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-   -   Need Help on Gengar Moveset (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=89609)

Pro Bob June 27th, 2007 10:04 AM

Need Help on Gengar Moveset
 
I can't figure out what my last move for my Gengar should be.

[email protected]
~Modest
~Levitate
Moves:
-Thunderbolt
-Sludge Bomb
-Shadow Ball
-

Any suggestions?

Vainz June 27th, 2007 10:10 AM

Try a Destiny Bond. That way when you know its going to faint, you can take the last pokemon your fighting with you.

Pro Bob June 27th, 2007 10:28 AM

Ok I'll try that out. Thanks :)

Richard Lynch June 27th, 2007 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Bob (Post 2562769)
I can't figure out what my last move for my Gengar should be.

[email protected]
~Modest
~Levitate
Moves:
-Thunderbolt
-Sludge Bomb
-Shadow Ball
-

Any suggestions?

Hmmm... there could be a few options. First, I would bag Sludge Bomb. It's a STAB, but Poison isn't the best attacking type. Energy Ball is decent, and can take out Swampert. Hypnosis can be great, although (I know this from experience), Gengar has trouble pulling it off because of his piss poor Defenses. Psychic can also be helpful, or even Focus Blast.

Or if you want to surprise your foe, go with a SubPunching Gengar:

Gengar @ leftovers
Lonely Nature (+Attack, -Defense)
EVs: 252 Attack, 180 Speed, 78 Special Attack
- Focus Punch
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt
- Fire Punch/Ice Punch/Explosion

This thing takes a while to get used to, but it is the ULTIMATE Blissey destroyer. Shadow Ball or Thunderbolt (while doing decent damage in itself) will lure Blissey into play, and Substitute up if Blissey has Ice Beam, or if it's non-Ice Beam Blissey, just use Focus Punch, and BAM, bye-bye Blissey.

Faceless* June 27th, 2007 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Bob (Post 2562769)
I can't figure out what my last move for my Gengar should be.

[email protected]
~Modest
~Levitate
Moves:
-Thunderbolt
-Sludge Bomb
-Shadow Ball
-Destiny Bond

Any suggestions?

take out sludge bomb (poison type attacks are horrible to use, even w/ though, STAB) , keep shadow ball for STAB

Faceless* June 27th, 2007 1:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Steel (Post 2562995)
Hmmm... there could be a few options. First, I would bag Sludge Bomb. It's a STAB, but Poison isn't the best attacking type. Energy Ball is decent, and can take out Swampert. Hypnosis can be great, although (I know this from experience), Gengar has trouble pulling it off because of his piss poor Defenses. Psychic can also be helpful, or even Focus Blast.

Or if you want to surprise your foe, go with a SubPunching Gengar:

Gengar @ leftovers
Lonely Nature (+Attack, -Defense)
EVs: 252 Attack, 180 Speed, 78 Special Attack
- Focus Punch
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt
- Fire Punch/Ice Punch/Explosion

This thing takes a while to get used to, but it is the ULTIMATE Blissey destroyer. Shadow Ball or Thunderbolt (while doing decent damage in itself) will lure Blissey into play, and Substitute up if Blissey has Ice Beam, or if it's non-Ice Beam Blissey, just use Focus Punch, and BAM, bye-bye Blissey.

you know that punches are physical right? .. if you do why you wanna do it with its poor 65 attack? XD

can genger really learn explosion? even if it can, i think destiny bond could be a little better


ALL except that good suggestionz

Richard Lynch June 27th, 2007 1:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nameless111 (Post 2563330)
you know that punches are physical right? .. if you do why you wanna do it with its poor 65 attack? XD

can genger really learn explosion? even if it can, i think destiny bond could be a little better


ALL except that good suggestionz

Yes, and that's the point of SubPunching Gengar (often called "McIceGar", I think). With Lonely nature and Maxed EVs in Attack, he can do a hefty amount of damage with Focus Punch, and good damage with the Elemental Punches. Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball is there just to lure Blissey into play, which would then result in an OHKO with Focus Punch. And yes, Gengar can learn Explosion. When he's not gonna survive much longer, Explode for a possible OHKO on anything that doesn't really resist it.

You rarely see this setup anymore, most people (like myself) go with a pure Special Sweeper set, but as I said, it's the ultimate Blissey destroyer, and along with Explosion it should take down another Poke before going down himself.

EDIT: I think you mistook "Focus Punch" for "Focus Blast". This Gengar setup is meant to be a surprise physical variation of Gengar, and he's one of the few who can pull it off quite well.

Faceless* June 27th, 2007 3:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Steel (Post 2563393)
Yes, and that's the point of SubPunching Gengar (often called "McIceGar", I think). With Lonely nature and Maxed EVs in Attack, he can do a hefty amount of damage with Focus Punch, and good damage with the Elemental Punches. Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball is there just to lure Blissey into play, which would then result in an OHKO with Focus Punch. And yes, Gengar can learn Explosion. When he's not gonna survive much longer, Explode for a possible OHKO on anything that doesn't really resist it.

You rarely see this setup anymore, most people (like myself) go with a pure Special Sweeper set, but as I said, it's the ultimate Blissey destroyer, and along with Explosion it should take down another Poke before going down himself.

EDIT: I think you mistook "Focus Punch" for "Focus Blast". This Gengar setup is meant to be a surprise physical variation of Gengar, and he's one of the few who can pull it off quite well.

ah, i see what you mean :)

but i still think destiny bond might be better

Samson June 27th, 2007 3:16 PM

i use a Gengar with Focus Punch + Substitute as well. i specifically thought it up because i hate blissey. i didn't know it was common XD

funkeboodha June 27th, 2007 4:09 PM

question about Destiny Bond
 
quick question about it. there were a few times that i used Destiny Bond and the foe got to me before i was able to use it. does it still work if you do it the round before, anticipating that someone is going to outspeed you the next round and take you down?

Pro Bob June 27th, 2007 5:14 PM

Thanks for the help guys. What should I replace Sludge Bomb with if I take it out? Yeah I know about subpunch Gengar but I'm gonna stick with special sweeper. So far I have

-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Destiny Bond
-?

c_dog June 27th, 2007 6:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Bob (Post 2564126)
Thanks for the help guys. What should I replace Sludge Bomb with if I take it out? Yeah I know about subpunch Gengar but I'm gonna stick with special sweeper. So far I have

-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Destiny Bond
-?

as suggested earlier, energy ball is a good one.

Pro Bob June 27th, 2007 9:21 PM

Hmm.. What are the main uses for energy ball? I know that ground is super effective against Gengar but I have levitate. And there might be another move that has more use than Energy Ball and I can stick with neutral damage against Swamperts.

c_dog June 27th, 2007 10:01 PM

energy ball is just an option. gives you better type coverage than sludge bomb. or you can go with giga drain. with his high sp.att it can recover significant hp with it.

sludgebomb isn't great because it's only useful against grass types which aren't that common, and on the other hand many common steel types are immune to it(skarm, metagross, scizor, jirachi, etc). if you want stab you always have shadowball.

Paranoia June 27th, 2007 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Steel (Post 2563393)
Yes, and that's the point of SubPunching Gengar (often called "McIceGar", I think). With Lonely nature and Maxed EVs in Attack, he can do a hefty amount of damage with Focus Punch, and good damage with the Elemental Punches. Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball is there just to lure Blissey into play, which would then result in an OHKO with Focus Punch. And yes, Gengar can learn Explosion. When he's not gonna survive much longer, Explode for a possible OHKO on anything that doesn't really resist it.

You rarely see this setup anymore, most people (like myself) go with a pure Special Sweeper set, but as I said, it's the ultimate Blissey destroyer, and along with Explosion it should take down another Poke before going down himself.

EDIT: I think you mistook "Focus Punch" for "Focus Blast". This Gengar setup is meant to be a surprise physical variation of Gengar, and he's one of the few who can pull it off quite well.

Gengar can't OHKO blissey, Her HP is just way too high, and gengar doesn't get the stab, it'll just be more of a surprise than a blissey killer, kill her with it when she has low health.

Richard Lynch June 28th, 2007 5:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paranoia (Post 2564795)
Gengar can't OHKO blissey, Her HP is just way too high, and gengar doesn't get the stab, it'll just be more of a surprise than a blissey killer, kill her with it when she has low health.

I don't know about that... my Blissey just barely survives an un-STABed Cross Chop (by about 12 HP, to be correct), and that's base 100 power. Focus Punch is base 150 power, and I'd think with Lonely nature and max Attack EVs, Gengar could get the job done.

Samson June 28th, 2007 7:49 AM

yeah he's right richard. it does a little over 50% after leftovers recovery to any standard blissey. even with full attack evs, he just doesn't have the sufficient power to take out a blissey with over 700 HP. but it's still enough to take blissey out in two turns. you just have to be smart about it, especially if by any chance, it's a Calm Mind Blissey.

Pro Bob June 28th, 2007 10:03 AM

Hmm.. either way I don't think I'm going to make my Gengar a Sub-Punching Gengar. Waht do you guys think of adding Focus Blast to Gengar? I know it's a risk if I miss, but it does cover Dark and Steel types. Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, and Focus Blast cover most types, if not all. Then I have Destiny Bond for backup. Overall, what do you think of

-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
-Destiny Bond

Off topic: So far my team has Gengar and Dragonite, would Infernape make a good addition?

Paranoia June 28th, 2007 1:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Bob (Post 2565828)
Hmm.. either way I don't think I'm going to make my Gengar a Sub-Punching Gengar. Waht do you guys think of adding Focus Blast to Gengar? I know it's a risk if I miss, but it does cover Dark and Steel types. Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, and Focus Blast cover most types, if not all. Then I have Destiny Bond for backup. Overall, what do you think of

-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
-Destiny Bond

Off topic: So far my team has Gengar and Dragonite, would Infernape make a good addition?

I prefer Hynosis, and like Richard said before, Energy ball is such a good idea (Plus it OHKO swapert!)

Richard Lynch June 28th, 2007 2:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samson (Post 2565516)
yeah he's right richard. it does a little over 50% after leftovers recovery to any standard blissey. even with full attack evs, he just doesn't have the sufficient power to take out a blissey with over 700 HP. but it's still enough to take blissey out in two turns. you just have to be smart about it, especially if by any chance, it's a Calm Mind Blissey.

Eh, I trust a person who actually uses SubPunch Gengar. :p

Although, it is the ultimate surprise; the enemy now knows that no one can really be sent to counter Gengar, since Blissey gets nailed with Focus Punch (Blissey and Gengar are arch enemies, as we all know).

And yeah... for a pure sweeping Gengar, go with this:

- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast/Hypnosis
- Energy Ball/Hypnosis

One of the last two can be replaced with Hypnosis, but as I said, Hypnosis on Gengar is tricky, with it's below average accuracy. Eventually you'll come across a situation where either it hits and puts the foe to sleep, or it misses and the enemy OHKOs you. I say if you do go with Hypnosis, use it with caution, so far as to try to only use it on predicted switch-ins, so if it does miss, it's no skin off your back, and Gengar isn't threatened with a KO.

Pro Bob June 28th, 2007 6:44 PM

I think I am going to stay away from Hypnosis because of its accuracy. I'm hoping I won't need to it actually beat them with it though. So I guess I'll have to use either Energy Ball or Focus Blast. I was thinking about how I'm supposed to beat Steel types, and Focus Blast really does seem like an effective method as most Steel types have a higher Defense than Special Defense.

sims796 June 28th, 2007 8:51 PM

What about Blissey, though? Still wanna counter it?

Knowledge is power June 28th, 2007 10:47 PM

-Hypnosis
-Dream Eater
-Thunderbolt
-Destiny bond/Physic

Hypnosis and Dream eater make a deadly combination, get the target pokemon to sleep and use dream eater, reduces targets pokemon and restores health ;)

Paranoia June 28th, 2007 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowledge is power (Post 2567926)
-Hypnosis
-Dream Eater
-Thunderbolt
-Destiny bond/Physic

Hypnosis and Dream eater make a deadly combination, get the target pokemon to sleep and use dream eater, reduces targets pokemon and restores health ;)

Yeah it would be a good strategy, but unlike the CPU, real players switch out their pokemon that get status infected.

n3croart June 29th, 2007 12:22 AM

Gengar @ Leftovers Lv. 100
Adamant / Modest Nature
- Ice Punch
- Explosion
- Sludge Bomb / Giga Drain / Focus Punch
- Thunderbolt

Substitute may help too.

Archer June 29th, 2007 3:44 AM

Curse. if you come up against a stat-upper that is kiling your team, if you can outspeed it you can curse, then stall with a skarmbliss untill it dies. It could also be a pseudohazer. i think he wants to use one new move, not an entirely new moveset.

Pro Bob June 29th, 2007 9:16 AM

Once again, I want my Gengar to be a Special Sweeper, not a Blissey Counter. Right now I'm leaning towards this moveset:

-Shadow Ball
For STAB
-Thunderbolt
Type Coverage
-Focus Blast
Steel, Rock, and Dark
-Destiny Bond
To take them down with me if I know I'm in certain death

What do you guys think?

Paranoia June 29th, 2007 4:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Bob (Post 2569256)
Once again, I want my Gengar to be a Special Sweeper, not a Blissey Counter. Right now I'm leaning towards this moveset:

-Shadow Ball
For STAB
-Thunderbolt
Type Coverage
-Focus Blast
Steel, Rock, and Dark
-Destiny Bond
To take them down with me if I know I'm in certain death

What do you guys think?

As I said before, I don't like destiny bond, but I guess it is a good idea, you could use it to take out walls like dusknoir and spiritomb.

Oh and instead of focus blast, think about energy ball.

Samson June 29th, 2007 6:07 PM

destiny bond relies on speed. the biggest reason why gengar gets KOed is because it's slower than what it is going up against. if you're slower, than Destiny Bond goes second, and therefore, makes it useless.

Paranoia June 29th, 2007 7:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samson (Post 2570758)
destiny bond relies on speed. the biggest reason why gengar gets KOed is because it's slower than what it is going up against. if you're slower, than Destiny Bond goes second, and therefore, makes it useless.

Yeah, thats why it is a great dusknior and spiritomb killer, as they are always last.

Richard Lynch June 29th, 2007 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paranoia (Post 2570929)
Yeah, thats why it is a great dusknior and spiritomb killer, as they are always last.

I love going up against Spiritombs... great chance to set up Spikes from my Skarmory (since she takes mediocre damage, even from special attacks). Never tried it with a Dusknoir, but with his piss poor attack, I think it could work.

That's the problem with walls... gives your enemy a chance to set something up, or at least lay down one set of Spikes, if you're not careful with your prediction.

But anyways, I agree to replace Focus Blast with Energy Ball. Focus Blast is an option, but it has bad accuracy... which makes me in favour of not using it except with Choice Specs on a Gar or Zam... with that power, if it hits, it's nearly an OHKO on anything that doesn't resist it (not named Blissey).

Pain Split is another move I've been tinkering around with... if you plan right, you can actually use it in your favour; ie, if the opponent thinks you'll attack (thus using Pain Split), you just switch out to a Pokemon with low HP, and it's free recovery time!

MegaDitto June 29th, 2007 8:18 PM

Try Explosion for the final move. With Life Orb attached. D:

Richard Lynch June 29th, 2007 8:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleach and Sunshine (Post 2571093)
Try Explosion for the final move. With Life Orb attached. D:

I dunno about that one... only reason would be to TRY to OHKO Blissey if he needed to. But a Timid Gengar's Attack max is 206... and I don't think that's enough to get the job done. I could be wrong, though. Either way, the last slot could be better served with another special attacking move, if you ask me.

Hyunbin June 29th, 2007 10:48 PM

wouldn't night shade be a better move than shadow ball? since it gets 100 power at lv100?

Smarties-chan June 29th, 2007 10:58 PM

Quote:

wouldn't night shade be a better move than shadow ball? since it gets 100 power at lv100?
A Gengar with Night Shade is just asking to get its butt kicked. Night Shade doesn't get 100 power at level 100, it just does 100 fixed damage and Gengar will be able to do more than 100 damage to almost everything using Shadow Ball, Energy Ball, Thunderbolt or Focus Blast. Besides, Gengar's defenses aren't the best and Night Shade is used to slowly wear down your opponent, which Gengar completely fails at.

Alter Ego June 29th, 2007 11:13 PM

I lol at some of the posts here, I really do. Destiny Bond is meant to take down sweepers, not walls. -.- Anyways, on this set:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Bob (Post 2569256)
-Shadow Ball
For STAB
-Thunderbolt
Type Coverage
-Focus Blast
Steel, Rock, and Dark
-Destiny Bond
To take them down with me if I know I'm in certain death

It looks okay, Timid Nature with maxed Speed and SAtk in this case, probably should have Life Orb as a hold item. Just as food for thought, though, you might want to consider Sludge Bomb and Energy Ball potential options for special moves, depending on what you want it to hit. Hypnosis could also work over Destiny Bond, but that's a matter of taste.

anemos June 30th, 2007 3:58 AM

try ice beam, it can double as mcgar

Smarties-chan June 30th, 2007 4:04 AM

Quote:

try ice beam, it can double as mcgar
Check your facts, Gengar can't learn Ice Beam.

anemos June 30th, 2007 5:31 AM

oh, i'm sorry. Ice punch can work too. in fact, thats better in DP because ice PUNCH is physical. Thanks smarties-san

Smarties-chan June 30th, 2007 5:38 AM

Quote:

oh, i'm sorry. Ice punch can work too. in fact, thats better in DP because ice PUNCH is physical. Thanks smarties-san
Why would it be better? Gengar's Sp.Attack is twice as high as its Attack so Ice Punch's change from special to physical only hurts Gengar.

funkeboodha June 30th, 2007 7:51 AM

i've had good success with Gengar and Destiny Bond. i have it with Focus Sash so that it always holds on. As someone mentioned before, it's hard to say what to do when you encounter an opponent faster than you....


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