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-   -   4th Gen How are these Starmie IV's? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=84421)

Storm-DC May 14th, 2007 4:23 AM

How are these Starmie IV's?
 
HP IV: 17 [13 ~ 22] 9%
Attack IV: 5 [1 ~ 10] 6%
Defense IV: 29 [27 ~ 31] 23%
Sp.Atk IV: 10 [6 ~ 15] 7%
Sp.Def IV: 29 [27 ~ 31] 23%
Speed IV: 23 [19 ~ 28] 9%

It's modest by nature, so has increased SP ATK (at the cost of normal attack), but still the SP ATK IV is kinda low.. Its fast and good defended though..

Since Starmie is one of the fastest pokemon out there anyway i was thinking giving it cyroball, psychic, a special water attack and recover.

Anyway, this is more about the IV. Should I go with this?

Also, I was thinking for EVs: 255 SP ATK, 155 SP, 100 SP DEF (or HP).

Richard Lynch May 14th, 2007 5:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch_Courage (Post 2479925)
HP IV: 17 [13 ~ 22] 9%
Attack IV: 5 [1 ~ 10] 6%
Defense IV: 29 [27 ~ 31] 23%
Sp.Atk IV: 10 [6 ~ 15] 7%
Sp.Def IV: 29 [27 ~ 31] 23%
Speed IV: 23 [19 ~ 28] 9%

It's modest by nature, so has increased SP ATK (at the cost of normal attack), but still the SP ATK IV is kinda low.. Its fast and good defended though..

Since Starmie is one of the fastest pokemon out there anyway i was thinking giving it cyroball, psychic, a special water attack and recover.

Anyway, this is more about the IV. Should I go with this?

Also, I was thinking for EVs: 255 SP ATK, 155 SP, 100 SP DEF (or HP).

Hmmm... I'm not liking the Special Attack IVs there. Speed is decent, but the Defense goes to waste since Starmie wasn't meant to take physical hits. Patience with IV breeding is well worth the outcome - it took me a few days to get a Beldum with perfect 31 IVs in both HP AND Attack. The Attack pleases me, since that means that at any time my future Metagross (with max EVs) will have the highest Attack possible for any Metagross. And HP is by far more important than Defense. Personally, I would keep breeding until you get the Special Attack and Speed at least in the high 20's. Because 10 in Special Attack is pretty bad.

Modest nature is good (Starmie is in the same league as Alakazam: bad defenses, but fast enough to OHKO a few things, so it's possible that Speed is more important than Special Attack, to get the upper hand, so also consider a Timid nature.), but with EVs, try maxing out Special Attack and Speed (that is, 252 in both, since 255 isn't divisible by 4, so that leaves 252 in Special Attack and 252 in Speed), and put the rest (that is, 6) into Special Defense. That's good for a special sweeper.

The basic Starmie moveset from the 3rd generation is:

- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Ice Beam

However, with many of the new moves in the new generation, this set might be slightly dated.

Either way, Starmie is a force to be reckoned with.

Storm-DC May 14th, 2007 8:45 AM

Just got a timid one that also 'likes to run'.. So real real fast.. But I'm like 'well, starmie is number 14 of all pokemon, including legies, on speed', so why even boost it? Well, Cyroball will be amazingly strong now..
I'm going to raise him some to check out the other IVs

EDIT:

* HP IV: 6 [2 ~ 10] 8%
* Attack IV: 14 [10 ~ 18] 10%
* Defense IV: 10 [6 ~ 14] 9%
* Sp.Atk IV: 26 [22 ~ 30] 11%
* Sp.Def IV: 10 [6 ~ 14] 9%
* Speed IV: 23 [20 ~ 27] 12%

Hm, won't settle for this

Storm-DC May 14th, 2007 9:16 AM

Another timid with

* HP IV: 28 [25 ~ 31] 15%
* Attack IV: 28 [26 ~ 31] 18%
* Defense IV: 25 [21 ~ 29] 11%
* Sp.Atk IV: 3 [0 ~ 7] 6%
* Sp.Def IV: 3 [0 ~ 6] 8%
* Speed IV: 23 [20 ~ 27] 12%

With the prospect of Staryu being a slow leveller, this is frustrating :)

Richard Lynch May 14th, 2007 12:40 PM

The second one has terrible HP... 6! However, the Speed and Sp. Atk is pretty good, so keep that one as an option.

For Starmie, try to focus on Speed, Special Attack, and HP (HP is on general principle, because without a good amount of it, especially seeing as how we're not putting any EVs into it, Starmie won't be able to take ANY hits.)

Hippo May 14th, 2007 12:54 PM

None of those Starmies are very good...
Like the others said, HP, SpecAtt, and Speed.
I'd read a little about IV breeding, so you can better do it. Get a ton of dittos and its pretty easy.

And Gyroball sucks. (Yes, its GYRO). Steel is a terrible type to attack with, and Starmie is loaded with better moves. The only one who can pull off a Gyroball is Bronzong really.

AnarchaArcana May 14th, 2007 2:31 PM

Sorry if this is sorta off topic, and maybe I should just find a good faq (suggest one if you know of one :)) but How did you calculate those IV's? I thought the only way to gauge it was to level up a pokemon to 15 or so and compare it to others (because the IV's don't impact the stats enough to tell at low levels).

-Anarchana!

Soylvak May 14th, 2007 4:26 PM

The stats that are going to be used by the pokemon should be higher than 20, but lets say that theyre all close to 30 except ony thats in the 10s, it's acceptable if its not a major stat used (SP atk should be close to 30)

Storm-DC May 14th, 2007 4:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soylvak (Post 2480685)
The stats that are going to be used by the pokemon should be higher than 20, but lets say that theyre all close to 30 except ony thats in the 10s, it's acceptable if its not a major stat used (SP atk should be close to 30)

and so you would also agree to go with a modest nature right? i think ill still go for that one, because like i said; starmie's speed already is hard to top without a nature boost.

anyway, have to breed some more. bleh.

hey AnarchaArcana, I used the calculator of legendarypokemon dot com slash ivcalc (cant post links yet :)). I first gave them an exp share and fought five Fearow of level 50 (since they would need the speed EV anyway). So its counted from level 13.

ehm, something else.. starmie's defense stats really aren't thát bad by default

Richard Lynch May 14th, 2007 5:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch_Courage (Post 2480752)
hey AnarchaArcana, I used the calculator of legendarypokemon dot com slash ivcalc (cant post links yet :)). I first gave them an exp share and fought five Fearow of level 50 (since they would need the speed EV anyway). So its counted from level 13.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up a second... you gotta incorporate those EVs into the program, or else some of the IVs could be inaccurate. If you are taking EVs into account, stop reading this now, but if you aren't, it might be best to keep track of which EVs you obtain, and the program you use should have a special spot to put how many EVs you've earned.

Or an easier method: just get maybe around 20 or 30 Rare Candies (In Emerald this was easily done with a high level Pokemon with the trait "pick up", not sure about D/P though), and use the Rare Candies instead of battling to level up. Rare Candies don't take EVs into account, so it's the best thing to use when IV-Breeding.

Storm-DC May 14th, 2007 5:58 PM

yes, i wish i had a dozen of rare candies, but i don't. so like i just said; i train them against pokemon that provide EVs i would have to get anyway when the pokemon appears to be the one i will be training. and so yes, i also write them down in the calculator. i'm also pointing that out in the n00b-advanced-training-example i'm writing out for my fellow n00bs ;)

AnarchaArcana May 14th, 2007 9:37 PM

Quote:

hey AnarchaArcana, I used the calculator of legendarypokemon dot com slash ivcalc
This link takes me to a generic InternetSquater site selling Pokemon Trading Cards... Is it spelled right?

edit: Found it, It's at .net ^_^

-Anarchana!

Storm-DC May 15th, 2007 2:55 AM

next modest one:

* HP IV: 13 [10 ~ 17] 11%
* Attack IV: 14 [10 ~ 18] 10%
* Defense IV: 17 [14 ~ 21] 12%
* Sp.Atk IV: 10 [7 ~ 14] 10%
* Sp.Def IV: 3 [0 ~ 6] 8%
* Speed IV: 29 [27 ~ 31] 23%

okay; i officially hate breeding! (yesterday i watched childhood pictures of me and my brother and sister, and got depressed about me being the child with the bad IVs... its getting to my head)

AnarchaArcana May 15th, 2007 6:09 AM

My Next IV question:

As far as breeding for IV's go, is it just dumb luck, or can you control it by having parents with good IV's? (do they pass on only the good, not the bad)?

-Anarchana!

Richard Lynch May 15th, 2007 8:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnarchaArcana (Post 2481609)
My Next IV question:

As far as breeding for IV's go, is it just dumb luck, or can you control it by having parents with good IV's? (do they pass on only the good, not the bad)?

-Anarchana!

They do pass on IVs! But not only the good. It's really random which IVs they will pass on, but if you have two parents with high IVs in the same stats, it's very likely the offspring will also have good IVs in those stats. They pass on two or three IVs to their kids, but that doesn't mean they won't have bad IVs. And likewise, breeding two bad IV Pokes may result in a good IVed offspring. Parents with good IVs is a start, but the rest is really left up to luck.

For example,I have an Adamant Ditto with good Attack IVs and good HP IVs (I haven't calculated the exact IVs, though), and I used that Ditto to breed myself an Aron and a Beldum. They both usually come out with PERFECT IVs in Attack and decent IVs in HP. But I have gotten Arons and Beldums with below average Attack and HP. And Once (as I mentioned above), I got a Beldum with PERFECT IVs in BOTH Attack and HP (although he has piss poor Speed IVs). So if you're not up for random breeding and patience, your best bet is to catch Pokes that can breed with yours (preferably Ditto, but make sure it's the correct nature) and make sure they're high IVed. So either way, it's based upon patience, and a little bit of dirt luck.

EDIT: here's a little method... take the offspring with decent IVs, like a hatched Starmie, and replace it with the starmiw already breeding. See if that turns out anything better, and make it a kind of cycle. I've done this before, and it's just slowly going up the ladder to perfect IVs. Takes a bit more time, but maybe it won't be based on utmost dirt luck.

Crimson Arcanine May 15th, 2007 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graceofbaal (Post 2480785)
Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up a second... you gotta incorporate those EVs into the program, or else some of the IVs could be inaccurate. If you are taking EVs into account, stop reading this now, but if you aren't, it might be best to keep track of which EVs you obtain, and the program you use should have a special spot to put how many EVs you've earned.

Or an easier method: just get maybe around 20 or 30 Rare Candies (In Emerald this was easily done with a high level Pokemon with the trait "pick up", not sure about D/P though), and use the Rare Candies instead of battling to level up. Rare Candies don't take EVs into account, so it's the best thing to use when IV-Breeding.

Its also possible to level a pokemon without the EV's via daycare centre, but of course this is more difficult especially if you are leveling up a pokemon that you wanna keep a move on. Its easier than using 20 or so rare candies. Daycare leveling is exactly the same as leveling up with rare candies and cheaper (Thro as I said you gotta be careful when it comes to moves you wanna keep...)

Storm-DC May 15th, 2007 2:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflame Ninetales (Post 2481817)
Its also possible to level a pokemon without the EV's via daycare centre, but of course this is more difficult especially if you are leveling up a pokemon that you wanna keep a move on. Its easier than using 20 or so rare candies. Daycare leveling is exactly the same as leveling up with rare candies and cheaper (Thro as I said you gotta be careful when it comes to moves you wanna keep...)

no, rare candies is the best way.. just make sure you have 15 and give them to a pokemon, calculate the stats and shut down the game without saving.. so you can re-use them all the time

Crimson Arcanine May 15th, 2007 2:14 PM

Some people can't collect that many >_> Yeah, i suck ;)

Looks like i'm gonna have to assemble a team of Pick Up pokemon...

Storm-DC May 15th, 2007 2:20 PM

well, i also dont have them :), i just fight some high level pokemon with EVs i'd have to add anyway when the IVs appear to be right.. anyway, its more about nature and EV in the first place, IV is only for perfectionizing

Richard Lynch May 15th, 2007 3:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch_Courage (Post 2482210)
well, i also dont have them :), i just fight some high level pokemon with EVs i'd have to add anyway when the IVs appear to be right.. anyway, its more about nature and EV in the first place, IV is only for perfectionizing

True, true... I agree, however, would you rather have a Metagross with 31 Attack IV, or 12 Attack IV? IV training is without a doubt for hardcore Pokemon trainers, but it does make a difference.

Storm-DC May 16th, 2007 4:34 AM

pffff... took me like 50 eggs before getting a modest (or even timid) one again.. and then it's

* HP IV: 6 [2 ~ 10] 8%
* Attack IV: 22 [18 ~ 26] 11%
* Defense IV: 25 [21 ~ 29] 11%
* Sp.Atk IV: 18 [14 ~ 22] 10%
* Sp.Def IV: 3 [0 ~ 6] 8%
* Speed IV: 23 [20 ~ 27] 12%

... i'll put a different staryu with ditto, perhaps it'll get better like that

Paranoia May 16th, 2007 4:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch_Courage (Post 2483081)
pffff... took me like 50 eggs before getting a modest (or even timid) one again.. and then it's

* HP IV: 6 [2 ~ 10] 8%
* Attack IV: 22 [18 ~ 26] 11%
* Defense IV: 25 [21 ~ 29] 11%
* Sp.Atk IV: 18 [14 ~ 22] 10%
* Sp.Def IV: 3 [0 ~ 6] 8%
* Speed IV: 23 [20 ~ 27] 12%

... i'll put a different staryu with ditto, perhaps it'll get better like that

You want a modest and timid staryu definitely right, so have you heard of the Everstone trick?

Probably not, so I'll fill you in, what you need to do is get 25 dittos each with a different nature, so you'll have all natures in your box (Name the ditto's according to their nature! ie; I found a serious ditto, I call it serious)

Then when breeding use the ditto with the correct nature that you want with the pokemon, of course make the ditto hold the everstone, this boosts a 50% of getting the nature ditto has on to the baby, so instead of hatching tons of eggs for one nature, theoretically you only need to hatch 2. This also works with pokemon besides ditto, what it does is it has a 50% chance of passing the Females nature, remember that!

It's hard work, But well worth it.

Storm-DC May 16th, 2007 5:22 AM

hm.. nice trick, didnt know that yet (ditto can reproduce with a second ditto?)..

anyway! i just got this modest staryu:

* HP IV: 28 [25 ~ 31] 15%
* Attack IV: 6 [3 ~ 10] 9%
* Defense IV: 17 [14 ~ 21] 12%
* Sp.Atk IV: 26 [22 ~ 30] 11%
* Sp.Def IV: 10 [6 ~ 14] 9%
* Speed IV: 16 [12 ~ 20] 10%

Now, HP and SP ATK are quite okay! And well.. Speed is just average, but by default Starmie is already really fast, so this might be the one. What do you think?

Paranoia May 16th, 2007 5:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch_Courage (Post 2483105)
hm.. nice trick, didnt know that yet (ditto can reproduce with a second ditto?)..

anyway! i just got this modest staryu:

* HP IV: 28 [25 ~ 31] 15%
* Attack IV: 6 [3 ~ 10] 9%
* Defense IV: 17 [14 ~ 21] 12%
* Sp.Atk IV: 26 [22 ~ 30] 11%
* Sp.Def IV: 10 [6 ~ 14] 9%
* Speed IV: 16 [12 ~ 20] 10%

Now, HP and SP ATK are quite okay! And well.. Speed is just average, but by default Starmie is already really fast, so this might be the one. What do you think?

Just one thing, what do you mean by the 15%, 9%...?

Storm-DC May 16th, 2007 5:45 AM

its from the calculator on legendarypokemon, it's the adjustment rate

Richard Lynch May 16th, 2007 8:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch_Courage (Post 2483105)
hm.. nice trick, didnt know that yet (ditto can reproduce with a second ditto?)..

anyway! i just got this modest staryu:

* HP IV: 28 [25 ~ 31] 15%
* Attack IV: 6 [3 ~ 10] 9%
* Defense IV: 17 [14 ~ 21] 12%
* Sp.Atk IV: 26 [22 ~ 30] 11%
* Sp.Def IV: 10 [6 ~ 14] 9%
* Speed IV: 16 [12 ~ 20] 10%

Now, HP and SP ATK are quite okay! And well.. Speed is just average, but by default Starmie is already really fast, so this might be the one. What do you think?

That looks good to me. I'd rather see Defense and Special Defense a bit higher, but looks like you got the three key elements of a Starmie in high range! Good job. This one's a keeper. Just don't forget to max out Special Attack and Speed with EVs, and put the rest into HP.

And to be honest, I was never fond of this kind of calculator. I've been using MetalKid's since Shane showed me:

http://www.metalkid.info/Pokemon/OnlineProgram/Calculators/IV.aspx

That is by far the most accurate one, and can usually give you exact IVs around level 20. AND it can be downloaded for offline use! Come on, that's pretty friggin' cool.

Storm-DC May 16th, 2007 9:52 AM

i'll look into it.. anyway, thanks for all the help guys :), i'm going with this one then. starmie isn't used that much is it?

Richard Lynch May 16th, 2007 9:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch_Courage (Post 2483285)
starmie isn't used that much is it?

Actually, Starmie is an OU. High tier Pokemon for sure, and one of the best Special Sweepers you can find. Only Special Sweeper I hold in higher regard is Alakazam, and most wouldn't agree with me there. I mean, unless Alakazam has an Electric move, Starmie would easily take him down.

To make a long story short, Starmie is just amazing and I've read that many experienced battlers will, when formulating a team, take into account "Can this team take on Starmie?", and alter the team according to that question.

Storm-DC May 16th, 2007 10:39 AM

well.. i only battled a real life trainer once in france with gold, so if i can start beating up some n00bs for a start it'll be grand. actually i used alakazam allot, but somehow with the changes in r/s and d/p it's not that great anymore. it rocked in r/b!

ihaveaquestion May 16th, 2007 5:02 PM

and.... i think that those iv's totally suck... no offence... catch another... more better one... cause ppl might call you stupid or sumthin if u raise it 2 lvl 100

Richard Lynch May 16th, 2007 6:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch_Courage (Post 2483332)
well.. i only battled a real life trainer once in france with gold, so if i can start beating up some n00bs for a start it'll be grand. actually i used alakazam allot, but somehow with the changes in r/s and d/p it's not that great anymore. it rocked in r/b!

Once you get your full team up and at high levels, let me know, and you can face my in-game team, which normally sucks compared to my normal team (the one on my trainer card below). By the time I beat the Elite 4 and all that jazz, it will probably be around 55 - 60, so aim for those levels!

PS: My in-game team consists of:

Drifblim
Rampardos
Weavile
Bronzong
Alakazam
Empoleon

Paranoia May 16th, 2007 8:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihaveaquestion (Post 2483519)
and.... i think that those iv's totally suck... no offence... catch another... more better one... cause ppl might call you stupid or sumthin if u raise it 2 lvl 100

Do you know what IVs are?!

Storm-DC May 17th, 2007 1:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihaveaquestion (Post 2483519)
and.... i think that those iv's totally suck... no offence... catch another... more better one... cause ppl might call you stupid or sumthin if u raise it 2 lvl 100

which do you mean? the ones in the first post of this thread, or the ones i said i'll go with?

Forci Stikane May 17th, 2007 5:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch_Courage (Post 2483838)
which do you mean? the ones in the first post of this thread, or the ones i said i'll go with?

Do yourself a favor: ignore him. Just go with that Starmie the way you planned to.

Storm-DC May 17th, 2007 1:19 PM

oeh.. as soon it said 510 on my piece of paper i counted the EVs on, i got the effort ribbon.. sometimes math is amazing, it's just 'true' and 'right'.. anyway! evolved it; so it's done! just the moves.. next one: scizor!

ihaveaquestion May 17th, 2007 1:21 PM

... i meant the ones that were first posted.... and don't igrone me.... cause i luv u....

Storm-DC May 17th, 2007 1:29 PM

i'm more or less a politician so i've learned not to ignore anyone, especially people who are not connected to mainstream social groups ;).. anyway. what did you think about the one i used then?

ihaveaquestion May 17th, 2007 1:55 PM

that one is better than the first one... but it could use a little more speed... luv yaz

Richard Lynch May 17th, 2007 2:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch_Courage (Post 2484439)
oeh.. as soon it said 510 on my piece of paper i counted the EVs on, i got the effort ribbon.. sometimes math is amazing, it's just 'true' and 'right'.. anyway! evolved it; so it's done! just the moves.. next one: scizor!

Scizor is actually a pretty interesting Pokemon. Besides a 4x weakness to Fire, it really has no bad weaknesses, and makes a fantastic Baton Passer (not sure if they kept that move in D/P) along with it's typing, good defense, and surprisingly good HP. Just make sure he's Impish, and max out HP and Special Defense, with any remaining in Defense when it comes to EVs.

Storm-DC May 17th, 2007 2:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graceofbaal (Post 2484561)
Scizor is actually a pretty interesting Pokemon. Besides a 4x weakness to Fire, it really has no bad weaknesses, and makes a fantastic Baton Passer (not sure if they kept that move in D/P) along with it's typing, good defense, and surprisingly good HP. Just make sure he's Impish, and max out HP and Special Defense, with any remaining in Defense when it comes to EVs.

ok.. that's completely something else than i was thinking about :p.. i thought an adamant scizor with EVs on attack and HP and perhaps some speed (to be atleast faster than average fast pokemon)..

ihaveaquestion May 17th, 2007 3:30 PM

i agree.... scizor NEEDS to be adamant... attack and speed... all the way...

-if you luv me.... reply


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