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ForsetiMaster06 December 1st, 2022 5:23 PM

What Are Your Pokemon Hot Takes?
 
What are your controversial or otherwise unpopular opinons within this community? I have quite a few, so I guess I'll share:

1. US/UM are underrated gems. It has a good difficulty, tons of Pokemon variety and in my opinion looks great for a 3ds game. Also the long cutscenes never really bothered me.

2. Mr. Rime is my 2nd favorite Pokemon, just behind Alakazam. Love his tap dance animation.

3. Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee are far superior to FR/LG, and is overall the best pure-Kanto experience. Trainers like Koga, Bruno and Sabrina get way more appropriate teams and Pokemon are distributed much better throughout the reigon.

ambam December 2nd, 2022 7:00 AM

I usually prefer bipedal Pokemon to quadrupedal ones. Lots of bipedal hate going on right now and I just don't get it.

ForsetiMaster06 December 2nd, 2022 7:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambam (Post 10579310)
I usually prefer bipedal Pokemon to quadrupedal ones. Lots of bipedal hate going on right now and I just don't get it.

I think the hate is a byproduct of burnout of that kind of design, especially among starters. The Fuecoco line is the first ever 4-legged starter since Gen 5, so I guess people miss the design variety of older gen starters. I don't mind bipedal Pokemon myself (my favorite Pokemon is one) but I think on average their designs are not quite as good as other Pokemon.

Sweet Serenity December 2nd, 2022 12:32 PM

1. Regional variants are the worst thing to ever happen in Pokémon because it only encourages Game Freak to continue being lazy. They even took this to the extreme based on what they did with Paradox Pokémon, but I bet nobody says anything about it. Some people have tried to convince me that regional variants aren't bad for Pokémon, but I'm not having any of it.

2. I couldn't care less about a Pokémon's design (for the most part). The only time I can say I care is when the design is offensive (original Jynx) or so bad it's distracting (Quaquaval). While many players seem to discount Pokémon based upon how they look, a Pokémon's appearance doesn't win battles. When I play Pokémon, I play to win. The way a Pokémon's abilities, stats, and moves are designed is what I care about.

3. Pokémon Legends: Arceus is overrated. Many people seem to enjoy it because they like having more freedom to explore, as well as the new catching mechanics introduced in the game, which were good, don't get me wrong, but overall, the game was just a boring and repetitive grind game that took place in an extremely bland wasteland that got tiring really fast.

4. The first Pokémon games in generation I, Red, Blue, and Yellow were horrible because of their horrible sprite art, lack of balance, and plethora of glitches.

5. It's 100% possible to be successful in competitive Pokémon using your favorites, as long as you know what role they can excel in the best based on their attributes. Others have tried to tell me that it isn't possible, but I was actually ranked high on the ladder (near the top) on Pokémon Showdown for gen 8 OU Doubles using only my favorites, even though only briefly. I also reached Master Rank in Sword ranked battles using a completely non-legendary team centered around Butterfree and other favorites.

Mintaka☆ December 2nd, 2022 1:39 PM

Hey, I agree with your take on LGPE! For the reasons you mentioned and others as well, such as the redesigns to all the characters, the art direction and the little touches that made Kanto feel a lot more alive. Don't get me wrong, I know why PLA is more critically-acclaimed than the rest of the Pokémon Switch games, but LGPE looked like they had a lot more thought put into them than they should have for a game that was meant to be "filler." Sometimes I wish Game Freak would stop trying to innovate in order to "catch up" with other franchises and instead refined what gives Pokémon its own distinct identity in the first place.

My other take is that Scarlet/Violet didn't need "another year in the oven" or "more time to be better games"... because many of its aspects are unsalvageable from the concept stage. They made a region based on Spain and failed to include many of the local traditions like the Valencian falles, the culture and debates around paella, and references to local literature and game shows, among others. Heck, as cringy as it would have been to me, I actually find it baffling that the original Japanese version doesn't feature any characters speaking Spanish or even saying "Hola!". The Pokémon designs we got could use more refining, sure, but a lot of them just don't work because they don't fit in the context of a region based on Spain (all the starter evolutions, the Tarountula and Nymble lines) or just don't work as Pokémon period (the Gimmighoul line, the Wattrel line, the Tinkatink line, the Capsakid line). Nothing suggests all these terrible designs would have been scrapped had Game Freak been given more time to work on the games. These seem carefully planned to be as bad as they are, and there is proof of that - Dudunsparce, a well-played but extremely mean-spirited jab at people who wanted a Dunsparce evolution. Even the story and characters are inconsistent as hell; just what the hell is a Japanese salaryman doing in Spain of all places, and why does he look more like a hitman for hire, like his workmates in the Elite Four, than an actually ordinary salaryman/office worker? Why do all the past Paradox Pokémon look universally more high than the fandom says Hisuian Typhlosion is caveman-like, and why do all future Paradox Pokémon look like robots instead of a healthy mix with natural evolutions of Mons we know?

So no, for these and many other reasons, I don't think ironing out the bugs and performance issues will make the games the best in the series. They could be as nice-looking as they come, perform at a stable 60fps, and they'd still be the absolute worst main series games because they were ill-conceived from the get-go.

Explorer of Time December 2nd, 2022 6:38 PM

1: Mega Evolutions are by far the worst gimmick. All the others are accessible to basically every Pokemon, but only 46 (28 in X and Y) Pokemon can Mega Evolve at all. The others? Nothing. And the Pokemon that do get Megas are heavily weighted towards Gen 1 and Gen 3 Pokemon. Every Pokemon is someone's favorite, but Mega Evolution as a mechanic punishes people for not using the ones that the developers like the most. Z-Moves, Dynamax, and Terastalization all work fine on anything, so I don't mind them as much as I do Mega Evolution.

2: It's not really relevant to me because I don't own a Switch, but I don't mind Dexit all that much. I rarely, if ever, transfer my Pokemon between games, and transfer between generations is usually a one-way street anyway. When going back to previous generations, I already can't bring in most of my favorite Pokemon, so it doesn't feel much different when I can't have certain Pokemon in a current-gen game.

3: I know I said "every Pokemon is someone's favorite" earlier, but I actually like when regional dexes are limited and don't cram in every Pokemon in the series like some romhacks and fangames do. It really helps characterize regions to have their own list of native Pokemon.

4: Nuzlockes are a popular challenge, but thematically they completely clash with the tone and themes of the series. Think about what happened in the anime when Damian released his Charmander for being "too weak". Remember how much we all hated him? He did basically the same thing that Nuzlockers do.

5: I haven't reviewed all the new Scarlet and Violet Pokemon yet, but Pokemon designs (aside from fully-evolved starters), have otherwise consistently improved throughout the generations. The only exception, IMO, was Gen 5 because its early route mons were spiritual successors of Pokemon from Gen 1, the gen with my least favorite Pokemon designs.

6: Evil teams are unnecessary and don't really add all that much to the games. Their grunts all tend to use similar, weak Pokemon as well.

SquirmyWorm064 December 2nd, 2022 6:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Explorer of Time (Post 10579475)
1: Mega Evolutions are by far the worst gimmick. All the others are accessible to basically every Pokemon, but only 46 (28 in X and Y) Pokemon can Mega Evolve at all. The others? Nothing. And the Pokemon that do get Megas are heavily weighted towards Gen 1 and Gen 3 Pokemon. Every Pokemon is someone's favorite, but Mega Evolution as a mechanic punishes people for not using the ones that the developers like the most. Z-Moves, Dynamax, and Terastalization all work fine on anything, so I don't mind them as much as I do Mega Evolution.

2: It's not really relevant to me because I don't own a Switch, but I don't mind Dexit all that much. I rarely, if ever, transfer my Pokemon between games, and transfer between generations is usually a one-way street anyway. When going back to previous generations, I already can't bring in most of my favorite Pokemon, so it doesn't feel much different when I can't have certain Pokemon in a current-gen game.

3: I know I said "every Pokemon is someone's favorite" earlier, but I actually like when regional dexes are limited and don't cram in every Pokemon in the series like some romhacks and fangames do. It really helps characterize regions to have their own list of native Pokemon.

4: Nuzlockes are a popular challenge, but thematically they completely clash with the tone and themes of the series. Think about what happened in the anime when Damian released his Charmander for being "too weak". Remember how much we all hated him? He did basically the same thing that Nuzlockers do.

5: I haven't reviewed all the new Scarlet and Violet Pokemon yet, but Pokemon designs (aside from fully-evolved starters), have otherwise consistently improved throughout the generations. The only exception, IMO, was Gen 5 because its early route mons were spiritual successors of Pokemon from Gen 1, the gen with my least favorite Pokemon designs.

6: Evil teams are unnecessary and don't really add all that much to the games. Their grunts all tend to use similar, weak Pokemon as well.

I disagree that mega evolutions were the worst gimmick. They had the best designs and made much more sense then why they made the gigantimax or terastelize gimmick. Pokemon has been running out of ideas once Sun and Moon came out

Squirtkipfan01 December 2nd, 2022 8:05 PM

1. Charizard is incredibly overated by game freak and the community
2. Mega evolution was the best battle gimmick( maybe not unpopular idk)
3. Gen 4 is not very good
4. Design wise most fairy types are awful or there something that already existed that was made a fairy(jigglypuff)

Adam's IQ December 3rd, 2022 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Serenity (Post 10579399)
1. Regional variants are the worst thing to ever happen in Pokémon because it only encourages Game Freak to continue being lazy. They even took this to the extreme based on what they did with Paradox Pokémon, but I bet nobody says anything about it. Some people have tried to convince me that regional variants aren't bad for Pokémon, but I'm not having any of it.

2. I couldn't care less about a Pokémon's design (for the most part). The only time I can say I care is when the design is offensive (original Jynx) or so bad it's distracting (Quaquaval). While many players seem to discount Pokémon based upon how they look, a Pokémon's appearance doesn't win battles. When I play Pokémon, I play to win. The way a Pokémon's abilities, stats, and moves are designed is what I care about.

3. Pokémon Legends: Arceus is overrated. Many people seem to enjoy it because they like having more freedom to explore, as well as the new catching mechanics introduced in the game, which were good, don't get me wrong, but overall, the game was just a boring and repetitive grind game that took place in an extremely bland wasteland that got tiring really fast.

4. The first Pokémon games in generation I, Red, Blue, and Yellow were horrible because of their horrible sprite art, lack of balance, and plethora of glitches.

5. It's 100% possible to be successful in competitive Pokémon using your favorites, as long as you know what role they can excel in the best based on their attributes. Others have tried to tell me that it isn't possible, but I was actually ranked high on the ladder (near the top) on Pokémon Showdown for gen 8 OU Doubles using only my favorites, even though only briefly. I also reached Master Rank in Sword ranked battles using a completely non-legendary team centered around Butterfree and other favorites.

I honestly love how alike we are. Regional, Paradox and those Ultra Beasts too, they can disappear and I would be happy. All it does is reskin an old one into new attire. And Legends was a game I could care less about since I had zero interest from the start. The moment they said it took place in the ancient past I was already checked out.

moon December 3rd, 2022 5:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambam (Post 10579310)
I usually prefer bipedal Pokemon to quadrupedal ones. Lots of bipedal hate going on right now and I just don't get it.

me too, haha


Also I dislike all the generational gimmicks except for Mega Pokémon - which I absolutely loved - and I think more Megas should be made. The special moves of Alola, the weird hats of Paldea and the ridiculous gigantic sizes that made absolutely no sense in Galar... While the Alolan gimmick worked alright, Megas were just so much more interesting and gave some new cool designs and typings to explore.

Corveone December 3rd, 2022 8:04 AM

I doubt all of these are unpopular, but I guess they could be considered hot take:

-IVs should have stopped being a thing long ago, and anyone at Game Freak who actually believes this is a good mechanic shouldn't be anywhere near a game design department.

-Legends Arceus made team building better than any main game.

-Gym "puzzles" were pointless distractions that had nothing to do with actual Pokémon gameplay and didn't add anything relevant to the experience.

-Terastal is the best one-gen gimmick so far.

-Convergent species is one of the dumbest ideas ever. Changing a "D" for a "W" is the only thing that makes Wiglett a "new" species instead of a Diglett regional variant. Toedscool should have been Paldean Tentacool as well, there's no need to convolute things even more by creating new names for things that aren't actually adding anything new, they're just regional forms but with a new name and dex number.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambam (Post 10579310)
I usually prefer bipedal Pokemon to quadrupedal ones. Lots of bipedal hate going on right now and I just don't get it.

It's not necessarily dislike towards bipedal, but for being too human-like. Plenty of mons, including many starters from the first gens, were bipedal while still retaining a monster attitude, unlike these human-esque stereotypes such as a football player, wrestler, dancer, etc. whose stances, movement, and/or attacks are based on literal humans' behavior.

Nah December 3rd, 2022 2:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corveone (Post 10579719)
-Legends Arceus made team building better than any main game.

What makes you say this exactly? Not asking out of agreement or disagreement, just that what makes certain Pokemon games better/worse for teambuilding is not something I've thought about much.

ambam December 3rd, 2022 4:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corveone (Post 10579719)
It's not necessarily dislike towards bipedal, but for being too human-like. Plenty of mons, including many starters from the first gens, were bipedal while still retaining a monster attitude, unlike these human-esque stereotypes such as a football player, wrestler, dancer, etc. whose stances, movement, and/or attacks are based on literal humans' behavior.

I can completely understand that, but if that's the issue, why don't people just say that? I see many people specifically use the word bipedal when talking about Pokemon design traits they dislike (See the whole "keep Sprigatito a quadruped" thing before S/V's release). Maybe they're just confusing being bipedal with being human-like, Idk...

ForsetiMaster06 December 3rd, 2022 4:24 PM

Dang, there are a lot more negative takes than I expected on here. Hoped there would be a bit more positivity is all. Interesting at the very least.

Sweet Serenity December 3rd, 2022 5:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nah (Post 10579814)
What makes you say this exactly? Not asking out of agreement or disagreement, just that what makes certain Pokemon games better/worse for teambuilding is not something I've thought about much.

I'm assuming because Pokémon Legends: Arceus lacks EVs, IVs, and abilities, things that casual players typically believe are too complicated. In my opinion, it just makes the game boring.

Corveone December 4th, 2022 6:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nah (Post 10579814)
What makes you say this exactly? Not asking out of agreement or disagreement, just that what makes certain Pokemon games better/worse for teambuilding is not something I've thought about much.

I mean it's better because the developers put some sense behind the mechanics involved in building your team and making your Pokémon stronger.

You want a super strong Heracross for your team? Well, you can catch any Heracross and it will be totally fine.

No need to play Pokémon eugenics, catching the same Pokémon over and over again or spend countless hours working until you breed the good one and trash all the failures, because in PLA any Pokémon can reach its peak regardless of its origin (which btw, is more lore-appropiated). No need to spend more time grinding than playing the game to earn the right to make your Pokémon as strong as possible.

Wrong nature? Mint harvest can eventually fix that.

Ugly EV spreads that you cannot control due to random battles? No, since there's no EV gain from battling, you have ELs instead that can be enhanced through specific items, which are rewarded for exploration, side-missions, and properly integrated into the natural game progression. More advanced Grit for higher ELs also become available as you progress enough through the game, adding a sort of soft cap that prevent players from maxing out stats early on through power grinding.

The EL system also makes mixed attacker builds a more viable choice. In the main games Pokémon with base stats meant for mixed attackers typically have to choose between the physical or the special route, in PLA you can max all stats and fine-tune your movesets accordingly.

They even removed the pointless Trade evolutions, something that the main games should have done long ago.

Squirtkipfan01 December 4th, 2022 5:01 PM

Actually based opinion that i never really QUITE thought about

Sweet Serenity December 5th, 2022 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corveone (Post 10580100)
I mean it's better because the developers put some sense behind the mechanics involved in building your team and making your Pokémon stronger.

You want a super strong Heracross for your team? Well, you can catch any Heracross and it will be totally fine.

No need to play Pokémon eugenics, catching the same Pokémon over and over again or spend countless hours working until you breed the good one and trash all the failures, because in PLA any Pokémon can reach its peak regardless of its origin (which btw, is more lore-appropiated). No need to spend more time grinding than playing the game to earn the right to make your Pokémon as strong as possible.

Wrong nature? Mint harvest can eventually fix that.

Ugly EV spreads that you cannot control due to random battles? No, since there's no EV gain from battling, you have ELs instead that can be enhanced through specific items, which are rewarded for exploration, side-missions, and properly integrated into the natural game progression. More advanced Grit for higher ELs also become available as you progress enough through the game, adding a sort of soft cap that prevent players from maxing out stats early on through power grinding.

The EL system also makes mixed attacker builds a more viable choice. In the main games Pokémon with base stats meant for mixed attackers typically have to choose between the physical or the special route, in PLA you can max all stats and fine-tune your movesets accordingly.

They even removed the pointless Trade evolutions, something that the main games should have done long ago.

Yet, nothing that you mentioned would help improve your team or truly make your Pokémon stronger when playing competitively. The reason this "worked" for Pokémon Legends: Arceus is because it is a single-player game for causal players that battle against NPCs, whom are much more likely to have Pokémon that are much weaker than your own without advanced AI. It shouldn't be incorporated anywhere near a mainline Pokémon game with a competitive scene. If this same system was incorporated with competitive Pokémon, then every other player would have the same Heracross, for example, with the same level of strength, which removes the individuality and would affect the overall game negatively. For instance, even if you believed that you made your Heracross "super strong," other players will definitely be doing the exact same thing, meaning that your Heracross is not "super strong" anymore. Instead, this ruins things, such as by making it even more luck based and overall pointless because nearly every Pokémon would be capable of doing the exact same thing. The entire premise of Pokémon is to be the best Pokémon trainer. The EV system represents the way that you train your train Pokémon and the IV system represents their potential.

Not unlike real life, different people and/or creatures have more potential in certain fields than others. For instance, some people are simply better at playing sports than others, resulting in them being more likely to play professionally. As a result, sports teams are more likely to sign the best players at playing the sport to increase their chances of winning games and eventually a championship. The same logic applies to Pokémon whereas, if the goal is to win battles and eventually win a championship, it's wise to train the absolute best Pokémon to increase chances of winning. Thus, focusing on using the best to obtain the goal isn't "eugenics," just as the reason a professional sports team doesn't sign random people off the street in favor of skilled, accomplished athletes isn't "eugenics." In the process, you're not "trashing" your Pokémon, but rather "signing" the best Pokémon for your team. The entire point of competitive Pokémon is to determine not only which player has the best strategy in a battle to decide a winner, but also to determine which player is the best at training their Pokémon. The IV and EV system is a great thing for a number of reasons.

For one, it makes Pokémon not so determinant on luck compared to many other turn-based strategy games and separates the casuals from the players that are dedicated, take the game seriously, and keep the level of competition high. The different EV and IV spreads make the game much more unique and dynamic. For example, the game is much better when you're facing a player using, say, a Groudon that was trained to be fast enough to sweep your entire team, but then you face another player with a Groudon that is extremely slow, but bulky enough to take many hits and do massive damage with its attacks. If Pokémon removed EVs and IVs, literally every single Groudon would be the same, which makes Pokémon seem less like living creatures with different skills and potential levels, and too much like game data. The developers never intended for Pokémon to be this way, especially not these days. This is also why competitive Pokémon is able to give out a $10,000 to the winner of the annual VGC tournaments. Without this system, competitive Pokémon would be nothing more than a linear game of rock-paper-scissors where practically every Pokémon functions the exact same way and would be checkers instead of chess.

Anybody can win by simply copying what is most common. If Pokémon were all linear and functioned the exact same way, people are only going to copy the strongest Pokémon solely, which overall ruins the quality of the game and discourages unique teambuilding. It would make Pokémon worse than it already is in terms of balancing as well. The argument about EV training and breeding for good IVs has always been silly to me. Nowadays, the developers are attempting to make it ridiculously easy to have a competitive Pokémon without putting in much work. Now, you can hyper train a Pokémon at level 50 instead of 100 and the Bottle Caps needed to make it happen can be store bought now without having to grind for BP. The same thing applies for vitamins that increase EVs. With that being said, players should no longer claim that training a good competitive Pokémon is a "waste of time" now because Game Freak is making almost impossible not to make a competitive team. This was actually meant to be just a response to Corveone's post, but I guess you can say that this is another "hot take" of mine, whereas I am a person that is perfectly fine with the EV/IV system. I'm sure this is probably a controversial view for many members of the forum.

Mintaka☆ December 5th, 2022 10:44 PM

One about my favourite line in Scarlet/Violet, despite how much I dislike these games: If there's a redundant stage in the Pawmi line, it's Pawmi itself.

I made it no secret that Pawmi didn't catch my eye when it was first revealed, but when Pawmo and Pawmot were leaked, I fell in love with the line. Why, then, did Pawmi not have the Fighting-type from the get-go? I'd even say Pawmo is a lot cuter with its bipedal stance, its lighter colour and its extremely cute cry. A lot of people dislike it and I respect that, but at the same time I'm not sure I agree with them any longer. Heck, no disrespect to Pawmot, but Pawmo could have been single-stage like every Pikaclone and have its evolution's stats and signature move, and I would have been a happy camper.

tl;dr: The only reason people hate Pawmo is because it was misplaced in the evolution line. If it had been a single-stage Pikaclone, a lot more people would love it like I do now.

Corveone December 6th, 2022 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Serenity (Post 10580615)
Yet, nothing that you mentioned would help improve your team or truly make your Pokémon stronger when playing competitively. The reason this "worked" for Pokémon Legends: Arceus is because it is a single-player game for causal players that battle against NPCs, whom are much more likely to have Pokémon that are much weaker than your own without advanced AI.

Not everything is about competitive. My point is about game design, don't know why you take criticism over team building mechanics so personal and argue argue about any arguments against IVs/EVs because you're a pro who loves competitive, and those who criticize those aspects are apparently just lazy casuals who don't understand how things work.

This video explains it, and the comments show why a lot of players prefer it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7f38FjtWc8

You say Legends Arceus has boring repetitive grind (which yeah, in some areas it has), yet you apparently love and justify the boring repetitive grind in the main games, because it's fine when it's all for the mighty competitive. So since PLA doesn't have competitive it makes sense that it's not worth your time. So apparently you do agree that grinding is bad, you just endure it when according to you it's for a good cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Serenity (Post 10580615)
The entire point of competitive Pokémon is to determine not only which player has the best strategy in a battle to decide a winner, but also to determine which player is the best at training their Pokémon. The IV and EV system is a great thing for a number of reasons.

Having a 31 IV Gengar with 252 Sp. Attack and 252 Speed doesn't make anyone a better trainer, just someone who spent a lot of time grinding, which has nothing to do with skills. And it won't make that Gengar any special either because there will be tons of Gengars out there with identical or very similar stats. You can make your Pokémon or your team as a whole special in different ways, yet none of that has anything to do with IVs. Your point applies to EVs, because those do require some thinking and strategy and allow for different builds, but not to IVs.

No matter how much you try to sugarcoat it, you do selective breeding and forced RNG manipulation to obtain Pokémon with perfect IVs, which literally goes against the purpose of IVs you've mentioned about reflecting that same species can have somewhat different stats, and perfection (as in nature) doesn't exist. Imperfect IVs only exist so that competitive players can spend a lot of time perfecting them and feel good for "achieving" something that wouldn't be necessary to achieve if IVs were perfect or didn't exist to begin with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Serenity (Post 10580615)
Anybody can win by simply copying what is most common.

Something that the current system has not prevented from happening, at all.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Serenity (Post 10580615)
The entire premise of Pokémon is to be the best Pokémon trainer. The EV system represents the way that you train your train Pokémon and the IV system represents their potential.

That's just your personal take. Pokémon has different premises, and not everyone cares so much about being or having the best. Pokémon is an advanced rock paper scissors in which every Pokémon, and every team, is supposed to beat others while being beaten by some others. All you can do is try to build a team that can overcome different challenges and win as much as possible, but there is no best anything because every trainer, Pokémon, team, and strategy is expected to be countered by something else, no matter how good they are, and even luck plays a large part. And if something is so broken that very few things can counter it, then it has to be banned or rebalanced accordingly because that's not supposed to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Serenity (Post 10580615)
Nowadays, the developers are attempting to make it ridiculously easy to have a competitive Pokémon without putting in much work. Now, you can hyper train a Pokémon at level 50 instead of 100 and the Bottle Caps needed to make it happen can be store bought now without having to grind for BP.

Sounds like you're worried about the competitive player base growing larger, as your VIP circle becomes accessible to more players and may be eventually contaminated by tons of casuals who didn't earn the right to be there. The only reason to perceive changes like no longer forcing players to level up all the way to level 100, or somewhat toning down other grindy and time consuming tasks as something negative, is because it feels bad that other players will be able to enter the competitive scene without investing as much heavy work and time sink as you do. But, as you can't possibly ignore, lots of players hack IVs, shinies, and all they want and build competitive teams in minutes using external tools anyway, so players building teams with minimal effort (which they probably wouldn't if team building mechanics were more fun and enjoyable) has allways been a thing.

I understand that some gatekeeping (because that's what it looks like) might be necessary in order to prevent an overpopulation in the competitive scene, that would somewhat justify the obtuse mechanics, but wouldn't invalidate the point about them being obtuse.

Sweet Serenity December 8th, 2022 7:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corveone (Post 10580995)
Not everything is about competitive. My point is about game design, don't know why you take criticism over team building mechanics so personal and argue argue about any arguments against IVs/EVs because you're a pro who loves competitive, and those who criticize those aspects are apparently just lazy casuals who don't understand how things work.

This video explains it, and the comments show why a lot of players prefer it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7f38FjtWc8

I never said everything was about competitive. I also never said that I was a "pro" or EV/IV critics are "lazy casuals" that lack understanding. Simply put, not everybody plays Pokémon the same way, or enjoy Pokémon for the same reasons. Personally, I love playing competitive Pokémon, believe it is extremely underrated, and that more people should try it rather than completely disregard it based on the myth that it is "too much of a grind." As a result, when you say that a game such as Pokémon Legends: Arceus, a game that doesn't even have a system that grants Pokémon their own individuality, makes the game "better" for teambuilding, I simply disagree. Pokémon Legends: Arceus does not have a competitive scene at all, as it is a game made strictly for casual players, which is why that system works (somewhat). The system simply wouldn't work in a mainline game with a competitive scene because it removes Pokémon individuality, strategy, and makes them more broken as opposed to "stronger." In fact, you can argue that it makes them broken in a casual sense as well. In addition, my point isn't all about EVs and IVs either. Pokémon Legends: Arceus also removed Pokémon abilities too, which is absurd and isn't good for competitive, as it removes Pokémon individuality and strategy even further.

Quote:

You say Legends Arceus has boring repetitive grind (which yeah, in some areas it has), yet you apparently love and justify the boring repetitive grind in the main games, because it's fine when it's all for the mighty competitive. So since PLA doesn't have competitive it makes sense that it's not worth your time. So apparently you do agree that grinding is bad, you just endure it when according to you it's for a good cause.
The problem with this argument is that I don't consider EV training and IV breeding to be a "boring repetitive grind." Instead, I consider it to be a rewarding effort that pays off, as it shows me I'm playing the game with a purpose more than just finishing the story. To me, that's what makes Pokémon fun. For example, in the mainline games, after breeding for good IVs and EV training properly, I know that I would be rewarded with strong Pokémon that could help me increase my chances of winning battles when I battle other players. In Pokémon Legends: Arceus, I don't even have the option to do that, meaning that it serves no real purpose to collect items to make the strongest Pokémon when I finish the game without doing so. Ultimately, this makes Pokémon Legends: Arceus essentially a game based on catching 25 Bidoofs and Starly in a wasteland, which is much more boring and less rewarding than training up a Pokémon that can, say, get you to Master Rank level. Thus, I would say that pointless grinding that serves no purpose is bad, which would ultimately happen if this system was placed in a mainline Pokémon game. In addition, if you have a perfect IV Ditto with a Destiny Knot and vitamins to spare, EV training becomes even less of a "grind."

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Having a 31 IV Gengar with 252 Sp. Attack and 252 Speed doesn't make anyone a better trainer, just someone who spent a lot of time grinding, which has nothing to do with skills. And it won't make that Gengar any special either because there will be tons of Gengars out there with identical or very similar stats. You can make your Pokémon or your team as a whole special in different ways, yet none of that has anything to do with IVs. Your point applies to EVs, because those do require some thinking and strategy and allow for different builds, but not to IVs.
Being able to understand how a Pokémon would excel in competitive takes plenty skill. However, you used a Pokémon that practically anybody can understand how to train it as an example, as Gengar can only function as a special sweeper with its stats. Yet, Pokémon such as Incineroar and Landorus, two Pokémon often regarded as some of the best all-time battlers in competitive Pokémon, aren't so simple, as they can be trained in various ways, which can ultimately determine the outcome of a battle. I am also aware that my point applies to EVs, but it also applies to IVs as well because it determines a Pokémon's potential. If those are removed, along with abilities, and replaced with a system that can max all stats, then, as previously stated, Pokémon would lose all individuality and the game would become even more broken and therefore pointless.

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No matter how much you try to sugarcoat it, you do selective breeding and forced RNG manipulation to obtain Pokémon with perfect IVs, which literally goes against the purpose of IVs you've mentioned about reflecting that same species can have somewhat different stats, and perfection (as in nature) doesn't exist. Imperfect IVs only exist so that competitive players can spend a lot of time perfecting them and feel good for "achieving" something that wouldn't be necessary to achieve if IVs were perfect or didn't exist to begin with.
It's not "imperfect" IVs that exist, but rather different IVs that exist. Different IVs exist to add individuality to different Pokémon and what those differences mean to players depends on their goals. If they want to win competitive battles, then they are more likely to go for Pokémon with the best IVs. If they want to play the game casually and simply finish the story, they are unlikely to care about IVs. Simply put, I believe that casual players that don't care for IVs should just ignore them rather than advocate for a change in the system, especially for a system that would ruin the competitive scene for players just to satisfy the casual players. In addition, different IV spreads can also impact the outcome of a game as well. For example, you might need to breed a Pokémon with 0 or extremely low Speed IVs to excel in Trick Room. For example, consider the Pokémon in your avatar.

If all IVs were perfect or didn't exist, Honchkrow wouldn't be used at all because its stats make it really difficult to use. A 71 base Speed is too fast for Trick Room under normal circumstances, but if you breed one with 0 Speed IVs, combined with Honchkrow's ability to land critical hits easily, it can be really good on a Trick Room team as a sweeper. In addition, you might need to breed a special attacker with low Attack IVs to minimize confusion damage. The current system gives many Pokémon their own individual chance to shine. Another example would be that 30 Speed IVs might be better than 31 in certain circumstances. For instance, during a mirror match, the chances are great a Pokémon with a pivot move such as Volt Switch or U-Turn would be able to use its move last to do some damage and pivot out last to ensure that the next Pokémon switches in safely, but would still be fast enough to move very close to how it normally can against other Pokémon with its full 252 Speed EV spread.

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Something that the current system has not prevented from happening, at all.

I understand that players tend to copy what they consider to be the best in competitive Pokémon, especially in the VGC tournaments, but my point was that removing the system would only make the matter even worse than it already is. In addition, albeit many of those teams are very similar to each other, I'm willing to bet that many of those teams have completely different IV and EV spreads that can ultimately determine a winner. If you remove that system, then the most skilled player on these lists that knows damage calculation and how IVs/EVs work in accordance with such is unlikely to win as often as he or she should, as the game becomes much more luck based at this point, which is bad for competitive Pokémon. At that point, like I said, literally anybody could win in this situation. That makes the competitive aspect worse.

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That's just your personal take. Pokémon has different premises, and not everyone cares so much about being or having the best. Pokémon is an advanced rock paper scissors in which every Pokémon, and every team, is supposed to beat others while being beaten by some others. All you can do is try to build a team that can overcome different challenges and win as much as possible, but there is no best anything because every trainer, Pokémon, team, and strategy is expected to be countered by something else, no matter how good they are, and even luck plays a large part. And if something is so broken that very few things can counter it, then it has to be banned or rebalanced accordingly because that's not supposed to happen.
The premise of Pokémon itself is to be the best trainer. That's why the storyline of every mainline game involves you becoming the Pokémon League champion. EV spreads do represent training, as they are (mainly) earned from battling and experience. IVs pretty much does represent potential because it is based on the limits of a Pokémon's capabilities. I agree that the goal should be to win as much as possible, but my point is the system that Pokémon Legends: Arceus uses won't help players reach that goal compared to the current system. Luck truly only plays a part when critical hits are involved, when effects from moves such as freezing, paralysis, burn, etc. occur, or when moves miss. When everybody is maxing their stats with a lack of IVs and abilities, Pokémon won't function differently anymore, which would make the game even more luck based and simply broken. That's just simply not good for the health of a mainline game with a competitive scene.

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Sounds like you're worried about the competitive player base growing larger, as your VIP circle becomes accessible to more players and may be eventually contaminated by tons of casuals who didn't earn the right to be there. The only reason to perceive changes like no longer forcing players to level up all the way to level 100, or somewhat toning down other grindy and time consuming tasks as something negative, is because it feels bad that other players will be able to enter the competitive scene without investing as much heavy work and time sink as you do. But, as you can't possibly ignore, lots of players hack IVs, shinies, and all they want and build competitive teams in minutes using external tools anyway, so players building teams with minimal effort (which they probably wouldn't if team building mechanics were more fun and enjoyable) has allways been a thing.

I understand that some gatekeeping (because that's what it looks like) might be necessary in order to prevent an overpopulation in the competitive scene, that would somewhat justify the obtuse mechanics, but wouldn't invalidate the point about them being obtuse.
You missed the entire part of my post here. On the contrary, I actually feel the exact opposite. I don't think there are enough competitive players and I love the fact that Game Freak is making it even easier for more people to get into it. I also never said that this was a negative thing. If anything, I'm saying it's a great thing. However, my point when I brought it up was that because Game Freak is making it much easier for people to get into competitive Pokémon with these changes, casual players can no longer make the argument that preparing for competitive is a "long grind" anymore. For instance, you literally don't have to level up your Pokémon to 100 to Hyper Train them anymore; they can be Hyper Trained at level 50, which you're very likely to reach even before post-game. If you choose to Hyper Train, then you don't have to worry about breeding for IVs. You no longer have to grind in the battle facilities for BP to purchase competitive held items anymore, as you can now buy them with your regular money now early on.

You don't even have to EV train Pokémon the hard way anymore, as vitamins and similar items can get the job done without even having to battle. Thus, I just simply find it silly when players call preparing for competitive a "long boring grind" when Game Freak literally made it so easy and accessible for everybody. I also rarely put in "heavy work" when playing Pokémon. For years, I've always just bred Pokémon with good IVs and EV trained them with vitamins before transferring them over to the next game at level 1 after freshly hatching from eggs, skipping the EV training process in the new game for all except my starter. However, because Pokémon Scarlet and Violet does not have Pokémon HOME compatibility, I actually had to play the game the "hard way" this time, but even then, it wasn't "heavy work" because this is perhaps the best generation for EV training. You can choose which Pokémon you want to battle, as you're no longer forced into battles anymore, and while the EV spreads won't be perfect as you progress, EV-reducing berries are scattered all over the map.

When you use them as you're progressing, you can make your EV spreads exactly how you want to make them. All three of my Pokémon teams in Violet are already fully EV trained and I haven't even beat the game yet and it didn't even feel like I was grinding. It just felt natural. As for hacking, I understand that players do it, but why hack your game and risk having your Nintendo Switch being banned when preparing for competitive is ridiculously easy and simple now? I mean, if a player desperately feels the need to hack that bad despite things being easier and love competitive Pokémon so much, then they're just better off battling on Pokémon Showdown and not risk their Switch essentially becoming a brick. Anyways, as I said, we don't need to prevent an overpopulation in the competitive scene; we need a bigger population and Game Freak set the groundwork for it.

blondsie. December 8th, 2022 3:05 PM

gastly doesn't get enough love

Neb December 8th, 2022 4:16 PM

I don't find Legends Arceus to be a particularly compelling or fun game. Searching for items for Pokeballs is extremely tedious and the game's world feels empty and lifeless. I also didn't like the lack of trainer battles.

Pokémon Ranger and its sequels are some of the most fun I've had with a Pokémon spin-off.

The champion's team in Scarlet and Violet is actually pretty good. I think they use an interesting mix of Pokémon. Their battle theme also fits the Spain inspired region perfectly.

Mr. Mime and Jynx (the fixed design) are way too over-hated. I think they're both unique Pokémon that offer a lot to the series. They're great to use on in-game teams too. Mr. Rime is a wonderful evolution too.

GameFreak really needs to make a Pokémon region based on China, Mexico, the Pacific Northwest, or Germany. All four places have very distinct cultures that would work well. At least there are some fans making a Pacific Northwest region a reality in their fan game...

Simply Dunsparce December 8th, 2022 7:04 PM

A lot of pink shinies aren't good (looking at you Qwilfish)

Palamon December 8th, 2022 10:57 PM

The Sun/Moon anime art style was good and I will die on that hill.

Sheep December 11th, 2022 10:44 PM

^Agreed lol. SuMo was also my favorite of the anime series in general.

My (maybe?) hot take: Sinnoh is a bad region and Dawn is boring, anime included. :( She's my least favorite protagonist along with Lucas (they're a bit better in Legends though) and DPPt were my least favorite Pokémon games. Legends was great though.

Adam Levine December 12th, 2022 11:38 AM

Dudunsparce is great, actually, because its design is the best possible punchline to a 22-year-old joke. Imagine waiting seven generations for your favorite bootleg tsuchinoko to get an evolution, and it's just bigger. I love it because it's so fittingly underwhelming.

Double super effectiveness is dumb because it completely screws over certain Pokémon.

Regional forms are a great idea but really should've been implemented at least a few generations ago. Generation V especially could've benefitted from fleshing out older Pokémon over adding a bunch of new ones, considering how hit-or-miss Generation V's Pokémon are, at least for some people (for example, did we really need the Timburr line if we could've just given Machop a Unovan form or something?).

Some people need to stop saying that Game Freak needs to hire fanartists, especially when the designs of new Pokémon have only surfaced thanks to leaks. This is the "Nintendo hire this man" meme all over again. You might not like some of these Pokémon, but I assure you that they at least put some thought into each and every single Pokémon design. As someone who dislikes designs like Bruxish, Enamorus, and Squawkabilly, I have to concede that they were, in all likelihood, made with at least some consideration and with Game Freak's design conventions in mind.

Transferring Pokémon from generation to generation, while cute, feels unnecessary and might be the root of every logistical problem the core series has.

redhot72 December 16th, 2022 9:54 PM

Gen 5 is one of the worst Pokemon games. The dex is uninspired and just a knockoff of Gen 1 for the most part. The sprite animations and overall graphics are a total downgrade from Gen 4. Even the story is overrated by the Gen 5 fanboys that obsess over N. Also we never needed B2/W2.

Cubeth December 18th, 2022 6:11 AM

Platinum is boring as all hell. HGSS are not great, altho props for making the worst designed Pokémon games remotely bearable, I guess. Object based, absurd and visual simple designs are better than the most complex ones by a landslide. Megas were the worst and most unbalanced gimmick. Toucannon is the most creative regional bird.

Ninetales December 18th, 2022 11:49 AM

Here’s a few things I can list from the top of my head:

1. Kalos is the best designed region geographically. It is breathtakingly beautiful. Galar and Paldea are also stunning, but both suffer from a lack of explorable locations in towns and cities specifically.

2. Pokémon Mystery Dungeon games are far superior to main series Pokémon games, there’s no comparison, really. PMD Explorers of Sky is my favourite game of all time, and always will be.

3. Design > Stats. I could care less about a pokemon’s stats, if I consider it to be visually appealing, I will adore it and I will subsequently use it.

4. BDSP are phenomenal games. Sure, they weren’t perfect and there are things I wish they had improved upon, however, I think they were enjoyable games overall. Although, I will say, they had no business nerfing contests like that.

5. All of the generation 9 starters are well-designed.

6. The Pokeathlon is 90% of the reason why I love HGSS as much as I do. Likely 40-50% of my time in-game has just devoted to competing in the various pokeathlon events continuously.

7. The immense disdain for bipedal starters, and bipedal Pokémon in general is so unnecessary. I just don’t quite understand it, most bipedal starters are very well-designed. I also don’t really see the issue with humanoid Pokémon, either.

8. I like Smoochum. I just think she’s the cutest thing! Jynx, not so much.

9. I don’t generally tend to dislike over saturated or over-popularized Pokémon. Take Charizard for instance, while I can recognize and understand why people dislike it do to its preferential treatment, I still very much am fond of Charizard.

10. This is a bit similar to the last one, but the internet will never ruin something for me. Gardevoir, Lopunny, Lucario, etc have all been portrayed in rather interesting ways and thus have acquired certain negative connotations as a result. However, if I like something, I like it and I’m unlikely to be influenced by external sources. I love Lopunny, Gardevoir, Tsareena, etc because they are girlboss Pokémon, and that’s that.

11. Generation five introduced some of the best designed Pokémon, cities, and characters in the entire franchise.

12. I love Chesnaught. Design wise, I prefer Chesnaught to both Delphox and Greninja.

Sweet Serenity December 19th, 2022 9:03 PM

Here are a few more hot takes that I forgot to mention before. I believe that Cynthia is overrated and is one of the easiest Elite Four Champions to defeat in the entire series and I couldn't care less if a starter Pokémon is bipedal, quadrupedal, or even no pedal.

Mintaka☆ December 20th, 2022 8:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Serenity (Post 10585615)
I believe that Cynthia is overrated and is one of the easiest Elite Four Champions to defeat in the entire series

THIS, THIS, THIS! Thank you so much! I didn't take too well to her when I first played the Sinnoh games, because I didn't like that she was following me everywhere and pretending it was a coincidence. It was the incessant shilling during the period in which BD/SP and PLA were released that made me despise her, though. I mean... she got not one, but TWO possible ancestors in PLA - whom I also happen to dislike, and who explain her more unpleasant tendencies. She has also been featured in pretty much every Generation since she first appeared except Gen VI, where the equally disdainable Steven took her place. I don't get the hype for her.

Speaking of human characters I find overrated, the entire Paldea Elite Four except Poppy is this for me. It'd be a blessing if I could go on S/V-related fanart website/image boards for once without finding fanart of Rika, Hassel, Larry or any combination of them. None of them struck me as particularly pleasant (in fact my hatred of both Hassel and Larry began months before release, when they were just leaked) and I find it kind of baffling that they're so popular.

Sweet Serenity December 20th, 2022 8:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mintaka☆ (Post 10585899)
THIS, THIS, THIS! Thank you so much! I didn't take too well to her when I first played the Sinnoh games, because I didn't like that she was following me everywhere and pretending it was a coincidence. It was the incessant shilling during the period in which BD/SP and PLA were released that made me despise her, though. I mean... she got not one, but TWO possible ancestors in PLA - whom I also happen to dislike, and who explain her more unpleasant tendencies. She has also been featured in pretty much every Generation since she first appeared except Gen VI, where the equally disdainable Steven took her place. I don't get the hype for her.

Speaking of human characters I find overrated, the entire Paldea Elite Four except Poppy is this for me. It'd be a blessing if I could go on S/V-related fanart website/image boards for once without finding fanart of Rika, Hassel, Larry or any combination of them. None of them struck me as particularly pleasant (in fact my hatred of both Hassel and Larry began months before release, when they were just leaked) and I find it kind of baffling that they're so popular.

For me, Cynthia wouldn't have been so bad if many Pokémon fans didn't praise her as if she were a deity and claim that she is the toughest champion to beat in the entire series despite all her flaws. She can easily be beaten with Ice-types and walled with a good special defender as I mentioned before. I was also annoyed with her constantly following you too, but my reasons is mainly because the Sinnoh games were annoying in themselves with all their constant cutscenes. It seems that every time you reached a new area in the game, prepare for a character to cut you off and start talking to you with long lines of a dialog. Combine this with the ridiculous amount of HM slavery, Cynthia's constant appearances just didn't help matters much either.

PageEmp December 27th, 2022 1:15 AM

I can assure you all that yes, I am a straight male, but I never found the Scarle proffessor attractive at all… never did, she just seemed like a jerk to me and overall just don’t care much.

Mintaka☆ December 28th, 2022 6:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PageEmperor (Post 10587636)
I can assure you all that yes, I am a straight male, but I never found the Scarle proffessor attractive at all… never did, she just seemed like a jerk to me and overall just don’t care much.

I lean towards masculine people and both of the professors could have appealed to me to some degree, but I liked neither of them. After getting to the end of the way home... all I can say is that they both deserve to go to Hell. Together, to deal with each other for the rest of the eternity. And just like with the newly released Paldea Elite Four above, I could do without running into fanart of them every other page hop. -_-

Dastr95 January 3rd, 2023 8:32 AM

Legends: Arceus is the best Pokémon game that's sort of mainline since Platinum. I like Black and White and all, the last main game I truly enjoyed, but I actually liked Legends more.


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