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-   -   2nd Gen What happened to Ground being good on Grass Pokemon? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=92320)

ShadowTails July 10th, 2007 6:57 PM

What happened to Ground being good on Grass Pokemon?
 
I remember in RYB you could easily defeat a grass type by using a ground move. I remember this odd type advantage and they fixed it from GSC on, but go try it. Find a wild Oddish or something and take it out with Dig it's super effective in RYB... I don't know why they changed it on the next generation, but yeah I always wondered about it.

haffeysucks July 10th, 2007 7:11 PM

I'll try it...I have my old Lime Green Game Boy Color on my nightstand with Red in the cartridge slot. :D

Naito July 10th, 2007 7:14 PM

If I'm correct, before Grass didn't effect anything with Ground-type moves. Oddish was part posion, so Dig would've been super-effective. Now it's not very effective against grass, so normal damage is dealt instead of 2x.

ShadowTails July 10th, 2007 7:17 PM

I've noticed now adays that the same Pokemon I was able to destroy with ground moves have them "not very effective" anymore.

Ayano Katagiri July 10th, 2007 7:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowTails (Post 2611448)
I've noticed now adays that the same Pokemon I was able to destroy with ground moves have them "not very effective" anymore.

E.g. The good old Dig on Gastly and Haunters which was super effective was cancelled out by Levitate.
Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelicExcalibur (Post 2611432)
If I'm correct, before Grass didn't effect anything with Ground-type moves. Oddish was part posion, so Dig would've been super-effective. Now it's not very effective against grass, so normal damage is dealt instead of 2x.

Yeah, that is correct. Poison was weak against Ground.

doesn't matter July 10th, 2007 7:29 PM

Examples please. Cause as Flavaquil has already mentioned, chances are there's a perfectly valid explanation as types and abilities were added.

However, as AngelicExcalibur already pointed out, the poison part of Oddish would have made it susceptible to ground type moves, but would have been balanced out by it's grass type.

Ayano Katagiri July 10th, 2007 7:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amachi (Post 2611513)
However, as AngelicExcalibur already pointed out, the poison part of Oddish would have made it susceptible to ground type moves, but would have been balanced out by it's grass type.

That technically should be true. I just tested this out on my Yellow version and found that yes, Dig is super effective against Oddish and Oddish is dual type Grass/Poison.

It could just be possible that Grass types were unaffected and dealt with normal damage by Ground type attacks back then.

Archer July 10th, 2007 8:13 PM

Yes, ground attacks were neutral on grass in RBY, but they are now not very effective.

Gunn July 10th, 2007 9:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by - Flavaquil -
It could just be possible that Grass types were unaffected and dealt with normal damage by Ground type attacks back then.

The whole "Ground-type effective against Grass-type" still doesn't make sense. In my Yellow version, I used my Dugtrio's Earthquake attack on a Parasect (Grass/Bug) and it still resulted as "Not very effective ... ." Same sort of applies to a Venusaur using Razor Leaf attack against a Gyarados; it turns out to be not very effective when it clearly should be neutral.

Quote:

Originally Posted by archer
Yes, ground attacks were neutral on grass in RBY, but they are now not very effective.

No, Ground-type moves still had a super effect on Grass-type Pokémon since most Grass-types were Poison-types as well in the Red/Blue and Yellow versions, following the logic in those games. But it should have been neutral effect in the first place. It's just really all screwed up.

Ayano Katagiri July 10th, 2007 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunn Yoshiaki (Post 2611784)
The whole "Ground-type effective against Grass-type" still doesn't make sense. In my Yellow version, I used my Dugtrio's Earthquake attack on a Parasect (Grass/Bug) and it still resulted as "Not very effective ... ." Same sort of applies to a Venusaur using Razor Leaf attack against a Gyarados; it turns out to be not very effective when it clearly should be neutral.

Ground was never super effective against Grass, it was the Poison part of those dual type Pokemon that caused it to be that way. For some reason, when Grass was combined with Poison type, it became super effective against them instead of cancelling each other out and having the normal effect. There's just something up with that which doesn't work out.

Gunn July 10th, 2007 11:22 PM

I know, that's what I'm still puzzled about.

Ayano Katagiri July 11th, 2007 2:41 AM

O.o Maybe there was a mistake in their programming back then.... it doesn't add up at all.

peabobo's sexy legs July 11th, 2007 5:08 AM

In RBY, if an attack did normal damage to a Pokemon because the two types cancel eachother out, it will still refer to the move as "super effective." Another example: Grass on Gyarados. It would do the same thing.

ShadowTails July 16th, 2007 11:59 AM

Here is what I was meaning to say... I used a ground move on Oddish in RYB it's super effective, now it's neutral effectiveness. I'm wondering why Grass/Poison is suddenly not effected as much by ground moves. I just wondered why they did that... it's about as crazy as changing Caterpie's mouth color.

fearow23 July 16th, 2007 12:39 PM

[QUOTE=Gunn Yoshiaki;2611784]The whole "Ground-type effective against Grass-type" still doesn't make sense. In my Yellow version, I used my Dugtrio's Earthquake attack on a Parasect (Grass/Bug) and it still resulted as "Not very effective ... ."

It maybe was not very effective because Bug is strong against ground attacks. Grass back then must have been neutral.

anemos July 16th, 2007 1:01 PM

yeah, there were many changes from red and blue, such as mewtwo not being invincible. =D

Gyoka July 16th, 2007 2:36 PM

There are many instances like this. In RBY Charizard was weak to Ice even though it should be neutral. The reason is in RBY they did not take both types in account for damage calculation, therefore some moves which should be neutral were only affected by one of the defending pokemon's attack. Due to this Oddish's Poison type was acknowledged by earthquake and not the grass type resulting in super effective damage. Same goes for Charizard. It's Flying type not it's Fire type was calculated when receiving damage from ice moves. Hope this helps explain your dilemma.

Guest123_x1 July 17th, 2007 4:54 PM

Oddish isn't the only one
 
The original RBY series had a lot of type advantage/disadvantage quirks. Although I dont' have the games anymore, I can recall atop of my head that an electric attack would be "not very effective" against a Dragonite when in reality it should do normal damage (1×) since it's part-Flying.

Just my 2¢

ShadowTails July 17th, 2007 6:58 PM

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4965/example3gy3.png
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6933/example1va4.pngBest way I can go about it, in RSE there isn't a "it's super effective!" but yeah, I don't really get it either... (Groudon was the only Pokemon that had a ground move in my save... so... yeah.)

I think I know what it is though... back then mixed types weren't perfected so they retained both weaknesses due to their types... that's the only way I can think of it...

anemos July 18th, 2007 2:55 AM

thats what i was saying, THANK YOU SO MUCH for providing pictures.

Dave-o-rama July 18th, 2007 11:05 AM

i dont know how ground would be super effective against grass... but then again, the first game i played through to the end was emerald.

Guest123_x1 July 18th, 2007 3:34 PM

I question the credibility
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowTails (Post 2637178)
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4965/example3gy3.png
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6933/example1va4.pngBest way I can go about it, in RSE there isn't a "it's super effective!" but yeah, I don't really get it either... (Groudon was the only Pokemon that had a ground move in my save... so... yeah.)

I think I know what it is though... back then mixed types weren't perfected so they retained both weaknesses due to their types... that's the only way I can think of it...

First of all, those screenshots would've been a bit more credible (especially the Advance Generation set) if the level gap wasn't so wide. A level 45 Groudon vs. L13 wild Oddish isn't saying much if nothing at all. Even if Groudon used a "not very effective" type attack, the Oddish would more than likely go down nonetheless.
The original RBY series quirk I highilghted in my previous post was merely a bug which was fixed starting with Gold&Silver&Crystal.
Since Earthquake is a Ground type attack and Oddish is part Poison, the move would be calculated to do "normal" damage, therefore it woudn't be "super-effective" nor "not very effective"

anemos July 18th, 2007 3:53 PM

yes, the point is that ther ws no efectivmess message, not that the fainting wouldnt happen.

ShadowTails July 18th, 2007 3:55 PM

well it's hard to show there isn't a "It's Super Effective." screen when it doesn't exsist.

umbros July 19th, 2007 7:23 AM

Oh, and just so everyone knows, in RBY there were a few differences in type allignments. For one, ice was neutral against fire for some weird reason, as opposed to being "not very effective". I tested this out a few seconds ago on a wild Growlithe. Also, poison and bug were both super effective against each other. As in, a Caterpie would be hurt more by Weedle's poison sting, and a Koffing would be hurt more by Zubat's leech life.


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