, Flash, and Defog away from the HM zone. Though I do like the idea that Let's Go brought with certain Pokemon allowing to ride on water or on the air.

Fritz February 23rd, 2019 11:49 AM

I'm glad they're gone. They aren't necessary as has been proven in the newer games, and the are mostly a burden in older games unless they are decent moves like Surf.

RileyXY1 February 23rd, 2019 1:58 PM

They should stay gone. It's not fun to have Pokemon in your party just to use field moves.

Sorvete February 24th, 2019 3:59 AM

Removing HMs was one of my favorite features in gen 7. In my opinion, they did a pretty damn good job with that. They should have been removed way back in gen 5 when TMs were given infinite use.

bobandbill February 24th, 2019 6:01 AM

No need for them to return. However I feel the current manner of implementation can still use some tweaking. Pokeride forces you to hire some Pokemon you don't have which is odd - an option to replace them with something of your choosing. LPGE meanwhile was not very quick in using them - had to navigate to the interact screen and then select the move - no quick-start button! And some of the new takes were odd (and the whole 'woah your pokemon wants to do that move? Isn't that amazing!?' deal was weird and repetitive).

DarkWitch March 10th, 2019 1:06 AM

They should stay gone forever, I never really liked wasting one of my party slots for hm slaves.

Pig March 10th, 2019 2:55 AM

Part of my strategy behind team building has always been building teams around HM moves that doesn't incorporate the use of an HM slave, and I always found that aspect kind of fun.

"What Team composition will cover every type weakness and also cover every HM move needed for this game?"

That said, I'm in a mixed bag on this. Ride Pokemon you call on like an Uber kind of took the fun out of exploring, so doing away with HMs is fine but you should still be able to ride more than the very select few -- looking at you LGPE, I was really looking forward to lounge surfing on Snorlax belly, not grasping onto it's stomach like a baby gorilla. Give me more ride Pokemon and I'm down for the removal of HMs.

Count March 10th, 2019 4:07 AM

I'm doing a run in X currently, taught my Talonflame Fly, and wanted to replace it with another move soon after, only to find out I couldn't. I was confused for a moment, and then realized how accustomed to the ride system I have become.

While I want HM's to stay gone, I do think the ride system needs some tweaking. One aspect I prefer about the HM system i that it is more realistic, seeing as you actually own the pokémon used. In this aspect, I think the ride system is not very neatly executed as it appears to be using some kind of magic. It's more convenient, but to me it doesn't add up to the experience. I do love riding pokémon though - I just mean that ideally, I would want to ride my own pokémon. I'm secretly hoping that instead of following pokémon, we get the option to ride our own pokémon - so long as they are physically capable of doing so, of course. I get that this chance is very small considering the huge amount, but one can dream.

Noir April 3rd, 2019 12:37 PM

Let them stay dead as a dated mechanism built to enforce artificial roadblocks that make no sense why cant i move past a 4 foot tree because I lack a certain HM when I have a blaziken that can just burn it down for me???? Just slide me the Surf/Waterfall TMs around gym 5 and we're good

skyluigi2 April 4th, 2019 11:16 AM

I don't really see much need for them these days, there are much better ways of halting players from progressing in a certain direction (story reasons etc.). Ride Pokémon were fine, but I wouldn't mind too much if Gen 7 got rid of those too.

Digifiend April 14th, 2019 4:37 PM

When Generation V made TMs infinite use, the point of HMs was pretty much lost. They might as well have been regular TMs at that point - it wasn't even possible to get stuck because you traded away your only user of a certain HM. And then Gen VII made it so you don't need HM slaves at all. Good move - not only do you no longer need slaves, it also removes the almost mandatory requirement for Flying and Water types in your party. They should have the HM abilities unlock when the trainer has a certain number of gym badges, that way the blockades could still exist earlier in the game. Surf, Fly and Waterfall are decent moves, and Strength isn't too bad, but Cut and Rock Smash are definitely slot wasters later in the game due to low damage output, and Defog and Flash are basically useless in battle.


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