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-   -   Bad graphics? Bad construction? Bad game? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=78959)

acrof May 15th, 2007 11:03 AM

Quote:

But you're missing one important point; if they give the Pokémon textures they might not look like Pokémon anymore, which I'm sure, they don't want to risk. I say they should try cell shading. That would look totally awesome. <3
If think they should at last try to do it, and call a bunch of pokemon fans to judge the results.
If the result were good they should make a commercial game.
About cell shading:
Great idea, but I still think they should try to make some realistic pokemons, and release the pictures of them in the internet, so we (fans) could judge them.


But there are things that I can´t understand:
Why did they remove the arena destruction shown in the first preview of PBR?

That , I have to say, would be the most amazing feature in PBR.

Cross May 15th, 2007 11:21 AM

While I have disagreed with you mostly Acrof, I must agree with the fact that it was stupid they took out the "Attack effect Arena" addition. That was what I was looking forward to most, and they took it out. It probably required too much data, though.

Law07 May 15th, 2007 12:10 PM

Or they wanted to be stupid and think that "Oh no we cant put THAT kind of violence in weely little kids might be scared of a hyper beam coming from a Space Monster destroying the arena!111
So lets just have a hyper beam coming from a Space Monster!!! Not scary at all =]"

Kids suck

Cross May 15th, 2007 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craiglaw2006 (Post 2482008)
Or they wanted to be stupid and think that "Oh no we cant put THAT kind of violence in weely little kids might be scared of a hyper beam coming from a Space Monster destroying the arena!111
So lets just have a hyper beam coming from a Space Monster!!! Not scary at all =]"

Kids suck

They're afraid of these kids seeing violence, while I saw two 6 year olds watching the movie "300" in theaters. =/

acrof May 15th, 2007 1:23 PM

Quote:

They're afraid of these kids seeing violence, while I saw two 6 year olds watching the movie "300" in theaters. =/
Sad, but true...

Quote:

That was what I was looking forward to most, and they took it out. It probably required too much data, though.
I don´t think that way, you see, whenever they need more space they can use 2 DVD discs to make the game. Just like other games do.

Cross May 15th, 2007 3:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acrof (Post 2482114)
Sad, but true...

I don´t think that way, you see, whenever they need more space they can use 2 DVD discs to make the game. Just like other games do.

The game producing company would have too much trouble creating two discs a package, and PBR would have to be charged, by costumers, minimally over $65.00 a game package. It would cost too much, less people would buy it for the price, and Gamefreaks funding would go down as they make more and people buy less.

It's a matter of marketing, price ranges and the expense of a product. Possibly 1 Mil. PBR copys would be sold after 4 days, minimum.

And I've never seen a company that uses TWO discs for one game.

Andrea-chan May 15th, 2007 8:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yutss (Post 2482380)
The game producing company would have too much trouble creating two discs a package, and PBR would have to be charged, by costumers, minimally over $65.00 a game package. It would cost too much, less people would buy it for the price, and Gamefreaks funding would go down as they make more and people buy less.

It's a matter of marketing, price ranges and the expense of a product. Possibly 1 Mil. PBR copys would be sold after 4 days, minimum.

And I've never seen a company that uses TWO discs for one game.

Lets say PBR is on 2 discs, why would it cost over $65? Just because it has 2 discs in the box? Why would it be so hard for them to make a 2 disc package?
If a game like Happy Feet was put on two discs it would be $65 just because it's a 2 disc game? No. The price of games is based off of development costs, and how well the game is likely to sell. A game like Happy Feet wouldn't have sold well at $50, so they had to bring it down right from the start. And to top it all off, Nintendo said none of their first (and I'm gussing second as well) party games are going to be over $50.

PBR couldn't sell 1 million copies in 4 days if it wanted to (well, sure it could. Drop the price down to 5 bucks and it'd sell like crazy). It took Diamond and Pearl 5 days to break 1 mill sells in the US. And a lot of people got both Dimaond and Pearl. There aren't two copies of Pokemon Battle Revolution for everyone to buy.

And you have never seen a company that uses more than once disc for a game? I've seen games that have 3 and 4 discs, does that count? You might want to get into gaming a little more. Final Fantasy VII, VIII, and IX all use 3-4 discs for the games (most of the Square games on the PS used at least 2 discs). Tales of Symphonia and Resident Evil Zero both on the GC both used two discs. And Blue Dragon for the XBox 360 is going to use 3 discs.


I am let down by what was taken out of PBR. When I saw the first trailer and saw Hyper Beam (or whatever attack it was) dig a groove in the ground and I said to myself "This is what I've been wanting in a console Pokemon game". I had high hopes for the game, not on the graphics side as much as updaing a lot of things (Pokemon really hitting each other, attacks like Hyper Beam digging up the ground, Thunder making rocks fly, Earthquake breaking up the ground, etc). But sadly, PBR just didn't stand up to what I had hoped for.

Cross May 16th, 2007 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrea-chan (Post 2482721)
Lets say PBR is on 2 discs, why would it cost over $65? Just because it has 2 discs in the box? Why would it be so hard for them to make a 2 disc package?
If a game like Happy Feet was put on two discs it would be $65 just because it's a 2 disc game? No. The price of games is based off of development costs, and how well the game is likely to sell. A game like Happy Feet wouldn't have sold well at $50, so they had to bring it down right from the start. And to top it all off, Nintendo said none of their first (and I'm gussing second as well) party games are going to be over $50.

Productions cost would make the game sell for more so Gamefreak would collect more money than wat they put in it. But I'm not so good in the economic world, so you're probably right.
Quote:

PBR couldn't sell 1 million copies in 4 days if it wanted to (well, sure it could. Drop the price down to 5 bucks and it'd sell like crazy). It took Diamond and Pearl 5 days to break 1 mill sells in the US. And a lot of people got both Dimaond and Pearl. There aren't two copies of Pokemon Battle Revolution for everyone to buy.
But more people have Wii, and this is the fisrt Wii game with online gameplay. Isn't it remotely possible it will be more of a hit than D/P?
Quote:

And you have never seen a company that uses more than once disc for a game? I've seen games that have 3 and 4 discs, does that count? You might want to get into gaming a little more. Final Fantasy VII, VIII, and IX all use 3-4 discs for the games (most of the Square games on the PS used at least 2 discs). Tales of Symphonia and Resident Evil Zero both on the GC both used two discs. And Blue Dragon for the XBox 360 is going to use 3 discs.
Pardon, but I don't think I WANT to get into the gaming world a little bit more.
Nintendo is my side hobby besides football. It's not my life where I buy ever FF game and sit in my room with a bag of M&Ms and a Pepsi, all the while saying "Dah! Flicking fingers on remote make person on TV move! Ahar!"
And isn't it remotely sad that people pay for 4 disc video games when they could read a book or take up a sport? My god.
Quote:

I am let down by what was taken out of PBR. When I saw the first trailer and saw Hyper Beam (or whatever attack it was) dig a groove in the ground and I said to myself "This is what I've been wanting in a console Pokemon game". I had high hopes for the game, not on the graphics side as much as updaing a lot of things (Pokemon really hitting each other, attacks like Hyper Beam digging up the ground, Thunder making rocks fly, Earthquake breaking up the ground, etc). But sadly, PBR just didn't stand up to what I had hoped for.
This I agree on. PBR looked tremendously awesome in the first preveiw, and then WHAM! They took out what was to be the best part. I'm suprised they even kept the "Pokemon Physically Hit Eachother" in.

While this games Gameplay and graphics are good, PBR isn't near what Nintendo THEMSELVES said it was going to be. Not many battle arenas, either. (10? Come on!!)

The game lacks what it should've had most, but it's graphics are tremendous. Anyone seen the Ice beam attack model? Or the solarbeam one? Both had such good quality, it made me want to import a copy from japan right that second.

MrRandomIDon'tCare May 16th, 2007 8:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yutss (Post 2482978)
Nintendo is my side hobby besides football. It's not my life where I buy ever FF game and sit in my room with a bag of M&Ms and a Pepsi, all the while saying "Dah! Flicking fingers on remote make person on TV move! Ahar!"

lol, i agree. i hate it when ppl think that everyone who plays games are nerds who sit in front of computers all day.


DMJ

acrof May 17th, 2007 9:08 AM

Quote:

The game lacks what it should've had most, but it's graphics are tremendous. Anyone seen the Ice beam attack model? Or the solarbeam one? Both had such good quality, it made me want to import a copy from japan right that second.
Don´t foget about Hydro Cannon, Blast Burn and Frenzy Plant, they´re awesome too!
I AMLOST FORGOT! SURF! THIS ATTACK IS AMAZING IN PBR!

But the fact of using some 3D models from stadium, to release this game sooner.... Blarg....
I was really disappointed when I realized that...

TyRaNiTaR May 17th, 2007 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acrof (Post 2484179)
But the fact of using some 3D models from stadium

I have no idea what your talking about.. I compared the said PBR Venasaur and Charizard to Stadium 1 and 2 Venasaur and Chariard...
While they look similar, they surface tendence is much smoother, most likely due to more segment additions... and the movement seems to flow easier... Not to metnion Nintendo got off their butts to actually make every shiny form of a pokemon now...

Also.. I also noticed that you said the "Hexagonal" Pokeball... while I have seen it... have you ever considered it was made that way? to add to the decorative touch?

Again, The Fire, Water, and Ice attacks look ungodly awsome.. freshly made particle systems added with awsome animation and graphics.. PBR has THE BEST Graphics on the Wii currently (Besides MP3 and SSBB)

Gameplay? Excuse me.. PBR Isnt suposed to have a storyline... its another Stadium... Whats not to love? I mean.. common? Not to mention the Online addition and the custom avatars... Battling via WiFi has never looked so real... sadly... no voice chat (Unless Nintendo decides to add another speaker to the WiiMote, since techniclly, the one used currently is also the ones used in modern cell phones :))

Also, You can change the cair color and length ;)
You jsut havent seen it yet...

Legacy May 18th, 2007 5:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yutss (Post 2482978)
But more people have Wii, and this is the fisrt Wii game with online gameplay. Isn't it remotely possible it will be more of a hit than D/P?

There are waaaay more DS owners than there are current Wii owners. Worldwide, the Wii hasn't sold much more than 7,000,000 consoles yet, so in order for it to sell 1,000,000 Wii games, 1 in 7 people would have to buy it.

And as Andrea said, Pokémon Diamond and Pearl combined sold one million after five days and a good portion of the people that bought Diamond also bought Pearl.

So it's damn near impossible for PBR to sell quicker than DP, and there are two reasons why.

Quote:

Pardon, but I don't think I WANT to get into the gaming world a little bit more.
Nintendo is my side hobby besides football. It's not my life where I buy ever FF game and sit in my room with a bag of M&Ms and a Pepsi, all the while saying "Dah! Flicking fingers on remote make person on TV move! Ahar!"
And isn't it remotely sad that people pay for 4 disc video games when they could read a book or take up a sport? My god.
Do you realise how hypocritical you sound right there? So, there's nothing wrong with you just because Nintendo is your hobby, but people who have general gaming as a hobby have no life?

I have a girlfriend, full time job, part time studying, am captain of my soccer team, play in a pool team and go out with friends at the weekend. Yet I still find time to play Final Fantasy and other games. My life is pretty damn balanced, so where's the problem there?

Just because you're too narrow minded to realise your own hypocrisy, doesn't give you a right to put others down.

This I agree on. PBR looked tremendously awesome in the first preveiw, and then WHAM! They took out what was to be the best part. I'm suprised they even kept the "Pokemon Physically Hit Eachother" in.

While this games Gameplay and graphics are good, PBR isn't near what Nintendo THEMSELVES said it was going to be. Not many battle arenas, either. (10? Come on!!)

The game lacks what it should've had most, but it's graphics are tremendous. Anyone seen the Ice beam attack model? Or the solarbeam one? Both had such good quality, it made me want to import a copy from japan right that second.[/QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonMaster Jet
lol, i agree. i hate it when ppl think that everyone who plays games are nerds who sit in front of computers all day.

That's EXACTLY what he was saying, too.

acrof May 18th, 2007 9:14 AM

Quote:

I have no idea what your talking about.. I compared the said PBR Venasaur and Charizard to Stadium 1 and 2 Venasaur and Chariard...
While they look similar, they surface tendence is much smoother
I said some 3D models.
Bulbasaur, Charmander, Squirtle, and respective evolutions were remodeled, but most of them (the old ones) are still using 3D models from Stadium...
EX: Arcanine, Slowbro, Exeggutor, etc.

Gary, the Magic Fairy May 20th, 2007 10:18 PM

Quote:

*PS:Actualy the original japanese Pokemon Stadium IS a 10 year old game.
Um.. are you sure? The original version, which I doubt you've ever played, was released in '98. That would be nine years, correct? Also, I assume you're talking about the other Stadium (the 2nd Japanese), since slowbro wasn't even IN stadium 1. Stick to one stadium if you must compare them.

Quote:

Would you like to see Diamond and Pearl with Gold/Silver graphics???
Seriously? You're comparing total changes from GS >> DP with limited amounts and choices of color with the minor differences between these stadium models -that you insist are the same- and the PBR graphics, which have hardly any noticable differences?
Btw, I would like it. I don't judge things on looks and completely ignore everything else.

Has anyone actually posted pictures of these for comparing? {{If so, could you post them again? I don't feel like looking through 10 pages.}} I'll bet there are some differences between them.

~*!*~Tatsujin Gosuto~*!*~ May 25th, 2007 3:27 PM

here is a picture that i found in another thread

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f293/acrof/typhlosion.jpg


But what I'm scared of is this thread may turn into the other one


:t354:~*!*~Queen Boo~*!*~

Juliette♥ May 30th, 2007 5:34 AM

You have to understand that the Wii isn't capable of really super amazing awesome graphics - Nintendo have always been more focused on gameplay. Pokemon games are known for their awesome gameplay, so what have we to worry about? The graphics look amazing for the Wii. Just remember what system this is on - the Wii won't be able to do much more than the PS2 really as far as graphics are concerned.

Te-em May 30th, 2007 10:45 PM

But Zelda has good graphics and Final Fantasy Crystal Cronicles (to GC) have amazing graphics.

acrof May 31st, 2007 6:15 AM

Quote:

But Zelda has good graphics and Final Fantasy Crystal Cronicles (to GC) have amazing graphics.
You got it.
If other companies can make a game with amazing graphics in the GameCube, what should we expect from a company (with lots of money, probaly more than Square itself) making a game for a Wii?

Juliette♥ June 1st, 2007 1:34 AM

Twilight Princess's graphics weren't even made for the Wii, originally all that was done on the GameCube. You can get all those graphics on the GameCube, TP looks exactly the same on it.

PBR is so jam-packed with moves and sounds and all this stuff that they don't have enough space to go massive on graphics either. We should be grateful that they've put so much into it and STILL has pretty decent graphics. They aren't amazing, for a reason!

Bombsey June 1st, 2007 5:50 AM

I don't understand.

Why can't we compare Pokémon to other games? Is Pokémon that all holy?

I don't need to play the game to realise this: It's Pokémon. In 3D. It's nothing new.

Oh wow! Character models! They obviously take up so much that they can't actually put anything new in there!

And by the way, the Wii is just a compact GameCube with a gimmick.

Oh, and one last thing.

Pokémon is outdated. Very very outdated. Even Final Fantasy has broken away from turnbased gameplay.

acrof June 1st, 2007 1:56 PM

Quote:

PBR is so jam-packed with moves and sounds and all this stuff that they don't have enough space to go massive on graphics either. We should be grateful that they've put so much into it and STILL has pretty decent graphics. They aren't amazing, for a reason!
I doubt.
If Stadium could handle 251 pokemon in 64 megabytes (memory capacity of a N64 cartridge) why cannot a DVD with 8.000 megabytes store more things in PBR?

Some will say: What about the shinies, and the gender differences, and the arenas?

1- Stadium 2 had 251 shinies too! Total of 502 3D models in a 64 megabytes cartridge.
Some will also think: But PBR models uses much more space than the ones in Stadium 2!
That can be true, but do the math:
PBR probly has 2 models for each pokemon (2 X 493= 986) Let´s put 100 more to the trainer´s models so in PBR we have < 1086 3D models.
Now if we divide the data storage of a DVD with the amount that fits in a N64 cartidge (8.000 / 64= 125) So a DVD can store 125 Stadium 2, right? So a DVD can store 62750 stadium 2 models. O.o
Even dividing that by 10 it would fit much more models in a DVD.

So we can conclude that: it´s just an excuse!

2- There´s no gender differences in PBR.

3- The arenas are actualy pretty small, just the main circle (where the pokemon battle) is really the arena, all the rest is an empty space fulfilled by visual effects (trees, sky, sun, etc)

If one day i buy this game I´ll extrac it´s .iso file just to see how much space it uses in a DVD.

Cross June 2nd, 2007 5:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acrof (Post 2507656)
2- There´s no gender differences in PBR.

Bull. I saw a Pikachu with an indent in it's tail before.

fearow23 June 3rd, 2007 5:05 AM

What gets me mad about the game was the promise of destruction in the stages. It never happened. I watched movies on youtube over and over and never found any stage get destroyed by a Pokemon's move.

ShadowTails June 3rd, 2007 2:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acrof
I doubt.
If Stadium could handle 251 pokemon in 64 megabytes (memory capacity of a N64 cartridge) why cannot a DVD with 8.000 megabytes store more things in PBR?

Some will say: What about the shinies, and the gender differences, and the arenas?

1- Stadium 2 had 251 shinies too! Total of 502 3D models in a 64 megabytes cartridge.
Some will also think: But PBR models uses much more space than the ones in Stadium 2!
That can be true, but do the math:
PBR probly has 2 models for each pokemon (2 X 493= 986) Let´s put 100 more to the trainer´s models so in PBR we have < 1086 3D models.
Now if we divide the data storage of a DVD with the amount that fits in a N64 cartidge (8.000 / 64= 125) So a DVD can store 125 Stadium 2, right? So a DVD can store 62750 stadium 2 models. O.o
Even dividing that by 10 it would fit much more models in a DVD.

wrong, there are in actuality 276 models in Pokemon Stadium 2, 251 and 25 other Unowns, the shiny Pokemon are just different textures, and textures on the N64, not as advanced as they are today on other systems... and Models... they don't take up a whole lot of space, usually voicing and music takes up the most space in a game... so, you could literally have a few million models in a game, but still... I really don't see why Pokemon Company should make 493 brand new models... and then model everything else... as I said before, if you think those are bad, pay a visit to the majority of the rom hacks here.

Te-em June 3rd, 2007 11:40 PM

I played Dragon Quest to PS2 yesterday. It was cellshading. The characters looked somewhat 2D, but I wished Pokémon had that graphics.
I still wonder though, how can newer Pokémon games have less good graphics than old ones. BR is not that way, but Stadium looks better than Colloseum, actually.


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