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-   -   [Politics] Does This Surprise You? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=477)

DragonTrainer September 17th, 2003 4:30 PM

I don't really think they dstroyed all of their WMD.If they did, then don't you think that they have possibly made more by now?

Frostweaver September 17th, 2003 4:33 PM

if Iraq don't have any WMD to start with... then they don't have to "remove" all those large quantity of WMD. I mean it can't be that easy to hide so much WMD (if the US statistics is true which i do no believe in)

DragonTrainer September 17th, 2003 4:37 PM

If they do have WMD, they could have transferred them to a different location or hid them underground.

Frostweaver September 17th, 2003 4:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonTrainer
If they do have WMD, they could have transferred them to a different location or hid them underground.

it's rather hard to transport them around unnoticed... US got all those big satellites up there... try stargazing at night, and you'll see one of those critters in the sky once every 2 minute?

now North Korea is saying "we MAY make WMD"... well they're dooming themselves certainly as China already moved to North Korea border, and we know that US will come in and lend a help when no one asked for help. With time we'll see what N.Korea will become...

DragonTrainer September 17th, 2003 4:50 PM

Looks like Korea will pose a threat to us in a while.Man, I hope we don't have a war.

22sa September 17th, 2003 4:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostweaver
it's rather hard to transport them around unnoticed... US got all those big satellites up there... try stargazing at night, and you'll see one of those critters in the sky once every 2 minute?

now North Korea is saying "we MAY make WMD"... well they're dooming themselves certainly as China already moved to North Korea border, and we know that US will come in and lend a help when no one asked for help. With time we'll see what N.Korea will become...

Woah, China's ready to defend N. Korea? Interesting. I need to go read about N. Korea news again. >_>

DragonTrainer September 17th, 2003 4:58 PM

Looks like everyone is joining in on this war.China is a powrful country, so we'd better look out.This may be dumb to ask, but who are with the U.S.?I seem to have forgot.

22sa September 17th, 2003 5:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonTrainer
Looks like everyone is joining in on this war.China is a powrful country, so we'd better look out.This may be dumb to ask, but who are with the U.S.?I seem to have forgot.

Well if it's going to be war, South Korea and Japan will be America's allies.

Frostweaver September 17th, 2003 5:29 PM

China is not siding with North Korea... it just moved to the edge of North Korea-China border... which side china is taking on is rather a mystery. But i suspect that China is against WMD and will join the US if there's solid prove. Otherwise it'll just sit there to open fire at whoever started the war for no reason first.

*note: all words after the word "i suspect" is the personal comment of Frostweaver, not the truth. The truth is still a mystery*

DragonTrainer September 17th, 2003 5:35 PM

I think it would be dumb to side with people who are capable of causing major war and destruction.

Frostweaver September 17th, 2003 5:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonTrainer
I think it would be dumb to side with people who are capable of causing major war and destruction.

Both US and North Korea have the capability to start major wars and destruction... so isn't that a self contradiction?

DragonTrainer September 17th, 2003 5:40 PM

Looks like my own words put me down.But I think U.S. is the good guys no matter what anyone says.

DS / StarCaliber September 17th, 2003 9:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 22sa
Well if it's going to be war, South Korea and Japan will be America's allies.

Yes, both countries with a lacklustre military force.

I doubt Britain will help; the public just wouldn't accept it. Political suicide.

Gr8Person62 September 18th, 2003 1:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DS / StarCaliber
Hahaha. Okay, so debating = flaming by your logic. Like I believe that.

Let me tell you something, right. Quite a few months ago, me and Shining Arcanine (someone who I can argue with because he knows what he's talking about) would debate politics for hours. He finally convinced me I should be accepting of military action on the grounds that we both agreed Saddam was an evil guy, and there was seemingly enough evidence for the case of WMD being found there.

And why have I turned? Because I feel like I've been lied to. Bush, Blair and their cronies had my trust and they lied; thus blowing it. Why should I believe them again? They had all this "evidence" of WMD, so where are they, 140 days on?

There is a high-profile legal case going on in the UK right now named, "The Hutton Inquiry" between the BBC and the Government. The trail has revealed eMails and other such information which encouraged those who were constructing a dossier which was for the use of persuading the British people for the need for war to "sex-up" the information. As a result, the Government exaggerated the risk of terrorism and WMD; and the result is clear to see. If Iraq was so dangerous, why the need to exaggerate?

They ******** me, and I return the favour.

And Allelulia to that! Finally, someone educated enough to know the proper truth, not just what America wanted them to know. I'v been sick of all this stuff that people say, and think they're right. I'v had to live with it for 2 years now. If only everyone in the world saw things the way SC did.
Now i'm from the middle east, so believe me, I know it all. Not so much the political side, but more whats been exaggrrated, and what excuses have been made up. After the US pulled their forces from Iraq, they claimed that they found no WMD, and appologised for it. Before they went to attack, they where almost certain they had WMD. Explain that..
Most people I know would say America just wanted oil. This probably isn't all that true, but the thing is, within the war, just when they "thought" they had killed Sadam, they went to fetch themselves some oil. Now you probably where never told about this, but it actually happened. It was broadcasted on Arabic TV. With footage of it happening, so theres some proof. It's disgusting though! Couldn't have they at least waited untill they claimed the war was over?

Hmm, theres a lot to say, but most of it will probably be useless to you.

DS / StarCaliber September 18th, 2003 6:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonTrainer
Looks like my own words put me down.But I think U.S. is the good guys no matter what anyone says.

Funny, I can't think of many other countries that have killed more innocent people in foreign conflicts than the United States.

Go the good guys! -_-;

Arcanine September 18th, 2003 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gr8Person62
And Allelulia to that! Finally, someone educated enough to know the proper truth, not just what America wanted them to know. I'v been sick of all this stuff that people say, and think they're right. I'v had to live with it for 2 years now. If only everyone in the world saw things the way SC did.
over?

Why are you so dead set to think your right and every one that dont go a long with you is wrong. Always saying you only know one side. And saying if I dont go a long with you then im not educated enough to know the proper truth. You think your right on everything you say.

22sa September 18th, 2003 1:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanine
Why are you so dead set to think your right and every one that dont go a long with you is wrong. Always saying you only know one side. And saying if I dont go a long with you then im not educated enough to know the proper truth. You think your right on everything you say.

That's true, I went on like that in an WWII thread at PIO 2 month ago and the others participating got mad:knockedou:laugh::P

Frostweaver September 18th, 2003 1:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gr8Person62
And Allelulia to that! Finally, someone educated enough to know the proper truth, not just what America wanted them to know. I'v been sick of all this stuff that people say, and think they're right. I'v had to live with it for 2 years now. If only everyone in the world saw things the way SC did.
Now i'm from the middle east, so believe me, I know it all. Not so much the political side, but more whats been exaggrrated, and what excuses have been made up. After the US pulled their forces from Iraq, they claimed that they found no WMD, and appologised for it. Before they went to attack, they where almost certain they had WMD. Explain that..
Most people I know would say America just wanted oil. This probably isn't all that true, but the thing is, within the war, just when they "thought" they had killed Sadam, they went to fetch themselves some oil. Now you probably where never told about this, but it actually happened. It was broadcasted on Arabic TV. With footage of it happening, so theres some proof. It's disgusting though! Couldn't have they at least waited untill they claimed the war was over?

Hmm, theres a lot to say, but most of it will probably be useless to you.


now don't become Bush yourself... "You either go my way or the highway" (bush quote) and the other one of "i am right" thinking from bush is "you are either siding with us or the terrorist"... bush is trying to force countries to take a side or something? there's a grey area in everything you know...

now i also believed that Bush lied to us about WMD. But we can always put our heated emotions (hatred) towards Bush into nicer words. Just because Bush did all these "terrible stuff" to you, that doesn't mean you have to lose your temper... calm down first, then post again. This is how all those flame war begins in political threads. Let's not let this topic be closed down again for the 2nd time. Kairi is nice enough to reopen it before...

DragonTrainer September 18th, 2003 5:46 PM

Well, they may have killed other people, but they are the ones who bombed us and have made many terrorist attacks.We are just trying to make the world safer.

John Denver September 18th, 2003 5:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonTrainer
Well, they may have killed other people, but they are the ones who bombed us and have made many terrorist attacks.We are just trying to make the world safer.

I'm pretty sure they were planes...

Frostweaver September 18th, 2003 5:58 PM

Terrorists need to be arrested (not destroyed... they're still human in the end) and that's facts. But what tells us that the Iraqis are the terrorist, or are related to terrorists? There's solid proof that Al-Qaeda is responsible for the attack of 9/11, and so it's right for President Bush to disband Al-Qaeda. But after 140 days of searching for WMD in Iraq, where are they? So if it ends up that it is proven Iraq doens't have any relationship with terrorists and doesn't have any WMD, then didn't US just slaughtered tons of innocents?

I believed that Bush could have done alternatives against Iraq, like stop all trades with Iraq to just put Iraq into economic deadlock. War should be a last resort, and shouldn't be used unless there's solid proof.

John Denver September 18th, 2003 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostweaver
Terrorists need to be arrested (not destroyed... they're still human in the end) and that's facts. But what tells us that the Iraqis are the terrorist, or are related to terrorists? There's solid proof that Al-Qaeda is responsible for the attack of 9/11, and so it's right for President Bush to disband Al-Qaeda. But after 140 days of searching for WMD in Iraq, where are they? So if it ends up that it is proven Iraq doens't have any relationship with terrorists and doesn't have any WMD, then didn't US just slaughtered tons of innocents?

I believed that Bush could have done alternatives against Iraq, like stop all trades with Iraq to just put Iraq into economic deadlock. War should be a last resort, and shouldn't be used unless there's solid proof.

It's a war...and in all wars...there are collateral damage...and some of those "Innocent People" broke some rules of war and killed our men to, and some of britains..or englands or whoever the people with the big red cross in their flag is...man I'm an idiot :laugh:

BOO ya!

Gr8Person62 September 18th, 2003 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostweaver
now don't become Bush yourself... "You either go my way or the highway" (bush quote) and the other one of "i am right" thinking from bush is "you are either siding with us or the terrorist"... bush is trying to force countries to take a side or something? there's a grey area in everything you know...

now i also believed that Bush lied to us about WMD. But we can always put our heated emotions (hatred) towards Bush into nicer words. Just because Bush did all these "terrible stuff" to you, that doesn't mean you have to lose your temper... calm down first, then post again. This is how all those flame war begins in political threads. Let's not let this topic be closed down again for the 2nd time. Kairi is nice enough to reopen it before...

First thing, I'd never, ever become a Bush myself. Only one thing I'm wondering, where exactly was it in my post that I was "Mad" and "Hated" Bush? I don't see that. Especially the word "Bush", not once was it typed.


Arcanine, I don't have to reply to you, but I want to, so I will. Please don't take me wrong, I didn't direct that towards you. You seem to think everything isa imed at you, but certainly in this case it isn't. I only quoted that SC's post was true. Not about the part where he said stuff about you, but the WMD part.
Now yes, I have my oppinions, but sometimes what you say is completly out of context. Most of what you say too, is just based on what you've been told.

If there is anyone out there, who can bring me 100% proof of WMD, and 100% innosence to America, then sure, I'l believe whatever you say.

The only reason I'm dead set I'm right about what I say, is becuase it is true. If something isn't true, then I won't say it, unless I state it's my personal oppinion. I know that what some things people say against my beliefs may be true, but hey, I'm not sticking up for the terrorists, I'm sticking up for the innocent who have been "tagged" as the terrorist whithin this war. I know there are terrorists out there, I know Americans died, the only thing is, that your the one who fails to see that America is also the terrorist, and is also killing innocent poeple, and you just make it sound like there all so good and righteous.
In rebuttle to this, I'm assuming that your going to say "But Al-Quida attacked us first". I told you previously, America where the ones responsible for the devestation of many Arab nations.
This may seem like flaming to you, but It's not. I just replyed, and said what I believe to defend myself from your accusation. If you think I'm angry at you, and wrote this whith anger or whater, I didn't. You probably hate me now Arcanine, but I don't.

Quote:

Funny, I can't think of many other countries that have killed more innocent people in foreign conflicts than the United States.

Go the good guys! -_-;
There arn't any good guys in this War. Theres the terrorist, and the innocent. In a war, someone innocent will always die. And killing people for revenge doesn't make you any more innocent to whom your getting revenge on.

Personaly, I hate Al-Quida. Please don't think I support them... :)

22sa September 19th, 2003 5:52 AM

LOL why is hate so common to you? -.-;;; Arcanine was as right as you were, he shouldn't have anything to lose.

DS / StarCaliber September 19th, 2003 7:42 AM

Arcanine, the reason there are people getting the mentality that you're wrong is that you've presented such a case which lacks the incorporation of raw facts, evidence and simple truths. America post-9/11 is basically an angry, awoken giant which wishes to freely point its finger and impose its values on anywhere it chooses, and it won't go down that way. I can't believe how much, only two-years-on from 9/11, worldwide public support for the US has dropped like a stone. The way I see it is that you can't see any further than "America = good; Anti-America = bad" and this part of the swimming pool is far too deep for you, hence you not continuing this topic with me. How am I supposed to believe that you're "right" when you go around locking my topic and backing down after my first reply to you?

Shining Arcanine mentioned the President's duty is to put his country first before others. So you think that by angering people into hatred of the United States, ignoring international organisations and making false allegations against countries, you're going to solve the world's problems? How exactly is that going to help win a war on terrorism, when in most developed (and plenty of undeveloped) countries less than half have a favourable view of the United States? I'd really love to know.

The only way I can see support for the US rising again is if they get someone like Wesley Clark or Hillary Clinton into office, and dispose of some of the lying, scandalous hooligans currently occupying the White House.


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