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-   -   3rd Gen Most Frustrating Gym Leader? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=80774)

SkyAttack March 7th, 2007 11:25 AM

Most Frustrating Gym Leader?
 
I'm curious to know which Gym Leader you found the most frustrating/difficult in Pokemon Emerald.

I had never let all(or even most) of my Pokemon team faint in battle until I fought Winona, the flying master of Fortree City. Most of her team wasn't too difficult, but her Altaria kept taking out my team using Earthquake. The Pokemon that I have who aren't vulnerable to Earthquake were vulnerable to Aerial Ace. It was so frustrating, and it took three attempts before I finally won using the right Pkmn in the right matchups. Poseidon, my Marshtomp claimed the victory against Altaria. :)

Who have you had problems battling with? Obviously people like the Elite Four and such are difficult, but I'm curious about all of the other in-game trainers/gym leaders. Anyone else had issues with Winona?

~*!*~Tatsujin Gosuto~*!*~ March 7th, 2007 1:40 PM

I've never had any type of trouble with the gym leaders maybe except for Tate and Liza but my team was pretty balanced at that time

:t354:~*!*~Queen Boo~*!*~

PokemonRox March 7th, 2007 1:43 PM

same. i had trouble with tate and liza

Barboach March 7th, 2007 1:51 PM

I never really had troble with any of them, but Tate and Liza were only hard on my weezing. But thats all they did.

Always and Never March 7th, 2007 2:03 PM

Tate and Liza were good against my team. I had an obvious psychic weakness, XD

SkyAttack March 7th, 2007 7:42 PM

Tate and Liza? Now I'm curious to see what these people are all about. :D

I think my main problem with Winona was the fact that I was using:

*Tropius
*Swellow
^^Both weak against Aerial Ace

*Trapinch
*Magnemite
*Aron
*Marshtomp
^^All weak against Earthquake

All were between level 26-35. I've changed out Tropius to try out Kecleon for awhile. I love my team, but they all had a major weakness to one of her two best moves. Oh well, it adds a challenge I suppose. :)

Bkue March 7th, 2007 7:59 PM

My trouble was Bradly in Dewford. I didnt catch any flying or physcic (sp?) types. So I had to go back to Petalburg (cant remember name of routes) to catch a Ralts. And Now Im glad I did, Gardivoir is one of my favorite pokemon. <3

But, other than that I have to agree, Tate And Liza were very hard to beat. Rock = Good defence, Psycic (still sp) = Good Attack (or SpAttack if you want to be picky)

Samson March 7th, 2007 8:35 PM

tate and liza? delcatty destroyed those suckers XD

and umm swellow is NOT weak against aerial ace ._. ... and umm tropius is not a good pokemon. it's barely decent... you should really consider replacing it. i say switch it for a fighting type. breloom is good.

Dee Trier March 7th, 2007 9:46 PM

And Neither of marshtomp and trapinch weak to earthquake =/

Tate and Liza is hard because it is double and I mostly just use starter

raubie March 8th, 2007 4:09 AM

Yeah, tate and liza we're pretty anoying, I managed to beat them with my gardevoir and sceptile though. oh yeah and, what's her name again? Flannery? yeah, my sceptile fainted (duh) but I managed to take her down with my Armaldo.

Smarties-chan March 8th, 2007 5:24 AM

Though the in-game AI is ridiculously bad and all in-game trainers have scary movesets, Tate and Liza did give me some trouble in Emerald. The main problem was that I had neglected my training (I wanted to get the National Dex as soon as possible) and I didn't exactly have the best line-up against Tate and Liza. Machamp was practically useless in that battle, all their Pokémon ganged up against Swampert, Gardevoir didn't do too much damage with Thunderbolt, Sceptile was too fragile and Dodrio was totally owned by Lunatone and Solrock. If I would have had access to all the moves I wanted for my Pokémon, Tate and Liza wouldn't have been any trouble at all, but my male Sceptile would have required breeding for Leech Seed (so I would have needed Ditto) and needed Substitute, too, so yeah... =\ If only that darn Xatu wouldn't have been there. Xatu was what made Sceptile completely useless in that battle.
Quote:

I think my main problem with Winona was the fact that I was using:

*Tropius
*Swellow
^^Both weak against Aerial Ace

*Trapinch
*Magnemite
*Aron
*Marshtomp
^^All weak against Earthquake

All were between level 26-35. I've changed out Tropius to try out Kecleon for awhile. I love my team, but they all had a major weakness to one of her two best moves. Oh well, it adds a challenge I suppose.
Reply With Quote
Swellow isn't weak to Flying type moves and Trapinch and Marshtomp aren't weak against Ground type moves. ._.

shanecdavis March 8th, 2007 6:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samson (Post 2405446)
tate and liza? delcatty destroyed those suckers XD

and umm swellow is NOT weak against aerial ace ._. ... and umm tropius is not a good pokemon. it's barely decent... you should really consider replacing it. i say switch it for a fighting type. breloom is good.

I do hope your comment about Delcatty was meant facetiously. You call Tropius barely decent, but Delcatty is the weakest and most worthless full evolution Poke in the game. It has no advantage over any type, doesn't have the stats to hit hard, and doesn't have the stats to take a hit. Delcatty is only used for its "cuteness" factor. At least Tropius has some use.

As for the pathetic gym leaders, the only problem I have ever had was with Misty in FRLG. Her Staryu/Starmie have surprisingly high levels at that point in the game and I refuse to waste time having to level up my team to those levels or wasting time catching and raising a Grass-type. I just jump in an hope for the best.

Legendary Squirtle March 8th, 2007 6:49 AM

I have to go with Lize and Tate too. It forced me to catch Absol and pick up my Trapich from the day care. Im just glad that it wasn't they strongest gym leader.

Samson March 8th, 2007 10:04 AM

shane, i know, delcatty SUCKS, but i used it to the best of its ability and it DID do well even in the Elite 4. believe it or not, but it destroyed the dragon elite four guy. it's moveset was attract, charm, faint attack and ice beam. sure, that's the problem with in-game battling, but the grass/flying type just didn't do much in ruby. my tropius just kept dying. i remember being mad because i used the Sunny Day TM on it XD

and yah, that starmie was tough in FR/LG... i went back to viridian forest and caught a pikachu, which sucked cus i HATE pikachu. but it still was quite useless after raising it to around lvl 20, so i just depended on wartortle and bite to do the job, which it eventually did.

Rhetorical March 8th, 2007 10:52 AM

I'm gonna have to say Tate and Liza too. They are so annoying! I got really frustrated the first (and second/third/fourth xD) time I battled them. My team stood no chance..

Sakuya March 8th, 2007 10:58 AM

Agreed with Rhetorical. :/ Tate and Liza made me so mad because I'd be doing great until I got to them and then they'd defeat me in about six moves. D: GRR.

SkyAttack March 8th, 2007 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samson (Post 2405446)
tate and liza? delcatty destroyed those suckers XD

and umm swellow is NOT weak against aerial ace ._. ... and umm tropius is not a good pokemon. it's barely decent... you should really consider replacing it. i say switch it for a fighting type. breloom is good.

Perhaps I should clarify myself on what I mean by saying "weak". I don't mean that there are elemental weakness between said Pokemon and said moves, I mean that my Pokemon don't have any particular strengths against the moves she chose to use. Also, doesn't a same-type attack(eg. Flying on Flying, Ground on Ground...) do 1.5 times the damage? It just seems like these moves were hitting my Flying and Ground types pretty hard, respectively. I'm used to being able to bring out Pokemon that my opponent can usualy only use ineffective moves against, through different type match-ups. It just couldn't happen this time. That is what I mean when I say "weak".

Also, I like using my Tropius, but I am switching her out for awhile in exchange to see what my Kecleon is all about. ;) Although I'm sure Breloom is really good, fighting types just aren't my style.

I hope this helps to clarify things

shanecdavis March 8th, 2007 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyAttack (Post 2405844)
Perhaps I should clarify myself on what I mean by saying "weak". I don't mean that there are elemental weakness between said Pokemon and said moves, I mean that my Pokemon don't have any particular strengths against the moves she chose to use. Also, doesn't a same-type attack(eg. Flying on Flying, Ground on Ground...) do 1.5 times the damage? It just seems like these moves were hitting my Flying and Ground types pretty hard, respectively. I'm used to being able to bring out Pokemon that my opponent can usualy only use ineffective moves against, through different type match-ups. It just couldn't happen this time. That is what I mean when I say "weak".

Also, I like using my Tropius, but I am switching her out for awhile in exchange to see what my Kecleon is all about. ;) Although I'm sure Breloom is really good, fighting types just aren't my style.

I hope this helps to clarify things

Okay, you have made some bad assumptions on a few things which is probably why you are having a tough time with Liza and Tate, whom are one of the easiest gym leaders in all of Pokemondom, especially since it is a 2v2 battle and the AI doesn't know good strategy from a 2+2 calculation. Basically, you attack Claydol with both of your Pokes. Once it is out of the way, this battle is a piece of cake. Swampert owns these two freaks. If you didn't start off with Mudkip then Shiftry and Cacturne do just as well, since they are Grass/Dark and resist all the attacks from the Pokes the two freaks have.

BTW - Never assume that a type is weak to the same type. That is incorrect. The only types that are weak to the same type are Dragon and Ghost. In fact, the following types actually resist (0.5 damage) attacks from the same type:

Dark
Electric
Fire
Grass
Ice
Poison
Psychic
Steel
Water

Another problem you are having is that your "team" is not well put together. Liza & Tate's Pokes are Lv41-42. Marshtomp, Trapinch, Magnemite, and especially Aron are especially not going to cut it. I am a big proponent of not leveling up my Pokes any higher than the gym leader Pokes you face, but you are on the other extreme. A low level Marshtomp backed up only by a Swellow is going to cause anyone troubles. Either take time to level up your Pokes with good movesets, or choose better Pokes in which to battle with. Good luck.

Hippo March 8th, 2007 1:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 2405848)
With the exception of Juan in Emerald, I had no other problem with any gym leader.

Juan however, was a problem with that Milotic. D:

Heh... Juan was killer.

I've always had problems in R/B and LG with Misty. Her pokes are killer, and really high levels, and theres few pokemon that are good at water that early in the game. (Bulba if you picked him, bellsprout, and pika are all that i remember...)

Yesterday my emerald was a different story though. I've been rushing to get the national Dex, so i haven't really cared about my pokemon team, i just wanted to beat Juan.
I have a Blaziken, Ludicolo, and a Weezing. Ludi had gigadrain and Weezing had thunderbolt.
All was well, i could 1 hit or so with Ludi's gigadrain (I was a few levels higher) until i got to kingdra. His ice beam was normally effective against me, and just hit hard. I tried to thunder bolt, but he had some nice spec def and blocked thunderbolts and gigadrains quite well. It was like a 3HKO with Giga... and i only had a max of 7 pp. So anyway, he would just rest and stall me, then use double team out the butt, then just repeat. So finally i had to wear down his icebeam PP, then WaterPulse (did 6 damage to Ludi =D), then Rest and doubleteam, and i finally beat him with blaziken because he could just doubleteam me. I've never had a longer fight...

Animehero March 8th, 2007 1:38 PM

Tate and Liza. Though I had Mightyena, and Sharpedo, I lost as well because of my Blaziken. Level 68, but those dang psychic moves.

Rioku_Zanketa March 8th, 2007 2:57 PM

um....none?..I always seem to overpower the gym leaders before I fight them....BUT,there are two leaders who caught my attention while fighting them:Flannery and Wallace(wallace?...no,that's not his name...the guy I'm talking about is the last gym leader with the water/ice pokemon...I'm mixed up with names,lol)

they only made themselve noticable because they have always managed to kill at least two of my pokemon....lol

~Night March 8th, 2007 7:41 PM

Juan is kind of hard because of his Kingdra. In my game his Kingdra just uses Double Team so my pokemon hardly ever hit Kingdra. It took maybe 11 times to beat him, but that was a long time ago.

Houndour2005 March 9th, 2007 3:37 AM

I found Tate and Liza frustrating.

Crazy Weavile March 9th, 2007 10:49 PM

To be honest, none of them are hard.
Start with Treecko to own Roxanne, then catch a Wingull. Brawly falls. Catch a Geodude and a Makuhita in Granite Cave, and Wattson is pathetic. For Norman, use your hopefully now-evolved Makuhita. Easy. Go to Flannery and win with your now-a-Pellipper, catching a Manectric on your way to Winona for an easy win. Then, go to Liza and Tate with what should be a Sceptile and Pellipper, preying on the Rock sides of their Pokemon. Finally, use Sceptile to beat Juan, with backup from Manectric. Easy. And for the E4, you've got:

Sceptile
Graveller
Hariyama
Pellipper
Manectric
Filler

It's really pathetic.

Obelisk March 10th, 2007 9:04 PM

tate and liza were hard but my pokemon were low leveled at the time.

TB Pro March 10th, 2007 9:40 PM

I had trouble with Brawly I could beat his machop with my combusken with no problem.Medidite(sp?)was simple all it did was use Focus Punch and I would use peck twice and it was dead but that darn mukahita(sp?)killed me about twice before i owned its butt!Tate & Liza were hard as well they whooped my blaziken faster then you can say my Blaziken wad owned by their boney butts!

ChrisG14 March 11th, 2007 2:56 PM

I always had trouble with Wattson. I always never catch a Geodude, I just focus on my starter and it's 2 backups. Even with Grovyle, Bullet Seed barely cut it against Magnaton and Manetric owned my butt! I had to train up until I got Leaf Blade to beat it.

~Seadra~ March 11th, 2007 7:33 PM

I've decided Winona's Altaria {and only the Altaria} is a pain after it kept killing my Manectric (and pretty much everyone else on my team) with earthquake during today's random rerun of Sapphire. I went and leveled up a Trapinch to Vibrava and took care of that though (it was mostly luck there though because if the AI was decent at all, she'd have used dragonbreath instead of dragon dance and killed that too). However, that was the first time I'd ever had any noticeable trouble with any of the gyms.

... I don't really get what's so hard about Tate & Liza. Rock types are so easy to beat with a nice surf. o.o;

SkyAttack March 12th, 2007 2:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanecdavis (Post 2405893)
Okay, you have made some bad assumptions on a few things which is probably why you are having a tough time with Liza and Tate, whom are one of the easiest gym leaders in all of Pokemondom, especially since it is a 2v2 battle and the AI doesn't know good strategy from a 2+2 calculation. Basically, you attack Claydol with both of your Pokes. Once it is out of the way, this battle is a piece of cake. Swampert owns these two freaks. If you didn't start off with Mudkip then Shiftry and Cacturne do just as well, since they are Grass/Dark and resist all the attacks from the Pokes the two freaks have.

BTW - Never assume that a type is weak to the same type. That is incorrect. The only types that are weak to the same type are Dragon and Ghost. In fact, the following types actually resist (0.5 damage) attacks from the same type:

Dark
Electric
Fire
Grass
Ice
Poison
Psychic
Steel
Water

Another problem you are having is that your "team" is not well put together. Liza & Tate's Pokes are Lv41-42. Marshtomp, Trapinch, Magnemite, and especially Aron are especially not going to cut it. I am a big proponent of not leveling up my Pokes any higher than the gym leader Pokes you face, but you are on the other extreme. A low level Marshtomp backed up only by a Swellow is going to cause anyone troubles. Either take time to level up your Pokes with good movesets, or choose better Pokes in which to battle with. Good luck.



Actually, I haven't met Tate and Liza yet, I don't even know where they are. I've just now gotten to the Abandoned Ship. It was Winona's Altaria that was the frustrating one for me.

I assumed that Same-Type attacks inflict 1.5 times the damage because that's what my 10th Anniversary Pokedex says in the damage table. Since it is the newest Pokedex out there, I tend to accept what it says. In fact, the whole table on page 7 says this:

"Move is the same type as Pokemon-1.5x""Move is effective against opponent's type-2-4x"
"Move scores a Critical Hit-2x"
"Pokemon has an item that raises the move's Strength-1.1x"
"Rain Dance or Sunny Day effects(depending on move)-1.5x or .5x"

I'm sure that you do have good suggestions on which Pokemon I should use to most easily get through the game, and I did take out my Tropius. I'm deciding between Absol, Kecleon and Wailmer as the substitute. I just want to mention that my "team" isn't bad, or put together poorly. Most battles, I take out the opponent's Pokemon in one hit each. This isn't because I'm using all of the "most powerful" Pokemon or because I have really high levels...it's because I seem to be able to use their elements to my advantage quite well. I think it's an excellent challenge to use Pokemon that I personally like and know the abilites of very well...after all...isn't this what Pokemon is essentially about? ;) I'm definitely always open to suggestion about Pokemon strategy...I just do not agree that my team is poorly put together. It works really well for me, and it will likely still change a bit here and there as I progress throughout the game. Maybe it isn't ideal, but I want to try to work with it. :)

shanecdavis March 12th, 2007 3:14 PM

Most of the Pokedex books that I have seen are incorrect and poorly put together. Not sure how they get published, to be honest. What those quotes are attempting to explain is that if a move is the same type of the Poke using it, it will get a 1.5x SameiType Attack Bonus (STAB) increase. That doesn't mean though that it is 2x (or in some cases 4x) effective against an opponent of the same type. For example, even though Swellow gets a STAB bonus, it doesn't gain any additional bonus when attacking another Flying-type like it would a Bug/Fighting/Grass-type.

WARNING: If you have no intention of ever battling against anyone besides the pathetic AI, stop reading now. This won't apply to you. Just use whatever six Pokes you want and enjoy life.

As for your team, the in-game AI is so pathetic that you really can throw six Pokes together and really think that you have a good team. The AI was made that way on purpose. First, so that six-year olds could beat the game, but secondly so you could use the Pokes that you like and still win. Personally, I think that is totally flawed thinking since all that does is teach bad strategy to too many trainers. Keep in mind that with Diamond/Pearl, and the DS, there is now a Wi-Fi feature that is going to allow you the ability to battle other people.

What is going to happen is you have someone who has only played against the pathetic AI and used to playing that way, only to be utterly destroyed when they play someone else. Competitive/link battling is totatlly different than in-game. A real person isn't going to be stupid enough not to switch out when you put their Poke to sleep or bring out a Poke that has an advantage over theirs. A real person also won't rely on mathematical percentages to determine their gameplay. That means no random non-attacking moves, and no horrible movesets (Double Team on Blissey????????).

That is why I am so frustrated with DP and probably won't even spend the money to get one and a DS to play it on. I was really hoping that there would be a difficulty level added, where the AI would actually battle similar to the way a normal person would. With the extra space in the DS, I guess it only afforded them more unnecessary existing Poke evolutions (Roselia is a great example), and marginally better graphics. [/endrant]

When I said your team was poorly put together, that was mainly due to the low levels you had in comparison to L &T's Pokes, which I wrongly thought you were having trouble with. As long as your levels are in the range, your choices are just fine. It is in-game, after all. One of the other biggest differences between in-game and competitive/link battling is strategy. In-game it seems trainers focus mainly on type coverage, which is due to almost every single AI opponent either (a) having an overwhelming weakness by having too many of the same types on their team, or (b) having different types but the levels of them being low enough that you can breeze through them anyway. Again, bad strategy. A good trainer will avoid having more than one of the same weaknesses on their team. So, while type coverage works (too) easily in-game, in competitive/link battling you are better off with stat coverage. You want a team that has some Pokes that can attack, some Pokes that can take hits, and one or two that can assist your team and even inflict statuses on your opponent. That is a big difference in strategy that just doesn't translate from the in-game environment.

After all that, the bottom line is if you are only going to play against the AI, you can disregard anything I have said over the past few paragraphs and enjoy the game as much as you can.

SkyAttack March 12th, 2007 5:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanecdavis (Post 2410598)
Most of the Pokedex books that I have seen are incorrect and poorly put together. Not sure how they get published, to be honest. What those quotes are attempting to explain is that if a move is the same type of the Poke using it, it will get a 1.5x SameiType Attack Bonus (STAB) increase. That doesn't mean though that it is 2x (or in some cases 4x) effective against an opponent of the same type. For example, even though Swellow gets a STAB bonus, it doesn't gain any additional bonus when attacking another Flying-type like it would a Bug/Fighting/Grass-type.

WARNING: If you have no intention of ever battling against anyone besides the pathetic AI, stop reading now. This won't apply to you. Just use whatever six Pokes you want and enjoy life.

As for your team, the in-game AI is so pathetic that you really can throw six Pokes together and really think that you have a good team. The AI was made that way on purpose. First, so that six-year olds could beat the game, but secondly so you could use the Pokes that you like and still win. Personally, I think that is totally flawed thinking since all that does is teach bad strategy to too many trainers. Keep in mind that with Diamond/Pearl, and the DS, there is now a Wi-Fi feature that is going to allow you the ability to battle other people.

What is going to happen is you have someone who has only played against the pathetic AI and used to playing that way, only to be utterly destroyed when they play someone else. Competitive/link battling is totatlly different than in-game. A real person isn't going to be stupid enough not to switch out when you put their Poke to sleep or bring out a Poke that has an advantage over theirs. A real person also won't rely on mathematical percentages to determine their gameplay. That means no random non-attacking moves, and no horrible movesets (Double Team on Blissey????????).

That is why I am so frustrated with DP and probably won't even spend the money to get one and a DS to play it on. I was really hoping that there would be a difficulty level added, where the AI would actually battle similar to the way a normal person would. With the extra space in the DS, I guess it only afforded them more unnecessary existing Poke evolutions (Roselia is a great example), and marginally better graphics. [/endrant]

When I said your team was poorly put together, that was mainly due to the low levels you had in comparison to L &T's Pokes, which I wrongly thought you were having trouble with. As long as your levels are in the range, your choices are just fine. It is in-game, after all. One of the other biggest differences between in-game and competitive/link battling is strategy. In-game it seems trainers focus mainly on type coverage, which is due to almost every single AI opponent either (a) having an overwhelming weakness by having too many of the same types on their team, or (b) having different types but the levels of them being low enough that you can breeze through them anyway. Again, bad strategy. A good trainer will avoid having more than one of the same weaknesses on their team. So, while type coverage works (too) easily in-game, in competitive/link battling you are better off with stat coverage. You want a team that has some Pokes that can attack, some Pokes that can take hits, and one or two that can assist your team and even inflict statuses on your opponent. That is a big difference in strategy that just doesn't translate from the in-game environment.

After all that, the bottom line is if you are only going to play against the AI, you can disregard anything I have said over the past few paragraphs and enjoy the game as much as you can.



Firstly, thank you for the help with Lileep!

Of course I want to play the game and enjoy it. I don't think any of us want to be miserable playing Pokemon. lol I see what you're saying about the attack-ratios and type-weaknesses, it makes sense. I suppose everyone has their own style, and I'm staying rather true to my own. Different strategies work for different people. Perhaps some of us in-game trainers might deserve a bit more credit in real-life battles! ;)

Demonta March 13th, 2007 12:33 PM

What? What do you mean hard? How can any Gym leader possibly hard?

The only thing I had difficulty with was the second league in FR.

BassFace March 14th, 2007 7:46 PM

For the most frustrating Gym Leader in RSE, I'd have to say Norman. I can't stand his Slakings! They may only be able to attack every second turn, but their attacks do a lot of damage, they have a ton of HP, and they're super fast. The only thing that's really bad about Slaking is its special defense. When I rented Ruby, I had to level my Grumpig up to Level 37 or something outrageous like that... which was a considerably higher level than Norman's Pokemon. The reason I needed that high level was so Grumpig didn't get thomped in one or two hits. I didn't have Psychic at my disposal, so I had to rely on Psybeam to take down Norman's Slakings... which took a while. I did win, though. :)

I can't really remember what I did in Emerald, but I'm guessing I used Marshtomp or Gardevoir to fight the majority of the battle. I did also train a Combusken (it wasn't my starter) in that game, but I can't remember if I got it before or after that battle with Norman.

Tate and Liza were a bit of an issue, too. I had no good Pokemon at the time - Blaziken was pretty useless, and Exploud was awfully bad too (knowing only normal attacks). I think I relied on Gardevoir and Swampert for the whole battle.

RYOUKI March 17th, 2007 9:49 AM

well the most annoying IS norman (you all know the meaning of annoying don't you all?)
but the toughest is tate and liza that's 4 sure, claydol is strong bec. of earthquake
xatu is strong because of well psychic(duh) and there's solrock and lunatone well there a piece of cake but i'm irritated because tate & liza always heal them so its darn strong(sturdy) i, guess BUT juan's kingdra was annoying,powerhouse and the sweeper why? it just took out my altaria in one blow (duh lv40 altaria, lv46 kingdra) anyway, manectric manages to weaken him and grumpig do a lot of damage and bannete do a status effect and blaziken well he helped me but kingdra always use rest so it makes it tough(sturdy) too.

shanecdavis March 17th, 2007 3:53 PM

We do know the meaning of annoying, but if you read the initial post, you would see that this thread is about the most "frustrating/difficult" gym leader.

Ayano Katagiri March 20th, 2007 1:17 AM

Wattson was frustrating when I tried to play the game with Treecko as my starter. No, problems with Torchic or Swampert. But asides from him, the gym leaders werent too bad. Tate & Liza's gym puzzle was frustrating in Emerald but otherwise, I had no real problems even the first time through.

Richard Lynch March 20th, 2007 3:29 AM

Norman was probably my least favourite... I don't care if he was pathetic AI, Slaking is a beast to take down. Tate and Liza I initially had trouble with, the first time I played, but now I can take 'em down no sweat.

And to take Shane's AI/out-of-game bit... I love Steel Pokemon. It's my favourite type. I like it so much I have a team of mon-Steel. But that is in-game. I tried using the team on a friend, who had a Blaziken and a Milotic, and I put up a good fight, but in the end, type advantages will usually always pull out victorious. So in saying this, it's never a good idea (if you're like me and prefer one type, or even some Pokes that... well, suck) to have multiple teams.

I have two teams: my Steel Team, and my Multi-Team. My Steel team is novelty; I use it in game and most of the time when I mix records. But if I'm in a serious battle, I will bring out my multi-team, which I took a lot of time picking and choosing the best Pokes. Like Shane said, the four primary guys you MUST have in a serious team are (and I will use the Pokes I chose for my multi-team): A Physical Sweeper (Metagross), a Special Sweeper (Alakazam), a Physical Wall (Skarmory, and Milotic, although Milotic absorbs just about every attack possible) and a Special Wall (Blissey, by far the greatest special wall in history). After those four slots are filled, then you can pick whatever two Pokes you want. I often nit-pick with Skarmory and Metagross, since same typing on one team is never a good idea... but Metagross is a complete beast when used right, with NO 4x weakness (unlike his rival Salamence, where one Ice Beam butt-rapes him in the shower), and Skarmory is the best physcal wall out there.

So you never really have to choose either a team you like or a team that is actually good. You can have both!

J March 23rd, 2007 3:49 PM

I hated the Winona battle. :< 'Cause I use Grass types a lot. D:

Angelic Diablo March 23rd, 2007 5:00 PM

The most frustrating gym battle is Juan... mainly because I haven't got up to him yet...

Idiot! March 28th, 2007 2:06 AM

Insert random filler here.

shanecdavis March 28th, 2007 4:12 AM

That is another big flaw when you play in-game. Instead of teaching strategy, it teaches that if you just level up your Pokes high enough, you can still win even if you have poorly constructed movesets and teams.

ss5vegeta March 28th, 2007 5:08 AM

Flannery is hard if you started of with Treecko like I did on emerald. Same with Balzkien against Liza and Tate.

GCFreak March 28th, 2007 10:12 PM

Well, the two most frustrating of them all are Norman and Tate and Liza (pathetic eh?).

Norman:

My Breloom owned the show with Mach Punch up to Slaking, where Slaking kicked Breloom's behind. It also wasted all my other Pokemon up until Gardevoir, where a powerful combination of Confusion and Psychic finally did it.

Tate & Liza:

Now...these girls were only hard because I was only expecting Solrock and Lunatone. I was planning to own them with Gardevoir's Thunderbolt and Sceptile's combination of Leaf Blade and Giga Drain. But when I entered the battle, I was shocked to find that I had a hard time defeating them.

Yeah...:P

shanecdavis March 29th, 2007 4:07 AM

Tate is not a girl. He is Liza's brother.

BTW - If you had Calm Mind instead of two Psychic moves, you could have boosted your Psychic move during Slaking's Truant turn and then OHKO'd it. Two moves of the same type on the same Poke only limits that Poke's effectiveness.

Lucian March 29th, 2007 4:14 AM

The first time around, Tate andLiza, becauseididnt totaly understand the double pokemon fights yet.

NekrosKoma March 31st, 2007 11:20 AM

Winona but that was when i spent too much time using my starter so my pokemon were extreamly weak i got offed pretty fast

dylandutra April 5th, 2007 12:02 AM

I've always had trouble with the Normal leaders.
GSC girl with Miltank
Norman
Screw the Normal gyms, I hate them.

Funny, I had a lot of trouble with Norman, and whited out a few times. Yet, I downed Winona in OHKOs right after.

Myzou April 5th, 2007 1:04 AM

Norman, the fact how fast you can go fight him right after the 4th gym with not any pokemon around to train on... =p

Lt. Surge's Raichu April 5th, 2007 11:22 AM

When my team was not as outgrown as it became it was Tate and Liza i had some ittybitty problems with

Lunux April 5th, 2007 11:41 AM

in RBY Brock was the hardest if you had chosen charmander. for me that is. the others were pretty easy.

Shift April 7th, 2007 1:22 PM

Hm, Shift doesn't have Emerald, and Shift hasn't played his Ruby in ages. But Shift does recall going up against Watson with his Treecko. Shift didn't have the advantage against Steel and lost. Shift ended up doing a new game with his starter being Mudkip.

Richard Lynch April 7th, 2007 8:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shift (Post 2437312)
Shift ended up doing a new game with his starter being Mudkip.

Shift did a very wise thing there.

Or Shift could have just picked up an Aron, and trained it up to have Mudslap. Whatever works for Shift.

Now let's shift away from referring to oneself in third person.

TheRedDeerHunter:

Normal leaders have always been difficult for me too... Norman was one of the hardest gym leaders in R/S/E, because of his damn Slaking, who is an utter BEAST. That thing can take a beating even from physical attackers, despite moving only every two turns. I was always curious why it never became more popular.

elric331 April 8th, 2007 5:18 AM

hrmmmm...... Brawly was such a pain.. i hated his bloody makuhita and especially when it used bulk up.
tate and liza isn't rlly hard except for Xatu if u chose mudkip as a starter.

HackinJohn April 8th, 2007 7:54 PM

Winona was a piece of cake until I met her Altaria. I was wondering why thunderbolt wasn't silencing it (I didn't know it was dragon.)
It took out my Pikachu and Gardevoir before I realized it was dragon. Then I sent out Swampert and he beat it with Ice Beam.

Tate and Liza are a pain as well. Both of their Pokémon have extremely high HP and great move sets.

Roxanne is also annoying. Her Geodude's are simple, but her darn high-HP Nosepass bugs me...

Norman is usually a problem because of his Slaking's HP and strength, as well as Flannery. Her Torkoal annoys the poop out of me.

Glacia is bad as well. By the time I get to her, my Fire and Electric Types are pretty much dead so she hoses them down pretty easily.

And the final Wally bugs me a LOT. His Gardevoir used Double Team all 20x and I couldn't hit it!

aaronburnsyou April 9th, 2007 11:42 PM

My hardest experience with a gym leader had to be in Emerald, when I fought Winona with all her super-powered, high 50s pokemon, all against my Lv9X Breloom (all I had at the time). I was just lucky I had way too many Full Restores at the time.

Alexandrian April 15th, 2007 7:50 PM

gosh... i hated the elite fours i always faint battling them.

Soogz April 16th, 2007 5:57 PM

Gotta be Roxanne in my opinion... Its just because her pkmn were at such a high level at the begging of the game, that you kind of had to be up there with her to compete.

Towlie April 16th, 2007 6:11 PM

Tate and Liza. Though, using Imprison on her with a Gardevoir is always fun. I made her Xatu use struggle from that.

Norman is kind of a pain because you get basically no training after Flannery.

Juan's Kindra is annoying though too. Double team/Rest/Hyper potions makes me mad.

Alexandrian April 16th, 2007 8:46 PM

I think I would say wallace is really hard since he likes ice pokemon :D

ThePokemaster999 April 28th, 2007 7:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoshiko (Post 2405848)
With the exception of Juan in Emerald, I had no other problem with any gym leader.

Juan however, was a problem with that Milotic. D:

yeah it took my lv 45 Manectric forever two KO Milotic

Rai April 28th, 2007 7:48 AM

I always thought Tate and Liza were the most frustrating =\ And Norman was really annoying to beat -___-

Razer302 April 28th, 2007 7:53 AM

Tate and Liza took me ages to beat. I hated having to do it as a double battle.

beauty. proletariat April 28th, 2007 11:27 PM

I wud say Brawly was pretty hard for me, as i was training Torchic (at that time, lvl 12), Poochyena (lvl 11) and Lotad (lvl 11)...
Couldnt do it, so first delivered letter, then, leveled until evolve, then Kicked his sorry b*tt

Lt. Silver April 30th, 2007 3:00 AM

Norman, I got is all of is pokemon down to red health and every time he would heal them, it was really annoying

ThePokemaster999 May 7th, 2007 1:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyAttack (Post 2404969)
I'm curious to know which Gym Leader you found the most frustrating/difficult in Pokemon Emerald.

I had never let all(or even most) of my Pokemon team faint in battle until I fought Winona, the flying master of Fortree City. Most of her team wasn't too difficult, but her Altaria kept taking out my team using Earthquake. The Pokemon that I have who aren't vulnerable to Earthquake were vulnerable to Aerial Ace. It was so frustrating, and it took three attempts before I finally won using the right Pkmn in the right matchups. Poseidon, my Marshtomp claimed the victory against Altaria. :)

Who have you had problems battling with? Obviously people like the Elite Four and such are difficult, but I'm curious about all of the other in-game trainers/gym leaders. Anyone else had issues with Winona?

I did- my level 40 Manectric kept KO'd by altaria's EQ right before it ko'd altaria. other than winona i didn't have much trouble with the hoenn gym leaders

jammi567 May 7th, 2007 2:47 AM

For me, it has to be Watson. I Sapphire, i had an Aron at around level 20, and i thought i could pawn him (Electric being ineffective against Ground. It took me close to 20 trys to beat him. After that, i zoomed through the game. Even the bloosy Elite 4 weren't as hard as him, comparictivly speaking.

Lt. Silver May 7th, 2007 2:57 AM

the hardest trainer in the whole game would have to be Emerald's Wallace

Atabas May 7th, 2007 4:19 AM

I hated Juan (guy who replaced walace)
my team was Fire/earth based

Blaziken
Rhydon
Graveler

darkphoenixdude May 7th, 2007 4:50 AM

I hated him too! I had to fight him using my sceptile O.o

Ayusuke May 7th, 2007 3:58 PM

I have to say that Norman or Wattson. Norman is just difficult with his Slaking and Wattson was just hell to take down when I replayed the game and chose Treeko. Uneven training while fighting Wattson didn't help either. ><

Pokemon trainer Seth May 8th, 2007 9:13 AM

Most annoying?

Sapphire: Wallace

Emerald: Tate&Liza( man they've grown Waaay stronger since Sapphire)

That's it

Krobelus May 10th, 2007 10:19 PM

Hmmm... lemme think...

Ruby: Brawly (Only cuz I had full offense, and no Special offense eheh)
Sapphire: Tate and Liza because they, well they just pwned me!
Emerald: Hmmmm... none. Haha I only use three Pokémon when I go through each game (with the exception of two HM slaves), which were Swampert, Alakazam, and Golbat (Golbat is surprisingly strong after it evolves from Zubat), and they all held tough against each Gym.

That's all.

mathrocks12345 May 11th, 2007 3:01 AM

In Emerald:
I had a hard time defeating Juan. I couldn't manage to beat him, because of Kingdra. Therefore, I played "cheap" and captured Rayquaza with a few Ultra Balls in Sky Pillar (It opens once you do the miniquest of going to it and breaking the fighting with Groudon and Kyogre.)
I beat him easily afterward.

Yani May 11th, 2007 6:28 AM

hmmmm....I think I had trouble fighting with Brawly...Since my Marshtomp wasn't that strong yet...>.< but the rest were easy to defeat...^_^

ThePokemaster999 May 11th, 2007 7:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyAttack (Post 2405372)
Tate and Liza? Now I'm curious to see what these people are all about. :D

I think my main problem with Winona was the fact that I was using:

*Tropius
*Swellow
^^Both weak against Aerial Ace

*Trapinch
*Magnemite
*Aron
*Marshtomp
^^All weak against Earthquake

All were between level 26-35. I've changed out Tropius to try out Kecleon for awhile. I love my team, but they all had a major weakness to one of her two best moves. Oh well, it adds a challenge I suppose. :)

Swellow's a flying type how's it weak against Aerial Ace?

zethias May 13th, 2007 5:44 PM

I'm with you on Winona. Mightyena just couldn't do forever I suppose...xD...I'll admit, there was alot of revive and potions there..xD

Lapras1016 May 16th, 2007 3:09 AM

I must admit, I didn't find Tate & Liza hard. I did find difficulty with Wattson, though, seeing as my only resistant-to-Electric then was Grovyle, and it didn't even have moves good against Electrics. In the end my Azumarill's Defense Curl-Rollout combo ripped him apart. XD

Another one I had problems with was Norman, the player's dad. Since Slaking is the strongest non-Legendary in terms of base stat total, even a poorly trained one, as is with most AI players in the game, can be devastating. In the end, Rollout saved me again. Defense Curl-Rollout on Azumarill is really devastating if you have a Lonely (-Def., +Atk.) Azumarill with Huge (or was it Pure?) Power.

Lady Milotic May 21st, 2007 7:57 AM

I absolutly HATE Tate and Liza!They've put me off Claydols for life with that bloody overweight rock of theirs(No offense to people who like Claydols).My Seviper K'O'd so easy it wasn't funny.Poor Aquos(Azumarill) fainted like a Pikachu to a Sandslash too.

...I still haven't beaten them.Not in Emerald any way.

Another annoying Gym was Norman.If I didn't have my Breloom,Daddy would've pawned me.

Wattson was,ismy worst enemy.I eventually managed to beat him with my Almighty Aquos!Brilliant Pokemon,that!

dannychappy May 23rd, 2007 8:19 AM

The hardest gym leaders
 
Liza and tate
they battled well and they are really harder in emerald than in ruby/sapphire

aman May 25th, 2007 6:58 AM

tate and liza are really frustating but their combos should be praised

Inugami May 27th, 2007 10:46 AM

I didn't find wattson hard. Me was Tate & Liza. Oh my gosh, I now remember Lunatone and Solrock, Blaziken didn't stand a chance. I eventually ended up beating them though (^_^)

Corona May 27th, 2007 3:00 PM

Tate and Liza where hell to me

Mr. Blaine May 27th, 2007 3:48 PM

When I first got my sapphire I had trouble on Roxanne, Brawly, Tate and Liza, and Wallace since I had chosen Torchic as my starter. xD

I also had trouble on ... the guy in Emerald... uhh... D: What's his name... Juan? D:

Nowadays I usually just struggle on Wattson a bit. That's it.

hiis5 May 28th, 2007 1:21 PM

Man I thought Wattson was tooooooo hard 2 handle! This was only because I don't really hav any ground/rock type pokemon on my team but I wish I did :'( I sailed through the other gym leaders though!:D

~*!*~Tatsujin Gosuto~*!*~ May 28th, 2007 1:31 PM

you could of gotten electric type like Electric to fight, so you wont have to worry about getting knocked out easily. Also you could of gotten a Geodude from Granite cave, you can't miss them there


:t354:tatsujin gosuto

Saryka June 4th, 2007 4:22 PM

In RSE, it had to be... gaaaah.... Norman & Winona, although over time Winona got a little easier... until you met that Altaria of hers. What a beast! Alty killed my Mantectric, but I finally silence her with my Swampert and my Vibrava. (Why Vibrava, I don't know, since Vibi coulda gotten killed by Alty. Meh. I still beat her >D)

With FRLG, it had to be... um... well, they were pretty easy, but my least favourite was Sabrina. Not that she was hard, just that she was hard to get to xD (gah, like Flannery in RSE, but I kicked her butt >D) Sabrina's pretty easy, though.

MegamanC June 6th, 2007 9:06 PM

Tate and Liza hands down.

Blaziken (46), Gyarados (35), Swellow (33), and Lairon (34) No match to Claydol, Lunatone, and Solrock.

>.<

- MegamanC

Sir Aaron June 8th, 2007 4:45 PM

none
 
They were really easy for me

ToraSushii June 8th, 2007 6:49 PM

Uh..Brawly.
I hate that guy, his Makuhita is like really strong when I'm at that point. Vital Throw...

Rai June 8th, 2007 6:57 PM

Volkner was hard for me because I had no pokemon with ground attacks =/

Sharks and Danger June 8th, 2007 7:15 PM

Brawly and Wattson were hard for me at the times I was there, but it took a little training, that's all.


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