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-   -   4th Gen 3rd Game... Sinnoh and Johto too Similar? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=84543)

Jim May 15th, 2007 6:52 AM

3rd Game... Sinnoh and Johto too Similar?
 
Alright, a lot of threads about GS remakes have cropped up along time ago, but my point comes from the actual relations between Johto and Sinnoh. And why I think theat there will be no GS remake and infact Johto will be added on too Sinnohs' third game.
  • Similarities:

  • Jasmine:
    The leader of the Olivine City gym Jasmine is by the route to the Pokémon League. Maybe she'll give a ticket to Johto in the third version? That also makes sense as her Gym is in the City which homes Johtos' Harbor. And this could also mean that there's a new Gym Leader at Olivine.

  • Lakes of Emotion:
    Lake Acuity, Lake Valor, Lake Verity and Lake of Rage? These all house 'Legendary Pokemon' The 3 Emotion Pokemon, Uxie Mesprit and Azelf, I suppose you can Say the Red Gyarados is sort of Legendary. This Could suggest -However unlikely- that there may be a new Legendary that is introduced in he 3rd game, an anger version of Uxie, Mesprit and Azelf, a Red one? But somebody would have found its Sprite in a Glitch or attempted hack by now.

  • Timeline:
    The timeline for GSC is the same as DP. With the Red Gyarados being mentioned right at the start. But this is however a time paradox as Jasmine should be in Johto at that time, thus killing all hope of Johto being in the Third game.

  • Lack of GS remake:
    The lack of GS remake and the fact that Johto is probably the most popular regions supports the evidnce of GS remake or Johto featuring in the third Game in the Sinnoh series.


Well there you have it. Also what features would you like to see if this ever happens, also post more similarities to support this. This may or may not get locked as it's not generally about a Generation II Remake. (If anything it should be stickied with a new title too stop people making '3rd Game?' threads... No? Ok xD )... Discuss!

Edit: Wow, this post seemed a lot bigger when I typed it...

Furanty May 15th, 2007 7:15 AM

That isn't all. In D/P the johto routes are programmed as catching location...

Jim May 15th, 2007 7:34 AM

Really? Well If that's true then it pretty much Proves it then. Why else would they? And like I said Jasmine wouldn't be there for show, she'll mre than likley give you the Ticket or Pass too get to Johto. Just like Bill gave you the Ticket for the first three Sevii islands on FRLG.

Law07 May 15th, 2007 7:41 AM

How do you know Johto routes are catching locations?

Caleb290 May 15th, 2007 8:50 AM

they wouldnt have a new game were you can go to jhoto and it would probably be released or atleast advertised in japan by now and they could not make a new legendary for it and if they did their would be a picture by now

Richard Lynch May 15th, 2007 8:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caleb290 (Post 2481716)
they wouldnt have a new game were you can go to jhoto and it would probably be released or atleast advertised in japan by now and they could not make a new legendary for it and if they did their would be a picture by now

I have no doubt that there will be a third version. Think about it:

Red, Blue... Yellow.
Gold, Silver... Crystal.
Ruby, Sapphire... Emerald.
Diamond, Pearl... ???

It's almost inevitable!

I'm just happy there aren't any houses on trees in Shinnoh.

Caleb290 May 15th, 2007 9:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graceofbaal (Post 2481722)
I have no doubt that there will be a third version. Think about it:

Red, Blue... Yellow.
Gold, Silver... Crystal.
Ruby, Sapphire... Emerald.
Diamond, Pearl... ???

It's almost inevitable!

I'm just happy there aren't any houses on trees in Shinnoh.

Yes I know there will be a new game as well but it wouldnt have jhoto in it to. I hoope the new games name will be jade or platinum and the main legend to be giratina

Jim May 15th, 2007 9:48 AM

How do you know there will be no Johto. Also I have stated in the first post that there is no sprite for a 4th Pokemon, they could add one by Patching the old game with a bit of Data from the new one. Also I know they will Not have a new Legendary, just a thought. But there'll need to be something at the lake of Rage, considering how much Shinies are sought after these days there'll be no Red Gyarados.

And what makes youi think there will be no Johto? Did they just put many johto things there for no reason? Also lack of GS remake supports that idea. Gold, Silver and Crystal had Kanto and Johto, so why wouldn't Diamond, Pearl and ? have Johto. Also Emerald was released 2 years after Ruby and Sapphire so of course it wouldn't be advertised yet. It's logic really and I know I'm probably wrong about Johto being in the 3rd game. I'm just posting my theories too see who agrees with me, and the evidence seems to back up what I'm saying.

Finally, I Personally hope they call it Zircon myself, or Zirconia.

Ell☺ May 15th, 2007 11:41 AM

I agree that they might include going to johto in the next version, but just a thought, what would happen to the island where stark mountain is? Would that become an extra bit AFTER you beat the johto part of the game, or would it just stay the same and it gives you basicly two choices at that part?

Jim May 15th, 2007 11:52 AM

I have no Idea what you just asked but I'm sure Stark Mountain would stay exactly the same. If for some reason you're on about Kanto sharing Johtos League and Victory Road and how Mount Silver connects onto Victory Road then that wouldn't happen because Johto shared Kantos League and Victory Road because they were so close together, you could walk from Johto too Kanto just outside of Victory Road. You have to take a boat from Johto too Sinnoh so it's a completley differant Region so It'd have a differant Victory Road... Probably.

If that's not what you're asking me then I dunno, Johto might not even be added on and I'm not Nintendo am I?

Psi Yamaneko May 15th, 2007 12:38 PM

Johto and Kanto were part of the same land mass, so of course they were both in G/S. Johto is somewhere north of Sinnoh and apparently does tourist trades with that region via ferries.

The Sinnoh storyline takes place shortly BEFORE the events of Johto. The Red Gyarados was only recently discovered at Lake Rage and Jasmine's Pokemon hasn't taken ill yet.

It seems to me to be unlikely that Johto will be in a third game. If it is, you'd probably run into Silver, Gold, Eusine and Lance as they're doing their thing around the time your journey is completed.

One thing I am nearly certain of is that the third game will be called Pokemon Opal and will be centered, plotwise, around Giratina being the forgotten Third Aspect of God (Palkia and Dialga being the first two).

Gyardosamped May 15th, 2007 12:40 PM

Well I also heard that Ninentendo is trying to create a NEW G/S pokemon game. It might be based on the old version and D/P since they are very similar?

Mr.Altosax May 15th, 2007 12:40 PM

We could say that there was um...a cave in...that damaged the Indigo Plateau enough to block access from Kanto. Then you could go through Johto, like everyone wants to without people getting mad about the two being connected. Or there could be an incident with Regigigas, who will probably get the third game storyline, because he's the lvl 70 legend, like Rayquaza was.

Max210 May 15th, 2007 1:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caleb290 (Post 2481741)
Yes I know there will be a new game as well but it wouldnt have jhoto in it to. I hoope the new games name will be jade or platinum and the main legend to be giratina

The third game is going to be called Granite...Giratina

Psi Yamaneko May 15th, 2007 1:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max210 (Post 2482119)
The third game is going to be called Granite...Giratina

Yes Giratina, but it'll be Pokemon Opal. Most likely.

Rivvon May 15th, 2007 2:09 PM

I don't think the third Dual Generation game will have Johto in it, just because of the same reason the Advenced Generation didn't: Shinnoh is an island and is too far away from Kanto/Johto. I cannot say that I don't want them to include Johto, I really do! But the Dual Generation of games really doesn't strike me as a "GSC remake" kind of game. Sure, in Shinnoh there are plenty of references to Johto, but there are plenty to Hoenn as well. Jasmine is in Sunyshore, and a nameless Hoenner is in Heathome. The guy you trade shards with for TMs is from the Weather Institute from Hoenn. There are probably others, and although I must admit the Johto cameos are most prominent, there are plenty of them for Hoenn as well.

Also on the subject of the 3rd Dual Generation game, I heard that Giratina was infact the third counterpart to Dialga and Palkia, but it's odd how he isn't listed directly after them in the Pokedex. And I agree with Max210 with it being "Granite Version," as Pearl and Palkia starts with "P," Diamond and Dialga start with "D," and so, you see my reasoning.

Now if Darkrai were the emphasis, though, I'd love for an "Obsidian Version." xD

Psi Yamaneko May 15th, 2007 2:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivvon (Post 2482186)
I don't think the third Dual Generation game will have Johto in it, just because of the same reason the Advenced Generation didn't: Shinnoh is an island and is too far away from Kanto/Johto. I cannot say that I don't want them to include Johto, I really do! But the Dual Generation of games really doesn't strike me as a "GSC remake" kind of game. Sure, in Shinnoh there are plenty of references to Johto, but there are plenty to Hoenn as well. Jasmine is in Sunyshore, and a nameless Hoenner is in Heathome. The guy you trade shards with for TMs is from the Weather Institute from Hoenn. There are probably others, and although I must admit the Johto cameos are most prominent, there are plenty of them for Hoenn as well.

Also on the subject of the 3rd Dual Generation game, I heard that Giratina was infact the third counterpart to Dialga and Palkia, but it's odd how he isn't listed directly after them in the Pokedex. And I agree with Max210 with it being "Granite Version," as Pearl and Palkia starts with "P," Diamond and Dialga start with "D," and so, you see my reasoning.

Now if Darkrai were the emphasis, though, I'd love for an "Obsidian Version." xD

Opal Version, I'm pretty sure.

Giratina-Girasol

Jim May 16th, 2007 9:54 AM

Well apparently Arceus is the third part of the them, according to Bulbapedia. But he's an event Pokemon so it won't be him on the Box Art. It'll more than likely be centred around Giratina.

Drahc May 16th, 2007 9:58 AM

how many g/s remake threads are there? :|

LethalTexture May 16th, 2007 10:25 AM

I agree with Girantine and Opal version; the version names have to be related, and Granite isnt really a precious gemstone now is it? And there has gotta be something more to Turnback Cave than there is in D/P...

As for Johto making an appearance, as much as I would love it to happen, and as you say there are many references, I can't see it happening at the moment, as was dicussed earlier with the timeline and running into Lance and Silver etc, I can't really see it happening. Unless the game takes you to Johto early enough to before Gold (I believe his name is Kris?) starts his adventure. And also, there maybe a connection between both caves which contain Unown in both Johto and Sinnoh.

Also, on an unrelated note (if this counts as spam please delete) but has anyone else wanted an Electric Yellow version to come out?

Storm-DC May 16th, 2007 10:41 AM

i still feel most home in goldenrod city, love to be able to get back there in a DS-game..

Psi Yamaneko May 16th, 2007 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electivire (Post 2483290)
Well apparently Arceus is the third part of the them, according to Bulbapedia. But he's an event Pokemon so it won't be him on the Box Art. It'll more than likely be centred around Giratina.

As far as we know.

Think about it this way.

Arceus was born from the Cosmic Egg, as the library states and we know he emanated forth Dialga (Time) and Palkia (Space) both aspects of his own power, and from his body created the lives called Uxie, Mesprit and Azelf who more or less fabricated the "conscious" universe (Uxie is Knowledge, Mesprit is Emotion, Azelf is Will).

Then once the universe was in place Arceus withdrew to the Place of Origin and went to sleep.

The story never describes a third aspect but if anyone we've met is it it's Giratina. Giratina has a face like Palkia and Dialga's, he's half Dragon and he has a similar move pool. The thing is that I'm just...not sure what Giratina's role is. My best guess is that he is some sort of self-appointed deity of the Void who doesn't take any role in creation and resents his brothers. After all, he's the Renegade, and he seems to dislike humanity, choosing to spend most of his time in a far away dimension and emerging every spring into the necrohol at Turnback, when it's shrouded in mist. Maybe he's a failsafe of some kind?

Forci Stikane May 16th, 2007 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi Yamaneko (Post 2483334)
As far as we know.

Think about it this way.

Arceus was born from the Cosmic Egg, as the library states and we know he emanated forth Dialga (Time) and Palkia (Space) both aspects of his own power, and from his body created the lives called Uxie, Mesprit and Azelf who more or less fabricated the "conscious" universe (Uxie is Knowledge, Mesprit is Emotion, Azelf is Will).

Then once the universe was in place Arceus withdrew to the Place of Origin and went to sleep.

The story never describes a third aspect but if anyone we've met is it it's Giratina. Giratina has a face like Palkia and Dialga's, he's half Dragon and he has a similar move pool. The thing is that I'm just...not sure what Giratina's role is. My best guess is that he is some sort of self-appointed deity of the Void who doesn't take any role in creation and resents his brothers. After all, he's the Renegade, and he seems to dislike humanity, choosing to spend most of his time in a far away dimension and emerging every spring into the necrohol at Turnback, when it's shrouded in mist. Maybe he's a failsafe of some kind?

Interesting...but they seem to talk about Giratina in that area as if its the controller of death, and not even related to Dialga/Palkia...well, while it IS obvious that Giratina would be the star of the third game (unless they pull a Crystal and make it Mesprit), I don't think it actually belongs with Dialga or Palkia. I think it's more of the anti-Arceus, in a similar vein to the Kyogre/Groudon rivalry back in R/S/E. After all, death is the opposite of life, and they talk about Giratina & Arceus in those respects, so...

Anyway, um...yes, it would be nice to get a G/S remake...but if it happens it won't be for a while, so we will be speculating for some time more.

Jim May 16th, 2007 10:55 AM

Ahh, Suicine wasn't Directly linked too Lugia and Ho-oh. Eventhough Ho-oh created him and his brothers. What made him Special enough to be on the front of Crystal?

You never know, he could be not related to the others in anyway whatsoever. Or he could represent something like Matter or something along that line. Also I have to admit you presnt a strong poin about the Movepool and Half Dragon Typeset. But instead of having Moral debates about said Pokemon we should get back to the topic on hand here.

I've actually been running it through my Brain and I don't think that Johto'll be in the third game. However the possability is still there. There's also the possibilty of a Generation II remake and that Orre and the Sevii islands Replaced Johto. But when it boils down to it, Nintendo is a profit organisation and with the current, let's say demand, for a Gold and Silver Remake there will inevitably be somehing envolving Johto.

Ahh, Me and Ichasti Pekoni posted at the same time with the Point about Crystal. Damn >.<

Furanty May 16th, 2007 11:07 AM

If there is a special version of D/P in future, then the name will be opal, because girasols are specials opals.
Girasol - Giratina

Typhoon May 16th, 2007 11:42 AM

Yeah, Nintendo's gotta realize the demand for a GS remake. It definitely won't be called Zirconia though. Why name the third one after something that's a cheaper imitation of a Diamond?

ihaveaquestion May 16th, 2007 4:57 PM

agreed... did you no that i have a shining zizagoon lvl 100... representin

Ichida May 16th, 2007 4:59 PM

Not to add to the horrible off-topicness of that post, but why would you have a lv100 Zigzagoon at all, shiny or not? Yes, I too am "representing." Representing common freaking sense. <.<;

Psi Yamaneko May 16th, 2007 5:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ichaste Pekoni (Post 2483339)
Interesting...but they seem to talk about Giratina in that area as if its the controller of death, and not even related to Dialga/Palkia...well, while it IS obvious that Giratina would be the star of the third game (unless they pull a Crystal and make it Mesprit), I don't think it actually belongs with Dialga or Palkia. I think it's more of the anti-Arceus, in a similar vein to the Kyogre/Groudon rivalry back in R/S/E. After all, death is the opposite of life, and they talk about Giratina & Arceus in those respects, so...

Anyway, um...yes, it would be nice to get a G/S remake...but if it happens it won't be for a while, so we will be speculating for some time more.

Death is opposite life which, really, started with Mew as the first basic non-deity or with Uxie, Mesprit and Azelf as actual Life. It is NOT, however, opposite Existence. Arceus created the Universe through its Emanations and its children. Dialga and Palkia are Matter and the children are Consciousness (I said all this already). So Giratina is probably less an Anti-Arceus than an anti-Matter (the Void), thus standing against Palkia and Dialga. ...That probably made no sense.

...I veered off topic again, sorry.

ihaveaquestion May 16th, 2007 5:23 PM

1. pick-up

2. its the coolest pokemon name no matter wat u say

3. its got a cool sound when it enters battle

4. i only use it in-game

5. i luv shinies

6. its as cute as u

7. it represents

Ichida May 16th, 2007 5:25 PM

And yet Linoone also has Pickup, is much stronger, looks much slicker than Zigzagoon.

And please, for the sake of the entire board's sanity, stop using the term "represent." It burns the brains of anyone with a triple-digit IQ.

Star★Seeker May 16th, 2007 7:06 PM

Well, Giratina's pokedex description has it as the Rebellion pokemon, here's my plot:
Arseus originally created the world with 3 deitys, Dialga, Palkia and Giratina.Arceus appointed each a domain, Giratina's Domain was Void.Giratina was not pleased,as he wanted more power and veneration(sp?).Giratina rebelled and tried to destroy the world, but the lake trio created Turnback Cave and sealed him inside.But Giratina escped the cave and plunged the world into chaos, but the Trio created Lake of Rage and sealed Giratina once again.

Aethos May 16th, 2007 8:27 PM

THERE BETTER BE A JOHTO REMAKE..tho
what i want the most is just a final game where they make new pokes....
u start of with one..and u choose which region to satrt at
sinno hoenn kanto or johto and just like in GS once u beat that region u go to another one until u beat all....woulnt that be tight? the game owuld be long as crap..but would be entertaining

FullmetalxFangirl May 16th, 2007 8:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivvon (Post 2482186)
Sure, in Shinnoh there are plenty of references to Johto, but there are plenty to Hoenn as well. Jasmine is in Sunyshore, and a nameless Hoenner is in Heathome. The guy you trade shards with for TMs is from the Weather Institute from Hoenn. There are probably others, and although I must admit the Johto cameos are most prominent, there are plenty of them for Hoenn as well.

Kanto wants some love, too D:

Jim May 17th, 2007 6:25 AM

It could turn out that all these things are intended and unintendid Easter Eggs. But I suppose that they've put them there it also leaves it open to Ideas for the Sequel, so they have something too work off. Like they put Jasmine there as a cameo and may turn out using her for one reason or another... All so confusing. But people here are coming up with nice plots maybe we should seige control of Nintendo... Also what's all this talk about a Shiny Zigzagoon?

Forci Stikane May 17th, 2007 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi Yamaneko (Post 2483564)
Death is opposite life which, really, started with Mew as the first basic non-deity or with Uxie, Mesprit and Azelf as actual Life. It is NOT, however, opposite Existence. Arceus created the Universe through its Emanations and its children. Dialga and Palkia are Matter and the children are Consciousness (I said all this already). So Giratina is probably less an Anti-Arceus than an anti-Matter (the Void), thus standing against Palkia and Dialga. ...That probably made no sense.

No, not really.

True enough, death is not the opposite of existence. The opposite of existence would be nothingness, or as you so nicely put it, the Void.

I could say more, but this is neither the time nor place for it (pun not intended).

Psi Yamaneko May 17th, 2007 11:55 AM

I added more to that statement but for some reason the board enjoys not processing my edits suddenly.

In terms of portfolio, Giratina DOES seem opposite Arceus, however, in effect it's opposite to, but on the same level as, Dialga and Palkia. If it were an Anti-Arceus it would be considerably more powerful than it is and it wouldn't resemble Dialga and Palkia so much. I feel strongly that Arceus made it and then it rejected its originally appointed duty in the cosmos for some reason. (Not to mention that if it had to be opposed to Arceus, that would require Arceus taking a more active role in the story which just doesn't happen with Event Pokemon). What that duty is, I couldn't say. But it rejected it and became the Renegade.

renegade: One who rejects a religion, cause, allegiance, or group for another; a deserter.

Eitherway I think we all agree (mostly) that Giratina will be our next-gen avatar. If it is, and Johto makes an appearance as the original post inquired about, do you suppose Giratina and Johto will be somehow intertwined in the plot?

Shiny Umbreon May 17th, 2007 12:38 PM

There can't be such a big change in the same generation. FR/LG added the Sevii Islands, but they were remakes. It would be as if Gold and Silver had had only Johto and ONLY crystal had Johto and Kanto. It's too much change. Also, they wouldn't be making more Pokémon in the same generation. That's why they program Pokémon even if they are unobtainable.

Why so many references to Johot? To clarify when the storyline takes place.

Apart from Emerald, the third game doesn't add many things. Yellow had Pikachu as a starter, Team Rocket and Mew in the Jap version. Crystal had Eusine and the Battle Tower. So Opal (possible name, but it's sure to feature Giratina) will NOT adds many stuff. That includes an entire region.

ihaveaquestion May 17th, 2007 1:05 PM

i have a shining zigzagoon if your were askin... but i don't really think that this thread is all that important...

Ichida May 17th, 2007 1:31 PM

And yet you continue to post in it. <.<

ihaveaquestion May 17th, 2007 1:45 PM

lol... ichida... do u h8 me or sumthin... I GOT IT... ur jealous of shining zigzagoon.... but w/e... its tyt... um... i just don't really understand wat it is sayin... and do u like kirklie(really bad spelling) cause i think that that is the fariest pokemon of all...

Ichida May 17th, 2007 1:55 PM

No idea who "Kirklie" is. I don't necessarily "hate" you, you just annoy me to no end with your weird beliefs regarding Pokemon and lack of anything representing proper usage of English.

ihaveaquestion May 17th, 2007 2:08 PM

well... i luv u... even if u r ugly... but i do h8 it how u always get everything off topic...

Zeturic May 17th, 2007 2:11 PM

If there is an Opal there is 0% chance of Johtp being in it, reasons have already been stated.

I personally do think that the references mean something... So maybe they will make a remake of Gold/Silver... How could the legendary dogs be in it If they were obtainable in Firered/Leafgreen?

Jim May 17th, 2007 2:18 PM

Agggh! Can someone please lock this topic? Thanks for the input everyone but the topic's served it's purpose and is getting Spammy by people who can't spell, punctuate or shut up about Shiny Zigzagoons.

Ichida May 17th, 2007 2:18 PM

The fact is, every Pokemon is obtainable in D/P except for starters and legendaries from the old games, who are easily Pal Parkable, so a third game isn't even needed, whereas with the GBA games there were always Pokemon you could only find in each game.

Psi Yamaneko May 17th, 2007 2:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ichida (Post 2484598)
The fact is, every Pokemon is obtainable in D/P except for starters and legendaries from the old games, who are easily Pal Parkable, so a third game isn't even needed, whereas with the GBA games there were always Pokemon you could only find in each game.

That's the one point that kills my hope a little. However, all the fuss we fans make about GSC does talk so there's money to be made in it. I don't know anyone who wouldn't leap at the chance to play a remake.

And...well. Money talks. Loudly.

ihaveaquestion May 17th, 2007 3:47 PM

i don't know... id like a gold/silver remake... cause i wasn't ever a good enough pokemon master to get those starters from profesor whoever... i'd play it...

ps... zigzagoon is tyt.. he represents...

pps... representin


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