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Wall: Umbreon
Hello, I'd like your feedback on this guy.
Didn't really intend to make one, but seeing his stats (110 Def and 130 Sp.Def) I thought he could qualify as a wall. Is this viable? Umbreon @ Leftovers Ability: Synchronize Adamant Nature - Toxic - Mean Look - Confuse Ray / Moonlight - Dark Pulse / Moonlight EV: Def and Atk Having the enemy Badly Poisoned, Confused and Flinched looks neat. An option is to make use of Umbreon's Ability and make him hold a Toxic Orb, but I guess it's too dangerous. Flame Orb could work. Suggest your own variants of an Umbreon wall! Have a nice day. F |
Dark pulse is a special attack.
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[email protected]
Trait:Synchronize Impish Nature EVs:252 HP/152 DEF/104 SP.DEF Moves: -Wish -Mean Look -Toxic/Taunt -Baton Pass Toxic is more indicated but Taunt is also an opinion. |
Most people see a toxic trap umbreon coming, so they switch out to something with a fighting move or even worse, guts while you trap it. (Heracross)
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toxic umbreon is one of the very worst pokemon out there. i find it funny people still think they can get away with it.
and that base defense is nothing. you can give it impish/bold with max hp and max def ev's and a stab close combat can still almost OHKO it. |
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umbreon is ruined by fighting types because when it uses meanlook the opponent can switch to a fighting type, making mean look useless because you're going to have to switch out. umbreon isn't easy to bring in either because as a special wall, opponents may predict a blissey and use a fighting move on it. as a physical wall it's not going to get the job done because of all the high damage fighting moves around in 4th gen. there IS a way to use umbreon right, but Toxic is never an option. [email protected] impish/bold 252hp 200def 58spdef -wish/moon light -taunt/curse -mean look -baton pass with the ev's, it should survive a fighting move barring critical hit but you should still avoid being hit by them at all costs. taunt ruins a lot of pokemon and with mean look and baton pass you can pass them off to a teamate who happens to be the right counter for the finish. wish is good for self healing and healing teammates. |
that's the thing. you just shouldn't use mean look at all if you don't have a fighting resist on your team.
you said almost OHKO, btw, and that's not 3/4ths. almost KO is 4 hp left, not 100. this gen, you may as well just use umbreon for subpassing and taunt. |
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and yea, i almost laugh when i see umbreons in 4th gen due to its limited ability. |
Umbreon can pass Mean Looks. That's pretty good. But yes, it dies to Close Combat. Charm fixes that.
Umbreon @ Leftovers 252 HP/252 Def/4 Sdef -- Bold/Impish Charm Yawn Wish Protect Yawn and Charm screws things over, especially Heracross. The only Hera that gets past a Charm switch in is Adamant CB, and who the hell uses Adamant CB. Wish for healing and Protect for being annoying. If you're going to use Umbreon, please use it right. |
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Charm Umbreon is extremely vulnerable to Focus Punchers. |
Charm causes lowering ATK, while yawn is PseudoHazing. Those don't belong together.
Go with the standard Mean-Passing Umbreon |
Dark Pulse.. my bad. Thank you all for your imput.
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Assuming Umbreon is just used for trapping via Mean Look, I realized the question is how many times it gets hit.
Slower than opponent = 2 hits received before Baton Pass Faster than opponent = 1 hit received before Baton Pass Making it Jolly, and maxing Spd EV's, will 251 Spd be enough for surviving the average battle? Gotta hate it's speed... Thanks again. |
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That set SUCKS and that's obvious to everyone. Charm sucks especially since you don't have mean look and baton pass to go along with it. Your opponents can just switch out and your set doesn't even have any offensive options, so what are you trying to achieve with that set? "if you're going to use Umbreon, please use it right"?? such big words for someone who obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. |
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umbreon can take a lot of hits that's not a stab strong fighting move. |
you REALLY are better off not using umbreon. its disadvantages over whelm the advantages. i wouldnt consider him a wall... more possibly a sponge tho
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My god, have you people even used that Umbreon? Don't knock it till you try it. It's absolutely amazing. Yes, it pseudo-hazes, but that's just a perk. Charm and Yawn let things switch in and ruin setups. Wish heals. It supports, and it gets you free switch-ins. That's what it's meant to do. If you seriously think it sucks, go use it. It may not be as good as some other walls but it still works. Mean Look passing is good, but this is more fun, and you still get to set up with it. And don't double post.
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the point for me is if im gonna use an umbreon, i want to use an umbreon like a man. a stron pokemon liking, body building man. more attack than just annoying moves in general- just cause its one of my favs. but in competitive battling, it can be useful. another thing for me, is that my umbreon is shiny- so its of no use cause i cant egg move it... but htats just me. i do partially agree with shedinjask
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oh, and as far as i know, yawn doesn't go through subs. it would be amazing if it does but i doubt it. |
Charm and Yawn are meant to screw over switch-ins. What you do is bring it in on something that can't hurt it, then ruin their counter, Wish maybe, then switch. Protect/Wish can heal you just fine, if something takes a Charm it's not going to 2HKO you. Adamant CB Heracross Megahorn/CC is the only thing that does that after Charm, and like I said, nobody uses Adamant CB Heracross. Charm also prevents physical attackers from setting up. Even special attackers have trouble damaging it despite the lack of EVs, and nobody brings a special attacker in on Umbreon anyways. Excellent for fragile things to get in. Better at walling than you would believe. Maybe you would like an attacking move on it, but I don't. Yes Taunt screws it over, but Taunt is predictable, and if I see Gyarados then I switch to Thunderbolt Gengar, who is probably being healed by Wish on the switch. You can't just judge a Pokemon by itself. It's part of a team. And for the last time, Yawn is for pseudo-hazing, it can Protect to ensure safety. They're supposed to switch, that's the point, so please stop mentioning it. And it does go through subs in D/P. I don't care how much you think you know about this, spectulation is no substitute for actual experience, which I have had a lot of with this Umbreon. It works, believe me. No I am not battling idiots. The whole point of this set is to get something set up. If Porygon-Z or Azelf or DDGyara has a free switch in to something that will switch out, healed by Wish the same turn, it wins. And if Umbreon helps it, then it has done its job well.
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nothing is scared of umbreon. nothing. charm won't even work on metagross who has clear body and doesn't get past subsitute, and special sweepers dont care about charm. a choice spec alakazam knocks it out with focus blast. a pikachu would even like to use encore after you use charm and set up nasty plot to sweep your entire team. your set fails on so many level it's not even funny, and I can't believe I even need to explain WHY it fails. It's quite pointless because no matter how you insist otherwise, your set would only work against idiots. and are you seriously sure about yawn getting past substitute? i seriously doubt it because i use yawn and if it can get past substitute, I would know. I remember using it on quicker pokemon who avoided it by subsituting up, so you're not only a pretender but a liar as well. |
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Megahorn has the same BP as Close Combat, and it's also SE. So Hera might use it if he didn't want the defense down, or he is trying to predict. Yawn works on Metagross, who can't really do much to Umbreon. Meteor Mash is at best a 3HKO, with Choice Band and I can scout for Hammer Arm, which is a 2HKO with CB. If Pika is Yawned, then it's screwed, and if Charm gets it, my team can take a Pikachu. I'd probably switch out at the first sign of it anyways. Yes, Zam can get it with Focus Blast, but it only has 70% acc. and I'd just switch to Gengar if it was CSpecs. If it isn't, then the rest of my team can get it. I can revenge kill it if I have to. A loss to one Pokemon does not mean something is bad. And just so you know, Focus Blast is never a OHKO from Zam on Umbreon. I can Yawn it and heal later if I absolutely have to. Nothing is scared of Umbreon because people like you are preaching bull**** about it, but after I try it with people they think twice about what to send in on it.
Don't ****ing call me a liar. It gets past subs, I know it does, it was changed for D/P. Do some research before you insult me. And while I'm pretty sure I've battled some idiots with this, I've battled some experts too. Yes, it does lose. Yes, it's not perfect. No, it does not suck and I'm not going to listen to you say it does unless you've used it and used it well and failed miserably with it over the course of many battles. |
Okay, so Jolly is not an option, as I thought.
Thanks for the tips again. And guys, take it easy. Really. Naos: I use him for the same reason I use Vileplume over a much better Special Sweeper and Steelix over a much better Physical Wall. Some setups are really over-regurgitated. They won't take me to the top, but I enjoy them :P |
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