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-   -   The Best Overall Team (Unofficial) (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=89233)

Vainz June 25th, 2007 12:08 PM

The Best Overall Team (Unofficial)
 
First, i would like to say that this is not official in any way. This is simply the opinion of those who post. I got a lot of good responses for the Defense Thread, and i was critizied for the Attack thread. I realize a pure Defense Team is ok, but a pure attack team isnt. I realize that there is a potential for a lot of argument here, so be kind. Here is the Goal of this thread:

Make the best overall team possible. Sweepers, Walls, ect. It will have as few repeating weaknesses as possiable, and there will be no Legendary pokemon.

Here are some starting suggestions:

Attack Sweepers: Scizor, Dragonite, Garchomp, Metagross
SpAttack Sweepers: Alakazam
Walls: Blissey, Shuckle, Dusknoir, Milotic

I know a lot of people will not agree, so dont tell me that, i know. This is not about what kind of team i want. It is about what the general population thinks the best Overall team is. If you have a suggestion please say why. You dont have to use the above pokemon, they are just suggestions. Dont post if you just want to critize my idea.

Aethos June 25th, 2007 3:45 PM

well i would suggest

batton passing scizor
DD dragonite
DD tyrannitar
dusknoir as a wall
alakazam as a sweeper(special)
and either vaporeon (or god forbid the uber stupid) milotic both of which have great wall purposes



in some cases an annoyer such as ludicolo(only has obscure weaknesses, poison, flyinbg and bug) that suck the life of enemies and poison...

thats my opinion done in five minutes XD

Waffle-San June 25th, 2007 4:04 PM

Well for a Attack based based team.

Weavile (Speed)
Arcanine (Attack, sp.Attack)
Swampert (attack)
Lucario (Attack, Sp.Attack)(i find his move pool quite useful)
Dusknoir(Defense with decent Attack)
Salamence Attack, Sp. Attack)

Iceman3k June 25th, 2007 7:20 PM

Jesus Nameless, do you ever offer useful advice?
And for the record, I don't see Weavile defeating a Metagross OR Milotic for not even a millenium.

Quote:

First, i would like to say that this is not official in any way. This is simply the opinion of those who post. I got a lot of good responses for the Defense Thread, and i was critizied for the Attack thread. I realize a pure Defense Team is ok, but a pure attack team isnt. I realize that there is a potential for a lot of argument here, so be kind. Here is the Goal of this thread:

Make the best overall team possible. Sweepers, Walls, ect. It will have as few repeating weaknesses as possiable, and there will be no Legendary pokemon.

Here are some starting suggestions:

Attack Sweepers: Scizor, Dragonite, Garchomp, Metagross
SpAttack Sweepers: Alakazam
Walls: Blissey, Shuckle, Dusknoir, Milotic

I know a lot of people will not agree, so dont tell me that, i know. This is not about what kind of team i want. It is about what the general population thinks the best Overall team is. If you have a suggestion please say why. You dont have to use the above pokemon, they are just suggestions. Dont post if you just want to critize my idea.
Next time around, use the "Request a Team" Topic.
Now let's see what I can whip up.

Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 228 HP / 104 Atk / 176 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Pain Split
- Shadow Claw
A rather strange set I came up with, I'll admit, but it puts Weavile to rest. Pain Split punishes Blissey, while at the same time following up with a Focus Punch. Shadow Claw for the unwanted Ghost-Type Visitors.

Metagross @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spd / 32 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Agility
- Zen Headbutt
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake / Explosion
Classic AgiliGross.

Milotic (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 212 HP / 144 Def / 48 Spd / 104 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam / Dragon Pulse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Sleep Talking Milotic helps prevent Status.

Alakazam (M) @ Choice Specs / Wise Specs
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
- Energy Ball / Hidden Power (Ice)
HP Ice drops Dragon Types.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 212 HP / 216 Def / 80 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Aromatherapy
- Ice Beam / Thunder / Thunder Wave
- Softboiled
- Stealth Rock
Since Blissey can't get Seismic Toss within D/P without the use of Emerald, then that's basically the only way to go there.

Garchomp (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw / Dragon Rush
- Stone Edge
- Crunch / Fire Fang
CBing should be your first form of Physical Sweeping.

I've used 6 of the Pokemon in your desired list. Unless you intend on running Thunderpunch on Dusknoir, your team will suffer from Chronic Gyarados weakness.

Just thought I should point that out.

okothnuva June 25th, 2007 11:05 PM

Metagross wants Thunderpunch badly if you have Emerald.

Garchomp wants a Choice Scarf, with Outrage over Dragon Claw. Fire Fang over Crunch, because Outrage hits Psychics and Ghosts harder than Crunch.

Iceman3k June 26th, 2007 2:01 AM

Perhaps he doesn't have Emerald, and even if he did, he doesn't have room for Thunderpunch on Metagross.

And Outrage on CS Garchomp is only reeling in another Metagross to come in and land a free Agility and attack away.

Nightofshadow June 26th, 2007 4:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3k (Post 2558649)
Jesus Nameless, do you ever offer useful advice?



Of course he doesnt, He thinks he knows pokemon, But he cant even properly play it

Richard Lynch June 26th, 2007 5:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okothnuva (Post 2558989)
Metagross wants Thunderpunch badly if you have Emerald.

Garchomp wants a Choice Scarf, with Outrage over Dragon Claw. Fire Fang over Crunch, because Outrage hits Psychics and Ghosts harder than Crunch.

Garchomp needs Fire Fang, or else he'll pretty much be beaten by Skarmory. Or Levitating Bronzong, if you ever see him, seeing as how both of them counter almost every other move a standard Garchomp carries. Even if Fire Fang is a physical move (won't OHKO Skarm), but it will put a decent dent in her.

Anyways, this is my normal team that I use, and so far I've done pretty well (and let it be known I don't use stat-boosters besides Agility, which is my primary downfall):

Skarmory
Claydol
Blissey
Gengar
Milotic
Metagross

One of the best staller teams, even without a Dusknoir; Between Skarmory, Claydol and Blissey (also Milotic to take physical water and physical ice attacks), they resists nearly every move in the existence. Gengar and Metagross are my only true attackers, and even then Metagross doubles as a decent physical wall (his Defense nearly matching his enormous Attack).

Oh, BTW:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3k (Post 2558649)
Metagross @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spd / 32 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Agility
- Zen Headbutt
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake / Explosion

A Metagross without Earthquake is like a day without sunshine. Explosion over Zen Headbutt, if you can't get Thunder Punch. I have Thunder Punch on my Gross from Emerald, but since I'm rebreeding for IVs, I think Explosion works well instead. As for EVs... take the Special Defense and about 20 of the Speed EVs and put them into HP. Since this is Agiligross, youdon't need too many Speed EVs, unless you want to outrun Aerodactle (who outran me once) or the likes after one Agility.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 212 HP / 216 Def / 80 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Aromatherapy
- Ice Beam / Thunder Wave
- Softboiled
- Stealth Rock

If you can't get Seismic Toss, then Counter is a good alternative. Don't use Thunder... too bad of an accuracy to work on Bliss. Ice Beam is generally preferred, and Stealth Rock can come in handy, but I prefer Spikes (on a Skarmory) myself. Oh, and max out both HP and Defense in EVs, with the 6 left over in Special Defense or Special Attack. That's a given.


Vainz June 26th, 2007 6:31 AM

Ok, we have a lot to add up here. I am very pleased with the outcome so far. Lets focus on one problem at a time. What should we use as a Physical Sweeper. We will get to the rest, but just for now, what should we use as a physical sweeper.

Here are some that you have said:
Dragonite- Weaknesses: Dragon, Ice, Rock
-Base Attack: 134, Speed: 80

Garchomp-Weaknesses: Dragon, Ice
-Base Attack: 130, Speed: 108

Tyranitar- Weakness: Fighting, Water, Ground, Grass, Steel
-Base Attack:134, Speed: 61 (also good Def and SpDef)

Metagross- Weakness: Fire, Ground
-Base Attack:135, Speed: 70 (Metagross also could be used for his good defense)

Salamence-Dragon, Ice
-Base Attack:135, Speed:100

I am guessing most of us know what EV's can do. I think the bases of a good physical sweeper are Attack and Speed. Dragonite, Salamence, and Tyranitar can learn Dragon Dance, which is always good for sweeping. Post to show which is the best choice and why and then we will pick based on what you say.

Punishment June 26th, 2007 6:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3k (Post 2558649)
Milotic (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 212 HP / 144 Def / 48 Spd / 104 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam / Dragon Pulse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Sleep Talking Milotic helps prevent Status.

A sleep talking Milotic is very unreliable in tight situations. Sure you can prevent status effects but it does have Marvel Scale and a BLissey on the team with Aromatherapy.

Milotic doesn't really need any speed EVs either as she isnt made to outrun many Pokemon thus her role as a wall and limited sweeper. Bold Nature is prefered here as suggested above. Really the EV spread should be something like this:

252 Def / 200 HP / 58 SDEF

If she is going to be a bold and somewhat of a physical wall and counter to the likes of Salamence then she needs all the Defense she can get. Her Special Defense is already high as it is and not to many Pokemon can pierce it.

Moveset should be:

-Surf (for STAB)
-Ice Beam (for pesky Dragons and Grass types etc.)
-Recover
-Hypnosis/Mirror Coat

Personally I think Hypnosis is a way better move then Mirror Coat especially if Milotic is taking the role of physicl wall then a special wall. Sure Mirror Coat can get you a free OHKO but people are weary of attack Milotic with Special Attacks these day. They try and go for her lower Defense. Hynosis on the other hand is very viable because it can disable those other bulky water types Milotic has trouble with.

Faceless* June 26th, 2007 8:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3k (Post 2558649)
Jesus Nameless, do you ever offer useful advice?
And for the record, I don't see Weavile defeating a Metagross OR Milotic for not even a millenium.

what are you talking about? you can't expect one pokemon the end off the whole team, weavile defeats a whole lot of the pokemon the person has mentioned (goddam it iceman, learn to understand, play, post correct stuff, not stupid stuff)

Nightofshadow June 26th, 2007 8:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nameless111 (Post 2559635)
what are you talking about? you can't expect one pokemon the end off the whole team, weavile defeats a whole lot of the pokemon the person has mentioned (goddam it iceman, learn to understand, play, post correct stuff, not stupid stuff)

Uh, Ive played iceman and ive played you. Your WAY behind him. How are you going to sit here and tell him to learn to play andpost correct stuff when your completely WRONG?

Iceman3k June 26th, 2007 8:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nameless111 (Post 2559635)
what are you talking about? you can't expect one pokemon the end off the whole team, weavile defeats a whole lot of the pokemon the person has mentioned (goddam it iceman, learn to understand, play, post correct stuff, not stupid stuff)

Well now, Mr. Weavile-can-beat-a-Metagross has some words for me.

And dude, I've been doing research on the D/P Metagame LONG before it came to the U.S. Since November of last year actually.

Hmph. Once I finish compiling my team, I'd like to have a match with you someday.

Vainz June 26th, 2007 9:10 AM

Lets clear some things up that dont seem to be clear. I am strongly against that kind of language Nameless111. If you do it again i will report it. Weavile is not even that good of a pokemon when its all said and done. It has horrible Defense, a Dragonite could beat it easily, escpecially if you are using the wrong attacks. It could not beat Milotic, Scizor, or Metagross, and that is a good chunk of the list. Besides, i was only giving those as suggestions, not as the whole team. Can we stay on topic now.

Faceless* June 26th, 2007 9:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightofshadow (Post 2559641)
Uh, Ive played iceman and ive played you. Your WAY behind him. How are you going to sit here and tell him to learn to play andpost correct stuff when your completely WRONG?

WHOA WHOA easy, when did this ever get to u?

and iceman, its all only saying, weavile will destroy most posted up there,

dang it guys why do you all hate me a whole bunch? what did i ever do to you? T_T (cept for nightofshadows, QUIT BUGGIN ME! :( )

Iceman3k June 26th, 2007 9:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nameless111 (Post 2559774)
and iceman, its all only saying, weavile will destroy most posted up there

I think maybe it's time I explained little by little.

Let's say for example you send in Weavile against someone's Dragonite, and attempt to pull an Ice Punch.
The enemy switches and Sends in Milotic, doing absolutely nothing to it.
That cycle repeats itself over and over.

I'd also like to point out that trying to send Weavile against a Dragonite OR Salamence with Dragon Dance in is completely useless. Weavile can't switch in on a Earthquake / Dragon Claw / Dragon Rush / Fire Fang / Stone Edge or whatever else while the enemy has 1 DD under his belt.

I also don't see Weavile doing any type of Damage to Scizor or Shuckle at all either.

The only Pokemon in that list that Weavile can ever hope to harm is Blissey and Alakazam, but they're most likely to switch out to something that can take Weavile's Hits. Weavile can hurt a Garchomp, heavily assuming it isn't carrying Choice Scarf. Other than that, Weavile can't hurt anything.

Your problem is, you need to learn what counters what, and you shouldn't be thinking of just Type Weaknesses. There's a lot more to it than that.

Faceless* June 26th, 2007 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3k (Post 2559824)
I think maybe it's time I explained little by little.

Let's say for example you send in Weavile against someone's Dragonite, and attempt to pull an Ice Punch.
The enemy switches and Sends in Milotic, doing absolutely nothing to it.
That cycle repeats itself over and over.

I'd also like to point out that trying to send Weavile against a Dragonite OR Salamence with Dragon Dance in is completely useless. Weavile can't switch in on a Earthquake / Dragon Claw / Dragon Rush / Fire Fang / Stone Edge or whatever else while the enemy has 1 DD under his belt.

I also don't see Weavile doing any type of Damage to Scizor or Shuckle at all either.

The only Pokemon in that list that Weavile can ever hope to harm is Blissey and Alakazam, but they're most likely to switch out to something that can take Weavile's Hits. Weavile can hurt a Garchomp, heavily assuming it isn't carrying Choice Scarf. Other than that, Weavile can't hurt anything.

Your problem is, you need to learn what counters what, and you shouldn't be thinking of just Type Weaknesses. There's a lot more to it than that.

yes, but my type of weavile would know sucker punch if they used an attack

Waffle-San June 26th, 2007 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3k (Post 2559824)
I think maybe it's time I explained little by little.

Let's say for example you send in Weavile against someone's Dragonite, and attempt to pull an Ice Punch.
The enemy switches and Sends in Milotic, doing absolutely nothing to it.
That cycle repeats itself over and over.

I'd also like to point out that trying to send Weavile against a Dragonite OR Salamence with Dragon Dance in is completely useless. Weavile can't switch in on a Earthquake / Dragon Claw / Dragon Rush / Fire Fang / Stone Edge or whatever else while the enemy has 1 DD under his belt.

I also don't see Weavile doing any type of Damage to Scizor or Shuckle at all either.

The only Pokemon in that list that Weavile can ever hope to harm is Blissey and Alakazam, but they're most likely to switch out to something that can take Weavile's Hits. Weavile can hurt a Garchomp, heavily assuming it isn't carrying Choice Scarf. Other than that, Weavile can't hurt anything.

Your problem is, you need to learn what counters what, and you shouldn't be thinking of just Type Weaknesses. There's a lot more to it than that.

I think he means, that if a Weavile has the right move pool, it could beat most of them one on one. What you failed to point out is that when they trade there Dragonite for a Milotic, He could trade his Weavile for a Torterra or something, then the cycle never ends.

Portujesus June 26th, 2007 12:58 PM

There's no better team. But there are standard pokémons, wich are:
Blissey;
Skarmory;
Boah(Not so much, but normally Dragonite and Tyranitar).

That's about how every team is made. No team is flawless.

Vainz June 26th, 2007 1:04 PM

What is with you people. Just let it go. Those pokemon up there were not even a team, so what is the big deal. You are blowing it way out of proportion. Can we please get back on target. We need to pick a Phsyical Sweeper. Someone post about this so we can get the ball rolling in the right direction.

EXAMPLES of Phsyical Sweepers:

Dragonite- Weaknesses: Dragon, Ice, Rock
-Base Attack: 134, Speed: 80

Garchomp-Weaknesses: Dragon, Ice
-Base Attack: 130, Speed: 108

Tyranitar- Weakness: Fighting, Water, Ground, Grass, Steel
-Base Attack:134, Speed: 61 (also good Def and SpDef)

Metagross- Weakness: Fire, Ground
-Base Attack:135, Speed: 70 (Metagross also could be used for his good defense)

Salamence-Dragon, Ice
-Base Attack:135, Speed:100

I know attacks have a lot to do with the choice but i am to lazy to type those. Dragonite, Salamence, and Tyranitar all have DD.

Vainz June 26th, 2007 1:12 PM

Portujesus, i never said i was trying to make a flawless team. I simply wanted to see people argue there point on which pokemon are better than others in certain situations. You cant have a flawless team, but you can try to make a team that can deal with the most situations possible, without opening yourself up to a certain weakness. I just want opinions on what the best made team could be, not The Undisputed Champion Team on Earth.

Punishment June 26th, 2007 1:15 PM

As overrated as Garchomp is I think he is better then Metagross, Tyranitar and Salamence to a certain extent because of his abnormally high base Speed Stat.

Tyranitar is nice but I never liked his multiple weakness especially the ones to the umm common Surf.

Waffle-San June 26th, 2007 1:23 PM

I like Salamence as a sweeper but I don't get why he has to be eather physical or special. With the right nature he can have fairly even stats where you can take advantage of both.
examples of moves (i won't list any low accuracy recharge moves)
flamethrower, Extremespeed, Earthquake, Solarbeam, Crunch, Shadow Ball?, Fly or some flying attack, Dragon Claw etc.

Richard Lynch June 26th, 2007 1:25 PM

Metagross is by far one of the top physical sweepers. Because besides a Poison immunity, he has resistences out the butt hole. Many things that aren't super effective are "not very effective". The only types which are normal effective attacks that he may have problems with are Water and Electric, and Electric is basicallycovered with Earthquake (as is his Fire weakness). Water is covered by (if you're lucky enough) Thunder Punch. If you don't have Thunderpunch, thenmost bulky waters (like Milotic) laugh at 'Gross. The ONLY weakness Metagross can't counter is Ground, unless you have Ice Punch or the likes.

Vainz June 26th, 2007 2:16 PM

This is more like it. You all had good arguments. Garchomp does have high speed and Attack. If only he had DD, he would be perfect. The reason Salamence is not a Special Sweeper is because if i choose Salamence, i would give him a nature to support Attack, and i would make his EV's Attack and Speed. This way he has the attack of a God. Metagross i think is the best choice. It has very high atttack, it doesnt need speed because it has defense, and he has numerous resistances and few weaknesses. If you feel like this would be a bad choice (or a better one exists), please post why. Next we need to pick a Special Sweeper.

Here are some examples:

Alakazam
Weaknesses: Dark, Ghost, Bug
Base SPAttack: 135, Speed: 120

Porygon-Z
Weakness: Fighting
Base SPAttack: 135, Speed: 90

Gengar
Weakness: Dark, Ghost, Psychic
Base SPAttack: 135, Speed: 110

Espeon
Weakness: Dark, Ghost, Bug
Base SPAttack: 130, Speed: 110

Punishment June 26th, 2007 3:05 PM

I'd go with Porygon-Z for it's insane base Attack. It has an ability that powers up same type attacks so imagine a STAB Hyper Beam from this bad boy. He also has Nasty Plot at his disposal so even one of these will completely obliterate a Pokemon. He also has Tri-Attack to top it off.

What about Togekiss? It too is an awesome Special Sweeper.

Iceman3k June 26th, 2007 9:26 PM

For the record, Gengar's Base SAtk is 130, not 135. ^^'

Now then, out of that list, Porygon-Z makes an excellent Sp. Sweeper. It gets Thunderbolt and Ice Beam, and can also run Tri Attack, which gets a friendly 1.5 Boost thanks to Adaptability, making it completely scary even with STAB.

Nasty Plot also helps on it if you can pull one off. Otherwise, I'd usually run with Dark Pulse, and give it Life Orb, Choice Specs, or Wise Specs.

Vainz June 27th, 2007 6:28 AM

Sorry about the Gengar mistake. I agree about the Porygon-Z. We will go with that. So far we have:

[email protected] ??
EV's: Attack-255, Defense-255
Nature:
-Meteor Mash
-Thunder Punch
-Earthquake
-??

[email protected] Choice Specs
EV's SpAttack-255, Speed-255
Nature:
-Tri-Attack
-Dark Pulse or Nasty Plot
-Ice Beam
-Psychic (I put this in to make sure no fightingh types can get a shot in.)

If you would like me to change something, please post. Now we are going to move on to walls. Do we need a physical AND speical wall, or do we need two good walls in both areas. Here are some suggestions. Shuckle is not on this list because his terrible HP makes his God defense not worth it.

Examples:

Probopass
Base Def: 145, SpDef: 150
Weak: Water, Ground, Fighting

Skarmory
Base Def: 140, SpDef: 70
Weak: Fire, Elec

Dusknoir
Base Def: 135, SpDef: 135
Weak: Dark, Ghost

Blissey
Base HP: 255, SpDef: 135
Weak: Fighting

Mantine
Base Def: 70, SpDef: 140
Weak: Elec, Rock

Umbreon
Base Def: 110, SpDef: 130
Weak: Fighting, Bug

Milotic
Base Def: 79, SpDef: 125
Weak: Grass, Elec

Most of these pokemon have tactics specific to them. Ex. Skarmory, Blissey. If you have another suggestion, just post. Otherwise just post which one would be the best choice and why.

buizel6 June 27th, 2007 7:18 AM

I would suggest probably skarmory and Blissey, that way you can spike rock them as well as have sturdy walls. probably give skarm whirlwind,spikes,rocks, and roost. but im not sure about blissey's moveset. im not the best person for blissey advice

Vainz June 27th, 2007 7:59 AM

I think we should go with a Dusknoir. It has great Def and SpDef. It can cut walls down to size with Pain Split, with Pressure, you can break down PP. Not affected by Normal or Fighting, and only weak against Dark and Ghost. I also like to use a Curse Dusknoir.

Pain Split Noir

[email protected] Leftovers
EV's Def: 255, SpDef:255
Nature:Calm
-Pain Split
-Rest
-Mean Look
-Shadow Punch

Curse Noir

[email protected] Leftovers
EV's Def: 255, SpDef:255
Nature:Calm
-Curse
-Rest
-Mean Look
-Destiny Bond

Punishment June 27th, 2007 8:02 AM

Dusknoir is awesome. There are so many good walls but so little space. Most of these walls serve a dual purpose too. Skarmory is a Spiker, Bliss a Healer, Milotic a Special Attacker, Umbreon a Toxi-tank Wish supporter. Kinda hard to choose.

Vainz June 27th, 2007 8:16 AM

I agree Punishment. i like Dusknoir, but we need to pick the two that stand out above the rest. I think Dusknoir could handle the most situations that could occur. It will be hard to choose two that everyone agrees with.

c_dog June 27th, 2007 8:16 AM

It's actually kinda funny though, that mixed infernape can take apart most of these walls by himself. flamethrower takes care of skarmory, close combat takes care of blissey and umbreon, and grass knot with good prediction on switch-ins or after nasty plot takes care of milotic...

Vainz June 27th, 2007 8:28 AM

Thank you for pointing that out c_dog (i am not being sarcastic if it sounds like it). We have already choosen a pokemon that has a weakness to fighting, Porygon-Z, and we already have a weakness to fire, Metagross. We could POSSIBLY have two of the same weakness, but i would rather not. Dusknoir fits these requirements.

Punishment June 27th, 2007 8:31 AM

Well lets eliminate Probopass and Mantine. Sure Probopass has an insane base defense stat his weaknesses are to commmon.

So we have Skarmory, Blissey, Milotic and Umbreon left.

Vainz June 27th, 2007 8:35 AM

I say we go Milotic and Dusknoir. That way we have no repeating weaknesses. Agree or Disagree?

Punishment June 27th, 2007 8:44 AM

With the advent of powerful fighting moves, Blissey and Umbreon dont last as long as they use to. Everyone is expecting a Skarmory on nearly every team so it ownt last long as it use too.

Milotic on the other hand is a handy dandy Pokemon. IT can switch into a sweeper or special sweeper. I've seen it take Grass and Electric attacks like nothing. Though the latter you have to be a bit cautious. Not to mention Ice Beam takes care of those pesky grass types. (and the rampaging dragons)

So yeah I agree on Dusknoir and Milotic.

sims796 June 27th, 2007 8:46 AM

Agreed. I always had a bit of trouble fighting Milotic. However, I wouldn't rule out Blissey just yet. Sure, she's spoken of so much her name sounds redundant, but with the right moveset, she still last. Problem with her is that her moveset is also too standard (I'm tired of hearing Siesmec Toss).

c_dog June 27th, 2007 9:00 AM

I think Milotic makes the best physical wall these days since most teams have counters for Skarms and Blissey. Skarms fall easily to any decent mix sweeper with fire attacks, as opposed to 3rd gen when people had to carry magnimite with magnet-pull. Blissey is a victim of the new poweful fighting attacks such as close combat, effectively cutting its usefulness. Umbreon was never that good a wall to be honest and it hasn't changed(Vaporeon always was and always will be better).

Punishment June 27th, 2007 9:03 AM

But Boltbeam Blissey is getting quite popular these days too.

Milotic is the choice then. Not to many people are running Grass moves these days.

As for the Umbreon/Vaporeon thingy Umbreon servs a different purpose. Her role is a Toxi-tank and I am pretty sure Vaporeon can never take that role. But Blissey and Umbreon falter to the new mosts such as Close Combat and even a Focus Punch.

Vainz June 27th, 2007 9:15 AM

Ok. Sounds like we all agree on Milotic. I think that Blissey is always used too. People are starting to put powerful fighting moves to take on Blissey, and besides, we already have a normal type, and two normal types on a team is a bad idea. Alright. This is the total team we have so far:

[email protected] ??
EV's: Attack-255, Defense-255
Nature:
-Meteor Mash
-Thunder Punch
-Earthquake
-??

[email protected] Choice Specs
EV's SpAttack-255, Speed-255
Nature:
-Tri-Attack
-Dark Pulse or Nasty Plot
-Ice Beam
-Psychic (I put this in to make sure no fightingh types can get a shot in.)

[email protected] Leftovers
EV's SpDef: 255, Def: 255
Nature: Calm
-Mean Look
-
-
-

[email protected] Leftovers
EV's SpDef: 255, ???
Nature: ???
-Ice Beam
-Surf
-Recover
-

We will figure out natures, attacks, EV's after we pick all the pokemon. Now we need to decide on the last two pokemon. Do we want a Baton Passer, another wall, or an all around good pokemon?
We will take any suggestions. Remember, we already have weaknesses to:

Fire
Fighting
Ground
Grass
Elec
Dark
Ghost

We want as few repeating weakness as possible.

Punishment June 27th, 2007 9:19 AM

What we need in there is an annoyer. May I suggest Ludicolo which is a Grass/Water which is weak to only Bug (meh), Poison and Flying. It is one of the few Pokemon, Milotic and most bulky types have troble taking out. It laughs at all attempts of Surf and Ice Beam.

I also think we need a FLying type in there or a Pokemon with Levitate.

Vainz June 27th, 2007 9:53 AM

I agree that we need a levitate, flying type, or a pokemon that is resistant to ground attacks. Someone with a Sweeping Garchomp could really hurt us. Ludicolo is OK. It has a shaky Def. Poisn Fang, Poisn Tail, X-Scissor is probably a OHKO. I think we use a Heracross. It is resistant the Ground attacks, Base Attack:125, Base SpDef: 95. We have Megahorn for Grass, Psychic, and Dark. Close Combat for Blissey, Earthquake for fire types, Rock Slide for flying types.

[email protected] ??
EV's Attack-255, ??
Nature:
-Earthquake
-Megahorn
-Close Combat
-Rock Slide

Richard Lynch June 27th, 2007 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vainz (Post 2562587)
[email protected] Leftovers/Life Orb
EV's: 252 Attack, 152 HP, 104 Speed
Nature: Adamant
-Meteor Mash
-Thunder Punch/Explosion
-Earthquake
-Agility/Magnet Rise

Unless you're NOT using Choice Band, go with Agility. You have no idea how being able to outrun your foe puts you at an advantage. And NEVER put 255 EVs into a single stat, as it's not divisible by 4. To max one out, all you need is 252. For Gross, go with: 252 Attack, 152 HP, and 104 Speed. If you're using a Choice band, then go with max Attack and max HP.

Here's my personal Choice Band setup:

Metagross @ Choice Band
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 HP, 6 Speed
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch/Explosion
- Pursuit/Ice Punch


(Metagross will often cause a switch, so Pursuit can do some serious damage, and maybe even a OHKO, as you then switch out against the one coming in).

Magnet Rise is more of a novelty, BTW... but a Metagross without a Ground weakness is so much harder to take down, being that his ONLY weakness becomes Fire. It essentially becomes Levitating Bronzong, but with amazing Attack, which is why I mention it. You could even replace Explosion/Thunder Punch with it. If you're lucky enough to Agility AND use Magnet Rise, it's nearly a clean sweep for Metagross, as Earthquake will take care of most Fire-using Pokes.

Waffle-San June 27th, 2007 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vainz (Post 2562736)
I agree that we need a levitate, flying type, or a pokemon that is resistant to ground attacks. Someone with a Sweeping Garchomp could really hurt us. Ludicolo is OK. It has a shaky Def. Poisn Fang, Poisn Tail, X-Scissor is probably a OHKO. I think we use a Heracross. It is resistant the Ground attacks, Base Attack:125, Base SpDef: 95. We have Megahorn for Grass, Psychic, and Dark. Close Combat for Blissey, Earthquake for fire types, Rock Slide for flying types.

[email protected] ??
EV's Attack-255, ??
Nature:
-Earthquake
-Megahorn
-Close Combat
-Rock Slide

I'd still much rather have a sweeping Salamence but since we're past that, the way you put it Heracross seems pretty ideal, except its also weak to fire (I believe Garchomp can also learn ffire type moves) like Metagross. I also wouldn't trust Rock Slide to take out flying types, it's let me down before.

Punishment June 27th, 2007 10:18 AM

Maybe Skarmory in the set? It does Fly and be the overused Spiker. I still stand by Ludicolo. Sure those attacks can kill it but how many people would really leave it out to get KOED?

It is a perfect staller again bulky Pokemon. (especially water types)

Vainz June 27th, 2007 10:30 AM

Ok, how is this set up Richard Steel.

Metagross @ Choice Band
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP.
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Magnet Rise/Explosion

Personally, i dont like Magnet Rise. It only lasts for 5 turns, and even with Choice Band, it can get outrun and hit by an Earthquake. Metagross has a Defense instead of HP, so i think EV's should focus on speed if he is a sweeper. I am sorry about EV's mistake. The Serebii.net description didnt say anything about that.

Vainz June 27th, 2007 10:47 AM

Ok, First the Salamence. I have no problem adding Salamence to the team. It would be a good flying type, good against Garchomp, except for Dragon moves (Salamence could outrun Garchomp anyway). It would be hard finding a GOOD team without repeating any weaknesses. Rock Slide is out, Stone Edge is in. If a Garchomp came out, i would switch to Milotic. You are right about Garchomp, most people run him with a Fire Fang. I think Milotic does its job of stalling, and Ludicolo is no good against protecting physical attacks. A good fighting type could take care of Ludicolo.

Richard Lynch June 27th, 2007 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vainz (Post 2562859)
Ok, how is this set up Richard Steel.

Metagross @ Choice Band
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP.
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Magnet Rise/Explosion

Personally, i dont like Magnet Rise. It only lasts for 5 turns, and even with Choice Band, it can get outrun and hit by an Earthquake. Metagross has a Defense instead of HP, so i think EV's should focus on speed if he is a sweeper. I am sorry about EV's mistake. The Serebii.net description didnt say anything about that.

Yeah, that's why I say Magnet Rise is a novelty. But it could make Gross able to take on a Garchomp, even with Fire Fang. I agree about focusing on Speed, and I once thought you should max out Speed for CBgross. But his Speed is already below average, so if you max out HP, that would be more helpful. And HP is so much more important than the Defenses - the difference between great Defense and below average Defense, in terms of damage from a STABed Earthquake, can be as little as 20 HP. That's why I say to focus on HP before Defenses.

Oh, and with Choice Band, it's customary never to use a non-attacking move, like Agility or Magnet Rise. The only things I would change in that lineup is switch HP and Speed for EVs, and bag Magnet Rise in favor of Explosion. With Choice Band, Explosion is nearly a guaranteed OHKO, even on a Skarmory, who otherwise resists it.

Choice Band Metagross is seriously a monster (one of the more feared CBers, if you ask me), and if played right he can sweep an entire team, despite not having acess to Swords Dance, or the likes.

Vainz June 27th, 2007 11:05 AM

Ok, i agree 100%. This is the new lijne up for Metagross.

Metagross @ Choice Band
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 HP, 6 Speed
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Explosion

I've gotta say, thats a nice Metagross.

Punishment June 27th, 2007 11:16 AM

Okay I am going to hammer out Milotic's Move Set.

-Ice Beam
-Surf
-Recover
-Hypnosis

Ice Beam is a given. Hit those dragons hard and cover her grass weakness. Surf is for STAB, so anything that doesn't resist it will be washed away. Recover over Aqua Ring because it is about quantity. If Milotic is going to take a hit from an electrical attack from a slow Pokemon it needs means of recovering the lost HP fast. Plus we already have Leftovers.

Hypnosis because it goes in hand with Recover. Opponents cringe when their Pokemon is slumbering. Sure Mirror Coat is good and might get a nice KO over something but Milotic usually gets swept next turn from a revenge kill. Most people are also expecting Milotic to have Mirror Coat so they usually send out a Physical Sweeper to take care of her.

sims796 June 27th, 2007 11:16 AM

On Ludicolo, that seems nice. With Swift Swim, it could be unmercifully fast, and with base 90 sp.att, and pretty good type in my opinion, it could be of use.

Punishment June 27th, 2007 11:18 AM

Ludicolo is nice. Not to mention it covers other weaknesses not already taken. It is meant to be a Drainer/Annoyer. Ludicolo isnt supposed to be put up against Physical Sweepers anyways. With Leech Seed and a combination of Toxic to top it off with Leftovers Ludicolo can easily sap opponents into submission.

Waffle-San June 27th, 2007 11:20 AM

I gotta agree that is a nice Metagross but (maybe it's just me) see more of a down side to using a Choice Band, I just don't like the idea of having to use the same move over and over again. Sicne we're focusing a lot on HP, what about a Life orb, I don't know how much it decreases HP but it'd give us a chance to use more of a variety and beready for a baton passer.

Just my opinion, it's already very intimidating.

Punishment June 27th, 2007 11:21 AM

I too am not a fan of Choice Bands. Life Orb only takes down about 10% of the HP so I would go with that. Explosion can compliment this because once Metagross looks like it can take no more send if off with a good bang.

Waffle-San June 27th, 2007 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punishment (Post 2563032)
I too am not a fan of Choice Bands. Life Orb only takes down about 10% of the HP so I would go with that. Explosion can compliment this because once Metagross looks like it can take no more send if off with a good bang.

Very true so are we already to leave Metagross, I think its looking pretty good now, and for everyone elses sake I won't mention Salamence again.

sims796 June 27th, 2007 11:25 AM

So you're sayin' use Metagross till you can't use 'im no more with Life Orb, then pull a kamikaze? Not bad, since he's built to pull that off.

sims796 June 27th, 2007 11:26 AM

Sorry, I posted too late. what are we up to now?

Vainz June 27th, 2007 11:27 AM

First, let me start by saying that i have never met a person who likes Milotic more than Punishment. I put in Hypnosis, i know you really like that move (i have read those same two paragraphs in many differnet threads). I will put in Ludicolo if someone can give me a GOOD moveset for him. I still am not even sure about Ludicolo, but if you guys put faith in him, then we will try.

sims796 June 27th, 2007 11:34 AM

Ludicolo-Swift Swim
Energy Ball
Surf
Leech Seed
Rain Dance/Substitute

I don't really know if this is a great moveset, but I believe so. Rain Dance for speed boost, or Substitute for Staller tactics.

Then again, The last time I used him was in Emerald.

Punishment June 27th, 2007 11:36 AM

Milotic is my favorite Pokemon after all.

A moveset for Ludicolo could go like this. This is the stall/wall/annoyer set by the way.

Ludicolo @ Leftovers
Calm | Rain Dish

-Rain Dance/Ice Beam/Surf/Energy Ball/Grass Knot/Giga Drain
-Leech Seed
-Toxic
-Substitute

The reason I chose Rain Dish over Swift Swim is because if it is to be an annoyer it doesnt need the speed. Rain Dance is something nice people overlook these days especially with all the Tyranitars running around with Sandstorms. A nice way to counter the effect and set up for Milotic.

Of course we can drop Rain Dance altogether for Ice Beam, Surf, Energy Ball, Giga Drain or Grass Knot.

Waffle-San June 27th, 2007 11:36 AM

I'm not a big fan of Ludicolo I'd rather have one of the R/S/E fossils, better move pool IMO. I say all three arn't "worthy"

Vainz June 27th, 2007 11:38 AM

I will replace choice band with Life orb. I dont like Leech Seed. Mabye a Toxic instead, but i really dont like Leech Seed. If he does use Toxic, then he needs to be more defensive.

Waffle-San June 27th, 2007 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punishment (Post 2563094)
Milotic is my favorite Pokemon after all.

A moveset for Ludicolo could go like this. This is the stall/wall/annoyer set by the way.

Ludicolo @ Leftovers
Calm | Rain Dish

-Rain Dance/Ice Beam/Surf/Energy Ball/Grass Knot/Giga Drain
-Leech Seed
-Toxic
-Substitute

The reason I chose Rain Dish over Swift Swim is because if it is to be an annoyer it doesnt need the speed. Rain Dance is something nice people overlook these days especially with all the Tyranitars running around with Sandstorms. A nice way to counter the effect and set up for Milotic.

Of course we can drop Rain Dance altogether for Ice Beam, Surf, Energy Ball, Giga Drain or Grass Knot.

i think you've shed some light on Ludicolo for me but I'm still not sold. I think we could find better annoyer/staller.

sims796 June 27th, 2007 11:43 AM

Leech Seed and Toxic tobether makes a pretty good combo, but if we are looking for another annoyer/staller, how about Crobat?

Punishment June 27th, 2007 11:44 AM

Leech Seed is a good recovery move in itself. It can drain up to 1/8 of your opponents. Think about the amount it would take off a Blissey. Not to mention Toxic is at its disposal.

sims796 June 27th, 2007 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punishment (Post 2563114)
Leech Seed is a good recovery move in itself. It can drain up to 1/8 of your opponents. Think about the amount it would take off a Blissey. Not to mention Toxic is at its disposal.

Those moves are useless on Blissey. Switching out canels both Leech Seed and Toxic, what with Natural Cure.

Punishment June 27th, 2007 11:54 AM

Whoops I guess I am taking this into a really situational scene. Well I'd do awesome damage against a Blissey if it was the last Pokemon. Hmm well there must be better annoyers out there.

sims796 June 27th, 2007 11:56 AM

I did say Crobat...I find him annoying when I battle him...

Punishment June 27th, 2007 12:00 PM

Yeah Crobat would do. It is part flying and really speedy. Not to mention annoying. I noticed this team lacks a naturally speedy Pokemon. We may need one of those an Crobat fits the description.

Vainz June 27th, 2007 12:43 PM

I will gladly agree to a Crobat. We do need a fast pokemon, and it is part flying. I also want more opinions on the Heracross idea. If you dont want Heracross, just post why. I know somone commented on it earlier. Here is the updated list:

[email protected] Life Orb
EV's: Attack-252, HP-252, Speed-6
Nature: Adamant
-Meteor Mash
-Thunder Punch
-Earthquake
-Explosion

[email protected] Choice Specs
EV's SpAttack-252, Speed-252, HP-6
Nature:
-Tri-Attack
-Dark Pulse or Nasty Plot
-Ice Beam
-Psychic

[email protected] Leftovers
EV's SpDef: 252, Def: 252, HP: 6
Nature: Calm
-Mean Look
-
-
-

[email protected] Leftovers
EV's SpDef: 252, ???
Nature: ???
-Ice Beam
-Surf
-Recover
-Hypnosis

[email protected]
EV's Speed: 252, Attack: 252, HP: 6
Nature:??
-
-
-
-

I dont know the usual moves for Crobat so you will have to fill me in.

Espeon Master June 27th, 2007 12:51 PM

How about:

Crobat
Adamant Nature
-Cross Poison
-Brave Bird
-X-Scissor
-Steel Wing

Maybe? Or you could use Hypnosis and Roost

sims796 June 27th, 2007 12:59 PM

Crobat-Adamant
Posion Fang/Cross Poison
Haze
Confuse Ray/Mean Look
Aerial Ace/Mean Look

This set is both annoying and effective, in my opinion. Poison Fang for STAB and Toxic chance. Haze is truly annoying, and most importantly, annoying. Confuse Ray for more annoyance, Aerial Ace for additional attacking move. Either could be exchanged with Mean Look, to further annoy & cripple


EDIT: Espeon Master just reminded me, Cross Poison could work instead of Poison Fang, but it loses the chance to Toxic.

Vainz June 27th, 2007 1:26 PM

Ok updated moveset for Crobat. If you dont like it, just post the change and why. We still need a last pokemon. I like Heracross. I also think we could use a baton passer. Scizor?

[email protected] Life Orb
EV's: Attack-252, HP-252, Speed-6
Nature: Adamant
-Meteor Mash
-Thunder Punch
-Earthquake
-Explosion

[email protected] Choice Specs
EV's SpAttack-252, Speed-252, HP-6
Nature:
-Tri-Attack
-Dark Pulse or Nasty Plot
-Ice Beam
-Psychic

[email protected] Leftovers
EV's SpDef: 252, Def: 252, HP: 6
Nature: Calm
-Mean Look
-
-
-

[email protected] Leftovers
EV's SpDef: 252, ???
Nature: ???
-Ice Beam
-Surf
-Recover
-Hypnosis

Crobat-Adamant
EV's Attack- 252, Speed-252, Hp-6
-Posion Fang
-Haze
-Mean Look
-Aerial Ace/Confuse Ray

sims796 June 27th, 2007 1:31 PM

Scizor to me is the ultimate baton passer. He could pass Swords Dance, Agility, and Iron Defence.

Punishment June 27th, 2007 1:51 PM

Well then we can't have a Crobat. If we add Scizor as cool as he is then half the team would have a glaring weakness to Fire.

sims796 June 27th, 2007 2:05 PM

So you're saying that Scizor can take Crobat's place? No scarcasm, I'm just confused. And I didn't even notice our little fire weakness.

Punishment June 27th, 2007 2:20 PM

I'm saying if we plan to include two of these Pokemon: Metagross, Crobat, Scizor, one of them has to go. Half the time is weak to fire which can be exploited.

I'm not trying to suggest Scizor takes Crobats place. We all want to keep Metagross so it is either Scizor or Crobat that has to go. Personally I dont think we need Scizor. (as great as he is)

sims796 June 27th, 2007 2:44 PM

Oh yes, yes yes. We have five, and need one more. My mistake. This is kinda fun, everyone coming up with a great team (which we probably won't use ourselves)

So, on Heracross,how bout this

Heracross-Guts
Adamant
Megahorn
Close Combat/Brick Break
Pursuit
Stone Edge

With this, it could sweep through almost anything, but don't we have a sweeper?

Vainz June 27th, 2007 3:42 PM

all right we have some decisions to make. We have several pokemon to chose from. As Punishment said, we can only have one of these pokemon, due to the weaknesses to fire. We will not have more than two pokemon with the same weakness. Here are the pokemon:

Scizor (Baton Pass)
HP-70
A-130
D-100
SA-55
SD-80
S-65

Crobat (Annoyer/Speed)
HP-85
A-90
D-80
SA-70
SD-80
S-130

Heracross (Attack Sweeper)
HP-80
A-125
D-75
SA-40
SD-95
S-85

Its funny how all of these pokemon are from the Johto Region. The reason i suggested Heracross was because i wanted to find a decent pokemon that could resist ground attacks. I have posted the Base Stats for each of these pokemon. i think that we should go with either Heracross or Scizor. Crobat is fast and annoying, but he is unable to compete with pokemon like Dragonite, Milotic, plus many people run steel types, and i hate how poison cant even effect them.

Punishment June 27th, 2007 3:51 PM

We can go with Scizor but even if we choose Heracross along with it we still have half the team weak to fire. Metagross, Scizor and Heracross. We need something with speed so I am going to suggest a Garchomp.

Vainz June 27th, 2007 4:00 PM

I only meant for us to chose one of those pokemon on that list. Garchomp would be a good pokemon for the last choice. We could have Salamence and Dragonite for that matter. I do think it should be at least part dragon, seeing as we dont have one of those yet. Since we will probably have at least two pokemon weak against fire, we should balance it out with many pokemon resistant to fire(i.e. Dragon type).

Waffle-San June 27th, 2007 4:01 PM

Okay I noticed that Dusknoir doesn't have a move set and we don't have a designated annoyer.

So how bout
-Curse
-Confuse ray/Calm Mind
-Toxic
-Shadow Punch

and we change his nature from Calm to Sassy, which raises Sp.Def and lowers Speed.

Punishment June 27th, 2007 4:02 PM

I am gonna go with Scizor. He is only weak to Fire and his Defense and Attack stats are great. Heracross is weak to flying and fire etc.

As for the last Pokemon I nominate Garchomp definately. This team needs Speed and he has it.

Waffle-San June 27th, 2007 4:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vainz (Post 2563921)
I only meant for us to chose one of those pokemon on that list. Garchomp would be a good pokemon for the last choice. We could have Salamence and Dragonite for that matter. I do think it should be at least part dragon, seeing as we dont have one of those yet. Since we will probably have at least two pokemon weak against fire, we should balance it out with many pokemon resistant to fire(i.e. Dragon type).

Salamence definatly, it has strong Attack, Sp. Attack and Speed stats and decent defense and sp.def for an attack based pokemon, plus I like it better.

Edit:Garchomp's base speed stat is only 2 better than Salamences, 100 to 102, he is better defensively though, but water attacks do normal damage.

Vainz June 27th, 2007 4:12 PM

I was wondering why you guys wanted a annoyer. Dusknoir is an annoyer, he just also makes a great wall. His moveset should probably be:

[email protected] Leftovers
EV's Def-252, SpDef-252, HP-6
Nature: Sassy
-Curse
-Mean Look
-Rest
-Shadow Punch Or Confuse Ray

He does not need Toxic because by the time toxic kicks in, he will already be killed by Curse. (1/4) of HP each turn. Mean Look makes it so he cant run from Curse (Muhahahah). Rest so that he can get healed after Curse. Shadow Punch or Confuse Ray to shave off more HP or to annoy even more.

Punishment June 27th, 2007 4:17 PM

If we do go with Salamence I did always like the Draco Meteor one. I went up against one and it completely dented my teams walls. All it does it hit and run but still enough to cripple teams.

Waffle-San June 27th, 2007 4:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vainz (Post 2563958)
I was wondering why you guys wanted a annoyer. Dusknoir is an annoyer, he just also makes a great wall. His moveset should probably be:

[email protected] Leftovers
EV's Def-252, SpDef-252, HP-6
Nature: Sassy
-Curse
-Mean Look
-Rest
-Shadow Punch Or Confuse Ray

He does not need Toxic because by the time toxic kicks in, he will already be killed by Curse. (1/4) of HP each turn. Mean Look makes it so he cant run from Curse (Muhahahah). Rest so that he can get healed after Curse. Shadow Punch or Confuse Ray to shave off more HP or to annoy even more.

I say keep one attaking move in Shadow Punch, and then decide between Rest and confuse Ray.

Curse
Mean Look
Rest/Confuse Ray
Shadow Punch

And just a random thought here, we could get a speedy pokemon like Ninjask/Crobat/Weavile as a fifth with Sunny Day and then throw a Salamence out there as a sixth with Solarbeam to take care of any pesky Milotics.
I'm not going to serious with this just something that could be grown apon.

Edit: Woops got Salamence mixed up with Arcanine, Salamence can't learn Solarbeam, ignore^^

Vainz June 27th, 2007 4:26 PM

This is a tough choice. On the one hand, Salamence is uneffected by ground attacks, has DD under his belt, and honestly, he looks better than Garchomp. On the other hand, Garchomp has one less weakness than Salamence, and has more speed (even if it is only a little). If we go with Scizor, we should go with Salamence. If we go with Crobat or Heracross, then we go with Garchomp.

Waffle-San June 27th, 2007 4:29 PM

I personally find Heracross very overrated. Ice moves are more effective on Salamence but because of Garchomp ground types some moves that are ussually not very efective are of normal effect.
My main reason for posting, whats DD?

Vainz June 27th, 2007 4:32 PM

I agree Mr.May16. We will go with Rest. Confuse Ray is fun to do to people, but it is only useful 50% of the time. Final Choice:?

[email protected] Leftovers
EV's Def-252, SpDef-252, HP-6
Nature: Sassy
-Curse
-Mean Look
-Rest
-Shadow Punch

Waffle-San June 27th, 2007 4:33 PM

Metagross
Porygon-Z
Dusknoir
Milotic
Scizor/Heracross/Crobat/Weavile
Salamence/Garchomp

What looks scarier?

Vainz June 27th, 2007 4:34 PM

I would just like to add that Dusknoir could doom a Blissey. Not even Aromatherapy can cure a curse. It can use softboiled all it wants, its not going to win.

Vainz June 27th, 2007 4:37 PM

Nothing Mr.May 16, Nothing. This is the line up i think we should use.

Dusknoir
Milotic
Metagross
Porygon-Z
Scizor
Salamence

Once again. Nothing.

Waffle-San June 27th, 2007 4:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vainz (Post 2564031)
Nothing Mr.May 16, Nothing. This is the line up i think we should use.

Dusknoir
Milotic
Metagross
Porygon-Z
Scizor
Salamence

Once again. Nothing.

Nothing? like none of them look more scary and ya I agree with you, that's why I put them all in the first block.
Lookin at this makes me sad, makes me miss the Salamence my brother traded when he stoll my Pearl, but anyways I think we've made a scary team.
Now we need move sets for Salamence and Scizor.

Avolition June 27th, 2007 4:48 PM

Does Salamence still do the Dragon Dance thing?

Vainz June 27th, 2007 4:51 PM

We will wait till the other usualls have a chance to respond. It took a while but i think we made some good choices. Plus, besides the sticky threads, we have the most popular string on this topic. I am going to change my trainer card to fit the team we made if the others agree.

Punishment June 27th, 2007 4:52 PM

Well do we want to go with the Physical Sweeping Salamence or the Hit and Run Draco Meteor-mence. Personally I'd go with the Draco Meteor Salamence. Being the first Pokemon it can just use Draco Meteor heavily damaging what is out in front of it. If the opponent is smart they'd swithc out their crippled Pokemon. Basically that is when we pull Salamence out and rest the field with Dusknoir.

As for one of Dusknoir's moves...

why isn't Will-o-Wisp one of them? It can basically stop all Physical Sweepers in their tracks.

I also agree on the team we have chosen. A sCizor would setup a Porygon-Z perfectly.

Vainz June 27th, 2007 5:03 PM

The reason Dusknoir doesnt have wil-o-wisp is because it is unnessary with Curse on hand.

Avolition June 27th, 2007 5:03 PM

But what else would Dusknoir do after it does Mean Look and Curse? It would just sit there and wait for the Pokemon to die.


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