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-   -   3rd Gen um...unevolved pokemon? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=71642)

mrmiatch July 9th, 2006 4:58 PM

um...unevolved pokemon?
 
not that im using this guy until the end or anything, i was just raising a swuirtle and evolved him to wartortle as the story goes and im thinking about keeping him as wartortle. i know blastoise is a tank and can destroy but i was just wondering what you all thought about unevolved pokemon and making them strong since theyre one of your favorites?

Neo Android July 9th, 2006 5:12 PM

I have an unevolved eevee on my leaf green which is like at Lv100 and i have an eevee on Emerald that is Lv32 and im not eveloving that. I have however have all of eevees evolutions through breeding. I think some time a pokemon can become stronger when not evolving quicker. I just keep eevee as she is though cause its my fav Pokemon

aragornbird July 9th, 2006 6:14 PM

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That’s not true, all evolved Pokemon are stronger than unevolved Pokemon no matter when you evolve them. But keep it a Wartortle if you want. Its your game so you get to do whatever you please.

Just don’t use Wartortle when battling against other people because it will get creamed. =(

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enyce July 9th, 2006 6:51 PM

I love unevolved pokemon too

I never evolved my Grovyle =( ...But I have a Sceptile for actual battling

Flamman July 11th, 2006 10:05 AM

i keep my torchic forever to be torchic, but i, as well, have a blaziken to do the fighhting.

Smarties-chan July 11th, 2006 10:13 AM

I'm actually currently playing Ruby through without evolving any of my Pokémon (Apart from Torchic, which I'll keep as a Combusken and Tyrogue, because those two Pokémon just plain suck. =\). So far I have had no trouble at all. Roxanne gave me quite a hard time, though. The only Pokémon I had that could deal any real damage to her Pokémon was an Aipom with Iron Tail. n_n Snorunt and Torchic got their butts kicked right away, Tyrogue was just pathetic, Ralts isn't exactly the best choice against physical attackers and I haven't decided on my last party Pokémon yet.

So as you see, Aipom was my best choice against Roxanne. O.o

Katakoe July 12th, 2006 12:41 AM

Un-evolved pokemon have the advantage of usually learning their moves earlier. But when they evolve they get more power {speed, attack]

Ria July 12th, 2006 12:48 AM

Well, it depends on the pokemon, really, and of your definition of a fun game ^^; I mean, just about anyone can be a bigshot and waltz through the E4 with a pack of uber-powerful high-level pokemon roaring from behind his back, but if you prefer to use a bit of strategy, play the game longer and such, then go ahead and keep your wartortle. They're cool ^^; Personally, I prefer playing with unevolved, not-quite evolved or pokemon which don't evolve at all because I find it fun ^^; Plus, the unevolved pokemon are sooo cute! (there I said it :embarrass )

Ultimate_Evil July 13th, 2006 4:05 PM

if you want your pokemon to be weaker go ahead. blastoise is just stronger.

Jenvy July 28th, 2006 9:16 PM

True, the evolved Pokemon are stronger stat-wise, but there are a lot of moves you can only learn at certain evolutionary stages. Therefore, in some ways, unevolved Pokemon can be stronger.

shanecdavis July 29th, 2006 4:46 AM

Please provide an example where a pre-evolution learns a more powerful move than a fully evolved Poke because I don't believe there is one. While pre-evolved forms can learn moves EARLIER than evolved forms and sometimes DIFFERENT moves, they don't more powerful moves. The closest examples I can think of to what you are talking about are Scyther/Scizor and Slowbro/Slowking. Both examples do fine on their own and Slowbro is even a better choice competitively, but all evolved Pokes are stronger.

If you like unevolved forms because they are cuter, then that is fine, that is your choice. The game isn't like cartoon though. Your Wartortle won't be taking on any good fully evolved Pokes and win any time soon. Well, unless you are playing in-game against the AI, of course. Then even Squirtle could end up being a good choice.

Jenvy July 30th, 2006 3:26 AM

There are a few examples off the top of my head, like Treeko and Mega/Giga Drain, Torchic and Flamethrower, and Slakoth and Focus Punch.

All in all, you are correct. I was just saying how you can learn useful and powerful moves by not evolving. Of course, the best plan would be to evolve after you learn the move, to get strong stats too. It all depends on if the move is really worth waiting for. =)

shanecdavis July 30th, 2006 3:52 AM

Treecko may learn Giga Drain naturally, but it cannot learn Leaf Blade, which is far and away the most powerful Grass-type move in the game, or Earthquake or even Dragon Claw, like Sceptile. Torchic may learn Flamethrower naturally, but it cannot learn Sky Uppercut or Bulk Up or Earthquake like Blaziken can. Slakoth doesn't learn Focus Punch naturally, that is Vigoroth. Slakoth also cannot learn Earthquake. Vigoroth is, however, another example of a pre-evolution that is still usable. Not as powerful as Slaking, but not hampered by Truant either.

You pretty much summed it up though, that pre-evolutions can learn certain move sooner than their evolved counterparts, but final evolutions are always stronger, more versatile, and have better movesets.

Jenvy July 30th, 2006 5:14 AM

I accept my defeat in this argument. T_T
Ah, well... I won't join the debate team any time soon! ^.^

Lord Mike July 30th, 2006 5:56 PM

It depends. Pikachu is awesome because of Light Ball. Clamperl is great too because at level 100 it can have as much as 270 Special Attack, which can be doubled by DeepSeaTooth to reach an amazing 540!

Scyther has better Speed than Scizor, while Scizor has better Defense.
Nincada has good Defense, while Ninjask has good Attack and truely incredible Speed. There is much to consider about evolution.

shanecdavis July 30th, 2006 6:03 PM

Sigh. Pikachu and Clamperl have to hold special items in order to be effective. That has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Scyther has already been covered. If you want to use Nincada over Ninjask, be my guest. There is no denying which is the better of the two though.

Kraka-chan August 5th, 2006 12:29 AM

Hasn't anyone mentiond that there are some moves that an evolved Pokemon can learn that an unevolved one can't. Say Charizard, once it evolves from Charmeleon, it can learn Wing Attack. Xatu, once evolved from Natu, can be taught Fly.

Yeah, I like some of these Pokemon because they're cute as they are. It'd be great if they had the oppertunity to take on a real opponent like Mewtwo and win.

Spencer August 6th, 2006 1:02 PM

Well I don't really like the pre evolutions. I like the last evolution usually. So I don't think I have ever stoped one of my pokemon from evolving.

Toothache August 7th, 2006 2:16 AM

Not all pre-evolutions are bad. Chansey is perfectly useable, as is Scyther. Vigoroth, Shelgon, Kadabra, there are certain Pokemon that still have uses even without evolving.

Kraka-chan August 7th, 2006 10:09 AM

And Vigoroth doesn't slack off on you all the time.
I also find Pikachu slightly better than Raichu (it could just be me though).

aragornbird August 7th, 2006 10:42 AM

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Yeah, but Slaking can hit harder in one turn than Vigoroth can in two.
And Pikachu is only better than Raichu if it has both the Light Ball and Surf, and good luck getting those two.

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Volta. August 8th, 2006 5:27 AM

I thought you could only get surfing pikachu through an event.
I learned the hard way about how weak the 1st evolutions were when I kept my Treecko from evolving cause Sceptile was so ugly (to me). My lv.100 Treecko had similar stats to my Lv.60 Latias that I was training. :shocked:

aragornbird August 8th, 2006 6:03 PM

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Well duh, that’s because your Treecko is 40 levels higher. That doesn’t make it good. If you trained your Latias to lv. 100, it would have much better stats than Treecko will ever have.

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WEIRDBOY44 August 8th, 2006 6:18 PM

pardon my never posting before, but I feel I need respond to this, although your pokemon will become stronger with evolution, does not mean it doesn't have the potential to have the strength that its evolution has, use items like protiens and calciums(but I guess you could do that with the evolutions too and make them stronger :P)

shanecdavis August 8th, 2006 8:00 PM

That is a common misperception with new trainers. What you fail to realize is that while you can use vitamins to increase your pre-evolutions to make their stats higher, you can also do the same thing with fully evolved Pokes to widen the gap once again. I am not understanding how this thread keeps living. Let me throw out a comparison to you, using a Lv100 Treecko and a Lv100 Sceptile. Let's even cheat and give both Pokes 31 IVs in every stat. Both Pokes also have had no EV training and have neutral Natures. First, here are the stats for Treecko:

Lv100 Treecko
HP: 221
Atk: 126
Def: 106
SAtk: 166
SDef: 146
Spd: 176

Now, let's compare them to the stats of a Sceptile:

Lv100 Sceptile
HP: 281
Atk: 206
Def: 166
SAtk: 246
SDef: 206
Spd: 276

No comparison, whatsoever, Now, let's pump our Treecko full of steroids......errrrr I mean "vitamins". Remember that you can only feed vitamins to a Poke until that stat has 100 EV points and that it takes 4 EV points to increase a stat by 1 point. That said, keep in mind that a Poke can only have a total of 510 EV points added to their stats. That means 510/6=85 and 85/4=21.25. To sum up, you can increase one stat by 22, and the rest by 21. Here are Treecko's stats, with the average stats included:

Lv100 Treecko
HP: 242
Atk: 147
Def: 127
SAtk: 187
SDef: 167
Spd: 198

As you can see, you are still not even close to the base stats of a Sceptile and we haven't even EV trained the Sceptile yet either. So, since averaging out a stat doesn't work, let's focus our EVs on a particular stat. The limit you can increase EVs on a Poke is 255, which means we can make out 2 stats, which will increase the stat by 63. Let's focus on SAtk and Spd, since that is what the Sceptile family is good at. Here are Treecko's stats again.

Lv100 Treecko
HP: 221
Atk: 126
Def: 106
SAtk: 229
SDef: 146
Spd: 239

Even with the two stats maxed, they STILL aren't as high as our untouched Sceptile. Not to mention the fact that the other stats that weren't maxed are much lower. Okay, last example. Let's cheat again and max out every stat. This is illegal and can only be done by cheating, but this is for arguments sake. So every stat on our Treecko increases by 63:

Lv100 Treecko
HP: 284
Atk: 189
Def: 169
SAtk: 229
SDef: 209
Spd: 239

In case you have forgotten, here is our Lv100 Sceptile that has still not received any EV training:

Lv100 Sceptile
HP: 281
Atk: 206
Def: 166
SAtk: 246
SDef: 206
Spd: 276

End result, our illegal Treecko is only 3 points higher in HP, Def, and SDef, while it is still 17 points short in Atk and SAtk, and a whopping 37 points behind in Spd. You can even give your Poke a beneficial Nature, which will increase one stat by 22 points, but it will also reduce another by 22.

So, as you can clearly see, even a cheated Treecko cannot match up to an untouched Sceptile. You can battle with unevolved Pokes because they are cute or what not, but PLEASE don't fool yourself into thinking that a pre-evolution can in any way be as strong as its fully evolved version.


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