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Chairman Kaga April 13th, 2004 1:50 PM

On the subject of religions changing to meet the needs of society, I don't see that as the case with Christianity. Throughout the ages, those who have been entrusted with copying and translating scripture have been held to the standard of translating it verbatim. It's gone from Jewish to Greek and Latin to all the European vernaculars to all languages and the words haven't changed. Even if a few things can't be translated verbatim, all languages have equivalants to different phrases so it's not even a question if the language barrier has done anything to scripture. The message of the King James Version is no different than the New International Version (the most accurate version outside of Hebrew), only the wording is different. One is in plain english and one is in old english. But then there are versions like the Cotton Patch Version which are incredibly messed up...they turned the Bible into a story where Jesus was born in Georgia during the great depression. That's just irresponsible. But the devotion of the faithful holds them to the high translation standards that keep the Bible the way it has always been. I don't think I've heard of a major religion that would change itself just to suit society, especially seeing as popular society hates Christianity.

So I think that ought to answer your question, Wing Zero.

~Chairman Kaga

Jess April 13th, 2004 2:07 PM

I have seen this movie like 4 or 5 times. *I forgot which x.x*.. Last time I saw it was Easter.

Greed April 13th, 2004 3:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teara
That'z why it'z a good idea to have ideaz inztead of belifez. Ideaz can be changed, belifez...if you're willing to die for them then it'z probably not very eazy to change them.

Thankz Cartoon, I actually feel zmart now

Zpeaking of rezurection, Cartoon, you zure die alot, imagine how many timez you've come back to life

That's a reason I'm not so religious, there is really no telling if those beliefs are real ;-; But hey, there must have been someone who must have created all of us. Trees and water didn't just sprout out of the earth and grew! ^^;

BTW, I come back to life everytime I post! ^-^ OMG! I was a walking and moving dead person!!! O_O;;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jess
I have seen this movie like 4 or 5 times. *I forgot which x.x*.. Last time I saw it was Easter.

You're lucky, I so loved that movie. I only got to see it once, and that was the third day it came on theaters! XD

*dies*

Teara April 13th, 2004 3:27 PM

Lol, I got that from the movie Dogma :P
But I have an Idea that there iz zomeone up there watchin all of uz ^_^

Greed April 13th, 2004 3:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teara
Lol, I got that from the movie Dogma :P
But I have an Idea that there iz zomeone up there watchin all of uz ^_^

Since when did you become so wise, Teara? XD Yeah, one reason I believe in god is cus there must be someone who made all of us. ^^

*dies*

Wing Zero April 13th, 2004 3:46 PM

science myfirend science...what came first the chicken or the egg? or how cna we prove there is ONE god if there are soo many denominations...therell be no way to ever find out sadly...but i think science is the birth of man kind and it will sadly lead the end to it also...sadly...

Greed April 13th, 2004 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing Zero
science myfirend science...what came first the chicken or the egg? or how cna we prove there is ONE god if there are soo many denominations...therell be no way to ever find out sadly...but i think science is the birth of man kind and it will sadly lead the end to it also...sadly...

But there's always questions science can't answer. Such as, who created science then? And I don't believe science will destroy us, I believe we'll (us, people, ourselves) be the ones who shall lead ourselves to our ultimate downfall.

*dies*

Teara April 13th, 2004 3:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cartoon
Since when did you become so wise, Teara? XD Yeah, one reason I believe in god is cus there must be someone who made all of us. ^^

Iziz alwayz been a zmart peopler! :P
Exactly, and I know I'm gonna regret zaying thiz but oh well, here I go >_<'''

When the thoery of evolution came out many people were offended greatly due to their religiouz belifez. They all dizagree with it inztantly azzuming that God iz a human therefor he came before apez and zo we couldn't have evolved from them. BUT what are the pozibilitiez that God wazn't human, zomeone had to create apez too right? Zure Jesus waz a man but God iz almighty therefore he could have created a human zon without being one himzelf. IF yo think about it both zidez could be right in their own wayz. While I belive we will never know the real truth about it untill perhapz we die, I do think that people tend to go overboard thinking that humanz are the very bezt of all creationz. What if we are juzt one of them? What makez uz zo pozitive that we are zo amazing that Of coureze God muzt be one of our own kind. We all know we wern't the very firzt creaturez on the planet zo why would God be human?

*takez a deep breath*
Phew! Glad I could finaly zay my ideaz out loud with out geting a detention from a teacher :P'''
BTW, zorry if I got zome of my factz wrong 0,o But that'z been on my mind for a looooong time.

Wing Zero April 13th, 2004 4:05 PM

has anyone read any of david von danikens books? hes an archaeologists, anthropologists he believs that the world to construction by aliens, rather than the work of the human people. His Chariots of the Gods included a theory that humankind arose because aliens came to earth and impregnated hominids.

thats the most prbable scientific explanation of the gods i have ever heard...just think about it...the supernatural appearance, strength...arnt the gods always protrayed as superior to man...and what about beams of light affiliated with the gods...dont aliens use beams of light for a unknow purpose? they link together...but some religious people refuse to belive this beacuse of their belifs..tisk tisk arrogance doesnt help...

*takes DEEP BREATH like Teara* ~_^

Greed April 13th, 2004 4:18 PM

That's a good point, Teara =D Can I call you "sempai"? XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing_Zero
anthropologists he believs that the world to construction by aliens, rather than the work of the human people

The why don't our "creators" aka aliens, have arrived, or destroyed all of us? If I were them, I'd destroy the humans cus humans are pretty cracked up these days =P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing_Zero
but some religious people refuse to belive this beacuse of their belifs..tisk tisk arrogance doesnt help...

Don't say that again, if you do, you're the arrogant one for bad-mouthin' people for their beliefs =/

*dies*

Teara April 13th, 2004 4:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cartoon
That's a good point, Teara =D Can I call you "sempai"? XD

Uhhhh...yeah zure...Pzzt, what'z that mean 0.0~??

Hmm, well, I don't know about allienz. I'm zure we're mizzing zomething out there but I've never thought of them az our creator, I zuppoze it'z a poziblity though. I'm actually at a lozz of wordz right now though(think I uzed em all up) about the idea zince I've never herd it before 0.0''

Greed April 13th, 2004 4:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teara
Uhhhh...yeah zure...Pzzt, what'z that mean 0.0~??

Hmm, well, I don't know about allienz. I'm zure we're mizzing zomething out there but I've never thought of them az our creator, I zuppoze it'z a poziblity though. I'm actually at a lozz of wordz right now though(think I uzed em all up) about the idea zince I've never herd it before 0.0''

~Sempai - A Japanese word used to call people of higher class, a Japanese name of respect.

^^; The alien thing seems bogus, like I said, if they really did. They would probably want us as their slaves or sumthing, honestly. Or they'd kill us for going rotten ^^;

*dies*

Wing Zero April 13th, 2004 4:31 PM

i did not intent to hurt anyone...i meant it in no bad way, it was a misconception...all i am saying is that some perople, even wthnic groups are hindered by beliefs...i am assyrian which is located, or WAS located in the middle east in mesopitamia, but i am christian. now, for example at one point of time muslims were surpream lerners and held the most knowledge of the world...but look at them nowadaays..they have feastivals enforced by beleif to do things some think as absurd...(cutting themselves with macceties to sacrifice their wrong doings for allah, etc.)
all i am saying is that theya re hindered, but mean it in no offensive way...

latiosspud April 13th, 2004 4:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaRtOON
But there's always questions science can't answer. Such as, who created science then? And I don't believe science will destroy us, I believe we'll (us, people, ourselves) be the ones who shall lead ourselves to our ultimate downfall.

*dies*

Who created god then?

Teara April 13th, 2004 4:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cartoon
~Sempai - A Japanese word used to call people of higher class, a Japanese name of respect.

^^; The alien thing seems bogus, like I said, if they really did. They would probably want us as their slaves or sumthing, honestly. Or they'd kill us for going rotten ^^;

Ohhhhh! Okay! ^_^

I dunno Wing Zero, technecly, we define allienz az beingz from another place, uzually a myzteriouz one, and izn't that zorta the caze with God? A being different from uz from a myzteriouz place...that'z my idea.

Wing Zero April 13th, 2004 4:47 PM

well all the archalogical findings von daniken has link man kinds creation to the aliens...
also, what about this theory: we are all gods...just listen i know its bogus but wait it makes sense...many ask why god, the almighty creator and surpream being, kills perople, creates murderes, killers, and bad people...or diverse people for that matter...
it is because he created us as a sort of probe, using us to fill his never ending hunger of what the world is like, he wants to experience things in different ways, i mean if you were a almighty being you cant say you would reamin suffice from the beginign to end without conflict...no i doubt you can...so since we are his prbes then we are a part of him, thus making us all gods in our own ways...

the alien theory is more probable...also just look at all cultures mithology of legendary men or people...have you ever noticed how they are reffered to as beings wiht supernatural abilities, apearnces, etc. anyways, if you dont belive ANY of this then, like i said, there are always the archeological finding to support it...

Chairman Kaga April 13th, 2004 5:50 PM

Aliens? No...I just don't see that as the case. Just hearing such a theory already labels it as very, very, improbable, and something that I, personally, do not believe.

I am a Christian, and I believe in divine creation. The thing is, I find that it's ok to not take some things literally in the Bible. Some things are only for God to fully understand...understanding the universe is beyond our grasp as mere humans, and I realize that. For one thing, I have no idea whether the world was created in six literal days or not...to quote from the Bible, to God "a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like a day" ... time is not an issue when one is immortal. I'm sure God could have allowed epochs and ages to pass and would consider it a "day", but it would be an age to us. I just believe all things were set into motion by God. Also, some elements of evolution and creation can blend perfectly. Microevolution: adaptive changes in a species: are quite evident. Just look at bacteria, they're able to mutate and fight off antibiotics. But I personally do not believe in macroevolution, or the gradual change of one species into another.

I don't understand the misconception that people see God as human, just like the rest of us. He isn't human, He is a separate being. Jesus, the human third of the Trinity, was, indeed, human, but through God was able to do what he did. He did a human death, he returned to heaven, and as God in heaven again he resurrected himself on earth. Jesus was indeed human while he was on earth. God has never been human.

Why has God ever done violence? He has only done violence when it has been necessary to do so if his church on earth is in absolute danger of being irradicated. Thus, the great flood, Soddom and Gommorah, etc. In those instances, the church was on the verge of destruction and God had the need to reassert himself. Long, long ago he was in communication with some choice followers in the continued effort for humans to safely establish the church so that they may spread their faith.

Who created God? There was no creation, as I said the ways of the universe are too mysterious for us to grasp. We know nothing of anything that goes on in our universe although we'd like to claim that we know everything. This is faith, the action of believing in something without seeing it.

This should answer anyones' questions, but let me say this: this is a topic about a movie, but it has spiraled down into a theological debate, which like all theological debates, cannot be resolved between opposing parties. I would very much like to continue talking about The Passion of the Christ, not this. This debate can only get worse and continue to divide us when we need not be divided.

Also, this topic is not meant to offend anyone of any religion, belief, or lack thereof. I have tried to be polite and explain things as I see them in a manner that, in a very basic sense, answers questions that have now arisen in this topic. I have the power to clarify things so it is only fitting that I exercise that power.

~Chairman Kaga

22sa April 14th, 2004 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostweaver
I dunno... I didn't pay much attention to you when I was watching the movie... I was either staring at my cup to stop myself from crying but not looking at the mvoie, or is crying o.o;

the fact that I was one of those freaks who was holding that cat-o-9tail... it's just sad and makes me want to cry... and everyone who did see the movie also participated playing the role as one of those soldiers who were torturing Christ. We all have sins, and Jesus wouldn't have to go through all those beatings if it isn't for these sins we have. We are the one who play the roles of those soldiers sending him up the cross... seeing that in action just how brutal it really is compare to just what's written in words is just very moving and astonishing.

lol, You shouldn't be paying attention to me during a movie anyway. =b I... really don't remember if I was crying or not but I guess I understand why most people would be. Christ died for us believers. That's really something to be joyful and thankful for, if you ask me, and not something to be sad about!

All those slashes on Him... that servant who made sure Jesus was dead on the cross, and those cruel out of control people were pretty sad though.

The movie was beautiful, at times, I'll not be more specific. Ohh, shoot it's so late now. =( I better go.

Jess April 14th, 2004 8:41 AM

heh.. I have heard the story of Jesus a zillion x a zillion x.x Every x-mas I here about the birth and Easter about the death.. And my church pounds it into ya mind every year x.x

Wing Zero April 14th, 2004 8:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chairman Kaga
Why has God ever done violence? He has only done violence when it has been necessary to do so if his church on earth is in absolute danger of being irradicated. Thus, the great flood, Soddom and Gommorah, etc. In those instances, the church was on the verge of destruction and God had the need to reassert himself. Long, long ago he was in communication with some choice followers in the continued effort for humans to safely establish the church so that they may spread their faith.

~Chairman Kaga

well then why does he create rapists? or murderers? or killers? or gangsters? or evil people that do arm to others? whatbout adolf hitler, why did god create him?
well my secondary theory listed could explain that right?

Jess April 14th, 2004 8:49 AM

heh... The cool thing is God knew that everything in the future would happen.He knew when ya were gonna wake up this morning. XD! And he knew Hitler was gonan be a stupid person..And that Saddam was gonna get captured, and that 9/11 was gonna happen x.x

Wing Zero April 14th, 2004 8:55 AM

then my question is, what kind of god whould allow that and for what reasons? why would he allow mass murders, killings, executions?
by the way i myself am a christian

Jess April 14th, 2004 8:56 AM

heh.. Im no Minister/Preacher/Pastor ...If ya is a Christian then ask ya Minister/Preacher person x.x

Wing Zero April 14th, 2004 8:58 AM

no im sending this question out to all who opposed me in this discussion...
ill repeat it why would god create killers, murderes, wars, plauge, death, adolf hitler, sadaam husane, osa bin laden, pearl harbour? why would he allow that?

Greed April 14th, 2004 9:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing_Zero
no im sending this question out to all who opposed me in this discussion...
ill repeat it why would god create killers, murderes, wars, plauge, death, adolf hitler, sadaam husane, osa bin laden, pearl harbour? why would he allow that?

God has not allowed it, the Enemy has gotten into their heads. God's intentions for all of us to be pure, unfourtunately, the Enemy wants to make us bad. And besides, that's why God gave us a conscience. To know from good or bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by latiosspudd
Who created god then?

That is a question that still remains unanswered in my head @@;

*dies*


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