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Old January 3rd, 2013 (8:26 PM). Edited January 3rd, 2013 by Sir Codin.
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Sir Codin Sir Codin is offline
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Well said Rococo.

I'm also going to repost this because I'm under the impression people didn't watch it the last time I did:

Here are the FBI charts he used:

Also here's some state data:

Looks like it varies highly from state to state despite gun laws. California's gun laws are pretty strict, yet it has a higher murder rate than Utah and Texas, which from what I understand have laxer gun laws. Though, I will admit, Texas ain't far behind California. And District of Columbia have some of the (if not THE) most strict gun laws, but sweet Christmas, look at that murder rate! However, some states with lax gun laws also have pretty damn high murder rates as well. Keep in mind, this is RATE PER 100,000, not amount. Also keep in mind these also include murders with other weapons, not just guns, but firearms are the main tool of use.

I know it's data from 2011, but that's the most recent they have. I don't know how long it'll take the FBI to round up data for 2012.

Yet, despite all of this, the data is showing that the overall national violent crime and murder rate in the United States has declined significantly over the past 20 years, despite the increased population, the expiration of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban in 2004, and other things. Yes, we do have higher firearm crime rate than quite a few other countries, especially European countries, but it seems people are failing to realize (or at least acknowledge) that the overall murder and violent crime rate in the US is dropping.

I'm not entirely convinced that availability of guns causes crime, nor do I agree with outright banning them (some increased control, perhaps), but I won't deny that they make it easier to kill more people. But the sad and honest truth is that, increased difficulty or not, violent individuals will find a way if they are desperate enough, even with means other than guns. Humanity has always been like that, as much as that sucks.

And with that, I might possibly be done with this thread. I had an entire rant written and saved, but I'm just going to withhold it because I feel like I'd just be preaching to a brick wall at this point.
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