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gimmepie March 11th, 2020 7:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivysaur (Post 10134901)
Snip

There are people who think Biden is conservative? He's maybe slightly right of centre in some of his economics from what I know, but seems mostly slightly left of centre over all. Anyone in their right mind would take him over Trump. The problem with Biden isn't that he's horrible, aside from the inability to speak coherently, it's that he's going to get the US back to where it was pre-Trump... which was still bad. Better than now, but not nearly as good as what candidates like Bernie or Warren had planned. It's still a dramatic improvement over Trump, but I can very much understand why people are displeased with him.

Grand-Donut March 12th, 2020 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimmepie (Post 10134967)
There are people who think Biden is conservative? He's maybe slightly right of centre in some of his economics from what I know, but seems mostly slightly left of centre over all. Anyone in their right mind would take him over Trump. The problem with Biden isn't that he's horrible, aside from the inability to speak coherently, it's that he's going to get the US back to where it was pre-Trump... which was still bad.

The United States is unique for a developed Western nation in that its politics skew VERY conservative, so even "center" in the U.S. would be considered VEEEERY right in developed European nations. In that respect, Biden is indeed conservative.

I lament that young voters did not come out to vote in drastic numbers in the primaries. We really needed an explosive progressive push, but the latest state primary results are showing that the older voters are overwhelmingly delivering the Democratic nomination to Biden, with dismal youth turnout at something like 13-15%. This is so beyond disappointing; less than 2 out of every 10 young eligible voter (and by young, most polls consider that 35 and under lol) actually voted in the primaries.

gimmepie March 12th, 2020 1:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grand-Donut (Post 10135450)
The United States is unique for a developed Western nation in that its politics skew VERY conservative, so even "center" in the U.S. would be considered VEEEERY right in developed European nations. In that respect, Biden is indeed conservative.

I lament that young voters did not come out to vote in drastic numbers in the primaries. We really needed an explosive progressive push, but the latest state primary results are showing that the older voters are overwhelmingly delivering the Democratic nomination to Biden, with dismal youth turnout at something like 13-15%. This is so beyond disappointing; less than 2 out of every 10 young eligible voter (and by young, most polls consider that 35 and under lol) actually voted in the primaries.

Speaking as someone who is both extremely liberal and not from the US, Biden is not particularly conservative. He's quite liberal by US standards but is objectively centrist.

Grand-Donut March 12th, 2020 1:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimmepie (Post 10135466)
Speaking as someone who is both extremely liberal and not from the US, Biden is not particularly conservative. He's quite liberal by US standards but is objectively centrist.

Okay, maybe I jumped the gun when I added the modifier "VEEEERY," but he certainly is conservative rather than centrist by non-US standards. Here are some of his policy positions:

https://www.politico.com/2020-election/candidates-views-on-the-issues/joe-biden/

- College, only 2 years should be free, rather than free upper education (technically not free, but paid for by taxes) provided in many European nations

- Health care, build on top of Obamacare, rather than Medicare for All or a public option, that many European nations have

- Marijuana, let states decide, rather than federally decriminalizing it

- Military, will boost spending even further

- Corporate taxes, raise them, but still to levels lower than pre-2017 levels

Not many centrists (if any) in a developed European nation would propose completely privatizing healthcare (which is what Biden will continue to do by not supporting Medicare for all nor providing a public option), among other things. That alone, makes him quite conservative compared to many European nations, despite being centrist in the U.S.

gimmepie March 12th, 2020 2:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grand-Donut (Post 10135472)
Okay, maybe I jumped the gun when I added the modifier "VEEEERY," but he certainly is conservative rather than centrist by non-US standards. Here are some of his policy positions:

https://www.politico.com/2020-election/candidates-views-on-the-issues/joe-biden/

- College, only 2 years should be free, rather than free upper education (technically not free, but paid for by taxes) provided in many European nations

- Health care, build on top of Obamacare, rather than Medicare for All or a public option, that many European nations have

- Marijuana, let states decide, rather than federally decriminalizing it

- Military, will boost spending even further

- Corporate taxes, raise them, but still to levels lower than pre-2017 levels

Not many centrists (if any) in a developed European nation would propose completely privatizing healthcare (which is what Biden will continue to do by not supporting Medicare for all nor providing a public option), among other things. That alone, makes him quite conservative compared to many European nations, despite being centrist in the U.S.

You're failing to account for Europe being very far left on average. I wish we could objectively judge by that standard, but the reality is that on the political scale, Biden is slightly left of centre. That's not conservative, it's just more conservative than the ideal that parts of Europe have.

Nah March 13th, 2020 5:26 AM

regardless of what label we place on him, we all at least agree that he's not the president the U.S. needs right now, yes?

Nah April 8th, 2020 11:59 AM

some unfortunate but not unexpected news:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/politics/bernie-sanders-drops-out/index.html

Zero Seven April 9th, 2020 12:59 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nah (Post 10144872)

That's a shame; the establishment ran him out again. T_T Now all that is left is Joe Biden.

Has President Obama endorsed him yet? Wonder why not?

Ivysaur April 10th, 2020 6:29 AM

Obama will endorse him shortly. And while that's not the matchup any of us in this thread wanted, that's what we got. The options are Biden or Trump, and I think any person with any level of decency should know that the good thing of voting for the lesser evil is that you get less evil, which matters when human lives (and the future of the Supreme Court) are on the line.

Incidentally, I need to be "that" person and say that if Sanders was defeated by a candidate who arrived into Super Tuesday with no money at all, just because he was endorsed by the 5th and 6th placed candidates in the national polls -the former mayor of Fort Bend, Indiana, and a senator who had finished third in NH- and a failed senate candidate who had dropped out last year after failing to get any traction whatsoever, well, what can I say, other than Sanders's campaign appears to have had the consistency of wet cardboard.

Sanders failed to reassure the 66% of dem voters who liked his ideas but not his style or feared that "socialism" would doom them in the general, or to make nice with the leadership of the Democratic party so that they would not resist him. Because, well, it's hard to win a Democratic primary if you don't at least have the acquiescence -not even support- of the Democratic "establishment"- who, in the end, are millions of regular people who have spend years of their lives supporting a cause they believe in.

What could have happened had Sanders opened ways of communication with the House Leadership so Jim Clyburn hadn't endorsed Biden? Where would we be today had Sanders tried to address the 66% of the democratic base who had doubts about him, moving outside of his core followership and his go-to speeches, so they wouldn't have been willing to consolidate and give its mass support in a matter of hours as soon as anyone else appeared viable?

Finally, I think it's pretty clear there was a fatal misunderstanding of 2016. Sanders didn't sweep the Midwest and West Virginia because he was a socialist but because he was "Not Hillary Clinton". Trump won, not just because he was an outsider who promised to change the system, but because he was "Not Hillary Clinton". This year, Biden is going to run as "Not Donald Trump"- and polls show that's enough to have him lead in pretty much every swing state under the sun, including Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, North Carolina and Arizona. He's lapping Clinton in approval, credibility, "cares about people about me"- and beating Trump in every metric you can possibly poll as well. And, most importantly, he's the one expanding the electorate, drawing tens of thousands of former republicans to switch parties and vote for him in the Dem primary.

And, in an election that was won by Trump by 0.07% of the total vote last time, a rounding error, that migth be more than enough to flip it.

[This message was written by a dues-paying member of the Spanish Socialist Workers' Party who voted for the Communist Party of Spain in the last election]

Zero Seven April 10th, 2020 6:40 AM

Well, let's hope Joe Biden won't stumble over himself in his debates against Trump. He's going to need to be on his A-game; we cannot afford to lose this one. And I do agree, he's the lesser evil, which isn't saying much when you see what he's compared to.

Ivysaur April 10th, 2020 6:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Seven (Post 10145556)
Well, let's hope Joe Biden won't stumble over himself in his debates against Trump.

Have you even seen a sentence by Donald Trump? Joe Biden seems bloody William Shakespeare by comparison.

Zero Seven April 11th, 2020 1:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivysaur (Post 10145558)
Have you even seen a sentence by Donald Trump? Joe Biden seems bloody William Shakespeare by comparison.

I saw him win an election.

I want a Democrat to win, I just can't believe senile Joe Biden is our option.


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