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Edit: Oh shit double post, my bad. |
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They are unarguably concentration camps. The fact American citizens have ended up in them because they look foreign should speak volumes about what their intended purpose is. https://www.britannica.com/topic/concentration-camp |
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https://heavy.com/news/2019/07/francisco-erwin-galicia/ Quote:
Well lets look at this, they are not members of a national or minority group, they are not being confined for state security, exploitation, or punishment unless you believe being confined for immigration processing is a state security reason, which I would then ask why are they being let out after their case is processed? Persons are placed in such camps often on the basis of identification with a particular ethnic or political group rather than as individuals and without benefit either of indictment or fair trial. Again not being placed in on the basis of a particular ethnic or political group, and they are allowed the opportunity to plead their case for asylum in front of a judge. Concentration camps are to be distinguished from prisons interning persons lawfully convicted of civil crimes and from prisoner-of-war camps in which captured military personnel are held under the laws of war. They are also to be distinguished from refugee camps or detention and relocation centres for the temporary accommodation of large numbers of displaced persons. The last one, being a detention center for the temporary accommodation of large numbers of displaced persons would most likely fit the descriptions of these camps. So your link proves they are not concentration camps! |
Tbh the semantics aren’t important. Whatever we call them, the important thing is that under no circumstances are the conditions at the border acceptable, and it’s not good that the president and his administration think that they are doing a good job.
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Only they are strictly for minority groups lol. How many white Brits who overstayed their visas are in the camps? How many Canadian kids have gone missing or died in the camps? It's entirely politically motivated. Trump has ran his entire campaign on the "Mexican Terror" and these camps are a part of it. The Govt has consistently referred to the caravans or migrants themselves as a risk to national security (the wall is entirely based on this) and they are targeting people exclusively based on their ethnic appearance. There's literally no reasonable denying it. It also doesn't matter what his mother's status was or if she made an admin error, he had an American birth certificate, SSN and his lawyer provided every other document they asked for and he was still held for three weeks in squalid conditions, denied access to a phone call, denied access to sanitary facilities (this would actually be a war crime if it happened to a prisoner of war) and was underfed. The fact you defend this is honestly worrying. I'm glad you glossed over the conditions though. Those camps are not fit for humans. At all. Kids sleeping on cold concrete, overcrowded cells, masked guards, physical cages. These camps make the British concentration camps of the Boer war look tolerable. |
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https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5 Now letting the caravans in with out properly documenting each person, making sure they do not have a criminal history, making sure they are not carrying diseases is a national security risk. However that is not what is happening here is it? They are putting people in these camps, and then slowly releasing them. So again I ask, if they pose such a national security risk by letting them out at all, why are they going through the process of allowing them to apply for asylum? As for targeting people based on ethnic appearance, do you mind providing an example, as I already shot one down. Quote:
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Canadians are the biggest offenders for overstaying visa and a noted number of French and Brits routinely overstay visas as well. Yet ICE isn't stopping busses of white people to make sure none of those pesky red coats are hiding on them. Also, you cannot illegally cross a border and apply for asylum. If you are applying for asylum you are following international law and therefore your crossing of the border was legal. You would only be illegally entering the country if you failed to seek asylum and successfully entered the country off the grid. Quote:
That's a logical fallacy. The camps existing before Trump is completely irrelevant. It was wrong then, absolutely, but he has rapidly increased the scope of it. https://cmsny.org/trumps-executive-orders-immigration-refugees/ https://time.com/4473972/donald-trump-mexico-meeting-insult/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/09/trump-ice/565772/ https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/07/22/warning-new-show-me-your-papers-era-rights-advocates-vow-fight-unlawful-trump-plan https://globalnews.ca/news/4284138/separation-children-parents-us-border-permanent/ Of course, not that it matters who started it, the US has always been institutionally racist, whether it was Obama's ICE caging US citizens for years or Trump's ICE "losing" over 3,000 children. Quote:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/us-army-soldiers-migrant-detention-camp-donna-texas-a9023591.html so much so that the US army are now manning some of the camps. An army branch of a far right govt manning camps comprised entirely of minority groups. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think this happened before somewhere a few times. Tricky, it's almost like there's a repeat going on of...well.....geez...British/German/Japanese/French/Spanish/American concentration camps of olde! Quote:
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uh yeah, there were over 300,000 (that's more than Mexicans who attempted to enter the country illegally) white foreigners who overstayed their visas since Trump came into office (and we will see it increase again for 2018) and yet not a single one of them has ended up in the camps and ICE are not out there demanding to see the papers and birth certificates of whites on the street, in busses, at work etc on the off chance they're an illegal brit or canadian. Quote:
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https://www.gq.com/story/trump-detention-camps-cost they've already got plenty of money going in and still they're making kids eat frozen meals and refusing to let them wash. They've got the man power, it's walking around with guns. Quote:
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Yes it was. They aren't stop searching every car of whites they see, they are doing it to every car of "Hispanic looking people" they see. Quote:
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If these camps are part of US policy before Trump became President, to deal with a massive wave of migrants, then how can these camps be politically motivated by Trump? Quote:
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Mind you Francisco Erwin Galicia was stopped at a border patrol check point in Falfurrias, Texas, not far from the Mexican border, check points that from personal experience I can tell you, they stop every car, no matter the skin color of the driver. Quote:
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You can apply for asylum after crossing the border. So it does matter. That's how the law works. Quote:
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https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/402725-ice-detained-us-citizen-for-almost-two-years Quote:
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https://www.ssa.gov/employer/ssnv.htm companies can literally do it online it's that easy. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/cs/us/uk-birth-records?kw=birth+records&pgrid=26359860310&ptaid=kwd-15296011&s_kwcid=find+birth+records&gclid=CjwKCAjw1f_pBRAEEiwApp0JKDg7Akwbcq5T76y6ihDk9E5UlR9I-rNexceafv4Znvvi-m19RssUdhoCQ9wQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&o_xid=59287&o_lid=59287&o_sch=Paid+Search+Non+Brand Hell, regular people can check a birth certificate out. These are things that are commonly recorded. Quote:
Funny how none of these are ever coming from "John Smith" huh? Quote:
I don't think anecdotal evidence is acceptable by community standards as proof, but I can tell you that I have never once had any border agent demand my passport or any other form of ID unless I was at an airport. When we travel for work, it's only ever the engies who aren't white who get stopped and questioned, even though we're all foreign. Quote:
https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/07/1041991 |
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https://www.justice.gov/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1911-8-usc-1325-unlawful-entry-failure-depart-fleeing-immigration That's how the law works. Quote:
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Also note, that a single prisoner is housed in a Jail that has already been constructed, the US, was not ready for such an epic flood of migration, and is now forced with the task of converting facilities as quickly as possible that were not designed to hold people, into holding facilities. |
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https://www.rescue-uk.org/article/it-legal-cross-us-border-seek-asylum Quote:
Actually, immigration to the US is at a 40 year low. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44319094 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/fact-check-trump-border-crossings-declining-.html Even illegal crossings are at a relative low https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/fact-check-trump-border-crossings-declining-.html So the myth of the great border floods is entirely Trump's fault, yes, because he made it up. The only thing we have seen an increase of is children, because full families are now fleeing violence and poverty and not just young men like years gone by. Overall numbers are down. Quote:
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https://www.aclu.org/issues/immigrants-rights/immigrants-rights-and-detention/immigration-detention-conditions https://www.justia.com/immigration/deportation-removal/detention-by-ice/ ICE raids aren't happening on the border, they're happening in towns and cities. ICE doesn't just arrest kids for crossing the border and the issue of their behavior far exceeds just the kid camps. Quote:
https://www.theroot.com/u-s-government-admits-another-migrant-child-died-under-1834976658 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/migrant-girl-from-guatemala-who-died-in-us-custody-had-infection-autopsy-finds/ Due to the dreadful conditions, illness is running rampant, children are left malnourished and at risk. Children, not criminals, not adults, children. Quote:
The Govt absolutely doesn't use Ancestory.com, but my point is if Joe Average can find a legit birth certificate in 15 minutes it shouldn't take law enforcement three weeks of ignoring said documents being presented to them almost daily. Did you overlook the easy to use govt provided SSN checker? Quote:
https://www.gq.com/story/border-patrol-detained-9-year-old-american-girl https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/12/04/born-philadelphia-us-citizen-says-he-was-held-deportation-jamaica-ices-request/?utm_term=.bca1cd1505a9 https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/12/opinion/ice-raids.html You might start to see a pattern with all of these detained people, wrongly or (by law anyway) rightfully. They all share a very common trait. None of them are white. Quote:
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https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/jul/08/facts-behind-detention-immigrants/ https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/06/07/predicting-even-more-horrifying-conditions-historical-journalist-describes-parallels I mean, I don't know what else you call the items photographed here. Quote:
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The decline follows a record number of apprehensions between ports of entry in May - the highest in over a decade. It's impossible to say for certain, but US Border Patrol says it has made 688,375 southwest border apprehensions since October 2018. The previous US fiscal year there were 303,916, according to US Customs and Border Protection (CBP). The number fell dramatically in President Trump's first year but rose again last year. The number of migrants apprehended at the border surged in May to the highest level since 2006, with 132,887 detained - including 11,507 unaccompanied children. It was the first time that detentions had exceeded 100,000 since April 2007. Here are some more current articles. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/february-marked-12-year-high-for-illegal-immigration-76-000-encountered-at-southern-border https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/05/us/border-crossing-increase.html https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/record-number-undocumented-immigrants-flooded-southern-border-may-n1014186 Quote:
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1st: From a quick search, there is still no information as to why the child died, from the original reporting of the Buzzfeed article he was brought in on April 20th to the Brownsville shelter, the next morning he began showing symptoms, and was treated at a hospital, he got worse the next day and eventually died. So far there is no information on what caused his death, and how long he was in ICE custody before arriving at the shelter. Considering the rampant diseases people are showing up with when claiming asylum it is rather possible he was sick before he even came into contact with ICE. 2nd: The girl had congenital heart defects, and died after complications from surgery, I don't see how you can blame ICE for that. 3rd: The father signed a form saying the girl was in good health, although its possible that he had no idea what the form said. That being said she contracted the illness before meeting with border patrol and was rushed to the hospital when her fever was discovered. None of these seem to be the fault of ICE or Border Patrol. Quote:
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https://twitter.com/DHSgov/status/1103318241538179072 Quote:
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https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/12/557302259/sheriff-joe-arpaios-infamous-tent-city-jail-closes One is rather costly to keep up and maintain, he other isn't. Quote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/us/family-separation-migrant-children-detention.html http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/072919_phx_migrants/former-phoenix-elementary-school-transformed-into-migrant-shelter/ |
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"So that family's can stay together in a facility indefinitely" Yeah let's just lock up migrant refugee families forever because they're migrant refugees. |
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If the refugees/migrants don't want to be held at those facilities (I refuse to call them concentration camps because that's not what they are no matter how the Left tries to spin it), then perhaps they shouldn't approach the US border to begin with. I mean at this point they can't be oblivious to how they'll be treated if they try to cross into the US illegally, so I don't understand why they're putting themselves at risk. I also think it's silly for refugees/migrants to think that the US should be responsible for taking them in, as if the US is the source of all of their problems to begin with.
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In other countries, refugees are not held in border patrol facilities. |
fwiw Australia does so as well, but they’re not exactly the country to praise on migration issues
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1HK18Z |
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I also dislike the fact that Mexico just lets migrant caravans waltz right through their country without doing anything about it. They obviously have no intention of providing for the refugees themselves for an extended period of time; they'd just rather let them approach the U.S. border and hand over the problem to the United States. |
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Not going to accuse you of anything but this sounds awfully familiar to another historical "problem" group who were eventually, you know, victims of genocide. Because they were labeled a problem, instead of being treated as if they were, I dunno, people in need. The reason they come to USA instead of another country is simply that the conditions here are better, provided you can eventually work towards citizenship and find a place to live. The other latin american countries they have the "option" of going to clearly aren't that great, otherwise they'd be fleeing there. Perhaps some of them do, but the United States is clearly a popular option because it's the best option, for most. Which is unfortunate, because instead of creating an actual program that helps people attain citizenship and become active members of society, we throw them in the border facility and treat them like criminals. Quote:
Also, I'm basing this off of the conditions of US camps. Can't name too many countries that are on this level of fash just yet, but there are a few that stick out. Australia's colonizers handled its native population and its migrants horribly all throughout history, same with United States, same with etc etc. It almost seems as if countries infiltrated by colonizers who have run out the natives are generally not good at handling migrants. |
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https://www.france24.com/en/20190729-boy-8-dies-after-being-pushed-front-german-train You can find a multitude of stories like this all across Europe and America when it comes to illegal immigration. Quote:
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Not that I'm against temporary detention, as I explained earlier. I just think this particular argument is extremely disingenuous. If you're anti-immigration, that's on you, but don't use falsities or disingenuous arguments to justify your view. |
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Even if you don't like the use of the word concentration camp, you have to admit that the conditions these people are in are appalling. Testimonies from people who were forced into these places say enough, do they not? And I don't think they should be forced in indefinitely, because then it is more of a prison don't you think?
And especially with ICE actually going around to peoples houses to take them away? It's like a dystopian story but it's happening. If someone does not have their proper papers why not just help them get them and let them stay home instead of dragging them away? Especially if they have a job and family. And the crossings are happening more because of how the economy is, it really isn't anyones fault. Venezuela is in a crisis, for one, and Honduras is the most dangerous country in the Americas IIRC. |
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