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Old February 3rd, 2013 (8:43 PM).
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Bela Bela is offline
Pokémon Rose Creator
  • Silver Tier
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United States
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Nature: Modest
Posts: 332

I feel like I need to respond to this.

Originally Posted by miksy91 View Post
Hopefully this thread doesn't get spam in it and I sure don't want to be the one "awoking" that but I just wanted to say that I'd like to see machomuu being the one to take over the storyline and events planning.

I have nothing against Bela, at all. And I haven't even played Rose to see for myself how good the storyline and planning really is in it;

Originally Posted by Bela
If I do say so myself, a well-written storyline is to be found in this game! There are eight gyms and the Elite Four to beat, just like a classic Pokemon game, yet there are plot twists around every corner! A special post-E4 challenge is available, too!

But just look at what machomuu would offer the hack;

Originally Posted by machomuu
Writing speech for characters, giving people backgrounds, and making stories with coherent and airtight plots has always been something I've really enjoyed.

This thing here pretty much covers everything a hack should be like (well, expect for epic plot twist) ! Every storyline-related NPC should bring something to the game itself. They can't be just random people, they must have their own personality, like every human do. Think about the "bad guys" for instance; they can't be just "evil and so wanting to take over the world". If the bad guys really want to do that, they must gain something out of it! Like search for a certain artifact... pretty much everything you can imagine they could be doing which actually makes sense!

And if you want to pull off something even better, they can turn good people out all of a sudden. If the leader behind the evil organization leaves or is defeated, what makes his minions continue their mission anymore? Loyalty? Might work somewhere but if you think about them as their own persons, not a single one of them is actually interested in taking over the world. If they get no money out of the deal after the leader went, why would the continue?

All in all, storyline and planning is the game. Besides, the hack shouldn't be rushed getting started right away after forming the team. A well-planned storyline along with plot twists and the areas they occur should be planned out first. Of course everything can be changed later on but stuff gets way easier if done properly right from the start.

It's curious how you make this comparative analysis but admit that it has incomplete information. Why not create a better informed analysis? Unless, of course, your objective is something else. I guess while we're lifting things from my thread, and not a single somewhat jokingly written line, here's the introduction to the story you can find in my thread:

The Centiq (/sĕn-tēk/) region is a place rich in history. Understanding that history is important for understanding its future. Your journey as a young trainer will take you from the depths of dungeons to the tips of mountains, from the happiest of places, to the dark hideouts of evil. Enjoy the experience of exploring new routes, cities, and caves in Pokémon Rose Version!

A year has passed since a young Pokémon trainer from Kanto defeated Team Rocket and became Kanto's Pokémon League Champion; likewise in the Hoenn region, a young trainer there put an end to Team Aqua and Team Magma's plans and defeated Hoenn's Pokémon League Champion.

Why have Teams Rocket, Aqua, and Magma shown up in the Centiq region? What is the organization known as Thrasher and what is their goal? Could it have something to do with The Emerald Tablet, a mythical artifact believed to be hidden within the Centiq region? The answers to these questions and more await you!

And here's a summary of the beginning story I wrote:

The Centiq region is a region rich in history and complex affairs. Plagued by various evils, a great Creator was once said to have bestowed upon Hermes Trismegistus an artifact known as the Emerald Tablet, said to contain both sacred knowledge of the world and a great power. This legendary tablet has been sought by many over the course of Centiq’s history, but it has never been found...

Aster is a 15 year old boy living in Springate Town, a small quiet village on the southern seashore of Centiq. Professor Larch has returned from a trip far away, where he spoke with one of his colleagues. He has brought back some special Pokemon and might just give one of those to you! Aster leaves his house after talking to Mom and heads for Professor Larch’s laboratory.

But before he gets far, Aster sees a strange man speaking with the professor outside! Hurrying over, Aster sees a tall, blue haired man in a black cloak. What does he want with the Professor?

“Tell me everything you know regarding The Emerald Tablet!” the man shouts. Clearly he is not a friendly person! Running to the Professor’s aid, Aster is given three Pokemon by Larch in order to fight the mysterious hostile man. Defeating his Shelgon, Pupitar, and Metang, Aster succeeds in protecting the professor from further harm. Seemingly indifferent to his loss, the strange man simply states, “We shall meet again, Professor Larch,” before taking his leave. As he does so, a large blue cross is seen on the back of his cloak. Who was this strange person?

The Professor thanks Aster and offers him one of the Pokemon he received from his colleague while traveling abroad. Aster’s long-time childhood friend, Allen, had been waiting inside the Lab during the ordeal outside. The two have their first Pokemon battle, now that they both have their very first Pokemon. Allen and Aster decide to compete to see who can get to the Pokemon League first, with Allen taking the lead.

Will you make it to the Pokemon League before Allen, Aster?

After running an errand for Professor Larch, Aster arrives at his first new destination: Elderoak Town! This small forest village has a large retirement community, as well as a school taught by the town’s elder, simply known as “Granny” to everyone. Unaware of Granny’s temperament, Aster casually walks inside to find out more about Pokemon, taking a seat at an empty chair in the schoolroom.

“Is everybody here? Well then, let’s get started!” declares Granny. Aster, realizing a mistake has been made, tries to sneak out of the classroom before he’s noticed. He doesn’t know about Granny’s adept hearing, sounding the pitter-patter of feet.

“Stay in your seat!” the little old lady exclaims at Aster, who in a shock immediately complies. He has been mistaken for one of her students! Granny begins to play a video for the students, designed to teach them how to catch Pokemon. Aster, having already known long ago how to do this and has seen Professor Larch do it many times, tries to take advantage of the situation and leave once more.

“You again!” Granny bellows. This time she begins to walk over to you! “Do you think you know it all?” she asks inquisitively. “How about I give you a test in a Pokemon battle?” Quickly, the teacher sends out a Spearow with a menacing look, certainly used to giving that look as if it were to intimidate small misbehaving children.

But Aster has his own Pokemon, too! Sending out the Pokemon you received from Professor Larch, you quickly dispense of the sparrow Pokemon, apparently only good at using its Leer attack to frighten Pokemon and students alike. Granny comes to the realization that you are not, in fact, one of her students. Just then, the teacher’s son, a grown man himself, walks in with a small boy under his arm. Evidently this was the missing student whose chair you had sat in.

“I saw a big yellow Pokemon run past here!” the boy shouted. Clearly he was troubled by something he saw outside. It could have been the reason he skipped class. What was this big, yellow Pokemon he spoke of? What kind of big, yellow Pokemon are capable of running around in the Centiq region? Could it have been the crystal beast...Raikou?

Thinking nothing of it now, Aster continues on his journey so he can face his first gym battle in Bloomful City. To get there, however, Aster must travel across a field full of grass Pokemon. This shouldn’t be much of a problem, since Aster’s Pokemon is much stronger than most of the grass Pokemon around.

After battling a few trainers on his way to the next town, Aster is soon approaching the end of the grassy field. With only a little way left to go, and the buildings of Bloomful near on the horizon, Aster is swiftly met with a shocking site.

“Finally we have caught up with you, Raikou,” stated a man dressed all in black, with a large red “R” on the front of his outfit. Two more men in a similar outfit are standing next to a big, yellow Pokemon that has become immobilized by traps that have been dug into the ground. “It appears the snares we set have done their job!” The crystal beast growled in anguish. “You will now become a prize for Team Rocket!” shouted the man, throwing a purple and pink Pokeball at the legendary creature. The Pokemon is instantly caught without any resistance. Was that a Master Ball that they just used? One of the two men who were standing next to the legendary Pokemon retrieves the Pokeball and stores it away. “Our client will be pleased that everything has taken place without incident,” the man who threw the Pokeball muses.

Aster approaches the three men, who have recognized that they are being watched. “Hey, you there kid! You didn’t see anything, did you? Well, I’ll have to take care of that!” the man who threw the Pokeball shouts. Sending out a Zubat, the Team Rocket grunt is poised to take you on, while his fellow grunts have escaped. Aster sends out his Pokemon and defeats the flying bat Pokemon! The Rocket grunt is distraught that a mere child could be capable of beating him. “You better stay out of our business!” he shouts at Aster. “And our client’s as well!” Who would Team Rocket’s client be?

Unbeknownst to Aster, and indeed much of the Centiq region, a mysterious organization named Thrasher is secretly working to collect many powerful legendary Pokemon, as well as be the first to have ever found the legendary Emerald Tablet. But for what purpose? Who is their Leader? Could it be the strange man in blue, who demanded that the good professor tell him about the Tablet? Their goals, their influence, their leadership, their very existence… all things about Thrasher are shrouded in secrecy.

My interests in crafting a story starts with building a world for the plot to take place in. As such, when I first started work on Rose, I had ideas for both a region and for events in the story I wanted to have play out. This was fleshed out with a design for the region the story takes place in, and building scenarios which take place there. Here's the map for my region to give you a sense of how much thought I've put into this:


There's a lot I could tell you about this region. I spent a lot of time developing a story before I ever started working on the rom hack. You've ignored everything I've posted above in pursuit of something to misrepresent my work. Now why would you do that?

Originally Posted by miksy in the Second Hack of the Quarter - 2012 thread
And I just realized something neat related to the main post. What we actually are voting for isn't defined anywhere. It's just "Hack of the Quarter" competition. What does a hack being "Hack of the Quarter" mean? Is it the hack with the most entertaining gameplay? The best storyline, or something else? For now, it's pretty much the one most popular and graphically appealing.

For the following competitions, I'd recommend making it clearer what you're actually voting for. Also if you take a look at the screenshots of the main post, they're already leading people to vote for Rose! Some of the voters may not play any of the games yet they still vote in the competition. The screenshots taken of Rose Version greatly divide it from the rest, and nicest graphical work is the case here as well.

What could be done is to not show screenshots of any of the eligible hacks to vote for, or possibly show a little bit but try to place them at the "same level" from the start. That way, the voters would actually have to think for a little while instead of just pushing the "vote for this hack" button there and submit their opinion. This would also lead into the actual players have a bigger meaning in the competition, good implementation beats nice graphics anytime, anywhere.

What I particularly like about this quote here is it shows the hypocrisy with what you're doing. You suggested we should let people evaluate those hacks on their own, because you felt some were being unfairly represented. I think it can be agreed here that you're doing exactly that now.

And so your bias is made clear. I wouldn't have gone out of my way to write all this if I didn't feel like what you're doing is intentional. Your suggestion that I lack background when you've clearly read my thread is incredibly dishonest. Don't misrepresent my work to pursue some agenda of yours. If anything, I think you've hurt your objective with this.

If you want to talk about what direction the story should go, that's a conversation I would love to have when everyone interested in developing the story gets together.

Originally Posted by machomuu
There are a plethora of ways to include the story into gameplay, such as sidequests, minor characters, books and objects, and other non-main quest facets. The story does not strictly have to be "what you have to do to move on", there are non-intrusive ways of including the story in otherwise trivial and non-mandatory elements.
I agree that newspapers and written notes are a really effective way to give more story-related details to the player. It's easy to tuck away these extra details in places. I think it's nice to reward those players who do extra exploring and go off the beaten path though, and that could make for some nice side quests.

I look forward to working with you machomuu and everyone else on this project.

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